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Post by blackpoolred on Feb 5, 2015 22:44:56 GMT
It is a terrible thing that someone can feel that bad that they want to throw themselves under a lorry. Carlisle is supposedly one of the most intelligent footballers on the planet and he may have contemplated his actions for a long while and how it may affect his family, but the way he did it showed no ounce of thought for the lorry driver - therefore has to be classed as a selfish act.
We would not have condoned his actions if he had, had a skin full, got in a car and maimed someone in the process, while trying to drive himself to his death – which is another scenario that could of happened.
I wish him well going forward and hope he can get help. Nobody has died and he and the lorry driver get a 2nd chance.
It must be tough living the life of a modern day, molly coddled, footballer, with all the adulation and trappings that come with the role and then just leave the game with nothing and having to fend for yourself, a lot of footballers have suffered from depression and emptiness after the game, maybe something could be done there.
I have genuine sympathy for him, but as stated he is an extremely intelligent man( who obviously suffers from depression) but also a fair amount of narcissism with the way he handles his depression.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 5, 2015 22:51:59 GMT
Don't know the full story but he was an alcoholic. He borrowed his credit card for petrol and went on a drink binge. There's probably more to it than that but that's irrelevant, no matter what, this thread will not have a happy ending. A sensitive subject like this should be binned as soon as it arrives. It never ends well Isn't that sort of attitude why it's such a topic though? Not talking about depression and what not is exactly the issue. I just want to know what he did when he was younger though, as he comes across as a holier than though sort so it has intrigued me. People will always judge without a full understanding or knowing the exact details of the individual case. That can only end in a bad way. If it was a general discussion about depression, fair enough.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Feb 5, 2015 22:58:40 GMT
Isn't that sort of attitude why it's such a topic though? Not talking about depression and what not is exactly the issue. I just want to know what he did when he was younger though, as he comes across as a holier than though sort so it has intrigued me. People will always judge without a full understanding or knowing the exact details of the individual case. That can only end in a bad way. If it was a general discussion about depression, fair enough. It needs something like this to highlight it and for people to get a better understanding. Some will, some won't. I just want know what he did when he was younger......
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Post by Deleted on Feb 5, 2015 23:00:24 GMT
People will always judge without a full understanding or knowing the exact details of the individual case. That can only end in a bad way. If it was a general discussion about depression, fair enough. It needs something like this to highlight it and for people to get a better understanding. Some will, some won't. I just want know what he did when he was younger...... If that's what you want mate, this board isn't the place for it. Do your research.
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Post by salopstick on Feb 5, 2015 23:01:31 GMT
It is a terrible thing that someone can feel that bad that they want to throw themselves under a lorry. Carlisle is supposedly one of the most intelligent footballers on the planet and he may have contemplated his actions for a long while and how it may affect his family, but the way he did it showed no ounce of thought for the lorry driver - therefore has to be classed as a selfish act. We would not have condoned his actions if he had, had a skin full, got in a car and maimed someone in the process, while trying to drive himself to his death – which is another scenario that could of happened. I wish him well going forward and hope he can get help. Nobody has died and he and the lorry driver get a 2nd chance. It must be tough living the life of a modern day, molly coddled, footballer, with all the adulation and trappings that come with the role and then just leave the game with nothing and having to fend for yourself, a lot of footballers have suffered from depression and emptiness after the game, maybe something could be done there. I have genuine sympathy for him, but as stated he is an extremely intelligent man( who obviously suffers from depression) but also a fair amount of narcissism with the way he handles his depression. Nothing about CC but you can't speak for the lorry driver. He shouldn't need a second chance. No/one know if this crash has caused him to lose his job, with all the implications that would have on him and his family, divorce etc etc , plus the implications on his health and well being. He went out to work that day to provide for his family and for all we know has lost everything.
