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Post by dozintheseventees on Jul 28, 2015 11:55:54 GMT
Just goes to show how differently we can see things. I think this is a good signing and Pulis has a pretty good track record (with a few exceptions) when it comes to CHs. Despite his (often stated on here) reluctance to give 'youth' a chance he is massively responsible for our current captain's progress (who he signed and played as a teenager) so I wouldn't take too many digs at his judgement in this area of the pitch. £8 Million is too much but, take a look around, young British players are crazily over priced. He was a massive hindrance on Ryan Shawcross' career, as recently hinted by the player himself. Stopped him from showing that he was actually a decent footballer he is whilst his defensive attributes would have taken care of themselves, they are what he is naturally fantastic at. Anyway, I didn't start the thread for another Pulis tactics discussion, I wanted to point out that this is an awful piece of business, represents no real value for money and our signings under the current management are far more astute. p.s. wouldn't say 26 is particularly young Sorry fella but you're just making things up there. Ryan has (many times) emphasised that he owes Pulis a lot for his career. You'll recall his 'rant' at K-Jones when he dared to criticise Pulis and his tactics. Ryan's recent comments were simply in praise of the current manager who he is clearly enjoying working under. Shawcross quite clearly has massive respect for Pulis. Regardless........the one area of the pitch most probably wouldn't have too many question-marks to put against Pulis' judgement is Central Defenders. Elsewhere.....well yes planty of debate there.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 28, 2015 11:58:10 GMT
Can he play full back????
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Post by thestatusquo on Jul 28, 2015 11:59:05 GMT
Who drops out of the Baggies team now then ??
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Post by potterpaul on Jul 28, 2015 11:59:23 GMT
Didn't we pay £6 Million (more in real terms than this deal) for an defender of similar age that had just been RELEGATED with Middlesbrough? I believe it was the same manager. Come on mate, there is a bit of a difference between Robert Huth, a Premier League winner and international for zee Germans and James Chester! And you say Pulis' judgement is solid in this area, off the top of my head for every Huth and Faye in the Premier League era there was a Sonko, Collins, Woodgate and Upson. The pedigree of the latter two meant they were good signings on paper, didnt take a footballing genius to know they were passed it. Our transfer policy is so much better now, words can't really do it justice. I think this could be the year Pulis gets found out. I kinda agree with your sentiment re Chester but I thought Upson did a decent job when asked to step up to the plate. I'll let WD stick up for Collins and Momo can stick up for the rest with the TP link.
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Post by The Drunken Communist on Jul 28, 2015 11:59:48 GMT
Just as I was begining to think we'd finally moved on from all this shit...
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Post by dozintheseventees on Jul 28, 2015 12:04:40 GMT
Didn't we pay £6 Million (more in real terms than this deal) for an defender of similar age that had just been RELEGATED with Middlesbrough? I believe it was the same manager. Come on mate, there is a bit of a difference between Robert Huth, a Premier League winner and international for zee Germans and James Chester! And you say Pulis' judgement is solid in this area, off the top of my head for every Huth and Faye in the Premier League era there was a Sonko, Collins, Woodgate and Upson. The pedigree of the latter two meant they were good signings on paper, didnt take a footballing genius to know they were passed it. Our transfer policy is so much better now, words can't really do it justice. I think this could be the year Pulis gets found out. Of course our transfer policy is much better now. I started out simply commenting on THIS transfer and whether or not it looks a good one for W/Brom..........I think it does. And you certainly CAN compare this with the Huth deal in that we signed a Central Defender from a relegate club for a lot of money (more than the Chesters deal with the passage of time) when, in truth, we weren't fighting off other clubs for his signature so he wasn't exactly 'hot property' at the time. As you rightly point out, he wasn't always 'spot on' with his judgement but some of the 'failures' you listed were signed as 'squad players' and a couple of them cost nothing. Collins was (IMO) his worst signing since he cost good money and wasn't much cop.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 28, 2015 12:11:41 GMT
Come on mate, there is a bit of a difference between Robert Huth, a Premier League winner and international for zee Germans and James Chester! And you say Pulis' judgement is solid in this area, off the top of my head for every Huth and Faye in the Premier League era there was a Sonko, Collins, Woodgate and Upson. The pedigree of the latter two meant they were good signings on paper, didnt take a footballing genius to know they were passed it. Our transfer policy is so much better now, words can't really do it justice. I think this could be the year Pulis gets found out. Of course our transfer policy is much better now. I started out simply commenting on THIS transfer and whether or not it looks a good one for W/Brom..........I think it does. And you certainly CAN compare this with the Huth deal in that we signed a Central Defender from a relegate club for a lot of money (more than the Chesters deal with the passage of time) when, in truth, we weren't fighting off other clubs for his signature so he wasn't exactly 'hot property' at the time. As you rightly point out, he wasn't always 'spot on' with his judgement but some of the 'failures' you listed were signed as 'squad players' and a couple of them cost nothing. Collins was (IMO) his worst signing since he cost good money and wasn't much cop. Fair enough but I said in my original post that I thought it was shocking and used it to compare our current and previous transfer policies. These great players we are getting for nothing (not saying this is our sole policy) compared to clumsy fees for average players. I think you even questioned the fee yourself and it is just that - clumsy. As for Shawcross, I read into his recent interview far more than that and I fully believe if Hughes has been here earlier he would be playing for England. I don't really ever see much point in debating 'what if's' so we will move on from that.
