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Post by JoeinOz on Feb 9, 2015 10:49:19 GMT
Gutless clown ref.
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Post by Caerwrangonpotter on Feb 9, 2015 10:51:09 GMT
Slight off topic, but what has happened to Sian Massey? The Lineswoman who seemed destined to be Premiership Referee at some point
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Post by Cast no shadow on Feb 9, 2015 10:54:33 GMT
Slight off topic, but what has happened to Sian Massey? The Lineswoman who seemed destined to be Premiership Referee at some point John Terry got her preggers
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Post by Cast no shadow on Feb 9, 2015 10:55:57 GMT
Who's ref on wed night?
I know its irrelevant as they're all toss but just curious.
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Post by geoff321 on Feb 9, 2015 11:39:49 GMT
Most football officials have always been regarded as useless by biased football fans, today though they face many more pressures, not least is the fact that their decisions can be now be questioned by endless replays on television.
The officials in the modern game are being asked to decide on vague offside rules, diving, shirt pulling, feigning injury, elbows/arm use etc and if that isn't difficult enough fans then expect consistency.
If we wrongly assume from the start that officials are corrupt, bent, cheats, cowards or incompetent then we are likely to draw the wrong conclusions and take unnecessary action to try and solve the problems.
There are two key areas in my opinion that could help, first more use of video technology and second a culture change among players and coaches in regard to cheating, on the last point though I won't hold my breath.
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Post by Staffsoatcake on Feb 9, 2015 11:58:54 GMT
After thinking about it, I don't think Refs. are corrupt, you need bottle to be corrupt and hope to get away with it, Refs. today don't have the bottle, they shit themsens if they have to give a Pen. a red or yellow card against any of the so called top sides. Spineless is what I would call them.
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Post by Kjones9 on Feb 9, 2015 12:01:35 GMT
Most football officials have always been regarded as useless by biased football fans, today though they face many more pressures, not least is the fact that their decisions can be now be questioned by endless replays on television. The officials in the modern game are being asked to decide on vague offside rules, diving, shirt pulling, feigning injury, elbows/arm use etc and if that isn't difficult enough fans then expect consistency. If we wrongly assume from the start that officials are corrupt, bent, cheats, cowards or incompetent then we are likely to draw the wrong conclusions and take unnecessary action to try and solve the problems. There are two key areas in my opinion that could help, first more use of video technology and second a culture change among players and coaches in regard to cheating, on the last point though I won't hold my breath. What did you think about the Colbeck decision yesterday Geoff? Are the rules vague about not getting a second yellow card for chopping down (and making the worse tackle of the game) a opponent?
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Post by Deleted on Feb 9, 2015 12:02:29 GMT
and we used to think Graham Poll was shit..oh for a Pat Partridge or Clive Thomas nowadays. wow Clive Thomas can you imagine the game with him he would get slaughtered by modern managers would be funny to watch though.
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Post by Jamo on the wing on Feb 9, 2015 12:23:23 GMT
Most football officials have always been regarded as useless by biased football fans, today though they face many more pressures, not least is the fact that their decisions can be now be questioned by endless replays on television. The officials in the modern game are being asked to decide on vague offside rules, diving, shirt pulling, feigning injury, elbows/arm use etc and if that isn't difficult enough fans then expect consistency. If we wrongly assume from the start that officials are corrupt, bent, cheats, cowards or incompetent then we are likely to draw the wrong conclusions and take unnecessary action to try and solve the problems. There are two key areas in my opinion that could help, first more use of video technology and second a culture change among players and coaches in regard to cheating, on the last point though I won't hold my breath. How does all that excuse the complete cock up of directly viewing Colbeck take Moses out at pace as not being worthy of the most obvious yellow card offence you're likely to ever see?
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Post by ukcstokie on Feb 9, 2015 12:27:45 GMT
After thinking about it, I don't think Refs. are corrupt, you need bottle to be corrupt and hope to get away with it, Refs. today don't have the bottle, they shit themsens if they have to give a Pen. a red or yellow card against any of the so called top sides. Spineless is what I would call them. I think some of them must be corrupt. Here's my reasoning... The Premiership is the most popular league in the world, and must have the most money betted on it. The gangs that make money on the betting will be trying to influence the results. What's the easiest way? Bribe a player - who may or may not be able to influence a result, and who probably going to need a substantial incentive (why would you risk your career and prosecution when you're on £20k+ week?). Why not go for a ref who will need a much smaller inducement, and will have a much greater opportunity to influence the games. Add to this that some players have been charged in the past, while I don't think any ref has ever reported any approaches? I just can't see that the gangs aren't all over some of the refs.
