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Post by stokeharry on May 21, 2015 11:47:24 GMT
So you openly admit you'd react differently if the bakers had been Muslim rather than Christian, but then in the next breath you say you are sick of hypocrisy & 'wont budge an inch' untill everyone is treated equally? I like you, Harry you've gone back into 'funny mode' Comical Harry you could say. I prefer chemical harry
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Post by The Drunken Communist on May 21, 2015 11:53:42 GMT
Are you HONESTLY telling me you'd react the same if it was your beloved muslims that refused to bake the cake ? Yes I would. I'd find any baker, whether they be Christian or Muslim, male or female, black or white, old or young etc... To be equally as stupid to refuse to make a cake for someone. As for the rest of your post, save all that shit for when your mate, Edge comes online, it dunna work with me
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Post by partickpotter on May 21, 2015 11:54:17 GMT
Comical Harry you could say. I prefer chemical harry I believe you...
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Post by cheadlepotter on May 21, 2015 11:55:23 GMT
The links to Islam aren't surprising. If the same had occurred in a Muslim ran cake-shop no fuss would be made at all. That's what is wrong with society these days. Certain kinds of racism, sexism, ageism etc are ok but other kinds aren't. The first part is a load of shit, the second part is very true. Plenty of people with right wing views, like people on this thread, deem being straight to be 'better' than being gay. Therefore the stupid benders can fuck off & get their faggot cake made elsewhere. Those same people, though, put being gay ahead of being Muslim, so if it was a Muslim bakers those dirty Paki terrorists have no right to refuse those lovely homosexual people a right to their dream cake. Nobody is better than anyone on those things, that's the point I was trying to make. But we all know full well that is the cake shop was Muslim owned that it wouldn't have had the same media coverage, if any. That's what's wrong. It's either ok for both to refuse or make both accept, it can't be one rule for one and one for another, no matter which way round. My first post wasn't an attack on Muslims, Homosexuals, or women. It was an attack on society's behaviour and management of the issues that face it. As usual though, it seems I'll probably be labelled racist, sexist etc for not accepting certain types of racism, sexism etc.
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Post by stokeharry on May 21, 2015 11:56:57 GMT
Are you HONESTLY telling me you'd react the same if it was your beloved muslims that refused to bake the cake ? Yes I would. I'd find any baker, whether they be Christian or Muslim, male or female, black or white, old or young etc... To be equally as stupid to refuse to make a cake for someone. As for the rest of your post, save all that shit for when your mate, Edge comes online, it dunna work with me Bollocks. Your a liar commie I can see straight through it. You certainly aren't typical of a Longtonian that's for sure . Never met a longton or meir lad with your views . Sure your not from the vale end ?
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Post by stokeharry on May 21, 2015 11:57:27 GMT
I prefer chemical harry I believe you... I'm glad you believe me. Means a lot
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Post by stokeharry on May 21, 2015 11:59:48 GMT
The first part is a load of shit, the second part is very true. Plenty of people with right wing views, like people on this thread, deem being straight to be 'better' than being gay. Therefore the stupid benders can fuck off & get their faggot cake made elsewhere. Those same people, though, put being gay ahead of being Muslim, so if it was a Muslim bakers those dirty Paki terrorists have no right to refuse those lovely homosexual people a right to their dream cake. Nobody is better than anyone on those things, that's the point I was trying to make. But we all know full well that is the cake shop was Muslim owned that it wouldn't have had the same media coverage, if any. That's what's wrong. It's either ok for both to refuse or make both accept, it can't be one rule for one and one for another, no matter which way round. My first post wasn't an attack on Muslims, Homosexuals, or women. It was an attack on society's behaviour and management of the issues that face it. As usual though, it seems I'll probably be labelled racist, sexist etc for not accepting certain types of racism, sexism etc. You may as well save your breath mate. It's like talking to a group of special needs kids.