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Post by Kjones9 on Jul 28, 2015 12:12:58 GMT
What a daft thread.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 28, 2015 12:13:39 GMT
8 Million bargain !
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Post by dozintheseventees on Jul 28, 2015 12:14:54 GMT
Didn't we pay £6 Million (more in real terms than this deal) for an defender of similar age that had just been RELEGATED with Middlesbrough? I believe it was the same manager. Very interesting Doz but totally irrelevant. I'd agree Mark if Humph hadn't questioned the wisdom of signing a defender who had been part of a relegation team. THAT, I think is irrelevant unless you could actually show that they'd have done better without him there or you could pinpoint their defensive failings down to him. Clearly that's not the general view otherwise other clubs wouldn't have been keen to sign him. My point (which I'm sure you know) was that being part of a relegation team doesn't mean you're a poor player.
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Post by crapslinger on Jul 28, 2015 12:18:41 GMT
He's a decent defender. £8m's worth I'm not sure but he'll strengthen their defence Who knows what players are worth these days but Hull fans will be gutted to lose him and may well be disappointed at £8m. What price a fully fit Shawcross ? We would probably let him go for £5m going on how much we generally sell our better players for.
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Post by sheikhmomo on Jul 28, 2015 12:18:40 GMT
Highly rated I thought? Certainly targeted by more than one Premier League side this summer and he's a 25 year old international in and English to English transfer One question. Chester or Wollscheid? World shakes in shock and surprise to see you attacking almost everything your club does when it comes to transfer dealings and defending to the hilt everything Pulis farts in the direction of! TPFC number one fan. I'm sure you can find some excuse for it but I know what transfer dealings I prefer. I would prefer Chester here to Wollscheid, (I'd prefer Charlie fucking Chester here to Wollschied) how does that equate to supporting Pulis in your warped mind? I haven't commented on the quality of the transfer just that he's highly rated (he is) and £8M whilst a huge amount of money, it isn't a great deal for an English to English club transfer. Of course the real issue is that this messageboard continues to be 'monitored' by the most aggressive Pulis haters you could ever wish to meet. I mean otherwise this would be in the shit bin wouldn't it? Another example of showing your arse.
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Post by dozintheseventees on Jul 28, 2015 12:19:09 GMT
Of course our transfer policy is much better now. I started out simply commenting on THIS transfer and whether or not it looks a good one for W/Brom..........I think it does. And you certainly CAN compare this with the Huth deal in that we signed a Central Defender from a relegate club for a lot of money (more than the Chesters deal with the passage of time) when, in truth, we weren't fighting off other clubs for his signature so he wasn't exactly 'hot property' at the time. As you rightly point out, he wasn't always 'spot on' with his judgement but some of the 'failures' you listed were signed as 'squad players' and a couple of them cost nothing. Collins was (IMO) his worst signing since he cost good money and wasn't much cop. Fair enough but I said in my original post that I thought it was shocking and used it to compare our current and previous transfer policies. These great players we are getting for nothing (not saying this is our sole policy) compared to clumsy fees for average players. I think you even questioned the fee yourself and it is just that - clumsy. As for Shawcross, I read into his recent interview far more than that and I fully believe if Hughes has been here earlier he would be playing for England. I don't really ever see much point in debating 'what if's' so we will move on from that. All fair comment TBH mate. I think it IS too much money but (God knows why) British players are massively over-priced. I never intended to debate our transfer policy against that under Pulis mate because I think that is pointless. I think it's much better now but....different times and all that.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 28, 2015 12:19:09 GMT
Makes it very clear why our club have twice dispensed with Pulis to replace him with a manager willing to buy players who have not played in the Premier League.
And as for Chester or Wollscheid? Wollscheid by a country mile. Especially considering neither are better than Muniesa or Shawcross and would be a back up.
