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Post by dieguito88 on Feb 16, 2015 16:22:59 GMT
People are slatying a defender for his first bad match (Wollscheid) with 10 mans and a completely different partners (Wilkinson - N'Zonzi - Bardsley). Give the lad Times to Settle in. This could requiered even some months for me. He played very well in the last games for me.
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Post by Davef on Feb 16, 2015 16:23:32 GMT
Apologies. One game then, at Stamford Bridge, in which Ryan didn't start and we had to replace our goalkeeper as well after half an hour. Incidentally, Chelsea won the league that season and scored 103 goals, including 7 in a game three times and 8 once. And incidentally, that was Ryan Shawcross's very first appearance in a Stoke City shirt since the Aaron Ramsey incident. What about the five and six goal references laughing boy?
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Post by lastoftheldk on Feb 16, 2015 16:30:12 GMT
And incidentally, that was Ryan Shawcross's very first appearance in a Stoke City shirt since the Aaron Ramsey incident. What about the five and six goal references laughing boy? 5.0 to a terrible Bolton side that got relegated, selective memory boy,,
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Post by Davef on Feb 16, 2015 16:31:50 GMT
And incidentally, that was Ryan Shawcross's very first appearance in a Stoke City shirt since the Aaron Ramsey incident. What about the five and six goal references laughing boy? 5.0 to a terrible Bolton side that got relegated, selective memory boy,, Check your facts.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 16, 2015 16:32:10 GMT
People REALLY need to start giving Wollscheid a chance. The bloke has been well and truly chucked in the deepend. I don't think Hughes planned to have used him as a main starter for us when he signed him, as with most foreign signings you are best to sometimes bring them in gradually, to help them acclimatise to the Prem. Wollscheid wasn't given that luxury, and since he has joined have we actually seen him play alongside anything but a threadbare, makeshift defence? I really hope the boy comes good as he definitely has the makings of a top City player, just need a little patience as Take That would say.. Thing is mate if he's that slow then he will soon be found out in the Premiership, the majority of teams have players with pace, Shawcross isn't the quickest so we can't have two centre halfs playing that have no pace, we'd be asking for trouble. If we intend to progress our game the next step would be to have better players so we can press high up the pitch and try to play the game in the opposistion half. A slow defence won't be able to achieve this. imo the step we need to take is bring back huth and in the summer find a quality footballing holding midfield player until we can find the centre half with pace and passing ability which is difficult enough in itself. Any team in the Premiership with a slow defence are sitting ducks if you ask me unless you plan on playing deep. You think Huth is a cure for a slow defence ? That's laughable.As good a defender as he was/is he certainly ain't quick on the floor. But I do agree with your last point.The thing is forwards are nearly always quicker than defenders in terms of raw pace.Therefore you need defenders who can anticipate the danger before it happens.Don't write Wolf off just yet
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Post by lastoftheldk on Feb 16, 2015 16:39:32 GMT
5.0 to a terrible Bolton side that got relegated, selective memory boy,, Check your facts. Huth played Plus a few 4s against arsenal, man shit, Sunderland, Liverpool 5
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Post by Davef on Feb 16, 2015 16:46:48 GMT
Huth played Plus a few 4s against arsenal, man shit, Sunderland, Liverpool 5 Not alongside Shawcross he didn't. "Huth/Shawcross partnership". Shawcross and Huth wasn't the partnership when lost to Liverpool last season. Huth played right back in the 4-0 defeat at Sunderland and he wasn't even at the club when we lost 4-1 at Arsenal. They have been a magnificent pairing for this club.
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Post by lastoftheldk on Feb 16, 2015 16:52:58 GMT
Huth played Plus a few 4s against arsenal, man shit, Sunderland, Liverpool 5 Not alongside Shawcross he didn't. "Huth/Shawcross partnership". Shawcross and Huth wasn't the partnership when lost to Liverpool last season. Huth played right back in the 4-0 defeat at Sunderland and he wasn't even at the club when we lost 4-1 at Arsenal. They have been a magnificent pairing for this club. yes they have been good for my club Stoke
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Post by davejohnno1 on Feb 16, 2015 16:56:57 GMT
Robert huth was not slow and nor is Ryan.
A little cumbersome on the turn maybe ( they're both big units after all) but in a straight run both are/were quick.