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Post by blackpoolred on Feb 5, 2015 23:10:42 GMT
It is a terrible thing that someone can feel that bad that they want to throw themselves under a lorry. Carlisle is supposedly one of the most intelligent footballers on the planet and he may have contemplated his actions for a long while and how it may affect his family, but the way he did it showed no ounce of thought for the lorry driver - therefore has to be classed as a selfish act. We would not have condoned his actions if he had, had a skin full, got in a car and maimed someone in the process, while trying to drive himself to his death – which is another scenario that could of happened. I wish him well going forward and hope he can get help. Nobody has died and he and the lorry driver get a 2nd chance. It must be tough living the life of a modern day, molly coddled, footballer, with all the adulation and trappings that come with the role and then just leave the game with nothing and having to fend for yourself, a lot of footballers have suffered from depression and emptiness after the game, maybe something could be done there. I have genuine sympathy for him, but as stated he is an extremely intelligent man( who obviously suffers from depression) but also a fair amount of narcissism with the way he handles his depression. Nothing about CC but you can't speak for the lorry driver. He shouldn't need a second chance. No/one know if this crash has caused him to lose his job, with all the implications that would have on him and his family, divorce etc etc , plus the implications on his health and well being. He went out to work that day to provide for his family and for all we know has lost everything. Yes - I agree with you. I meant 2nd chance, as in he did not die trying to swerve out the way or get involved in a serious accident. Agreed - he could still have been scarred for life for all we know
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Post by bayernoatcake on Feb 5, 2015 23:58:12 GMT
It needs something like this to highlight it and for people to get a better understanding. Some will, some won't. I just want know what he did when he was younger...... If that's what you want mate, this board isn't the place for it. Do your research. Why isn't it?
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Post by CraigWally on Feb 6, 2015 0:48:55 GMT
As someone who is currently suffering with depression (those who know me may remember that I ran away from home (I'm 53) a year ago - and had suicidal thoughts(running into traffic)(jumping of Blackpool pier)(Slashing wrists)) I find some of these comments staggering. Claims of understanding of the illness are so obviously untrue and perhaps show how little we have come forward on the subject. I have been so offended by the posts of a few members that it was a struggle to read through them all, however I do not agree with those asking for the thread to be binned. This whole subject should be openly discussed and read by as many people as possible. I'm sure most will quickly realise which posters are talking rubbish.
As an answer to CobhamStokey - There are many support groups across the country - I attend one at the Britannia Stadium every week (supported by Lou Macari(who obviously does fully understand)
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Post by Deleted on Feb 6, 2015 7:44:24 GMT
If that's what you want mate, this board isn't the place for it. Do your research. Why isn't it? Because it's an Internet message board, primarily for Stoke City related stuff. If I want to learn about quantum physics, I wouldn't go to the local butchers.
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Post by Trouserdog on Feb 6, 2015 7:58:15 GMT
There are times when you wonder whether even reading this board is worth the empty feeling it can leave you with. Although there are many decent people on here, there's an increasingly significant number of twats around who I wouldn't want to share oxygen with in real life.
In fact, every time there's a thread on any subject that requires some intelligence and common decency to be applied- whether it be mental illness, Hillsborough, racism, sexuality etc etc- the board becomes littered with vile, hateful, ignorant shit.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 6, 2015 8:40:52 GMT
As someone who is currently suffering with depression (those who know me may remember that I ran away from home (I'm 53) a year ago - and had suicidal thoughts(running into traffic)(jumping of Blackpool pier)(Slashing wrists)) I find some of these comments staggering. Claims of understanding of the illness are so obviously untrue and perhaps show how little we have come forward on the subject. I have been so offended by the posts of a few members that it was a struggle to read through them all, however I do not agree with those asking for the thread to be binned. This whole subject should be openly discussed and read by as many people as possible. I'm sure most will quickly realise which posters are talking rubbish. As an answer to CobhamStokey - There are many support groups across the country - I attend one at the Britannia Stadium every week (supported by Lou Macari(who obviously does fully understand) I think too many people think feeling a bit down is the same as depression. That rationally thinking I have a load of money and a good family can stop the dark thoughts. If there's a massive chemical imbalance in the brain then there's not much you can do to 'get over it' without drugs and support. Unfortunately too many sufferers are embarrassed to get support because of the unfair stigma over mental illness. All I would say to people having a go at Clarke Carliase is how would they feel if somebody they knew was suffering from depression, but hid it because or embarrassment your words had caused?
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Post by Mcdanger on Feb 6, 2015 10:23:44 GMT
I think all fair minded and decent people on here will know the posts to take seriously, but i suppose its a free country and everybody is entitled to there opinion and its a subject that is really hard to understand if you have never been affected by it......but saying that there are some right twats on ere!!!
