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Post by bmstoke on May 21, 2015 22:04:09 GMT
Your 'strong' views are going to provoke negative reactions though mumf you must realise that. [/quote/] If i had insulted him in the same way as he did me then I would gave been banned . The fact that he is a queer apologist allows scum like this to bend the rules . He then has the audacity to call me bigoted . This inert excuse of a man needs a sense of values , and by that that i dont mean fucking about on the back back of a lorry dressed as a transvestite queen in some parade . Ive shit better than him . ! I have values, I take people as I find them and don't judge them by what they choose to do in their sex life. You are a homophobic bigot and I find it incredible that you deny this.
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Post by edgepotter on May 21, 2015 22:04:20 GMT
Your 'strong' views are going to provoke negative reactions though mumf you must realise that. [/quote/] If i had insulted him in the same way as he did me then I would gave been banned . The fact that he is a queer apologist allows scum like this to bend the rules . He then has the audacity to call me bigoted . This inert excuse of a man needs a sense of values , and by that that i dont mean fucking about on the back back of a lorry dressed as a transvestite queen in some parade . Ive shit better than him . ! Some of the things you post are incendiary and negative to say the least though mumf (some would say bigoted) and they are going to provoke a reaction
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Post by edgepotter on May 21, 2015 22:08:29 GMT
So do I! Genuinely, how do we accommodate a couple who are running a small business, and hold some sincere views, do not wish to make any issues, but are not 'allowed ' to quietly hold their views ( which many may share , even if not legally recognised) Is is right that in a society that is advanced as ours people are discriminating against others because of their religion though John? There are many things in the bible and other religions that have been around for a while that are outdated because of the time that they were written. I don't think it makes sense to hold such views in an educated, progressive society.
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Post by bmstoke on May 21, 2015 22:16:39 GMT
So do I! Genuinely, how do we accommodate a couple who are running a small business, and hold some sincere views, do not wish to make any issues, but are not 'allowed ' to quietly hold their views ( which many may share , even if not legally recognised) Is is right that in a society that is advanced as ours people are discriminating against others because of their religion though John? There are many things in the bible and other religions that have been around for a while that are outdated because of the time that they were written. I don't think it makes sense to hold such views in an educated, progressive society. The point is the bakers didn't refuse to serve them because they were gay , they objected to the message on the cake. I have sympathy with the bakers, whilst disagreeing with their views. They were being used to make a political point, and that really isn't fair.
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Post by bigjohnritchie on May 21, 2015 22:26:56 GMT
So do I! Genuinely, how do we accommodate a couple who are running a small business, and hold some sincere views, do not wish to make any issues, but are not 'allowed ' to quietly hold their views ( which many may share , even if not legally recognised) Is is right that in a society that is advanced as ours people are discriminating against others because of their religion though John? There are many things in the bible and other religions that have been around for a while that are outdated because of the time that they were written. I don't think it makes sense to hold such views in an educated, progressive society. Edge Even in an advanced society (and that is a VERY questionable concept, some would argue that the world is regressing at an alarming rate) people have a mind of their own and can hold original, individual views, not necessarily religious. The couple in this case feel victimised ,powerless and pariahs, yet mean no real harm. It seems as though they have to conform to the liberal mantra or they are ostracised and victimised in our technological global world. Personally I am fairly liberal and welcome gay rights but I have some sympathy for the bakers in this case. Up the Vale!
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Post by edgepotter on May 21, 2015 22:36:32 GMT
Is is right that in a society that is advanced as ours people are discriminating against others because of their religion though John? There are many things in the bible and other religions that have been around for a while that are outdated because of the time that they were written. I don't think it makes sense to hold such views in an educated, progressive society. The point is the bakers didn't refuse to serve them because they were gay , they objected to the message on the cake. I have sympathy with the bakers, whilst disagreeing with their views. They were being used to make a political point, and that really isn't fair. The issue is obviously with the slogan on the cake but again I don't understand why it would be such a problem even for a Christian? Just because they've wrote the message it doesn't mean that they themselves are promoting that message, it's still being promoted by the people who ordered the cake. What if the owners of a bakery refused to make a cake because it had a 'pro-religion' slogan on it. People would be just as critical of the owners of such a bakery.