Gareth Southgate, his former manager and playing colleague even commented on how quick huth was when justifying TP's unfathomable decision to play him at right back during a game in which he was commentating on.
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Post by davejohnno1 on Feb 16, 2015 17:26:45 GMT
Anyway agree to disagree as it will never happen, like the other guy says Hughes like ball playing centre backs. I don't like ball playing centre halves. First and foremost I want my centre halves to be hard as nails defensively. Anything else is a bonus.
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Post by slpmarc on Feb 16, 2015 17:33:10 GMT
Anyway agree to disagree as it will never happen, like the other guy says Hughes like ball playing centre backs. I don't like ball playing centre halves. First and foremost I want my centre halves to be hard as nails defensively. Anything else is a bonus. It will also never happen as Huth cannot play week in week out due to his troublesome knee. Those who think he is better than Muniesa or Wollschied are basing this on his past performances. Leicester will find out on how much his knee has affected his performances while he is on loan. Stoke have done the good thing letting some other club to risk him having bad games to try and see if continuous play will inflame his knee again. If he does then we lost nothing
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Post by mywaydesolzan on Feb 16, 2015 17:34:48 GMT
Anyway agree to disagree as it will never happen, like the other guy says Hughes like ball playing centre backs. I don't like ball playing centre halves. First and foremost I want my centre halves to be hard as nails defensively. Anything else is a bonus. I personally believe that both players must have different strengths. One 'hard as nails', one who plays the ball out, they need to compliment each other. Shawcross and Muniesa have so much potential.
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Post by elsidibe on Feb 16, 2015 18:06:12 GMT
A ball-playing centre half is all well and good but any centre half needs to actually understand the basics of defending as a bare naked minimum. As it stands, I don't see that anyone who's stepped into Huth's boots since late 2013 has been fit to lace them.
Surprisingly given his diminutive stature, Muniesa has come closest to providing that warm happy feeling of security that Huth used to bring. But Hughes appears to favour the Idiotchild instead - who has all of Huth's sluggishness without any of his rugged charm, tactical/positional nous or amusing/cunning violent assaults.
Hughes has treated the big lad very poorly and needs to make amends. ASAP.
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Post by Miles Offside on Feb 16, 2015 18:23:51 GMT
I like Shawcross and Muniesa. Not sure I have seen a bad game featuring this pairing I like Muniesa, but not at centre-back. A couple of his clearing headers against Blackburn were awful, and he nearly always gets beaten in the air against a big striker. The lad needs to be given a run out in midfield. He's good at winning the ball on the ground, great technique, great attitude and can strike a ball as well as any of our forward players. As Huth's away for the rest of the season I'd go for Wilson partnering Ryan as the least worse option. If Rob comes back from Leicester playing like his old self, then I'd have him back alongside Ryan like a shot. Otherwise, unless Wollscheid suddenly shows some consistent good form, then we must be in the market for a new CB in the summer.
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Post by 2004 on Feb 16, 2015 18:25:54 GMT
Shawcross and Muniesa please
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Post by Deleted on Feb 16, 2015 18:31:19 GMT
I like Shawcross and Muniesa. Not sure I have seen a bad game featuring this pairing I like Muniesa, but not at centre-back. A couple of his clearing headers against Blackburn were awful, and he nearly always gets beaten in the air against a big striker. The lad needs to be given a run out in midfield. He's good at winning the ball on the ground, great technique, great attitude and can strike a ball as well as any of our forward players. As Huth's away for the rest of the season I'd go for Wilson partnering Ryan as the least worse option. If Rob comes back from Leicester playing like his old self, then I'd have him back alongside Ryan like a shot. Otherwise, unless Wollscheid suddenly shows some consistent good form, then we must be in the market for a new CB in the summer. Muniesa has been immense in the air previously, his long term future will be at centre half I'm almost certain of that (although I like any believe he has the attributes to be a good holding midfielder) Your comment about Muniesa at Blackburn, and your comment about Wolly not being 'consistent' highlights my biggest issue with so many on the oatcake. People just judge off the last performance of a given player. To judge defender in the makeshift defence on Saturday is just ridiculous.
