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Post by partickpotter on Jun 15, 2015 6:05:04 GMT
Can't get excited about qualifiers. We've got an easy group again that we're strolling through.
The test comes in the finals.
Not seen anything here to make me more optimistic ( or pessimistic for that matter!).
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Post by Trouserdog on Jun 15, 2015 6:32:10 GMT
Good performance but we'll get found out at the back against top quality sides. We look exactly the same as we did in Brazil. Their second goal was yet another joke. It's screaming out for Ryan Shawcross to command and marshall our back line. Infuriating. The same Ryan Shawcross who shipped 3 goals in 15 minutes in his one appearance for England to date?
I think he deserves another go as much as the next person, but dont talk as though hes the solution to all the problems when you have 3 Premier League medals and a Champions League between the two who were there tonight, both of whom have been very good for their top 4 clubs. The personnel doesnt matter. You're a Man U gloryhunter aren't you? (If I've got the right person).
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Post by Deleted on Jun 15, 2015 6:35:38 GMT
Good performance but we'll get found out at the back against top quality sides. We look exactly the same as we did in Brazil. Their second goal was yet another joke. It's screaming out for Ryan Shawcross to command and marshall our back line. Infuriating. The same Ryan Shawcross who shipped 3 goals in 15 minutes in his one appearance for England to date? I think he deserves another go as much as the next person, but dont talk as though hes the solution to all the problems when you have 3 Premier League medals and a Champions League between the two who were there tonight, both of whom have been very good for their top 4 clubs. The personnel doesnt matter. Did you watch the World Cup? Besides, everyone knows you're a Man United fan, why do you bother coming on here?
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Post by Trouserdog on Jun 15, 2015 6:45:07 GMT
Ah, he is a Man Utd fan...thought so.
In that case he can fuck right off posting shit about Stoke players.
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Post by britsabroad on Jun 15, 2015 6:59:19 GMT
Whats the team i support got to do with the fact that Shawcross put in one of the worst defensive performances of his life in his sole England opportunity?
He is no better than either of the current two for his club, so what makes you think he will step it up for country? You all bitch and moan about his omission as though if he played we would start winning everything.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 15, 2015 7:05:35 GMT
Ah, he is a Man Utd fan...thought so. In that case he can fuck right off posting shit about Stoke players. Trousers, AKA The Rimmerfinder General has finally sniffed him out...
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Post by Deleted on Jun 15, 2015 7:06:34 GMT
Whats the team i support got to do with the fact that Shawcross put in one of the worst defensive performances of his life in his sole England opportunity? He is no better than either of the current two for his club, so what makes you think he will step it up for country? You all bitch and moan about his omission as though if he played we would start winning everything. Jones is wank. Ryan isnt. Ducking Stool Ducking Stool Ducking Stool Ducking Stool Ducking Stool
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Post by britsabroad on Jun 15, 2015 7:56:47 GMT
Whats the team i support got to do with the fact that Shawcross put in one of the worst defensive performances of his life in his sole England opportunity? He is no better than either of the current two for his club, so what makes you think he will step it up for country? You all bitch and moan about his omission as though if he played we would start winning everything. Jones is wank. Ryan isnt. Ducking Stool Ducking Stool Ducking Stool Ducking Stool Ducking Stool But Jones was not playing in central defence was he. Jesus did you even watch the game?
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Post by staffsvilla on Jun 15, 2015 8:22:32 GMT
Whats the team i support got to do with the fact that Shawcross put in one of the worst defensive performances of his life in his sole England opportunity? He is no better than either of the current two for his club, so what makes you think he will step it up for country? You all bitch and moan about his omission as though if he played we would start winning everything. his 'sole England opportunity' was a 15 min debut in a disjointed England side struggling to contain one of the worlds best strikers, ideal baptism of fire at international level eh anyway should you not be more concerned how the argies let a 2 goal lead slip at the Copa America
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Post by Davef on Jun 15, 2015 8:34:13 GMT
Good performance but we'll get found out at the back against top quality sides. We look exactly the same as we did in Brazil. Their second goal was yet another joke. It's screaming out for Ryan Shawcross to command and marshall our back line. Infuriating. The same Ryan Shawcross who shipped 3 goals in 15 minutes in his one appearance for England to date? At fault for one goal... a mistake that he will have learned massively from had he been given a further opportunity by Hodgson. Our keeper beaten by a thirty yard free kick for another and an unbelievable overhead kick after the same keeper had made a balls up of clearing his lines. That's Ryan Shawcross shipping three goals is it? Idiot.