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Post by RipRoaringPotter on May 21, 2015 22:38:00 GMT
I'd argue most people are a bit fucking weird in some way or another - some more obviously than others. What's so abnormal about gay people having a march? Is it any different than, for example, a trade union march or party political conference? It's just a group of people organising an event to promote a group of society, and the issues that affect them. It is difficult for any normal person to understand what would possess any queer to march down any street dressed provocatively to attract attention to themselves whilst holding hands with some other hairy arsed bloke to bring to everyones attention that they're queer. What is the fucking point ? ......,unless of course you are one ? ......and i am unanimous . Ah the old if-you-don't-hate-queers-then-you-must-be-a-queer argument - well done, you've made yourself sound like a right bellend there. It's difficult for any normal person to understand what business it is of yours who holds hands with who. Sounds like you've got too much time on your hands. And I am magnanimous.
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Post by Deleted on May 21, 2015 22:38:37 GMT
Is is right that in a society that is advanced as ours people are discriminating against others because of their religion though John? There are many things in the bible and other religions that have been around for a while that are outdated because of the time that they were written. I don't think it makes sense to hold such views in an educated, progressive society. Edge Even in an advanced society (and that is a VERY questionable concept, some would argue that the world is regressing at an alarming rate) people gave a mind of their own and can hold original, individual views, not necessarily religious. The couple in this case feel victimised ,powerless and pariahs, yet mean no real harm. It seems as though they have to conform to the liberal mantra or they are ostracised and victimised in our technological global world. Personally I am fairly liberal and welcome gay rights but I have some sympathy for the bakers in this case. Up the Vale! Quite right . They have been alienated by a warped and biased society . Good decent people made to look and feel like common criminals . A disgraceful and degrading state of affairs . Can this country get any lower ?
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Post by bmstoke on May 21, 2015 22:42:07 GMT
What bothers me, is was that bakery targeted because they knew it was likely they would refuse to make the cake.
If so that is really out of order.
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Post by Deleted on May 21, 2015 22:55:56 GMT
I have values, I take people as I find them and don't judge them by what they choose to do in their sex life. You are a homophobic bigot and I find it incredible that you deny this. Quite frankly i dont give two handbags what you think and only one of us is banging the drum of hatred and insult . I have a policy of normal family values and common decency towards others . It does not extend to rude homosexual campaigners who think ir is okay to insult other people who do not subscribe to their warped sense of values , I have no plans to alter my long held beliefs and that of the vast majority of people. The future for me is my grandkids . I wont be taking them along to any gathering of queers anytime soon . That is my legitimate right and i am proud to uphold it . To be honest ,im not sure they would won't to anyway .
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Post by bmstoke on May 21, 2015 23:15:41 GMT
Quite frankly i dont give two handbags what you think and only one of us is banging the drum of hatred and insult . I have a policy of normal family values and common decency towards others . It does not extend to rude homosexual campaigners who think ir is okay to insult other people who do not subscribe to their warped sense of values , I have no plans to alter my long held beliefs and that of the vast majority of people. The future for me is my grandkids . I wont be taking them along to any gathering of queers anytime soon . That is my legitimate right and i am proud to uphold it . To be honest ,im not sure they would won't to anyway . I'm sorry to disappoint you but I'm not a homosexual campaigner, I don't care who people fuck as long as they enjoy it. I just hate bullies who try to impose their own beliefs on other people and tell them how to live their lives. If someone wants to sleep with another man it's none of your business or mine. Live and let fucking live* Except for people who like Ed Sheeran, they should be stoned to death.
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Post by bmstoke on May 21, 2015 23:24:47 GMT
I can't believe I've wasted my 1000th post on this shit.
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Post by salopstick on May 21, 2015 23:31:40 GMT
If you are a business offering a service you cannot discriminate
That's the law and it is correct, however there needs to be common sense.
Some things are at odds with people's beliefs. And it is reasonable in thought for a subject like homosexuality to be at odds with a persons christian beliefs.
This case is easy because it's only Christians. Whilst I dont have an anti Islamic agenda maybe it would have been looked at differently if it was a halal cake
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Post by Deleted on May 22, 2015 0:24:11 GMT
If you are a business offering a service you cannot discriminate That's the law and it is correct, however there needs to be common sense. Some things are at odds with people's beliefs. And it is reasonable in thought for a subject like homosexuality to be at odds with a persons christian beliefs. This case is easy because it's only Christians. Whilst I dont have an anti Islamic agenda maybe it would have been looked at differently if it was a halal cake You can discriminate if you are determined enough . It doesnt really require determination ....any old excuse will do . Too busy is the easiest . Im not particularly religious and as a result i dont dissect sexuality with any vigour or sexual slant . Where i object is when individuals use a platform to express their sexuality on the rest of society with outrageous animousity and bigoted claims without foundation or proof . It doesnt mean that i condone their behaviour or exihibionist agenda. I applaud the bakers stance however and feel that in this particular instance the law has got it horribly wrong .