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Post by davejohnno1 on Feb 16, 2015 18:31:25 GMT
I don't like ball playing centre halves. First and foremost I want my centre halves to be hard as nails defensively. Anything else is a bonus. It will also never happen as Huth cannot play week in week out due to his troublesome knee. Those who think he is better than Muniesa or Wollschied are basing this on his past performances. Leicester will find out on how much his knee has affected his performances while he is on loan. Stoke have done the good thing letting some other club to risk him having bad games to try and see if continuous play will inflame his knee again. If he does then we lost nothing I don't think I've said anything other than that have I?
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Post by timbo1988 on Feb 16, 2015 18:33:15 GMT
I don't like ball playing centre halves. First and foremost I want my centre halves to be hard as nails defensively. Anything else is a bonus. It will also never happen as Huth cannot play week in week out due to his troublesome knee. Those who think he is better than Muniesa or Wollschied are basing this on his past performances. Leicester will find out on how much his knee has affected his performances while he is on loan. Stoke have done the good thing letting some other club to risk him having bad games to try and see if continuous play will inflame his knee again. If he does then we lost nothing And if he proves can overcome the knee injury? and he plays well week in week out for Leicester? Will we welcome him back next season or still sell him?
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Post by Miles Offside on Feb 16, 2015 18:50:29 GMT
I like Muniesa, but not at centre-back. A couple of his clearing headers against Blackburn were awful, and he nearly always gets beaten in the air against a big striker. The lad needs to be given a run out in midfield. He's good at winning the ball on the ground, great technique, great attitude and can strike a ball as well as any of our forward players. As Huth's away for the rest of the season I'd go for Wilson partnering Ryan as the least worse option. If Rob comes back from Leicester playing like his old self, then I'd have him back alongside Ryan like a shot. Otherwise, unless Wollscheid suddenly shows some consistent good form, then we must be in the market for a new CB in the summer. Muniesa has been immense in the air previously, his long term future will be at centre half I'm almost certain of that (although I like any believe he has the attributes to be a good holding midfielder) Your comment about Muniesa at Blackburn, and your comment about Wolly not being 'consistent' highlights my biggest issue with so many on the oatcake. People just judge off the last performance of a given player. To judge defender in the makeshift defence on Saturday is just ridiculous. I've said on here several times, long before the Blackburn game, that I don't like Muniesa at CB. I just used the Blackburn game to illustrate how bad a couple of his clearing headers were. It's my opinion that he looks better suited to playing in midfield. Wollscheid hasn't been consistent over the few games he's played. He was MOTM a couple of weeks ago and awful on Saturday. That's why he needs to show some consistent form. If he does, he might be worth signing. If not, send him back and look elsewhere.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 16, 2015 19:06:41 GMT
Muniesa has been immense in the air previously, his long term future will be at centre half I'm almost certain of that (although I like any believe he has the attributes to be a good holding midfielder) Your comment about Muniesa at Blackburn, and your comment about Wolly not being 'consistent' highlights my biggest issue with so many on the oatcake. People just judge off the last performance of a given player. To judge defender in the makeshift defence on Saturday is just ridiculous. I've said on here several times, long before the Blackburn game, that I don't like Muniesa at CB. I just used the Blackburn game to illustrate how bad a couple of his clearing headers were. It's my opinion that he looks better suited to playing in midfield. Wollscheid hasn't been consistent over the few games he's played. He was MOTM a couple of weeks ago and awful on Saturday. That's why he needs to show some consistent form. If he does, he might be worth signing. If not, send him back and look elsewhere. Tell me another game where he was bad in the air then? The dual between him and Aguero is all I can think of off the top of my head but at the time I believed he was fouled. Tell me other games and specific times that Muniesa has given you a cause to think he isn't a good centre half. I'd agree on Wolly except I don't think you can yet expect him to be consistent yet
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Post by Billybigbollox on Feb 16, 2015 19:07:13 GMT
Huth will not pull a Stoke shirt on again from what I've heard I think you're right Muttley. Unfortunately.
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Post by wickerman on Feb 16, 2015 19:25:58 GMT
I don't like ball playing centre halves. First and foremost I want my centre halves to be hard as nails defensively. Anything else is a bonus. It will also never happen as Huth cannot play week in week out due to his troublesome knee. Those who think he is better than Muniesa or Wollschied are basing this on his past performances. Leicester will find out on how much his knee has affected his performances while he is on loan. Stoke have done the good thing letting some other club to risk him having bad games to try and see if continuous play will inflame his knee again. If he does then we lost nothing You keep trotting this out ...how do you know? This condition doesn't show up in a medical? Can you answer please.
