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Post by Deleted on Aug 26, 2015 11:08:47 GMT
Should have gave a better reply last night , on live TV, not a great comment to make. must admit i wasn't thrilled with the way he spoke about it last night. should have just ignored the question or said "Let's wait and see what happens" and moved on. no need to say anymore, club business is club business and no need to air any laundry on a television interview.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Aug 26, 2015 11:09:32 GMT
He's just seen Crouch get two years to take him to 36 and although slightly different, Adam, someone who has not started anywhere near as many games as Walters get 4 years to take him to 33. I can see why he's aggrieved the club haven't been able to meet him somewhere in the middle yet. Both are Pulisesqe contract extensions. Ridiculous!
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Post by sheikhmomo on Aug 26, 2015 11:15:31 GMT
He's just seen Crouch get two years to take him to 36 and although slightly different, Adam, someone who has not started anywhere near as many games as Walters get 4 years to take him to 33. I can see why he's aggrieved the club haven't been able to meet him somewhere in the middle yet. the Adam thing is irrelevant really as Walters will be almost 33 when his current one expires as it is. the Crouch one is different as well. you have to take into account what they can offer the side at the age they will be when it expires, Crouch's game isn't based on mobility so his age and slowing pace won't effect his game. Walters is almost 100% based on graft and plenty and plenty of running all over the pitch and its unlikely he can offer that for the first team by the time he reaches 35. you (and by you i mean Walters) can't just judge it on age and completely ignore the other factors i.e. different things that a particular player offers to the team and whether they will have the same limitations at the age they reach. if that's what he's basing it on then he could ask for one to keep him until he's 39 like Shay Given. different players and offer different things to the team and what Jon offers WILL be effected and go steadily downhill as he gets older. Haven't said the club are wrong in their stance at all, it's difficult to say without knowing exactly what's gone down but I'm sure Walters looks around the dressing room at players getting fixed up who don't have anywhere near the game time and influence he does and feels a bit aggrieved to the point of being raw, which he clearly was last night. I suppose as an ardent Tory he'll just have to get on his Ducati Superleggera and look for work, if we're not playing ball.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Aug 26, 2015 11:18:06 GMT
I'd stick Cameron in there too and Odemewingie.
I don't think any of them should have been extended ditto Walters.
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Post by nicholasjalcock on Aug 26, 2015 11:19:37 GMT
the Adam thing is irrelevant really as Walters will be almost 33 when his current one expires as it is. the Crouch one is different as well. you have to take into account what they can offer the side at the age they will be when it expires, Crouch's game isn't based on mobility so his age and slowing pace won't effect his game. Walters is almost 100% based on graft and plenty and plenty of running all over the pitch and its unlikely he can offer that for the first team by the time he reaches 35. you (and by you i mean Walters) can't just judge it on age and completely ignore the other factors i.e. different things that a particular player offers to the team and whether they will have the same limitations at the age they reach. if that's what he's basing it on then he could ask for one to keep him until he's 39 like Shay Given. different players and offer different things to the team and what Jon offers WILL be effected and go steadily downhill as he gets older. Haven't said the club are wrong in their stance at all, it's difficult to say without knowing exactly what's gone down but I'm sure Walters looks around the dressing room at players getting fixed up who don't have anywhere near the game time and influence he does and feels a bit aggrieved to the point of being raw, which he clearly was last night. I suppose as an ardent Tory he'll just have to get on his Ducati Superleggera and look for work, if we're not playing ball. Isn't it odd how all these scousers are ardent socialists until they make some money e.g. Cilla, JW and then strangely metamorphose into Tories.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 26, 2015 11:21:01 GMT
Cameron has got better with age . There's no way I'd get rid of him . He is a top quality utility man . I think Odemwingie is better than Walters too.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 26, 2015 11:21:10 GMT
the Adam thing is irrelevant really as Walters will be almost 33 when his current one expires as it is. the Crouch one is different as well. you have to take into account what they can offer the side at the age they will be when it expires, Crouch's game isn't based on mobility so his age and slowing pace won't effect his game. Walters is almost 100% based on graft and plenty and plenty of running all over the pitch and its unlikely he can offer that for the first team by the time he reaches 35. you (and by you i mean Walters) can't just judge it on age and completely ignore the other factors i.e. different things that a particular player offers to the team and whether they will have the same limitations at the age they reach. if that's what he's basing it on then he could ask for one to keep him until he's 39 like Shay Given. different players and offer different things to the team and what Jon offers WILL be effected and go steadily downhill as he gets older. Haven't said the club are wrong in their stance at all, it's difficult to say without knowing exactly what's gone down but I'm sure Walters looks around the dressing room at players