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Post by bigjohnritchie on May 21, 2015 12:00:40 GMT
As a general point, as a society we seem to be inculcated with being offended and even looking for opportunities to be offended. I think that the Gay rights movement has, quite rightly, made great advances in recent times.( Although I believe the Law in Northern Island in respect of gay marriage is not the same as in the UK). Unfortunately I think in this instance they have done more harm than good in their constant battle. Other things have come into play in this scenario, which the Law in this country , as yet, has not come to terms with...how to allow for an individual's belief and consequent working practice in areas which some find are not clear cut. The law is different, but equally unsatisfactory in America.The reality of the application of our law in respect of abortion and euthanasia is also inconsistent. If we put into the mix clearly differing cultures, such as Islam and the "West", there are clear discrepancies. Eg protecting the right to freely practice your religion, but that religion then, arguably, does not respect the rights of women in the same way that the law of the land does.
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Post by The Drunken Communist on May 21, 2015 12:04:38 GMT
Nobody is better than anyone on those things, that's the point I was trying to make. But we all know full well that is the cake shop was Muslim owned that it wouldn't have had the same media coverage, if any. That's what's wrong. It's either ok for both to refuse or make both accept, it can't be one rule for one and one for another, no matter which way round. My first post wasn't an attack on Muslims, Homosexuals, or women. It was an attack on society's behaviour and management of the issues that face it. As usual though, it seems I'll probably be labelled racist, sexist etc for not accepting certain types of racism, sexism etc. We're just going round in circles here. You're right that everyone should be treated the same blah de blah. You're right in saying it should be okay for either both to refuse or both to make it. Where you then go wrong is by this suggestion that if it was a Muslim cake shop no-one would have said anything. Do you not read this forum? Or any newspapers? Of course there would have been something said & we both know damn well that the same people 'defending' the Christians right to not make the cake, would be slagging off Muslims for not making it..... We should all either be defending both or saying how pathetic it is that they both refuse & quite clearly it should be the latter.
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Post by The Drunken Communist on May 21, 2015 12:06:44 GMT
Bollocks. Your a liar commie I can see straight through it. You certainly aren't typical of a Longtonian that's for sure . Never met a longton or meir lad with your views . Sure your not from the vale end ? I'm a Blurton lad actually .... And I know, my views are shit. I'm such a scumbag for wishing everyone would be treated the same, & for believing that there is 'good & bad' in all walks of life. I'll go & hang my head in shame
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Post by stokeharry on May 21, 2015 12:10:56 GMT
Bollocks. Your a liar commie I can see straight through it. You certainly aren't typical of a Longtonian that's for sure . Never met a longton or meir lad with your views . Sure your not from the vale end ? I'm a Blurton lad actually .... And I know, my views are shit. I'm such a scumbag for wishing everyone would be treated the same, & for believing that there is 'good & bad' in all walks of life. I'll go & hang my head in shame You know beefie? If them were your views you would be a decent bloke and hold the exact same views as me but they aren't. You think your beloved muslims and other minorities are immune from criticism but the rest of us are fair game. I respect your right to an opinion. I just don't respect the opinion itself
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Post by The Drunken Communist on May 21, 2015 12:22:19 GMT
You know beefie? If them were your views you would be a decent bloke and hold the exact same views as me but they aren't. You think your beloved muslims and other minorities are immune from criticism but the rest of us are fair game. I respect your right to an opinion. I just don't respect the opinion itself Conna say as the name rings a bell, mate. They are my views, & I don't think anyone is immune from criticism, infact I have slated scumbag Muslim terrorists on this forum time after time after time. You just choose to ignore that so as you can label me as some 'PC, liberal lefty'
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Post by cheadlepotter on May 21, 2015 12:25:07 GMT