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Post by PerCyfilth ....Captains Log on Feb 9, 2015 12:28:41 GMT
and we used to think Graham Poll was shit..oh for a Pat Partridge or Clive Thomas nowadays. wow Clive Thomas can you imagine the game with him he would get slaughtered by modern managers would be funny to watch though. Can you imagine the furore if he blew for time just as a corner went in and was nodded in as he once did? At least he had the bollocks to do it!
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Post by Kjones9 on Feb 9, 2015 12:29:22 GMT
Come on Geoff...
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Post by Deleted on Feb 9, 2015 12:30:34 GMT
wow Clive Thomas can you imagine the game with him he would get slaughtered by modern managers would be funny to watch though. Can you imagine the furore if he blew for time just as a corner went in and was nodded in as he once did? At least he had the bollocks to do it! Sadly lacking in todays celebrity refs.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 9, 2015 12:36:21 GMT
I haven't got a problem with ref's letting those kind of challenges go unpished by a yellow card. As long as that leniency is displayed throughout the game, to both sides.
Equally, I haven't got a big problem with ref's dishing yellows out for every late or overly eager foul. Again, as long as it is applied to both teams the same, for the entire match.
What we got yesterday was a referee who was quick to brandish yellow cards for every slight offence committed by the away side, and then completely bottling it in favour of the home side when a much worse foul was committed. He completely choked. It would have beeb a much easier decision to give against us, with little outcry from the small following of Stokies, up in the gods.
If Ireland or Whelan had scythed down a Newcastle player in that fashion, you can get your bottom dollar the ref would've been quick to get his cards out.
I'm not sure it's cheating myself, it's just blatant incompetence. The rules are the rules, and should be applied regardless of circumstance. It shouldn't matter if the team in question is one of the media darlings, or whether the crowd is a sizeable one generating a hostile environment, officials should be big enough to apply the laws in an unbiased manner - and too many of them simply don't do that.
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Post by kidcrewbob on Feb 9, 2015 12:42:20 GMT
My plan would be :-
- all Prem refs to be foreign - rostered around the EUAFA top flights on a 3 year cycle - this to cut out the over-familiarity and that first-name "hey Wayne" nonesense - all officials should be full-time & ultra-professional - and paid enough to negate any other incentives - Prem reffing to be an aspirational millionaire opportunity for high performers with bonusses for high post-match appraisal ratings - all to be publically accountable for their decisions & actions within 24 hours of any game and subject to sanction in the event of errors of judgement - No-one but the captain to speak to the ref on the field - immediate yellow for anyone who approaches - 4th official to be removed from pitchside and to be monitoring camera angles and be consulted on pennos, booking & sendings off as required. - Host team to provide a substitute monkey with board.... - Managers and other bench mob not allowed to approach referee during play and only by appointment after the match - Liners to run all 4 quadrants.....
Beggars belief that a multi-billion pound business be subject to best-endeavours & alomst amateur-like regulation.....
That should do it.....!!!
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Post by polofrance on Feb 9, 2015 12:55:59 GMT
Didn't realize Mr Friend was the ref who sent off Pardew last year for the head but, probably too scared to get his card out again against Newcastle
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Post by geoff321 on Feb 9, 2015 12:57:29 GMT
I think wingy the problem is with the laws i.e. two yellow cards and the player is off.
How many times do you see a referee book a player for a relatively minor foul and then on the same players second offence hesitate and not book the player because he knows it becomes a sending off.
I would like to see a player who is given two yellow cards remain on the pitch but to get the same ban as a sending off.
In the game yesterday Colbeck, within the current laws, should have been sent off.
A sending off in reality hands the game to the side with 11 players, so such decisions need to be for really serious foul play.
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Post by Jamo on the wing on Feb 9, 2015 13:06:27 GMT
I think wingy the problem is with the laws i.e. two yellow cards and the player is off. How many times do you see a referee book a player for a relatively minor foul and then on the same players second offence hesitate and not book the player because he knows it becomes a sending off. I would like to see a player who is given two yellow cards remain on the pitch but to get the same ban as a sending off. In the game yesterday Colbeck, within the current laws, should have been sent off. A sending off in reality hands the game to the side with 11 players, so such decisions need to be for really serious foul play. Yet both of his challenges were worse than Ireland's (who actually won the ball). You'd have struggled to find anyone in football who could argue that Colbeck didn't deserve to be sent off. There nothing contentious or open to interpretation, he should have walked.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 9, 2015 13:07:13 GMT
I think wingy the problem is with the laws i.e. two yellow cards and the player is off. How many times do you see a referee book a player for a relatively minor foul and then on the same players second offence hesitate and not book the player because he knows it becomes a sending off. I would like to see a player who is given two yellow cards remain on the pitch but to get the same ban as a sending off. In the game yesterday Colbeck, within the current laws, should have been sent off.A sending off in reality hands the game to the side with 11 players, so such decisions need to be for really serious foul play. Geoff in "getting off the fence and offering an opinion" shocker!!!