getting fixed up who don't have anywhere near the game time and influence he does and feels a bit aggrieved to the point of being raw, which he clearly was last night. I suppose as an ardent Tory he'll just have to get on his Ducati Superleggera and look for work, if we're not playing ball. yeah i see what you're saying and it would irk him but, like i say, he has to look at it realistically and take all factors into account really i.e. does Crouch's age effect what he offers? no not really....will my age effect what i offer? most definitely. it'd be nice to be able to give him what he wants just as a thank you for time served etc. but it just doesn't work like that and he has to be realistic and accept that fact. i agree with what he said about probably being in the top 2 for every important stat over the last year or two but the major thing he's forgetting is that when you're offered a contract they're not looking at what you did LAST year, they're looking at what you'll still be able to do in the final year of that contract and that's how they'll determine how long to keep hold him for within that contract. will be very sad to see him go as i've always loved SJW but if we want to continue to progress and push on then it's just the way footy works nowadays i.e. no sentiment
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Post by Deleted on Aug 26, 2015 11:22:37 GMT
He's just seen Crouch get two years to take him to 36 and although slightly different, Adam, someone who has not started anywhere near as many games as Walters get 4 years to take him to 33. I can see why he's aggrieved the club haven't been able to meet him somewhere in the middle yet. Both are Pulisesqe contract extensions. Ridiculous! not really. what Crouch offers to the team won't be effected by his age as he doesn't move much anyway. add to that the fact that due to that he could get a move to a lower league club a year earlier to finish off his career so we could still get a small resale value on him. Adam's extension will take him to the age SJW will more or less be when his current contract expires so that's nothing special or OTT. if we give SJW an extension to take him to 35, then 1) can we sell him at the age of 34 or so when he's starting to slow and has less mobility (Given the fact that his entire game is based on his mobility and running) and therefore get ANY resale? or 2) can we expect him to be playing regularly in our first team when we have the likes of Shaqiri on the right and people already taking up the forward positions? it's sad to say as he's been a loyal and very hard working servant to the club for years but he's not going to get regular gametime beyond this season (and may well not this season) if we continue to progress so why would we keep him on and have a 35 year old benchwarmer taking up a wage and a squad place in 2017-2018 season? what realistically do you think he could offer us by then that would benefit the side?
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Post by bayernoatcake on Aug 26, 2015 11:23:16 GMT
Cameron has got better with age . There's no way I'd get rid of him . He is a top quality utility man . I think Odemwingie is better than Walters too. Wilson offer more in more positions and is younger. We only need one of them. Agreed re Wingie but again we can only really have one. And with his age and injuries, Wingie had to be released this summer for me.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Aug 26, 2015 11:24:35 GMT
Both are Pulisesqe contract extensions. Ridiculous! not really. what Crouch offers to the team won't be effected by his age as he doesn't move much anyway. add to that the fact that due to that he could get a move to a lower league club a year earlier to finish off his career so we could still get a small resale value on him. Adam's extension will take him to the age SJW will more or less be when his current contract expires so that's nothing special or OTT. if we give SJW an extension to take him to 35, then 1) can we sell him at the age of 34 or so when he's starting to slow and has less mobility (Given the fact that his entire game is based on his mobility and running) and therefore get ANY resale? or 2) can we expect him to be playing regularly in our first team when we have the likes of Shaqiri on the right and people already taking up the forward positions? it's sad to say as he's been a loyal and very hard working servant to the club for years but he's not going to get regular gametime beyond this season (and may well not this season) if we continue to progress so why would we keep him on and have a 35 year old benchwarmer taking up a wage and a squad place in 2017-2018 season? what realistically do you think he could offer us by then that would benefit the side? We don't need Crouch. We barely need Adam and the manager is clearly very indifferent on him. To give him the deal we did was madness. I agree re Walters.
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Post by foster on Aug 26, 2015 11:27:28 GMT
Jons going to get phased out of the team over this season (Shaq) and if he stays, even more next season as we'll likely get someone younger as backup to Shaq. In the 3rd season (what he wants) I doubt he'd even even get on the bench. In terms of strikers he's behind Diouf and Joselu and isn't prolific enough anyway imo. If Joselu doesn't cut the mustard then I expect we'll sign a new striker next summer too.
I think a year extension is more than enough. If he proves himself next season then he could ask for an extension. He could even add an automatic renewal clause activated by a predefined number of appearances.
Odem got a year which is fair enough as he was unlucky with his injury and played alright prior to that. Whether he would come good or not was a risk worth taking. If he does little this year he'll be gone. Crouch doesn't necessarily need super levels of fitness or pace to do his job so he's fine and will be gone at the end of his contract too. He also seems content to play a bit part.