Nobody is better than anyone on those things, that's the point I was trying to make. But we all know full well that is the cake shop was Muslim owned that it wouldn't have had the same media coverage, if any. That's what's wrong. It's either ok for both to refuse or make both accept, it can't be one rule for one and one for another, no matter which way round. My first post wasn't an attack on Muslims, Homosexuals, or women. It was an attack on society's behaviour and management of the issues that face it. As usual though, it seems I'll probably be labelled racist, sexist etc for not accepting certain types of racism, sexism etc. We're just going round in circles here. You're right that everyone should be treated the same blah de blah. You're right in saying it should be okay for either both to refuse or both to make it. Where you then go wrong is by this suggestion that if it was a Muslim cake shop no-one would have said anything. Do you not read this forum? Or any newspapers? Of course there would have been something said & we both know damn well that the same people 'defending' the Christians right to not make the cake, would be slagging off Muslims for not making it..... We should all either be defending both or saying how pathetic it is that they both refuse & quite clearly it should be the latter. If you honestly think that the media and society pay as much attention to discrimination towards a Christian or a man as it does to the opposite then you must be deaf and blind. They don't just ignore it, they take part in discriminatin! Even companies have been told that if they can't choose between a white man and a black man for a position within their firm, they have to choose the black man. How racist is that?! But it's ok, because black people can't be racist, according to society. I get told that anti-racism media is always the white being racist because thats a fair representation on the whole. So why is there always a group of kids on CBeebies containing a white, a black, a Muslim (admittedly presuming), a Chinese and a ginger? Once again, some are equal but some are more equal than others. I realise I'm digressing here but it emphasises my argument.
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Post by The Drunken Communist on May 21, 2015 12:31:02 GMT
Even companies have been told that if they can't choose between a white man and a black man for a position within their firm, they have to choose the black man. How racist is that?! Things like that are completely wrong, I've never encountered it myself, though & neither has anyone I know. I'm sure it does happen, though & it needs to be stopped... Just in the same way that I'm sure there are plenty of companies out there who do the exact opposite, that also needs to be stopped. Just pick the best man/woman for the job. ... And yes, you have gone off-topic
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Post by stokeharry on May 21, 2015 12:32:41 GMT
You know beefie? If them were your views you would be a decent bloke and hold the exact same views as me but they aren't. You think your beloved muslims and other minorities are immune from criticism but the rest of us are fair game. I respect your right to an opinion. I just don't respect the opinion itself Conna say as the name rings a bell, mate. They are my views, & I don't think anyone is immune from criticism, infact I have slated scumbag Muslim terrorists on this forum time after time after time. You just choose to ignore that so as you can label me as some 'PC, liberal lefty' Even superior folk like me can occasionally judge people or things wrongly and if that's the case with you then I apologise. It's just so typical of some posters on here that sometimes others can get tarred with the same brush
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Post by crapslinger on May 21, 2015 13:39:58 GMT
Yes I would. I'd find any baker, whether they be Christian or Muslim, male or female, black or white, old or young etc... To be equally as stupid to refuse to make a cake for someone. As for the rest of your post, save all that shit for when your mate, Edge comes online, it dunna work with me Bollocks. Your a liar commie I can see straight through it. You certainly aren't typical of a Longtonian that's for sure . Never met a longton or meir lad with your views . Sure your not from the vale end ? No he lives in Russia you know the one that is a tolerant bastion of free speech where racism is the norm.
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Post by RipRoaringPotter on May 21, 2015 16:01:35 GMT
Every day is a straight march - look around on any street and you'll see men and women kissing, holding hands and other such disgusting acts. Why do they feel the need to show this off, it makes me feel very uncomfortable. Out of interest, would you be equally as uncomfortable if there was a gobshite in the pub boasting about his sexual conquests? It shouldn't make you feel disgusted or uncomfortable. ....your head may need a wobble . These are normal people doing normal things . Sometimes one has to face up the fact that you may not be normal. I'd argue most people are a bit fucking weird in some way or another - some more obviously than others. What's so abnormal about gay people having a march? Is it any different than, for example, a trade union march or party political conference? It's just a group of people organising an event to promote a group of society, and the issues that affect them.