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Post by Deleted on May 22, 2015 0:56:12 GMT
I can't believe I've wasted my 1000th post on this shit. Agreed ....you should have wasted it elsewhere ...
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Post by Deleted on May 22, 2015 1:04:01 GMT
You young ones should not be too hard on mumf .....he is like me , old school , he comes from a society that was British .and proud of it ...it's hard for us old 'uns to watch and accept the way in which our once great land is deteriorating to the extent that it is ....we are both booked on the next flight to the canaries tomorrow ..you lot stay and suffer ! .....assault me as you will !
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Post by stokeharry on May 22, 2015 3:54:18 GMT
Your 'strong' views are going to provoke negative reactions though mumf you must realise that. [/quote/] If i had insulted him in the same way as he did me then I would gave been banned . The fact that he is a queer apologist allows scum like this to bend the rules . He then has the audacity to call me bigoted . This inert excuse of a man needs a sense of values , and by that that i dont mean fucking about on the back back of a lorry dressed as a transvestite queen in some parade . Ive shit better than him . ! Correct. Nothing bigoted about wanting to be normal mate but according to the far left wing commie apologists if you speak out againstthe status quo then you must be a facist. I'm not Christian as such but I come from Christian heritage just like my English and Scottish ancestors so i naturally support Christianity as the main religion In this country. Homosexuality is against the bible and I support Christians in their stance against such unnatural and perverted acts. If I owned a cake shop I too would of refused to bake them a queer cake. I would also refuse a black power cake and a commie cake and any other anti English cake. I would probably make a different excuse as to not attract attention from the corrupt law but either way if I don't agree with something I won't support it. The muslims have got the bottle to stand against such filth and no body on here would say anything about them simply because they are muslims so if it's ok for muslims to stand up for what they believe in it's ok for us right wingers too. I'm not asking for permission or approval I'm telling you that's they way it is wheather the left like it or lump it
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Post by partickpotter on May 22, 2015 5:07:30 GMT
You young ones should not be too hard on mumf .....he is like me , old school , he comes from a society that was British .and proud of it ...it's hard for us old 'uns to watch and accept the way in which our once great land is deteriorating to the extent that it is ....we are both booked on the next flight to the canaries tomorrow ..you lot stay and suffer ! .....assault me as you will ! Pity for Mumf he's missed out on this... You just can't get away from it. Still, if Mumf likes barking at the moon, let him get on with it I say.
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Post by crapslinger on May 22, 2015 5:59:17 GMT
It is difficult for any normal person to understand what would possess any queer to march down any street dressed provocatively to attract attention to themselves whilst holding hands with some other hairy arsed bloke to bring to everyones attention that they're queer. What is the fucking point ? ......,unless of course you are one ? ......and i am unanimous . Ah the old if-you-don't-hate-queers-then-you-must-be-a-queer argument - well done, you've made yourself sound like a right bellend there. It's difficult for any normal person to understand what business it is of yours who holds hands with who. Sounds like you've got too much time on your hands. And I am magnanimous. Is that name of Greek origin ?, if so I can sort of see why you hold the views you do
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Post by Deleted on May 22, 2015 8:41:50 GMT
You young ones should not be too hard on mumf .....he is like me , old school , he comes from a society that was British .and proud of it ...it's hard for us old 'uns to watch and accept the way in which our once great land is deteriorating to the extent that it is ....we are both booked on the next flight to the canaries tomorrow ..you lot stay and suffer ! .....assault me as you will ! Pity for Mumf he's missed out on this... You just can't get away from it. Still, if Mumf likes barking at the moon, let him get on with it I say. I have to say Gran Canaria is not my favourite destination in the Canaries , I can't speak for mumf though
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Post by partickpotter on May 22, 2015 9:38:35 GMT
Pity for Mumf he's missed out on this... You just can't get away from it. Still, if Mumf likes barking at the moon, let him get on with it I say. I have to say Gran Canaria is not my favourite destination in the Canaries , I can't speak for mumf though Judging from his contributions to this thread I reckon he'd love it. Right up his alley so to speak.
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Post by Deleted on May 22, 2015 9:53:44 GMT
I have to say Gran Canaria is not my favourite destination in the Canaries , I can't speak for mumf though Judging from his contributions to this thread I reckon he'd love it. Right up his alley so to speak. Your words ......not mine !
