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Post by MarkWolstanton on Aug 5, 2015 11:09:13 GMT
You seem to trust Higgy on the matter quickly enough on this issue. Something to do with his view corresponding with yours which happens to defy all factual evidence to be fair. What are these known issues that you have vaguely referred to? How about the long term injury problems our captain was having for one, the others have been well documented on here. Hughes knew Shawcross' back would flare up when he agreed to let the long term injured Huth go to Leicester? You have restored my faith in your opinion of the manager. You clearly think he has some sort of crystal ball. As for the other issues you refer to rather regally as documented I assume you mean other like minded posters who like you want to rubbish defenders who outperformed anything that has gone before?
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Post by crapslinger on Aug 5, 2015 11:11:46 GMT
How about the long term injury problems our captain was having for one, the others have been well documented on here. Hughes knew Shawcross' back would flare up when he agreed to let the long term injured Huth go to Leicester? You have restored my faith in your opinion of the manager. You clearly think he has some sort of crystal ball. As for the other issues you refer to rather regally as documented I assume you mean other like minded posters who like you want to rubbish defenders who outperformed anything that has gone before? So he did not realise that Ryan was injured after he let Huth go out on loan, obviously not as he then sold Huth who had remained fully fit for the last four months of last season, not rocket science is it.
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Post by silverdollar on Aug 5, 2015 11:12:01 GMT
Some of you need to move on. Hughes has uprooted the club, the players and it's the defensive policy and is driving the club forward. Look at the stats. For me this thread has been debated to death. Huth was a hero but so was Cranson and Shataniuk. Let it rest! Pace is the name of the game nowadays and Huth wasn't the fastest. Of course I am concerned about the present situation but I have no doubt that it will be sorted.
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Post by Pugsley on Aug 5, 2015 11:13:25 GMT
Why are you doubting our current managers' ability to replace players brought by the previous manager? We're getting to crux of the matter now. We could well be did you not rate Tony Pulis then My views on Pulis are well known. Did a good job, could of done better with the money spent.
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Post by JoeinOz on Aug 5, 2015 11:14:48 GMT
We should never have sold Stewart Jump
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Post by crapslinger on Aug 5, 2015 11:17:49 GMT
Some of you need to move on. Hughes has uprooted the club, the players and it's the defensive policy and is driving the club forward. Look at the stats. For me this thread has been debated to death. Huth was a hero but so was Cranson and Shataniuk. Let it rest! Pace is the name of the game nowadays and Huth wasn't the fastest. Of course I am concerned about the present situation but I have no doubt that it will be sorted. You are correct pace is the name of the game, why have we then signed a defender who is slower than a milk float, this is what baffles me about this scenario, Hughes has moved us forward massively the football is much more palatable but I think he has made a huge mistake here.
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Post by crapslinger on Aug 5, 2015 11:18:27 GMT
We could well be did you not rate Tony Pulis then My views on Pulis are well known. Did a good job, could of done better with the money spent. So we do actually agree on something.
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Post by st4scfc on Aug 5, 2015 11:18:49 GMT
Question for pugsley, how do you compare our defence right now compared to the one that established scfc as a midtable and top 10 team?
Weaker, par or stronger? Sinple question, no need for spin
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Post by MarkWolstanton on Aug 5, 2015 11:20:34 GMT
Hughes knew Shawcross' back would flare up when he agreed to let the long term injured Huth go to Leicester? You have restored my faith in your opinion of the manager. You clearly think he has some sort of crystal ball. As for the other issues you refer to rather regally as documented I assume you mean other like minded posters who like you want to rubbish defenders who outperformed anything that has gone before? So he did not realise that Ryan was injured after he let Huth go out on loan, obviously not as he then sold Huth who had remained fully fit for the last four months of last season, not rocket science is it. No he did not. Neither did you or Higgy except with hindsight. Not that it matters a jot. Ryan was injured at the back end of last season. Huth was at Leicester. Did the side plummet alarmingly during that period then? Huth's time at Stoke was done. He has gone to a poorer side than we are not Champions League contenders. Go figure.