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Post by Deleted on May 21, 2015 16:29:02 GMT
Bet it was a fudge cake
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Post by edgepotter on May 21, 2015 16:33:03 GMT
I'm also going to throw my hat into the ring and say I'd be saying the exact same things I've said on this thread if it was a Muslim bakery refusing to bake the cake as I'm sure most people would.
When a Muslim bakery does refuse to bake a cake for gay people and it makes the news then come back to me ask my opinion but until that happens it's completely irrelevant.
Some people are clearly trying to tell other people what their views are and it's absolutely baffling.
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Post by stokeharry on May 21, 2015 17:04:24 GMT
"All animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others." It's racist if a white man discriminates against a black man, but it's ok to have black only schools, churches etc. It's sexist if a man discriminates against a woman, but it's ok for Loose Women to appear on the tele, or let's say if a female owned business had a predominantly female workforce that would be ok. It's wrong if a man hits a woman, but it's funny if a woman hits a man. It's ok for someone to say "I prefer that person because they're gay and so they're lovely" but it's not ok to say "I prefer that person because they're straight". The hypocrisy infuriates me. The links to Islam aren't surprising. If the same had occurred in a Muslim ran cake-shop no fuss would be made at all. That's what is wrong with society these days. Certain kinds of racism, sexism, ageism etc are ok but other kinds aren't. As for gay pride and the like, don't campaign for equality by segregating yourself. It's a stupid idea. I couldn't care less if someone was gay, straight, bisexual, liked neither or whatever. Why should I be told to care? We have gay people on tele, gay musical artists making millions in the music industry, don't tell me that you need acceptance. It's 2015, the vast majority don't care. Stop wasting time and resources appealing to the odd idiot. Don't complain about your beliefs being persecuted when you're belief is to persecute another's beliefs. I wouldn't bake a cake with a Port Vale badge on it with "Stoke City are shit" written on it, the same way I wouldn't expect a Vale fan to do the opposite for me. Nail on head mate. It's that kind of hypocrisy that means the left will never get anywhere. Most people can see right through it. The ones getting all upity on here wouldn't be anywhere to be seen if it was a Muslim bakers that refused on religious grounds . It's plain to see . Most of us don't need a weather man to tell us when it's pissing down and I find their double standards absolutely baffling
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Post by edgepotter on May 21, 2015 17:38:16 GMT
"All animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others." It's racist if a white man discriminates against a black man, but it's ok to have black only schools, churches etc. It's sexist if a man discriminates against a woman, but it's ok for Loose Women to appear on the tele, or let's say if a female owned business had a predominantly female workforce that would be ok. It's wrong if a man hits a woman, but it's funny if a woman hits a man. It's ok for someone to say "I prefer that person because they're gay and so they're lovely" but it's not ok to say "I prefer that person because they're straight". The hypocrisy infuriates me. The links to Islam aren't surprising. If the same had occurred in a Muslim ran cake-shop no fuss would be made at all. That's what is wrong with society these days. Certain kinds of racism, sexism, ageism etc are ok but other kinds aren't. As for gay pride and the like, don't campaign for equality by segregating yourself. It's a stupid idea. I couldn't care less if someone was gay, straight, bisexual, liked neither or whatever. Why should I be told to care? We have gay people on tele, gay musical artists making millions in the music industry, don't tell me that you need acceptance. It's 2015, the vast majority don't care. Stop wasting time and resources appealing to the odd idiot. Don't complain about your beliefs being persecuted when you're belief is to persecute another's beliefs. I wouldn't bake a cake with a Port Vale badge on it with "Stoke City are shit" written on it, the same way I wouldn't expect a Vale fan to do the opposite for me. Nail on head mate. It's that kind of hypocrisy that means the left will never get anywhere. Most people can see right through it. The ones getting all upity on here wouldn't be anywhere to be seen if it was a Muslim bakers that refused on religious grounds . It's plain to see . Most of us don't need a weather man to tell us when it's pissing down and I find their double standards absolutely baffling Genuine question. Have you seen anyone on this forum at all, from the left or right say they wouldn't be saying the same if it was muslim bakery? I'm clearly from the left side and I'd condemn the actions if it was any person refusing to serve on ANY religious grounds no matter what religion it would be from because it would all be equally ridiculous.