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Post by sheikhmomo on Jul 28, 2015 12:23:26 GMT
Highly rated I thought? Certainly targeted by more than one Premier League side this summer and he's a 25 year old international in and English to English transfer One question. Chester or Wollscheid? Please tell me that is a joke? Highly rated at the age of 26? He has just been relegated in one of the worse defences in the league, part of a back 5 as well! Say what you will about Wolly, I know there isn't much point defending him on this board but I'm sure he put better performances in last season and like someone has already pointed out, did not cost £8 million! Please tell me more about James Chester (like Ryan, a graduate of the Man Utd academy) where his failings are, what you see as his true market value and why you are concerned about West Brom's transfer business. Then there might be a basis for a discussion, rather than your Pulis hating dogshit.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 28, 2015 12:25:55 GMT
Very interesting Doz but totally irrelevant. I'd agree Mark if Humph hadn't questioned the wisdom of signing a defender who had been part of a relegation team. THAT, I think is irrelevant unless you could actually show that they'd have done better without him there or you could pinpoint their defensive failings down to him. Clearly that's not the general view otherwise other clubs wouldn't have been keen to sign him. My point (which I'm sure you know) was that being part of a relegation team doesn't mean you're a poor player. I wouldn't say I was questioning the wisdom of it. If it is a good signing then it is a good signing, I would have Austin or Fer here in a heartbeat. In the case of Chester for £8 million, however, I think how dismal Hull were last year becomes a factor, especially as West Brom are definitely going to be struggling this year.
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Post by sheikhmomo on Jul 28, 2015 12:26:04 GMT
Highly rated I thought? Certainly targeted by more than one Premier League side this summer and he's a 25 year old international in and English to English transfer One question. Chester or Wollscheid? Every comment about Tone (or even west brom oddly) has to result in a swipe about Stoke from your good self. . That's simply not true. I will challenge horse shit like this that comes from a basis of absolutely no knowledge whatsoever though, however much some Oatcake admin with decades long history of hate try to take the moral high ground.
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Post by dirtygary69 on Jul 28, 2015 12:28:02 GMT
Can someone please tell me where James Chester did anything to warrant being 'rated'?
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Post by Kjones9 on Jul 28, 2015 12:28:14 GMT
Please tell me that is a joke? Highly rated at the age of 26? He has just been relegated in one of the worse defences in the league, part of a back 5 as well! Say what you will about Wolly, I know there isn't much point defending him on this board but I'm sure he put better performances in last season and like someone has already pointed out, did not cost £8 million! Please tell me more about James Chester (like Ryan, a graduate of the Man Utd academy) where his failings are, what you see as his true market value and why you are concerned about West Brom's transfer business. Then there might be a basis for a discussion, rather than your Pulis hating dogshit. Yes, thank you very much. You are the happiest clapper of them all. Why can't you just accept that people have a different view on the business done this summer and this doesn't mean there is some subversive plot to undermine Mark Hughes and reinstate Tony Pulis with a crown on his head. That (along with the voices) really is just inside your head. Read more: oatcakefanzine.proboards.com/user/462/recent#ixzz3hBjI83anSwap the business done with business done by west brom and 2 names around and the message is the same.
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Post by metalhead on Jul 28, 2015 12:27:59 GMT
Chester vs Wolly?
Wolly.
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Post by Danstoke82 on Jul 28, 2015 12:28:42 GMT
Pulis loves a centre half!, fully expect him to be positioned at left back.
Dawson - McAuley - Lescott - Chester four centre backs across the back four.
£8m though?? shocking.
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Post by crapslinger on Jul 28, 2015 12:29:14 GMT
Highly rated I thought? Certainly targeted by more than one Premier League side this summer and he's a 25 year old international in and English to English transfer One question. Chester or Wollscheid? Wollscheid Lets see at the end of this coming season, as people have pointed out Wolly needs to be judged over a longer period, he has had a good four months at the end of last season with plenty of rest time and a full pre season under his belt let's judge him now he has had time to acclimatise.
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Post by sheikhmomo on Jul 28, 2015 12:31:22 GMT
Please tell me more about James Chester (like Ryan, a graduate of the Man Utd academy) where his failings are, what you see as his true market value and why you are concerned about West Brom's transfer business. Then there might be a basis for a discussion, rather than your Pulis hating dogshit. Yes, thank you very much. You are the happiest clapper of them all. Why can't you just accept that people have a different view on the business done this summer and this doesn't mean there is some subversive plot to undermine Mark Hughes and reinstate Tony Pulis with a crown on his head. That (along with the voices) really is just inside your head. Read more: oatcakefanzine.proboards.com/user/462/recent#ixzz3hBjI83anSwap the business done with business done by west brom and 2 names around and the message is the same. I'm not sure what you mean. What relevance does West Brom's business have to Stoke City?