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Post by britsabroad on Jun 15, 2015 9:02:15 GMT
The same Ryan Shawcross who shipped 3 goals in 15 minutes in his one appearance for England to date? At fault for one goal... a mistake that he will have learned massively from had he been given a further opportunity by Hodgson. Our keeper beaten by a thirty yard free kick for another and an unbelievable overhead kick after the same keeper had made a balls up of clearing his lines. That's Ryan Shawcross shipping three goals is it? Idiot. Its still 3 goals in 15 minutes when he came on, after conceding one in the prior 75 mins. You lot act like hes going to be England's saviour if only he was given another chance. Every defender is shit in Englands poor setup, even ones who are better than Shawcross for their club. There is no reason to think we're leaving the next Messi at home by not picking Ryan, yet every England game is met by bleating about his omission.
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Post by Gods on Jun 15, 2015 9:06:38 GMT
At fault for one goal... a mistake that he will have learned massively from had he been given a further opportunity by Hodgson. Our keeper beaten by a thirty yard free kick for another and an unbelievable overhead kick after the same keeper had made a balls up of clearing his lines. That's Ryan Shawcross shipping three goals is it? Idiot. Its still 3 goals in 15 minutes when he came on, after conceding one in the prior 75 mins. You lot act like hes going to be England's saviour if only he was given another chance. Every defender is shit in Englands poor setup, even ones who are better than Shawcross for their club. There is no reason to think we're leaving the next Messi at home by not picking Ryan, yet every England game is met by bleating about his omission. It's a Stoke City message board mate and we have had precious few England internationals down the years so this topic is always likely to lead the agenda on here.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 15, 2015 9:09:46 GMT
At fault for one goal... a mistake that he will have learned massively from had he been given a further opportunity by Hodgson. Our keeper beaten by a thirty yard free kick for another and an unbelievable overhead kick after the same keeper had made a balls up of clearing his lines. That's Ryan Shawcross shipping three goals is it? Idiot. Its still 3 goals in 15 minutes when he came on, after conceding one in the prior 75 mins. You lot act like hes going to be England's saviour if only he was given another chance. Every defender is shit in Englands poor setup, even ones who are better than Shawcross for their club. There is no reason to think we're leaving the next Messi at home by not picking Ryan, yet every England game is met by bleating about his omission. How you can you come on here, a Man U fanffs, and then start telling us all how shit Ryan is? The lad has been seriously overlooked, at the very least he's been unfortunate. I only caught the highlights last night but it looked like Brazil 2014 all over again. Their second was a stark reminder of that tournament - all over the place, schoolboy stuff. This England side cant defend, is that not obvious? At Chelsea Cahill has John Terry as well. He's not too shabby is he? We'll get found out as soon as we face a decent side, I guarantee it. Hodgson is sleepwalking us into another first round exit. We need some discipline at the back.
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Post by foxysgloves on Jun 15, 2015 9:31:43 GMT
At fault for one goal... a mistake that he will have learned massively from had he been given a further opportunity by Hodgson. Our keeper beaten by a thirty yard free kick for another and an unbelievable overhead kick after the same keeper had made a balls up of clearing his lines. That's Ryan Shawcross shipping three goals is it? Idiot. Its still 3 goals in 15 minutes when he came on, after conceding one in the prior 75 mins. You lot act like hes going to be England's saviour if only he was given another chance. Every defender is shit in Englands poor setup, even ones who are better than Shawcross for their club. There is no reason to think we're leaving the next Messi at home by not picking Ryan, yet every England game is met by bleating about his omission. Ferguson got very little wrong in his time at United. Letting Ryan leave while trusting the likes of Evans, Jones, Smalling etc to fill the gaps left by proper defenders like Vidic was a grade one fuck up however. If he'd used Ryan the way he used Evans you'd now have a great captain and a solid defence while England would have at least one proper defender in the team. As it is we have had the great fortune to see Ryan be at the heart of a truly great period for our club. If England had appointed a manager with all his marbles and a pair of bollocks then England would have also benefitted from Ryan's presence.