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Post by cheekymatt71 on Aug 5, 2015 11:21:51 GMT
We could well be did you not rate Tony Pulis then My views on Pulis are well known. Did a good job, could of done better with the money spent. Legacy
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Post by crapslinger on Aug 5, 2015 11:26:34 GMT
So he did not realise that Ryan was injured after he let Huth go out on loan, obviously not as he then sold Huth who had remained fully fit for the last four months of last season, not rocket science is it. No he did not. Neither did you or Higgy except with hindsight. Not that it matters a jot. Ryan was injured at the back end of last season. Huth was at Leicester. Did the side plummet alarmingly during that period then? Huth's time at Stoke was done. He has gone to a poorer side than we are not Champions League contenders. Go figure. So let me get this straight, Ryan was injured a couple of times last season and at the end of the season in particular, however Hughes , Higgy etc did not realised that he was injured meanwhile Huth was playing at Leicester at the same time Ryan was out with back problems confused.com
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Post by Pugsley on Aug 5, 2015 11:30:48 GMT
Question for pugsley, how do you compare our defence right now compared to the one that established scfc as a midtable and top 10 team? Weaker, par or stronger? Sinple question, no need for spin Obviously stronger as it's improved to the 6th best in the league without resorting to a back 8. And the top 10 bit was without Robert Huth AND last season crippling injuries. As for Wolly, i'm not a big fan but some of the dogshit posted about him is reprehensible.
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Post by MarkWolstanton on Aug 5, 2015 11:34:33 GMT
No he did not. Neither did you or Higgy except with hindsight. Not that it matters a jot. Ryan was injured at the back end of last season. Huth was at Leicester. Did the side plummet alarmingly during that period then? Huth's time at Stoke was done. He has gone to a poorer side than we are not Champions League contenders. Go figure. So let me get this straight, Ryan was injured a couple of times last season and at the end of the season in particular, however Hughes , Higgy etc did not realised that he was injured meanwhile Huth was playing at Leicester at the same time Ryan was out with back problems confused.com I don't think you are. I suspect you are clutching at straws to back up an argument that has no foundation other than your own poor opinion of a defensive unit that has performed better than any we have had in the Premier League. No one was to know that Shawcross would go down with his back at the time Huth was sold. It is as I have pointed out and proven, an irrelevance.
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Post by st4scfc on Aug 5, 2015 11:37:41 GMT
So he did not realise that Ryan was injured after he let Huth go out on loan, obviously not as he then sold Huth who had remained fully fit for the last four months of last season, not rocket science is it. No he did not. Neither did you or Higgy except with hindsight. Not that it matters a jot. Ryan was injured at the back end of last season. Huth was at Leicester. Did the side plummet alarmingly during that period then? Huth's time at Stoke was done. He has gone to a poorer side than we are not Champions League lcontenders. Go figure. huth didnt get games because shawcross had been fit for the most part and hughes likes at least one footballing defender. If he had been replaced by a more than capable player fair enough but lets be accurate he hasn't wollscheid is weak, slow and terrible. A huth type is exactly what we are missing now shawcross does have injury problems. Wollscheid wouldnt take place on my fire place mantle he's dire.
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Post by crapslinger on Aug 5, 2015 11:38:42 GMT
So let me get this straight, Ryan was injured a couple of times last season and at the end of the season in particular, however Hughes , Higgy etc did not realised that he was injured meanwhile Huth was playing at Leicester at the same time Ryan was out with back problems confused.com I don't think you are. I suspect you are clutching at straws to back up an argument that has no foundation other than your own poor opinion of a defensive unit that has performed better than any we have had in the Premier League. No one was to know that Shawcross would go down with his back at the time Huth was sold. It is as I have pointed out and proven, an irrelevance. Most people were well aware that Ryan was having issues with his back when Huth was sold, the acid test will be if Hughes plays Wolfy and he performs as Ryans replacement.
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Post by MarkWolstanton on Aug 5, 2015 11:40:34 GMT
No he did not. Neither did you or Higgy except with hindsight. Not that it matters a jot. Ryan was injured at the back end of last season. Huth was at Leicester. Did the side plummet alarmingly during that period then? Huth's time at Stoke was done. He has gone to a poorer side than we are not Champions League lcontenders. Go figure. huth didnt get games because shawcross had been fit for the most part and hughes likes at least one footballing defender. If he had been replaced by a more than capable player fair enough but lets be accurate he hasn't wollscheid is weak, slow and terrible. A huth type is exactly what we are missing now shawcross does have injury problems. Wollscheid wouldnt take place on my fire place mantle he's dire. Has you mantle played at Bundesliga and Premier League level?
