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Post by tijuanabrass on Apr 3, 2015 10:51:23 GMT
I know that Sir Bobby played for the shit as well but I'm going to be extremely disappointed when he loses his record to that spanner-faced gerontophile. As usual the old Trafford loving media can't wait for King Wayne to cement his legendary status. It says so much about the modern game that an international under achiever can wriggle his way into the record books like this.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Apr 3, 2015 10:58:17 GMT
Tbf to Rooney he's done better than most of the "superstars" have done for England. But like them all in the tournaments he's surprisingly a shirker!
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Post by adamsson on Apr 3, 2015 11:13:28 GMT
He won't have it for long anyway Harry Kane will catch up in a few years.
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Post by Cast no shadow on Apr 3, 2015 11:23:26 GMT
People will realise how good rooney is/was in 20 years time
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Post by superscfc on Apr 3, 2015 11:35:56 GMT
Wayne Rooney is a brilliant player, gets a lot of unfair criticism.
You don't become Manchester United and England top goalscorer and possibly the most capped England player in history if you're not mint
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Post by StokieBoy31 on Apr 3, 2015 11:38:38 GMT
People will realise how good rooney is/was in 20 years time This
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Post by tijuanabrass on Apr 3, 2015 11:51:04 GMT
People will realise how good rooney is/was in 20 years time Sir Wayne, Lord Croxteth. Shiver.
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Post by lowlands on Apr 3, 2015 12:10:06 GMT
2 points here:
1. Charlton was a midfield player whereas Rooney is a Striker 2. Charltons goals came against low level teams such as Germany, France, Holland, Portugal, Spain, Russia, Argentina, Scotland etc. whereas Rooneys goals were against stiff opposition such as Lichtenstein, Lithuania, Moldova, Malta, San Marino. Enough said really, oh and Charlton has won the World Cup whereas Rooney never will not especially while Hodgson is manager
Rooney in comparison isn't good enough to lace Bobby Charltons Boots
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Post by StokieAsh13 on Apr 3, 2015 12:12:12 GMT
I know that Sir Bobby played for the shit as well but I'm going to be extremely disappointed when he loses his record to that spanner-faced gerontophile. As usual the old Trafford loving media can't wait for King Wayne to cement his legendary status. It says so much about the modern game that an international under achiever can wriggle his way into the record books like this. Does he not deserve to become the leading scorer at United either then? He's scored the goals and he's been a bloody good player. I'll agree in tournaments he's disappointed, however he gets criticised far to much.
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Post by StokieAsh13 on Apr 3, 2015 12:14:21 GMT
2 points here: 1. Charlton was a midfield player whereas Rooney is a Striker 2. Charltons goals came against low level teams such as Germany, France, Holland, Portugal, Spain, Russia, Argentina, Scotland etc. whereas Rooneys goals were against stiff opposition such as Lichtenstein, Lithuania, Moldova, Malta, San Marino. Enough said really, oh and Charlton has won the World Cup whereas Rooney never will not especially while Hodgson is manager Rooney in comparison isn't good enough to lace Bobby Charltons Boots Really ?? Rooney has played the majority of his career as a number 10! Scoring that many goals doesn't just happen by luck.
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Post by mattythestokie on Apr 3, 2015 12:21:00 GMT
WILL BE - Top goalscorer for England with just 1 World Cup goal, soon enough. That's what annoys me.
Yes he's a good player, but the majority of his goals have been against poor teams.
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Post by upthefud on Apr 3, 2015 12:22:22 GMT
He's a good player but past his best, another to never live up to the hype in an England shirt. As has been said there's a lot more international fixtures these days and a lot against very poor sides. I suspect Shrewsbury Town would do well against Lithuania. The fact is he's set to become our record international goal scorer but in an all time Englamd XI the majority wouldn't have him near the team.
In time his record will mask a lot of poor performances and disappointment.