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Post by werrington on Jun 15, 2015 9:36:18 GMT
Its still 3 goals in 15 minutes when he came on, after conceding one in the prior 75 mins. You lot act like hes going to be England's saviour if only he was given another chance. Every defender is shit in Englands poor setup, even ones who are better than Shawcross for their club. There is no reason to think we're leaving the next Messi at home by not picking Ryan, yet every England game is met by bleating about his omission. Ferguson got very little wrong in his time at United. Letting Ryan leave while trusting the likes of Evans, Jones, Smalling etc to fill the gaps left by proper defenders like Vidic was a grade one fuck up however. If he'd used Ryan the way he used Evans you'd now have a great captain and a solid defence while England would have at least one proper defender in the team. As it is we have had the great fortune to see Ryan be at the heart of a truly great period for our club. If England had appointed a manager with all his marbles and a pair of bollocks then England would have also benefitted from Ryan's presence. Ferguson wrote in his match day notes in his last season v Stoke that he should never have sold him If he'd been on that pitch last night he'd of been slaughtered by the media ......Smalling and Cahill just get thrown in with the rest of the defence and are not named individually It's utter bollocks and why people are still talking about a game v Sweden 3 years ago when England have continued to be utter shite defensively is beyond words
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Post by Davef on Jun 15, 2015 9:55:37 GMT
At fault for one goal... a mistake that he will have learned massively from had he been given a further opportunity by Hodgson. Our keeper beaten by a thirty yard free kick for another and an unbelievable overhead kick after the same keeper had made a balls up of clearing his lines. That's Ryan Shawcross shipping three goals is it? Idiot. Its still 3 goals in 15 minutes when he came on, after conceding one in the prior 75 mins. Still an idiot. And a Shit fan.
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Post by foxysgloves on Jun 15, 2015 9:59:37 GMT
Ferguson got very little wrong in his time at United. Letting Ryan leave while trusting the likes of Evans, Jones, Smalling etc to fill the gaps left by proper defenders like Vidic was a grade one fuck up however. If he'd used Ryan the way he used Evans you'd now have a great captain and a solid defence while England would have at least one proper defender in the team. As it is we have had the great fortune to see Ryan be at the heart of a truly great period for our club. If England had appointed a manager with all his marbles and a pair of bollocks then England would have also benefitted from Ryan's presence. Ferguson wrote in his match day notes in his last season v Stoke that he should never have sold him If he'd been on that pitch last night he'd of been slaughtered by the media ......Smalling and Cahill just get thrown in with the rest of the defence and are not named individually It's utter bollocks and why people are still talking about a game v Sweden 3 years ago when England have continued to be utter shite defensively is beyond words Agreed 100%. Absolute bollocks....particularly when in that 3 years Ryan has been a model of consistency and quality.