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Post by timbo1988 on Aug 5, 2015 11:41:12 GMT
So let me get this straight, Ryan was injured a couple of times last season and at the end of the season in particular, however Hughes , Higgy etc did not realised that he was injured meanwhile Huth was playing at Leicester at the same time Ryan was out with back problems confused.com I don't think you are. I suspect you are clutching at straws to back up an argument that has no foundation other than your own poor opinion of a defensive unit that has performed better than any we have had in the Premier League. No one was to know that Shawcross would go down with his back at the time Huth was sold. It is as I have pointed out and proven, an irrelevance. The fact Shawcross got injured has nothing to do with the decision to sell Huth. Essentially Huth was sold and replaced with Wollscheid. Looking at that decision regardless of where we have finished in the league is easy. Is Huth better than Wollscheid and I think 99.9% of people would say yes he is. Therefore the decision to sell looks a poor one. As I stated previously this does not mean I am questioning Hughes, there are plenty of examples of world class managers who have made poor decisions at one point in their career. Pogba at Man United for Ferguson being the main one.
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Post by st4scfc on Aug 5, 2015 11:41:42 GMT
Question for pugsley, how do you compare our defence right now compared to the one that established scfc as a midtable and top 10 team? Weaker, par or stronger? Sinple question, no need for spin Obviously stronger as it's improved to the 6th best in the league without resorting to a back 8. And the top 10 bit was without Robert Huth AND last season crippling injuries. As for Wolly, i'm not a big fan but some of the dogshit posted about him is reprehensible. i believe you are going to be proved very wrong in the next few weeks. You're deluded if you think we're stronger with no nzonzi, a new untested keeper, a poor defensive attacking right back and an injury prone first choice centre half pairing. If that is stronger im mother teresa
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Post by Deleted on Aug 5, 2015 11:43:40 GMT
To be honest I don't think people are saying that Huth should be here and starting for Stoke. Wouldn't everyone say that Shawcross and Muniesa are the first names on the sheet?
The only argument is whether, in a season of mild transition, a fit again Huth would have been a better man to have around in reserve than Wollscheid.
If Hughes thinks not, fine. It's a point open for discussion though - especially as Hughes himself was so reluctant to use Wollscheid at the back end of last season, post Sunderland.
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Post by crapslinger on Aug 5, 2015 12:03:37 GMT
To be honest I don't think people are saying that Huth should be here and starting for Stoke. Wouldn't everyone say that Shawcross and Muniesa are the first names on the sheet? The only argument is whether, in a season of mild transition, a fit again Huth would have been a better man to have around in reserve than Wollscheid. If Hughes thinks not, fine. It's a point open for discussion though - especially as Hughes himself was so reluctant to use Wollscheid at the back end of last season, post Sunderland. And he still signed him, some wonder why his judgment is questioned.
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Post by Pugsley on Aug 5, 2015 12:08:47 GMT
Obviously stronger as it's improved to the 6th best in the league without resorting to a back 8. And the top 10 bit was without Robert Huth AND last season crippling injuries. As for Wolly, i'm not a big fan but some of the dogshit posted about him is reprehensible. i believe you are going to be proved very wrong in the next few weeks. You're deluded if you think we're stronger with no nzonzi, a new untested keeper, a poor defensive attacking right back and an injury prone first choice centre half pairing. If that is stronger im mother teresa We've replaced N'Zonzi, a bloke who has been CRUCIFIED on here, with a Dutch International who had a good last half of last season with AC Milan. We've got in an experienced 50 cap International full back. If Ryan's injury is as bad as feared we do need a centre back. I believe over the whole season we'll be fine.
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Post by st4scfc on Aug 5, 2015 12:11:42 GMT
To be honest I don't think people are saying that Huth should be here and starting for Stoke. Wouldn't everyone say that Shawcross and Muniesa are the first names on the sheet? The only argument is whether, in a season of mild transition, a fit again Huth would have been a better man to have around in reserve than Wollscheid. If Hughes thinks not, fine. It's a point open for discussion though - especially as Hughes himself was so reluctant to use Wollscheid at the back end of last season, post Sunderland. I'll be astonished if the management beleive our injury prone defence will make miraculous recoveries and shawcross & muniesa will play a lot of games, its a massive risk and very naive. I refuse to believe another centre half is not a priority at the moment and expect a bid will go in on a player out of the blue
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Post by thehoof on Aug 5, 2015 12:14:24 GMT
Given the purchases that the "Tinkerman" has made at Leicester, there is no guarantee that Robert will start. Perhaps we could cheekily ask for a loan back to Stoke?