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Post by Deleted on May 22, 2015 11:35:01 GMT
Anyone whose that botherd about bummers is probably a bummer them selves lol
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Post by Deleted on May 22, 2015 12:57:01 GMT
Anyone whose that botherd about bummers is probably a bummer them selves lol "lol"
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Post by Deleted on May 22, 2015 13:57:16 GMT
Anyone whose that botherd about bummers is probably a bummer them selves lol "lol" Dont see why any one wud be botherd about who other pppl want to sleep with or marry - unless their jealous of them ppl having more fun lol
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Post by Deleted on May 22, 2015 14:12:40 GMT
"lol" Dont see why any one wud be botherd about who other pppl want to sleep with or marry - unless their jealous of them ppl having more fun lol and that's a fair enough stance mate...but "Bummers"???? Seriously????
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Post by partickpotter on May 22, 2015 14:49:27 GMT
Dont see why any one wud be botherd about who other pppl want to sleep with or marry - unless their jealous of them ppl having more fun lol and that's a fair enough stance mate...but "Bummers"???? Seriously???? Indeed. The current terminology is now of course "bumder";
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Post by Deleted on May 22, 2015 15:59:02 GMT
Dont see why any one wud be botherd about who other pppl want to sleep with or marry - unless their jealous of them ppl having more fun lol and that's a fair enough stance mate...but "Bummers"???? Seriously???? there sound with it mate, i kno wloads of gays and always have good banter lol sorry if it off ends wont use 'bumers" again,
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Post by bigjohnritchie on May 28, 2015 21:39:48 GMT
Some interesting points in the Christian Institute:
The owners of Ashers Baking Company have confirmed that they will appeal, after a court ruled last week that the firm had discriminated against a customer by refusing to decorate a cake with a slogan supporting same-sex marriage.
Belfast County Court ordered Ashers to pay £500 damages for “injury to feelings” after Judge Isobel Brownlie ruled the customer had been treated “less favourably” and the bakery had breached political and sexual orientation discrimination regulations. The McArthur family, who own and run Ashers, has decided to challenge the ruling after consulting with their legal advisors. Anxiety In a statement, the family said: “After much careful and prayerful consideration given to legal advice, we have decided to appeal the judgment handed down last Tuesday. “We continue to insist that we have done nothing wrong as we have discriminated against no individual but rather acted according to what the Bible teaches regarding marriage. “As many other people have already noted, Christian beliefs seem to have been trampled over in this judgment and we believe this only has negative effects for our society. Faith “Our hope and prayer would be that an appeal will allow us and other Christians to live out their faith in Jesus Christ in every part of their lives, including their workplace.” The case followed a decision in May 2014 by Ashers to decline an order placed at its Belfast store. A gay rights activist had requested a cake featuring the Sesame Street puppets, Bert and Ernie, with the campaign slogan, ‘Support Gay Marriage’. The customer also wanted the cake to feature the logo of Belfast-based campaign group QueerSpace. Message Ashers, owned by Colin and Karen McArthur, refused to make the cake because it carried a message contrary to the family’s firmly-held Christian beliefs. They were supported by their son Daniel, the General Manager of the company. But the Equality Commission for Northern Ireland (ECNI), which publicly backs same-sex marriage, launched a civil action against the family-run bakery. Legal costs It claimed the family’s actions violated equality laws in Northern Ireland. The McArthurs are being supported by The Christian Institute which is funding their legal costs. Simon Calvert of The Christian Institute said: “I believe that most people think that this is a ruling that should be overturned. ‘Extraordinary support’ “There has been such extraordinary support from people from all walks of life who are appalled by what has happened to the McArthur family. “There is huge public support for an appeal and it is vitally important that the higher courts consider this issue.” He added: “This court decision will have dramatic consequences if it goes unchallenged. Force “The leading human rights QC, Aidan O’Neill, has already spelled out what is possible as a result of the judge ruling against Ashers. Muslim printers could be sued for refusing to print cartoons of Mohammed, and a Christian film company could be sued for refusing to produce a pornographic film.” Mr Calvert added: “The people of Northern Ireland are very clear on this matter. A ComRes poll in March 2015 found that 90 per cent of NI voters say equality laws ‘should be used to protect people from discrimination and not to force people to say something they oppose’. “In the same poll, nearly four out of five (79 per cent) believe a Muslim printer should not be taken to court for refusing to print cartoons of Mohammed. And almost three quarters (74 per cent) believe a printing company run by Roman Catholics should not be forced by legal action to produce adverts calling for abortion to be legalised. “But this is what awaits us if this judgment is allowed to stand.”
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Post by Deleted on May 28, 2015 23:55:53 GMT
What if you had worked at Kipling's and you were a Christian and you had to ice cakes with "Bummer/Gay Festival 1999" on them?
What is your get out clause then?
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