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Post by Pugsley on Feb 9, 2015 13:14:32 GMT
Most football officials have always been regarded as useless by biased football fans, today though they face many more pressures, not least is the fact that their decisions can be now be questioned by endless replays on television. The officials in the modern game are being asked to decide on vague offside rules, diving, shirt pulling, feigning injury, elbows/arm use etc and if that isn't difficult enough fans then expect consistency. If we wrongly assume from the start that officials are corrupt, bent, cheats, cowards or incompetent then we are likely to draw the wrong conclusions and take unnecessary action to try and solve the problems. There are two key areas in my opinion that could help, first more use of video technology and second a culture change among players and coaches in regard to cheating, on the last point though I won't hold my breath.
You have some fair points Geoff but it's a two way street. Perhaps if the Refs and their bosses weren't so detached from the game then everyone would be more sympathetic. They must come out after each game to explain their decisions - I'd love to hear why Kevin Friend didn't book Colback for his assault on Moses yet deemed in necessary to flash cards to Moses, Whelan and Ireland.
While you've got Mike Reilly sitting in his ivory tower with his fingers in his ears telling the world the refs are great nothing will change.
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Post by Jamo on the wing on Feb 9, 2015 13:19:07 GMT
I think wingy the problem is with the laws i.e. two yellow cards and the player is off. How many times do you see a referee book a player for a relatively minor foul and then on the same players second offence hesitate and not book the player because he knows it becomes a sending off. I would like to see a player who is given two yellow cards remain on the pitch but to get the same ban as a sending off. In the game yesterday Colbeck, within the current laws, should have been sent off.A sending off in reality hands the game to the side with 11 players, so such decisions need to be for really serious foul play. Geoff in "getting off the fence and offering an opinion" shocker!!! It's still a defence of referees though. They clearly have a tough job, nobody would argue with that but this instance is totally black and white. The rules are that two bookings result in a red and Friend got it horribly wrong yesterday. All this about refs being reluctant to show a second yellow doesn't seem to apply when it's against us as we have fallen foul of it on numerous occasions. What's good for the goose should be good for the gander. The fact that it isn't is the frustrating part.
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Post by davejohnno1 on Feb 9, 2015 13:22:20 GMT
I think wingy the problem is with the laws i.e. two yellow cards and the player is off. How many times do you see a referee book a player for a relatively minor foul and then on the same players second offence hesitate and not book the player because he knows it becomes a sending off. I would like to see a player who is given two yellow cards remain on the pitch but to get the same ban as a sending off. In the game yesterday Colbeck, within the current laws, should have been sent off. A sending off in reality hands the game to the side with 11 players, so such decisions need to be for really serious foul play. Yet both of his challenges were worse than Ireland's (who actually won the ball). You'd have struggled to find anyone in football who could argue that Colbeck didn't deserve to be sent off. There nothing contentious or open to interpretation, he should have walked. Wasn't it Whelan that won the ball? Ireland didn't seem to win the ball to me but I thought it was a harsh booking all the same. The problem yesterday was twofold for me. 1) the referee booked the first 3 fouls committed by Stoke players, one of which the ball was won cleanly and clearly. He then failed to issue a yellow card for the only bad challenge of the game. 2) In the same fixture last season we were reduced to 9 men when one of our players was inexplicably booked twice inside 30 seconds for tackles that were nowhere near as bad as the 2 Colbeck challenges yesterday. Point 2 isn't Friend's fault but the 1st absolutely is. Referees are rubbish and refereeing in this country is surely at an all time low. The game is too quick for them and whilst they all know the rules, none of them seemingly "know the game".
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Post by geoff321 on Feb 9, 2015 13:23:23 GMT
The problem Jamo is that if we lay all the blame on the officials and not consider other reasons why mistakes are being made or keep this in proportion, then we finish up with over dramatic suggestions.
In the above posts you have someone suggesting officials could be being bribed and another that we should only have foreign referees.
Regarding bribery, whether with players or officials, once you have massive betting on football games the risk is always there and whether the authorities have a grip on this issue is anyones guess.