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Post by chiefdelilah on Apr 3, 2015 12:32:46 GMT
2 points here: 1. Charlton was a midfield player whereas Rooney is a Striker 2. Charltons goals came against low level teams such as Germany, France, Holland, Portugal, Spain, Russia, Argentina, Scotland etc. whereas Rooneys goals were against stiff opposition such as Lichtenstein, Lithuania, Moldova, Malta, San Marino. Enough said really, oh and Charlton has won the World Cup whereas Rooney never will not especially while Hodgson is manager Rooney in comparison isn't good enough to lace Bobby Charltons Boots Not convinced that's desperately fair. Charlton hat tricks against woeful opposition account for a fair few of his goals. Equally Rooney has goals against the likes of Brazil, Argentina and Holland.
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Post by passtheoatcakes on Apr 3, 2015 12:46:28 GMT
2 points here: 1. Charlton was a midfield player whereas Rooney is a Striker 2. Charltons goals came against low level teams such as Germany, France, Holland, Portugal, Spain, Russia, Argentina, Scotland etc. whereas Rooneys goals were against stiff opposition such as Lichtenstein, Lithuania, Moldova, Malta, San Marino. Enough said really, oh and Charlton has won the World Cup whereas Rooney never will not especially while Hodgson is manager Rooney in comparison isn't good enough to lace Bobby Charltons Boots Not convinced that's desperately fair. Charlton hat tricks against woeful opposition account for a fair few of his goals. Equally Rooney has goals against the likes of Brazil, Argentina and Holland. I think lowlands is on the money with this. I will eat my hat and gloves if Rooney ever wins a trophy with England. Bobby Charlton walked away from the plane crash that decimated a generation of gifted young players and proceeded to be the engine room of a really decent English side. I am one of the lucky ones, as I saw us lift the Jules Rimet in 66; partly why I now consider Hodgson to be a joke and question Rooney's motivation all day long, he is coining it and I don't think he cares that much. Obviously my view, give me Sir Bobby any day of the week.
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Post by manumasochist on Apr 3, 2015 12:49:16 GMT
Rooney may break the record, but he hasn't played great for England. In South Africa, he was super shit, but then, so were they all.
Him reaching Charlton's record tells me one thing; the record doesn't mean anything. Internationals play far more games than back then. I think a better record would be a goals to games ratio, after all, if one player gets to play 50 games and another gets to play 100, he's bound to score more goals (depending on what position he plays, of course).
Another thing people don't consider is the competition. An international friendly against the Faroe Islands, verses a World cup game against Germany and the value of those goals scored are very different, especially when the opposition are so poor, you rack up 3 or 4 goals in an easy game.
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Post by chiefdelilah on Apr 3, 2015 12:51:41 GMT
Not convinced that's desperately fair. Charlton hat tricks against woeful opposition account for a fair few of his goals. Equally Rooney has goals against the likes of Brazil, Argentina and Holland. I think lowlands is on the money with this. I will eat my hat and gloves if Rooney ever wins a trophy with England. Bobby Charlton walked away from the plane crash that decimated a generation of gifted young players and proceeded to be the engine room of a really decent English side. I am one of the lucky ones, as I saw us lift the Jules Rimet in 66; partly why I now consider Hodgson to be a joke and question Rooney's motivation all day long, he is coining it and I don't think he cares that much. Obviously my view, give me Sir Bobby any day of the week. I'm not saying Rooney's 'better' and in many ways comparing two such radically different eras is daft to begin with. But the notion that Charlton's goals were all against world beaters and Rooney's were all against no-marks doesn't actually hold up, I don't think.
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Post by geoff321 on Apr 3, 2015 13:04:06 GMT
I don't think it's a question of comparing two eras, rather who made the biggest impact in the era they played. In 1966 Bobby Charlton was not only in the winning England World Cup team but won the Ballon d'Or ahead of Eusebio and Beckenbauer.