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Post by numpty40 on Feb 16, 2015 19:26:40 GMT
[/quote]Muniesa seems to pick up knocks quite easily, you need a settled back 2 not an injury prone central defender, imo[/quote]
This is the major concern with Muni, he does seem a little fragile. Him and Ryan are in my opinion the best two central defenders at the club and they complement each other. Ryan keeps a rein on Muni's more ambitious sorties forward and Muni seems to read Ryan well. Unfortunately Muni doesn't seem to be able to manage a run of more than 3 games without a hamstring or groin strain and that is something the club will have to look at in the summer. Wolly certainly doesn't look the part, Wilson and Cameron clearly aren't, Huth looks on his way out and the fact that Hughes put Zonz at centre back on Saturday rather than risk a natural centre back seems to indicate Tex is far from ready to step up. A new centre back is needed in the summer!
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Post by wickerman on Feb 22, 2015 19:16:41 GMT
It will also never happen as Huth cannot play week in week out due to his troublesome knee. Those who think he is better than Muniesa or Wollschied are basing this on his past performances. Leicester will find out on how much his knee has affected his performances while he is on loan. Stoke have done the good thing letting some other club to risk him having bad games to try and see if continuous play will inflame his knee again. If he does then we lost nothing You keep trotting this out ...how do you know? This condition doesn't show up in a medical? Can you answer please. That dodgy knee seems to be holding together... Got any more insights??
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Post by robboleek on Feb 22, 2015 19:27:43 GMT
Have to say Huth looked every bit a premier league defender in that game today.....
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Post by miggo on Feb 22, 2015 19:34:43 GMT
I hate to say it but he won't play for us again, Hughes has had plenty of opportunity to play him but Wilson and Muni have been in front of him and just when it seems Huth is returning to full fitness we bring wolly in and ship him out.
Even at third choice to partner Shawcross Hughes decided he wasn't good enough to revive his once magnificent partnership with Ryan.
Sent from my C6603 using proboards
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Post by mattythestokie on Feb 22, 2015 19:47:12 GMT
As much as I like the guy, we don't need him now.
We will have been without him for the best part of 2 seasons when this campaign has come to an end and, with the way things are going, we will have secured consecutive top 10 finishes.
It's clear Hughes wants a more ball playing centre half alongside Shawcross, in Muniesa and Wolcheid, and if it's going to keep our good performances coming, then why change it.
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Post by slpmarc on Feb 25, 2015 18:32:50 GMT
You keep trotting this out ...how do you know? This condition doesn't show up in a medical? Can you answer please. That dodgy knee seems to be holding together... Got any more insights?? I know as every game he has played in the past 18 months he could not train after for 3 days while his knee settled down, similar to Walters. It's all about managing the situation. Huth's knee is slightly worse than Walters and needs game time to see if it is something that will only get worse, and sending him out on loan to get games that won't impact on the amount of points Stoke get is the only way, if by some miracle Huth's knee proves it can be managed and can play week in week out then he will be back in contention next season. If not then the loan for Wollschied will be made permanent and Huth will move on
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Post by pottersrule on Feb 25, 2015 18:38:30 GMT
That dodgy knee seems to be holding together... Got any more insights?? I know as every game he has played in the past 18 months he could not train after for 3 days while his knee settled down, similar to Walters. It's all about managing the situation. Huth's knee is slightly worse than Walters and needs game time to see if it is something that will only get worse, and sending him out on loan to get games that won't impact on the amount of points Stoke get is the only way, if by some miracle Huth's knee proves it can be managed and can play week in week out then he will be back in contention next season. If not then the loan for Wollschied will be made permanent and Huth will move on So the rumours of a clash between Huth and Hughes are false then?
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Post by wickerman on Feb 26, 2015 20:52:25 GMT
That dodgy knee seems to be holding together... Got any more insights?? I know as every game he has played in the past 18 months he could not train after for 3 days while his knee settled down, similar to Walters. It's all about managing the situation. Huth's knee is slightly worse than Walters and needs game time to see if it is something that will only get worse, and sending him out on loan to get games that won't impact on the amount of points Stoke get is the only way, if by some miracle Huth's knee proves it can be managed and can play week in week out then he will be back in contention next season. If not then the loan for Wollschied will be made permanent and Huth will move on That's not true .
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