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Post by st4scfc on Aug 5, 2015 12:22:11 GMT
i believe you are going to be proved very wrong in the next few weeks. You're deluded if you think we're stronger with no nzonzi, a new untested keeper, a poor defensive attacking right back and an injury prone first choice centre half pairing. If that is stronger im mother teresa We've replaced N'Zonzi, a bloke who has been CRUCIFIED on here, with a Dutch International who had a good last half of last season with AC Milan. We've got in an experienced 50 cap International full back. If Ryan's injury is as bad as feared we do need a centre back. I believe over the whole season we'll be fine. i can handle wollscheid as a player who will play now and again but this guy hasnt shown enough to suggest he can fill the void if shawcross' injury is a recurring one through the season. I was a big fan of nzonzi and without him alone we will be a poorer defensive team as he releived pressure on the defence by just giving him the ball. Mix all that together and for me its a dissaster waiting to happen if van ginkel isnt as calm and good with the ball at his feet. Just because hes done fairly decent in a good milan team doesn't guarantee he will do the same in a stoke shirt playing in english football, of course he may be fantastic but its still a gamble until he proves he can cut english football. Id of much prefered us to let another midfielder go aswell and bring in dembele aswell as an insurance policy. 7 out of 8 of our summer signings so far have it all to prove in england and at the same time we have sold two proven players and have injury concerns for the heart of defence.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 5, 2015 12:28:02 GMT
To be honest I don't think people are saying that Huth should be here and starting for Stoke. Wouldn't everyone say that Shawcross and Muniesa are the first names on the sheet? The only argument is whether, in a season of mild transition, a fit again Huth would have been a better man to have around in reserve than Wollscheid. If Hughes thinks not, fine. It's a point open for discussion though - especially as Hughes himself was so reluctant to use Wollscheid at the back end of last season, post Sunderland. And he still signed him, some wonder why his judgment is questioned. We're not behind the scenes so you'd hope that Wollscheid was just a bit shell shocked after his brief Stoke career (he was thrown in at the deep end) and Hughes took him out to clear his head and give him rest. He seemed nowhere near a first team start at the end of last season though, which has to cause concern - I thought his days were numbered. Wollscheid really doesn't convince me. Some people look like footballers, Wollscheid just doesn't do it for me. You have to cling to the fact that Hughes had a very long 'try before you buy' period and he must have confidence in him. I'd feel more at ease with Huth and Wilson in reserve, but lets see...
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Post by Pretty Little Boother on Aug 5, 2015 12:42:39 GMT
Sack the useless Hughes and buy Huth back then.
This season is clearly a write off and drastic changes need to be made before it's too late.
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Post by rawli on Aug 5, 2015 13:02:23 GMT
Nice selective use of the close season to illustrate your point. Four months of last season and two months pre season ? I think that makes six it did when I went to school. 2 months preseason? First friendly was 15th July. What school did you go to? Suggest you ask for a refund.
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Post by Sfance on Aug 5, 2015 13:05:46 GMT
And so it goes, tiddly pom, on snowing.
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Post by MarkWolstanton on Aug 5, 2015 13:11:00 GMT
I don't think you are. I suspect you are clutching at straws to back up an argument that has no foundation other than your own poor opinion of a defensive unit that has performed better than any we have had in the Premier League. No one was to know that Shawcross would go down with his back at the time Huth was sold. It is as I have pointed out and proven, an irrelevance. Most people were well aware that Ryan was having issues with his back when Huth was sold, the acid test will be if Hughes plays Wolfy and he performs as Ryans replacement. Read the back page of today's Sentinel which closes this part of your argument down.
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Post by jezzascfc on Aug 5, 2015 13:23:31 GMT
Good grief, is this thread still going.......? Hughes did not fancy Huth as Ryan's partner. Huth wanted games, so we let him go. It was hoped Ryan's back would settle down with rest and non-invasive treatment, as back ops are a big deal. Unfortunately, it now seems, a couple of months after Huth left for good, that Ryan may well need an op. I am sure a short-list of centre backs in whom Hughes does have confidence will be being drawn up, to come in to fill in for Ryan.
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