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Post by passtheoatcakes on Apr 3, 2015 13:05:27 GMT
I think lowlands is on the money with this. I will eat my hat and gloves if Rooney ever wins a trophy with England. Bobby Charlton walked away from the plane crash that decimated a generation of gifted young players and proceeded to be the engine room of a really decent English side. I am one of the lucky ones, as I saw us lift the Jules Rimet in 66; partly why I now consider Hodgson to be a joke and question Rooney's motivation all day long, he is coining it and I don't think he cares that much. Obviously my view, give me Sir Bobby any day of the week. I'm not saying Rooney's 'better' and in many ways comparing two such radically different eras is daft to begin with. But the notion that Charlton's goals were all against world beaters and Rooney's were all against no-marks doesn't actually hold up, I don't think. Fair point about the opposition, but I do think it's relevant in terms of achievement that one player actually won the World Cup against difficult opposition, the other is never likely to. Nothing to do with eras, all to do with the present manager and the player's motivation. I think Rooney doesn't care that much about where he is heading with his career, the money just keeps rolling into his bank account, he is alright jack.
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Post by Mint Berry Barks on Apr 3, 2015 13:13:11 GMT
I'm not saying Rooney's 'better' and in many ways comparing two such radically different eras is daft to begin with. But the notion that Charlton's goals were all against world beaters and Rooney's were all against no-marks doesn't actually hold up, I don't think. Fair point about the opposition, but I do think it's relevant in terms of achievement that one player actually won the World Cup against difficult opposition, the other is never likely to. Nothing to do with eras, all to do with the present manager and the player's motivation. I think Rooney doesn't care that much about where he is heading with his career, the money just keeps rolling into his bank account, he is alright jack. Really? Every time I've watched Rooney play, whether it be for club or country, one thing that he's always done is put in 100% effort. He's fluffed his lines at international tournaments (like pretty much every England player ever) but he's never not put the effort in. If anything, there are times where he tries too hard and goes chasing the ball in his own half to make something happen. I can only go by what I see in his interviews but he seems to have developed into a fairly well spoken guy who seems proud of his roles at The Shit and England, and he's never really in the media for doing stupid shit other than not being able to take a punch.
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Post by chiefdelilah on Apr 3, 2015 13:26:46 GMT
I'm not saying Rooney's 'better' and in many ways comparing two such radically different eras is daft to begin with. But the notion that Charlton's goals were all against world beaters and Rooney's were all against no-marks doesn't actually hold up, I don't think. Fair point about the opposition, but I do think it's relevant in terms of achievement that one player actually won the World Cup against difficult opposition, the other is never likely to. Nothing to do with eras, all to do with the present manager and the player's motivation. I think Rooney doesn't care that much about where he is heading with his career, the money just keeps rolling into his bank account, he is alright jack. I think that's very unfair and untrue. Money clearly is a big motivator and he's clearly a bit of a plank but it's also clear he cares - it shows in his game even in the deficiencies like his ego and temperament on the pitch. I wonder if we bull up winning the world. cup a bit too much - brilliant achievement but we did get the rub of the green at times and we'd done nothing before and have done nothing since. It's not our natural place or right to be winning these competitions - though we could obviously be doing better than we've done in recent tournaments.
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Post by chiefdelilah on Apr 3, 2015 13:27:19 GMT
I don't think it's a question of comparing two eras, rather who made the biggest impact in the era they played. In 1966 Bobby Charlton was not only in the winning England World Cup team but won the Ballon d'Or ahead of Eusebio and Beckenbauer. Where would you put Michael Owen in the pantheon Geoff?
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Post by mywaydesolzan on Apr 3, 2015 13:32:06 GMT
I don't think it's a question of comparing two eras, rather who made the biggest impact in the era they played. In 1966 Bobby Charlton was not only in the winning England World Cup team but won the Ballon d'Or ahead of Eusebio and Beckenbauer. Where would you put Michael Owen in the pantheon Geoff? Well below Charlton for the reasons stated.
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Post by chiefdelilah on Apr 3, 2015 13:35:35 GMT
Where would you put Michael Owen in the pantheon Geoff? Well below Charlton for the reasons stated. 40 goals and a Ballon D'Or so by the criteria he cites...
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Post by geoff321 on Apr 3, 2015 13:36:51 GMT
Michael Owen rob is a difficult player to give a cast iron opinion about, great goalscorer and won the Ballon d'Or. For me Charlton was one of the true great English players, I'm not sure you could put Owen in that category.