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Post by bigjohnritchie on May 21, 2015 19:12:35 GMT
Nail on head mate. It's that kind of hypocrisy that means the left will never get anywhere. Most people can see right through it. The ones getting all upity on here wouldn't be anywhere to be seen if it was a Muslim bakers that refused on religious grounds . It's plain to see . Most of us don't need a weather man to tell us when it's pissing down and I find their double standards absolutely baffling Genuine question. Have you seen anyone on this forum at all, from the left or right say they wouldn't be saying the same if it was muslim bakery? I'm clearly from the left side and I'd condemn the actions if it was any person refusing to serve on ANY religious grounds no matter what religion it would be from because it would all be equally ridiculous. Edge, If I may intervene, No, I don't think anyone has said that a Muslim baker would be treated any differently and I believe that you would not treat them differently , as you say.But I do think that there is a problem when a small family business person holds sincere particular views which,despite the law, feel that they must stick to them. Where is the 'tolerance 'for their difference? I am quite a simple pragmatist. On this occasion , IMHO, the campaigner could simply have gone elsewhere. Accepting the baker's decision isn't an almighty world changing event.Ok I understand the argument that discrimination should always be challenged but I think we are in an age where those who are 'discriminated ' against are crusading and getting things out of proportion. We are a tolerant country in general. ...and that may prove to be a fault.On this particular case the bakers 'seem' to me like genuine people, and the campaigners 'seem' a bit 'agressive', not that I actually know them of course. As an aside it is interesting that Orthodox Judaism, Evangelical Christianity and Islam are all uneasy with the idea of gay marriage.. ....a commonality not normally found.
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Post by Deleted on May 21, 2015 19:14:54 GMT
It shouldn't make you feel disgusted or uncomfortable. ....your head may need a wobble . These are normal people doing normal things . Sometimes one has to face up the fact that you may not be normal. I'd argue most people are a bit fucking weird in some way or another - some more obviously than others. What's so abnormal about gay people having a march? Is it any different than, for example, a trade union march or party political conference? It's just a group of people organising an event to promote a group of society, and the issues that affect them. It is difficult for any normal person to understand what would possess any queer to march down any street dressed provocatively to attract attention to themselves whilst holding hands with some other hairy arsed bloke to bring to everyones attention that they're queer. What is the fucking point ? ......,unless of course you are one ? ......and i am unanimous .
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Post by bmstoke on May 21, 2015 19:46:17 GMT
I'd argue most people are a bit fucking weird in some way or another - some more obviously than others. What's so abnormal about gay people having a march? Is it any different than, for example, a trade union march or party political conference? It's just a group of people organising an event to promote a group of society, and the issues that affect them. It is difficult for any normal person to understand what would possess any queer to march down any street dressed provocatively to attract attention to themselves whilst holding hands with some other hairy arsed bloke to bring to everyones attention that they're queer. What is the fucking point ? ......,unless of course you are one ? ......and i am unanimous . You seem to have a massive problem with homosexuals. Why should it bother you what 2 men,2 women or a man and woman get up to in their bedroom. Whatever floats your boat and as long as get enough of what floats mine I couldn't give a fuck what other people do.
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Post by bigjohnritchie on May 21, 2015 19:52:56 GMT
It is difficult for any normal person to understand what would possess any queer to march down any street dressed provocatively to attract attention to themselves whilst holding hands with some other hairy arsed bloke to bring to everyones attention that they're queer. What is the fucking point ? ......,unless of course you are one ? ......and i am unanimous . You seem to have a massive problem with homosexuals. Why should it bother you what 2 men,2 women or a man and woman get up to in their bedroom. Whatever floats your boat and as long as get enough of what floats mine I couldn't give a fuck what other people do. I think Mumf's point is more to do what is done in public, not privately. I find the Gay pride marches very entertaining, creative and interesting but I certainly understand where Mumf is coming from, and my guess would be that he is in a majority in the UK population..