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Post by crapslinger on Jul 28, 2015 12:32:46 GMT
Can he play full back???? I suspect he will find out at some point next season.
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Post by thebet365 on Jul 28, 2015 12:34:56 GMT
I'd agree Mark if Humph hadn't questioned the wisdom of signing a defender who had been part of a relegation team. THAT, I think is irrelevant unless you could actually show that they'd have done better without him there or you could pinpoint their defensive failings down to him. Clearly that's not the general view otherwise other clubs wouldn't have been keen to sign him. My point (which I'm sure you know) was that being part of a relegation team doesn't mean you're a poor player. I wouldn't say I was questioning the wisdom of it. If it is a good signing then it is a good signing, I would have Austin or Fer here in a heartbeat. In the case of Chester for £8 million, however, I think how dismal Hull were last year becomes a factor, especially as West Brom are definitely going to be struggling this year. Hull's main problem last year was scoring goals not conceding them. Whilst pricey it's a steady signing. How come West Brom are definitely going to struggle ? They were fairly steady under TP last season. If they lose Berahino then they could be in trouble but as things stand they look fine compared to Villa, Watford (Complete unkown with virtually a new team) Leicester.
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Post by jezzascfc on Jul 28, 2015 12:35:30 GMT
Not looking to get into the TP debate (again!!!!), but he does seem very care free with others' money when given a larger war chest to spend, as his splurge at Stoke suggests. Chester is not a bad player, but that is top dollar for him.
I am glad we remain a bit more wary of being taken for a ride these days. If it means we miss the odd target or two, fair do's; others will want to play for us if we are patient and have a good scouting network. Let's pay top dollar for top talent, not for average no risk British players who will "do a job" (which is TP's MO).
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Post by PONTAFCE on Jul 28, 2015 12:36:54 GMT
Anyone else give a fucks about what business Pulis does these days?
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Post by Kjones9 on Jul 28, 2015 12:37:44 GMT
Yes, thank you very much. You are the happiest clapper of them all. Why can't you just accept that people have a different view on the business done this summer and this doesn't mean there is some subversive plot to undermine Mark Hughes and reinstate Tony Pulis with a crown on his head. That (along with the voices) really is just inside your head. Read more: oatcakefanzine.proboards.com/user/462/recent#ixzz3hBjI83anSwap the business done with business done by west brom and 2 names around and the message is the same. I'm not sure what you mean. What relevance does West Brom's business have to Stoke City? The paranoia bit. So we can't take the piss out them anymore?
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Post by Deleted on Jul 28, 2015 12:37:49 GMT
Please tell me that is a joke? Highly rated at the age of 26? He has just been relegated in one of the worse defences in the league, part of a back 5 as well! Say what you will about Wolly, I know there isn't much point defending him on this board but I'm sure he put better performances in last season and like someone has already pointed out, did not cost £8 million! Please tell me more about James Chester (like Ryan, a graduate of the Man Utd academy) where his failings are, what you see as his true market value and why you are concerned about West Brom's transfer business. Then there might be a basis for a discussion, rather than your Pulis hating dogshit. Let's not beat around the bush, Stoke fans take interest in what Pulis does, whether you love him or hate him, they do. Period. So please don't question why I take an interest in their signings, or merely try to open a decent debate that I've actually been able to have with dozintheseventees. Read my original post, it was merely a comparison of our transfer policy, more so aimed at people moaning about this summer's business. It was actually very positive about our current affairs, using the past to show how good things are now. I haven't been a poster on the Oatcake for long to be honest pal, but in my days of being an onlooker and my short time as a more active poster I have been able to gather that positivity isn't really your thing is it? Maybe that is why you love Pulis so much, his boring and negative football perhaps suits your personality and that is fair enough mate. As for Chester, the fact you have compared him to Shawcross is laughable and the fact you think being a United graduate makes him decent is just as funny. If his graduation from the shit showed any promise he wouldn't be getting relegated with Hull at the age of 26 and resurrecting his career at Tony Pulis' West fucking Brom.
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Post by thebet365 on Jul 28, 2015 12:39:37 GMT
Can someone please tell me where James Chester did anything to warrant being 'rated'? Signed for Hull in the championship, became a mainstay of their defence and got them promoted. Fairly recently called upto international side. Fairly similar path to our Ryan. He's rated rather highly by us isn't he ? If we sold him for 8 Million this place would be bedlam.
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