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Post by chiefdelilah on Apr 3, 2015 13:40:19 GMT
Michael Owen rob is a difficult player to give a cast iron opinion about, great goalscorer and won the Ballon d'Or. For me Charlton was one of the true great English players, I'm not sure you could put Owen in that category. Would you put him above Rooney?
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Post by passtheoatcakes on Apr 3, 2015 13:40:46 GMT
Fair point about the opposition, but I do think it's relevant in terms of achievement that one player actually won the World Cup against difficult opposition, the other is never likely to. Nothing to do with eras, all to do with the present manager and the player's motivation. I think Rooney doesn't care that much about where he is heading with his career, the money just keeps rolling into his bank account, he is alright jack. I think that's very unfair and untrue. Money clearly is a big motivator and he's clearly a bit of a plank but it's also clear he cares - it shows in his game even in the deficiencies like his ego and temperament on the pitch. I wonder if we bull up winning the world. cup a bit too much - brilliant achievement but we did get the rub of the green at times and we'd done nothing before and have done nothing since. It's not our natural place or right to be winning these competitions - though we could obviously be doing better than we've done in recent tournaments. Maybe unfair but my opinion of an overhyped and overpaid waynetta that's all. Don't think the team of 66 just had 'the rub of the green'(!), we also did really well in 1970 and came close to getting into the final if memory serves me right. 'Could be doing better' is a massive understatement in my view, we have highly paid professional players that should be doing way better on the International stage a la Germany. A shake up is in order and start by removing Woy.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 3, 2015 13:41:30 GMT
People will realise how good rooney is/was in 20 years time I realise how good he is now. Some people seem to think he's better than he is though. He definitely isn't "world class". He's not in the bracket of Ronaldo or Messi, but then again, nobody is. He's not even in the next bracket either though. The likes of Aguero, Hazard, Iniesta, Suarez, Alonso, Muller, Robben - they're all a step above, and all produce the goods on a more consistent basis. Rooney has just been a very good player, for a very long time, and deserves credit for that. He had the potential to be special though, and never quite fulfilled it.
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Post by mywaydesolzan on Apr 3, 2015 13:45:30 GMT
Well below Charlton for the reasons stated. 40 goals and a Ballon D'Or so by the criteria he cites... I believe there was a mark up for the World Cup victory. On the games played ratio, there has to be a case for Jimmy Greaves. Did he actually receive a medal in '66?
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Post by chiefdelilah on Apr 3, 2015 13:46:33 GMT
I think that's very unfair and untrue. Money clearly is a big motivator and he's clearly a bit of a plank but it's also clear he cares - it shows in his game even in the deficiencies like his ego and temperament on the pitch. I wonder if we bull up winning the world. cup a bit too much - brilliant achievement but we did get the rub of the green at times and we'd done nothing before and have done nothing since. It's not our natural place or right to be winning these competitions - though we could obviously be doing better than we've done in recent tournaments. Maybe unfair but my opinion of an overhyped and overpaid waynetta that's all. Don't think the team of 66 just had 'the rub of the green'(!), we also did really well in 1970 and came close to getting into the final if memory serves me right. 'Could be doing better' is a massive understatement in my view, we have highly paid professional players that should be doing way better on the International stage a la Germany. A shake up is in order and start by removing Woy. Germany have pretty much always been better than us for the last 40 years or so. We've rarely competed at the business end of tournaments. I think we did have the rub of the green to an extent in '66. We were very good and it's an amazing achievement of which we're rightly proud, but we got some generous decisions as the host nation, like many host nations do. In 70 we didn't so much nearly reach the final as lose in the quarter finals. We had probably our best ever team and still lost to the only two decent sides we played.
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Post by thfc67 on Apr 3, 2015 13:47:20 GMT
At the risk of sounding biased; by far the best England goal scorer in modern times is Jimmy Greaves. 44 goals in 54 games. Rooney has 47 in 103, Charlton scored 49 in 106 and Lineker 48 in 80.
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