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Post by bmstoke on May 21, 2015 19:58:47 GMT
You seem to have a massive problem with homosexuals. Why should it bother you what 2 men,2 women or a man and woman get up to in their bedroom. Whatever floats your boat and as long as get enough of what floats mine I couldn't give a fuck what other people do. I think Mumf's point is more to do what is done in public, not privately. I find the Gay pride marches very entertaining, creative and interesting but I certainly understand where Mumf is coming from, and my guess would be that he is in a majority in the UK population.. I honestly couldn't give a shit, sex is supposed to be fun so as as long as everyone involved is consenting why should anyone give a shit. I don't blame them for celebrating their lifestyle and getting the better of religious zealots and bigoted imbeciles like Mumf.
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Post by bigjohnritchie on May 21, 2015 20:08:54 GMT
I think Mumf's point is more to do what is done in public, not privately. I find the Gay pride marches very entertaining, creative and interesting but I certainly understand where Mumf is coming from, and my guess would be that he is in a majority in the UK population.. I honestly couldn't give a shit, sex is supposed to be fun so as as long as everyone involved is consenting why should anyone give a shit. I don't blame them for celebrating their lifestyle and getting the better of religious zealots and bigoted imbeciles like Mumf. Okay BM, calm down. I agree people can do what they want in private, as long as they consent.I can understand others wondering why gay people need to parade theur sexuality, in many ways it can be seen as them who are drawing attention to the differences, the majority non-gay community may not be bothered in the slightest.
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Post by bmstoke on May 21, 2015 20:25:57 GMT
I honestly couldn't give a shit, sex is supposed to be fun so as as long as everyone involved is consenting why should anyone give a shit. I don't blame them for celebrating their lifestyle and getting the better of religious zealots and bigoted imbeciles like Mumf. Okay BM, calm down. I agree people can do what they want in private, as long as they consent.I can understand others wondering why gay people need to parade theur sexuality, in many ways it can be seen as them who are drawing attention to the differences, the majority non-gay community may not be bothered in the slightest. It just boils my piss when people want to demonize a particular section of society for something which affects them not one jot, especially when they bring their ridiculous religious bigotry into it. I'm old enough to remember when queer bashing was rife and pretty much encouraged by the police, so I don't blame them for parading and saying fuck you, we won. If it upsets Mumf and the fish fiddler,all the better.
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Post by Deleted on May 21, 2015 20:34:20 GMT
I think Mumf's point is more to do what is done in public, not privately. I find the Gay pride marches very entertaining, creative and interesting but I certainly understand where Mumf is coming from, and my guess would be that he is in a majority in the UK population.. I honestly couldn't give a shit, sex is supposed to be fun so as as long as everyone involved is consenting why should anyone give a shit. I don't blame them for celebrating their lifestyle and getting the better of religious zealots and bigoted imbeciles like Mumf. No man tells me what to think or what to say . But don't waste your time and mine hurling insults in the defence of queer exhibitionists . It weakens your defence. For all you know i may have two degree firsts.....
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Post by bmstoke on May 21, 2015 20:37:52 GMT
I honestly couldn't give a shit, sex is supposed to be fun so as as long as everyone involved is consenting why should anyone give a shit. I don't blame them for celebrating their lifestyle and getting the better of religious zealots and bigoted imbeciles like Mumf. No man tells me what to think or what to say . But don't waste your time and mine hurling insults in the defence of queer exhibitionists . It weakens your defence. For all you know i may have two degree firsts..... You could have a brain the size of a planet, you're still a bigoted dickhead.
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