With the squad getting bigger, quality improving, demand increasing and places limited, I don't think JW is in a position to ask for more than we've offered.
In fact, I'll go so far as to say that I think he's taking the piss asking (or demanding) that of the club at his age and after all we've done for him.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 26, 2015 11:28:08 GMT
not really. what Crouch offers to the team won't be effected by his age as he doesn't move much anyway. add to that the fact that due to that he could get a move to a lower league club a year earlier to finish off his career so we could still get a small resale value on him. Adam's extension will take him to the age SJW will more or less be when his current contract expires so that's nothing special or OTT. if we give SJW an extension to take him to 35, then 1) can we sell him at the age of 34 or so when he's starting to slow and has less mobility (Given the fact that his entire game is based on his mobility and running) and therefore get ANY resale? or 2) can we expect him to be playing regularly in our first team when we have the likes of Shaqiri on the right and people already taking up the forward positions? it's sad to say as he's been a loyal and very hard working servant to the club for years but he's not going to get regular gametime beyond this season (and may well not this season) if we continue to progress so why would we keep him on and have a 35 year old benchwarmer taking up a wage and a squad place in 2017-2018 season? what realistically do you think he could offer us by then that would benefit the side? We don't need Crouch. We barely need Adam and the manager is clearly very indifferent on him. To give him the deal we did was madness. I agree re Walters. must admit i was confused with the Crouch thing after we brought in Joselu (thought we'd try to offload him somewhere) but i disagree with the Adam thing..at the moment we need someone who's willing to grab the game by the throat (probably literally with Charlie ) and at least try to go forwards instead of this crab-like system we currently have.....pass sideways, sideways, sideways again then back to the keeper. Charlie's very useful in games where our midfield aren't dictating any tempo or being positive enough. he'll always give 100% (which spurs on the other players to follow suit) and will always look to get the ball forward. given the way our midfield has been so far, i wouldn't be at all surprised to see plenty of Adam this year.
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Post by rognix on Aug 26, 2015 11:40:04 GMT
Joselu should have started last night in place of Crouch, and Adam should have featured, in my view, instead of Sidwell. As for Walters, he scored, I will give him that , but no player is bigger than the club, he seems to think he's better than he really is. Don't get me wrong he's been an excellent servant and has been fundemental in the rise of the club , but a two year contract for a 32 year old is not out of order in my view. To be talking about lawyers and the like is , in my view , not appropriate.
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Post by steakandchips on Aug 26, 2015 11:41:17 GMT
Should have gave a better reply last night , on live TV, not a great comment to make. must admit i wasn't thrilled with the way he spoke about it last night. should have just ignored the question or said "Let's wait and see what happens" and moved on. no need to say anymore, club business is club business and no need to air any laundry on a television interview. Wel he couldn't exactly of said 'Hi Tony, remember me? I'm available and looking for a new home. Lots of love Jon' could he.....
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Post by bayernoatcake on Aug 26, 2015 11:44:28 GMT
We don't need Crouch. We barely need Adam and the manager is clearly very indifferent on him. To give him the deal we did was madness. I agree re Walters. must admit i was confused with the Crouch thing after we brought in Joselu (thought we'd try to offload him somewhere) but i disagree with the Adam thing..at the moment we need someone who's willing to grab the game by the throat (probably literally with Charlie ) and at least try to go forwards instead of this crab-like system we currently have.....pass sideways, sideways, sideways again then back to the keeper. Charlie's very useful in games where our midfield aren't dictating any tempo or being positive enough. he'll always give 100% (which spurs on the other players to follow suit) and will always look to get the ball forward. given the way our midfield has been so far, i wouldn't be at all surprised to see plenty of Adam this year. I agree re Charlie we do need someone like that but he was contracted for another year and he's behind Ireland Bojan and now seemingly Afellay too, it just seemed unnecessary to extend it when over the course of a season he is a bit part player.
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Post by andylgr on Aug 26, 2015 11:49:31 GMT
I'm really looking forward to seeing a more attacking front 4 with Shaqiri, Bojan , an in form Arnie and whoever plays up top. But equally I think we need to resolve the problems we've got in centre mid before we start to play with those 4 as I feel we're a bit too open there. Someone mentioned earlier about having a core of British players and in essence not losing that never say die attitude we've had since we got back in the Prem. I hope that spirit doesn't start to dissipate with all these foreigners coming in. Cameron has got better with age . There's no way I'd get rid of him . He is a top quality utility man . I think Odemwingie is better than Walters too. Agreed on Cameron. But I think Odemwingie has now lost that pace after his injury, which was his big asset and he doesn't IMO have the industry or physicality that Walters has in his game. So I'd take SJW over him.