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Post by britsabroad on Jun 15, 2015 10:05:43 GMT
Its still 3 goals in 15 minutes when he came on, after conceding one in the prior 75 mins. You lot act like hes going to be England's saviour if only he was given another chance. Every defender is shit in Englands poor setup, even ones who are better than Shawcross for their club. There is no reason to think we're leaving the next Messi at home by not picking Ryan, yet every England game is met by bleating about his omission. How you can you come on here, a Man U fanffs, and then start telling us all how shit Ryan is? The lad has been seriously overlooked, at the very least he's been unfortunate. I only caught the highlights last night but it looked like Brazil 2014 all over again. Their second was a stark reminder of that tournament - all over the place, schoolboy stuff. This England side cant defend, is that not obvious? At Chelsea Cahill has John Terry as well. He's not too shabby is he? We'll get found out as soon as we face a decent side, I guarantee it. Hodgson is sleepwalking us into another first round exit. We need some discipline at the back. When did i say he was shit? I said he made a balls up of his one chance, which he did. I like him and until he dropped off this season i wished we hadnt let him go. I also said Smalling and Cahill have been better than Shawcross for their clubs this season, so with that in mind why does anyone think Shawcross is going to be some kind of saviour?
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Post by Deleted on Jun 15, 2015 11:27:23 GMT
How you can you come on here, a Man U fanffs, and then start telling us all how shit Ryan is? The lad has been seriously overlooked, at the very least he's been unfortunate. I only caught the highlights last night but it looked like Brazil 2014 all over again. Their second was a stark reminder of that tournament - all over the place, schoolboy stuff. This England side cant defend, is that not obvious? At Chelsea Cahill has John Terry as well. He's not too shabby is he? We'll get found out as soon as we face a decent side, I guarantee it. Hodgson is sleepwalking us into another first round exit. We need some discipline at the back. When did i say he was shit? I said he made a balls up of his one chance, which he did. I like him and until he dropped off this season i wished we hadnt let him go. I also said Smalling and Cahill have been better than Shawcross for their clubs this season, so with that in mind why does anyone think Shawcross is going to be some kind of saviour? You said he shipped 3 ffs! ship 3 = shit. Ryan has been part of one the most solid defences in Europe for a number of seasons, against all the odds. Brits, if you reckon that Hodgson's England will be able to defend against a motivated Germany, Italy or Spain in tournament mode then I think you need to give your head a wobble. I'd like to see a "none shall pass" approach restored to Englands back line. Should be Terry/Shawcross slamming the door firmly shut. Weve forgotten how to defend.
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Post by werrington on Jun 15, 2015 11:46:19 GMT
How you can you come on here, a Man U fanffs, and then start telling us all how shit Ryan is? The lad has been seriously overlooked, at the very least he's been unfortunate. I only caught the highlights last night but it looked like Brazil 2014 all over again. Their second was a stark reminder of that tournament - all over the place, schoolboy stuff. This England side cant defend, is that not obvious? At Chelsea Cahill has John Terry as well. He's not too shabby is he? We'll get found out as soon as we face a decent side, I guarantee it. Hodgson is sleepwalking us into another first round exit. We need some discipline at the back. When did i say he was shit? I said he made a balls up of his one chance, which he did. I like him and until he dropped off this season i wished we hadnt let him go. I also said Smalling and Cahill have been better than Shawcross for their clubs this season, so with that in mind why does anyone think Shawcross is going to be some kind of saviour? Have they ?.....have they really ? The stats and performances don't back that up other than the pre conceived media bollocks
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Post by nott1 on Jun 15, 2015 11:48:59 GMT
Smalling is absolute shite in comparison to Ryan. A great big FACT.
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Post by geoff321 on Jun 15, 2015 12:16:38 GMT
As England manager Roy Hodgson has a record of average goals conceded per game of 0.76, this compares to Sven at 0.91 per game, Capello at 0.83 per game and the latter two had some of the best ever England defenders in their teams.
Hodgson may not be popular on this board but the idea that it's the defence that's the problem is not born out by the statistics.
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Post by werrington on Jun 15, 2015 12:23:58 GMT
As England manager Roy Hodgson has a record of average goals conceded per game of 0.76, this compares to Sven at 0.91 per game, Capello at 0.83 per game and the latter two had some of the best ever England defenders in their teams. Hodgson may not be popular on this board but the idea that it's the defence that's the problem is not born out by the statistics. The quality of the opposition and no cutting edge to the groups blows that particular stat out of the water Geoff
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Post by geoff321 on Jun 15, 2015 12:32:32 GMT
Not necessarily wezza, Capello for instance had been in charge for 42 games and Hodgson for 39, it would be extremely difficult over those number of games to prove the former had the more difficult opposition to face.