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Post by Northy on Feb 9, 2015 13:29:41 GMT
I think wingy the problem is with the laws i.e. two yellow cards and the player is off. How many times do you see a referee book a player for a relatively minor foul and then on the same players second offence hesitate and not book the player because he knows it becomes a sending off. I would like to see a player who is given two yellow cards remain on the pitch but to get the same ban as a sending off. In the game yesterday Colbeck, within the current laws, should have been sent off. A sending off in reality hands the game to the side with 11 players, so such decisions need to be for really serious foul play. remain on the pitch? how does that benefit the team he's committed the offence against, it only benefits other teams who he doesn't have to face?
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Post by murphthesurf on Feb 9, 2015 13:36:44 GMT
After thinking about it, I don't think Refs. are corrupt, you need bottle to be corrupt and hope to get away with it, Refs. today don't have the bottle, they shit themsens if they have to give a Pen. a red or yellow card against any of the so called top sides. Spineless is what I would call them. I think most of us think this is exactly it - they bottle it all too often, especially when it involves decisions against the 'bigger' clubs and all their baying fans who howl for cards to be dished out from start to finish. Soul destroying.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 9, 2015 13:43:01 GMT
Geoff in "getting off the fence and offering an opinion" shocker!!! It's still a defence of referees though. They clearly have a tough job, nobody would argue with that but this instance is totally black and white. The rules are that two bookings result in a red and Friend got it horribly wrong yesterday. All this about refs being reluctant to show a second yellow doesn't seem to apply when it's against us as we have fallen foul of it on numerous occasions. What's good for the goose should be good for the gander. The fact that it isn't is the frustrating part. Agree. In all honesty I'd be happy if all challenges similar to Collback's 2nd challenge weren't penalised with a yellow card, football's gone soft. But Friend completely set his stall out by booking 3 Stoke players for the first 3 fouls of the match (lesser challenges). Therefore based on how he'd officiated the previous 70 minutes the only rational conclusion can be that he completely bottled it and should be punished accordingly. Martin Atkinson chose to apply the "letter of the law" to Wilson and Whelan last season, therein lies the difference. The outcome was that we were hard done to on both occasions..........
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Post by leicspotter on Feb 9, 2015 13:45:38 GMT
All this "lets keep 11 men on the pitch" stuff is laughable. If a player is on a yellow card (whether harsh or not) he knows, and his manager knows, that he is "walking a tightrope" and just one bad tackle away from being sent off. If he then commits said tackle, then it's his own stupid fault! It's not the refs job to protect some brain dead thug from being red carded, that is down to his manager who should sub him, or be prepared for the worse. I remember two seasons ago, Arse v Shit, when Fergie subbed Cleverley but Whinger let Wishere on...gues what, Wilshere got a second yellow...how I laughed!! Yesterday 4 Stoke players had to "watch themselves" after receiving dubious cautions, that MUST have had an impact on the way they played the rest of the game...apparently Colback could just carry on diving in with impunity!? Stinks!
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Post by onionman on Feb 9, 2015 13:45:49 GMT
I think wingy the problem is with the laws i.e. two yellow cards and the player is off. How many times do you see a referee book a player for a relatively minor foul and then on the same players second offence hesitate and not book the player because he knows it becomes a sending off. I would like to see a player who is given two yellow cards remain on the pitch but to get the same ban as a sending off. In the game yesterday Colbeck, within the current laws, should have been sent off. A sending off in reality hands the game to the side with 11 players, so such decisions need to be for really serious foul play. Here's a quote from Pulis when Kevin Friend sent Charlie Adam off for two very innocuous tackles against Spurs a couple of years ago: "I don't think Charlie has touched (Jan) Vertonghen on the first one and on the second one he's made a mistake by sliding in, but again I don't think he touches him." Kevin Friend wasn't so lenient then, was he. Why do you think he decided to be ruthless with Charlie Adam, yet lenient on Jack Colback?
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Post by Jamo on the wing on Feb 9, 2015 13:50:31 GMT
The problem Jamo is that if we lay all the blame on the officials and not consider other reasons why mistakes are being made or keep this in proportion, then we finish up with over dramatic suggestions. In the above posts you have someone suggesting officials could be being bribed and another that we should only have foreign referees. Regarding bribery, whether with players or officials, once you have massive betting on football games the risk is always there and whether the authorities have a grip on this issue is anyones guess. We're digressing here a bit though, Geoff. Overall you are right about refs but in these instances the fault is purely down to the individual.
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Post by geoff321 on Feb 9, 2015 14:05:42 GMT
The answer om as to why Friend didn't send Colbeck off is the key issue here and only the referee knows the true answer.
I'm guessing he didn't think the tackle warranted being sent off, so he was placed in that awkward position by the laws of the game, so he did nothing.
Regarding Charlie Adam I've no idea why he acted differently then, but one thing for sure is that he is not anti Stoke City.
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