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Post by werrington on Aug 26, 2015 11:51:37 GMT
Things turned nasty with Ipswich when he wanted to move to Stoke
History repeating and all that ?
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Post by Deleted on Aug 26, 2015 12:09:47 GMT
I would let Walters leave if someone offered £2mill + or just let his contract run down if he won't sign the one we have offered. We already have a 26 man squad (1 too many) and still have a domestic loan available. The club needs to make business decisions as well as sporting ones and some of the contracts awarded the last 6 months or so have been made with the heart and not the head.
If Crouch, Odemwingie, Bardsley, Tex all left the club today none of them would be missed. Crouch is now 3rd choice for 1 position, Odemwingie just blocks a player from the U21 squad from getting first team exp, Bardsley is just Bardsley and no idea what Tex is. I don't see the point in significant investment in the U21's if there is no route for them to the 1st team squad.
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Post by sharonbeech21 on Aug 26, 2015 15:02:48 GMT
I like Jon Walters and would love him to sign again but if he isn't going to we may as well cash in on him because if we don't he will walk away for nothing in the end anyway Walters for Red mond would be a good bit of business
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Post by bayernoatcake on Aug 26, 2015 15:35:28 GMT
Things turned nasty with Ipswich when he wanted to move to Stoke History repeating and all that ? But he's a good lad!
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Post by Deleted on Aug 26, 2015 15:43:43 GMT
Things turned nasty with Ipswich when he wanted to move to Stoke History repeating and all that ? Yeah but Roy is a mentalist.
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Post by tuum on Aug 26, 2015 16:44:46 GMT
His point about the stats may well be a valid one but his statement that SCFC do not appear to value him (or his contribution presumably) is the key issue. If he is correct and the club don't rate him as highly as he rates himself then the mature thing to do would be to accept the reality of the situation and sign the deal or leave. Sulking or blaming the club because they have different values to Jon is just bollocks really. Whinging about the situation,however quietly,is not going to change the clubs mind. Performances on the pitch over the whole of this season may be the best negotiating tool that Jon has available to him.
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Post by FullerMagic on Aug 26, 2015 22:21:19 GMT
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Post by Paul Spencer on Aug 27, 2015 0:37:04 GMT
Listening to that, you can't imagine how it would be beneficial for either party for him to remain here to see out the remainder of his contract.
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Post by blakngreen on Aug 27, 2015 5:43:24 GMT
Listening to that, you can't imagine how it would be beneficial for either party for him to remain here to see out the remainder of his contract. That interview is very telling, just for the length of pause before very short answers. Sounds quite aggrieved and upset to be honest.
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Post by rawli on Aug 27, 2015 6:16:40 GMT
He does sound in a very black mood.
If he let's his contract run down he should get a big signing on fee for a club next year. Think he should shut up moaning and start earning his wage.
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Post by Lakeland Potter on Aug 27, 2015 6:19:34 GMT
I'd stick Cameron in there too and Odemewingie. I don't think any of them should have been extended ditto Walters. Wingie has only been given a firm contract for the coming year. There is an option to extend if certain targets are met - although we don't know what those targets/thresholds are. Jon wants an extension to his contract which would then run for three seasons - which is not sensible for a club of our resources to offer to a player of his age. Most middle ranking clubs only offer one year extensions to players of Jon's age. If things work out well, then a club might keep offering one year extensions will into the a player's late 30s. But the important thing is to offer one year at a time and make a decision each year as to whether a further extension is warranted. As a Tory Jon should understand how any job market works best from the employer's point of view.
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Post by st4scfc on Aug 27, 2015 6:53:21 GMT
Walters 110% every single game, treated like shite now we have a swiss guy that once played for bayern munich.
I'm with you jon you deserve the contract others are getting for what you have done. I'd be a bit pissed myself
Loves the club, will roll sleeves up and dig in whenever needed. It'll be interesting to see if any of these supa dupa big wage & higher profile playerscare prepared to do it or have we signed mercenaries ala qpr. One thing is for sure walters is not a mercenary and earns his wage every time he sets foot on the pitch.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 27, 2015 6:56:34 GMT
Walters 110% every single game, treated like shite now we have a swiss guy that once played for bayern munich. I'm with you jon you deserve the contract others are getting for what you have done. I'd be a bit pissed myself How is he being treated like shite? Not giving him a contract until he's 35 is being treated like shite? I dont think so. Jon has done ok for us with a few purple patches thrown in for good measure. Whingeing like a girl in public does him no favors at all.
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Post by jeycov on Aug 27, 2015 7:10:45 GMT
We don't know all of the details but he gave 110% on Tuesday not many unhappy / unsettled players would do that. Hopefully a compromise can be reached ,
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