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Post by britsabroad on Jun 15, 2015 12:54:41 GMT
When did i say he was shit? I said he made a balls up of his one chance, which he did. I like him and until he dropped off this season i wished we hadnt let him go. I also said Smalling and Cahill have been better than Shawcross for their clubs this season, so with that in mind why does anyone think Shawcross is going to be some kind of saviour? Have they ?.....have they really ? The stats and performances don't back that up other than the pre conceived media bollocks What stats are these then? Shawcross doesnt lead the three on any stat you choose to look at, other than blocks made, which is pretty obvious really as Stoke have more shots against them than Chelsea and Man United do. Tackles won, headers won, fouls committed etc is all Smalling or Cahill.
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Post by greyman on Jun 15, 2015 13:28:42 GMT
Whats the team i support got to do with the fact that Shawcross put in one of the worst defensive performances of his life in his sole England opportunity? He is no better than either of the current two for his club, so what makes you think he will step it up for country? You all bitch and moan about his omission as though if he played we would start winning everything. Not quite as bad as some of Smalling's performances though given that Shawcross was only at fault for one goal. The facts of that game are that he was brought on by the manager as a sub against an inform Zlatan while Gary Cahill decided to go AWOL. Looked like a complete stitch up to me and I wouldn't expect Hodgson to make similar judgements about the various Man U reserves he habitually picks, based on throwing them on to cope with one of the world's best players while more experienced team mates leave them to it. Phil Jones can't even cope with Slovenia's left winger, never mind Zlatan Ibrahimovic. The manager then decides it's all Shawcross's fault and lets people like you hang him out to dry? Fuck Hodgson.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 15, 2015 17:48:27 GMT
Wow my - 'Enemy of the state' thread is still running - as Ive said before, two 'true' international players presently in that set up
(Rooney & Hart)
- go through the rest of them 'man for man' and honestly - I just dont see a team that would progress to the latter stages of any competition right now
I mean:- Gibbs Jones Smalling Cahill Jagielka Delph Wilshire Sterling Townsend
et al
Roy says 'theres a lot of potential to improve in that team'
too bloody right because in truth, they're collectively really not up to much and will get found out in proper competition
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Post by MrMagic on Jun 15, 2015 18:10:33 GMT
,, I also said Smalling and Cahill have been better than Shawcross for their clubs this season, so with that in mind why does anyone think Shawcross is going to be some kind of saviour?[/quote]
I don't think anyone thinks that's its a given that Ryan would be England's saviour. What those of us who watch him play week in week out know is that he's definately deserved another call up. However the idiot we have for a manager, combined with a corrupt FA in thrall of the top teams has seen that he's been overlooked.
England's defence has looked awful for quite some time, and it's clear that Roy doesn't have a clue who is best back 4 are. What he does know is that he has to pick from certain teams hence the shoe-horning in of the shockingly poor Jones at RB ahead of Clyne on Sunday.
What seems to have been lost is that the primary role of a centre half is to defend his goal, not to make cross field Hollywood passes. Smalling has the positional awareness of an U9s player so don't try to tell us he's better than shawcross.
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Post by geoff321 on Jun 15, 2015 18:37:33 GMT
Just to try and put Hodgson's defensive record as England manager into some sort of perspective.
He has been in charge for 39 games and we have conceded 30 goals.
There has been a total of 19 clean sheets, and 12 games where we have conceded just 1 goal per game.
We have only conceded more than 2 goals in any game once, that was against Sweden.
Of the five losses, three have been by a single goal
As many on this board think both Hodgson and the England defenders are not very good, then it has to be a subjective opinion on their part because statistically their arguments don't add up.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 15, 2015 18:42:08 GMT
Smalling is one of the worst defenders in the Premiership. Suffice to say if Ryan played for Man U and Smalling for Stoke,Ryan would have 50 caps by now and smalling zero
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