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Post by Bojan Mackey on Feb 6, 2015 13:20:16 GMT
As someone who is currently suffering with depression (those who know me may remember that I ran away from home (I'm 53) a year ago - and had suicidal thoughts(running into traffic)(jumping of Blackpool pier)(Slashing wrists)) I find some of these comments staggering. Claims of understanding of the illness are so obviously untrue and perhaps show how little we have come forward on the subject. I have been so offended by the posts of a few members that it was a struggle to read through them all, however I do not agree with those asking for the thread to be binned. This whole subject should be openly discussed and read by as many people as possible. I'm sure most will quickly realise which posters are talking rubbish. As an answer to CobhamStokey - There are many support groups across the country - I attend one at the Britannia Stadium every week (supported by Lou Macari(who obviously does fully understand) Great to see you on the road to recovery Wally, I'm sure I echo pretty much all of the posters on this board in that we hope to see you back in full swing in the hopefully not too distant future, top man. I know absolutely zilch about the effects of depression, and I prefer the majority of my posts to be humorous rather than serious, however there is one thing that's always intrigued me, which you may be able to shed some light on if you feel like it, feel free to tell me where to go if not. When a person finds themselves in the situation like yourself and Clarke Carlisle were in, what thoughts are occurring in your mind? Is the objective "I must end my life in any way possible" or is it a more complex, diverse set of thought processes that only a true sufferer would understand?
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Post by Deleted on Feb 6, 2015 13:35:33 GMT
There are times when you wonder whether even reading this board is worth the empty feeling it can leave you with. Although there are many decent people on here, there's an increasingly significant number of twats around who I wouldn't want to share oxygen with in real life. In fact, every time there's a thread on any subject that requires some intelligence and common decency to be applied- whether it be mental illness, Hillsborough, racism, sexuality etc etc- the board becomes littered with vile, hateful, ignorant shit.
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Post by CraigWally on Feb 6, 2015 14:09:44 GMT
Great to see you on the road to recovery Wally, I'm sure I echo pretty much all of the posters on this board in that we hope to see you back in full swing in the hopefully not too distant future, top man. I know absolutely zilch about the effects of depression, and I prefer the majority of my posts to be humorous rather than serious, however there is one thing that's always intrigued me, which you may be able to shed some light on if you feel like it, feel free to tell me where to go if not. When a person finds themselves in the situation like yourself and Clarke Carlisle were in, what thoughts are occurring in your mind? Is the objective "I must end my life in any way possible" or is it a more complex, diverse set of thought processes that only a true sufferer would understand? It's difficult to understand and perhaps it's not the same with every sufferer. The wife is only just coming to terms with the fact that I was contemplating something that I knew would cause her (and others) untold grief. I felt as though I had no other options left, nothing was ever going to stop those terrible thoughts in my head, it was not going to go away, it seemed the only way to rid myself of my troubles. I stopped my car on the hard shoulder of the M6 and got out and walked (it was dark-approx. 7pm in January) hoping that something would come my way. Losing all rational thought is a perfect description of what happens to sufferers, being labelled a coward is not helping anybody
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Post by skip on Feb 6, 2015 14:13:31 GMT
I have no sympathy for Clarke Carlisle whatsoever. He's a weak coward whether by illness or otherwise. I have great sympathy for his wife, child/children who clearly aren't enough to fill his life with joy and the poor driver who was confronted by his suicide bid. And the same goes to Stephen 'Winger' Foster presumably?
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Post by davejohnno1 on Feb 6, 2015 15:13:56 GMT
I have no sympathy for Clarke Carlisle whatsoever. He's a weak coward whether by illness or otherwise. I have great sympathy for his wife, child/children who clearly aren't enough to fill his life with joy and the poor driver who was confronted by his suicide bid. And the same goes to Stephen 'Winger' Foster presumably? Not at all. His were a totally different set of circumstances. I don't recall stories of Winger being an alcoholic, serial drink driver, thief or gambling addict, frittering away his families fortunes on a gambling whim and then involving a totally innocent third party in his own suicide bid. Do you? As mentioned further up the thread, I have every sympathy for people who struggle with severe mental illness, including Winger, but I have very little sympathy for Clarke Carlisle in this instance. His suicide bid was an act of cowardice, involving not only himself but a totally innocent third party who will be traumatised for life by the actions of Clarke Carlisle. I don't know the detail of Wingers tragic story but like others, met him and spoke to him via our connections to Stoke City. It is sad that his life ended the way that it did, tragic in fact, but the life led by Winger and that led by Clarke Carlisle are totally different, as were there subsequent suicide attempts, one of which involved a totally innocent 3rd party the other of which, didn't. I'm sure both will have contemplated the best way in which to end their lives. One did it in a way that left little to chance (there was only one way that was going to end up) and involved no-one other than himself whilst the other didn't, giving himself a chance of survival yet destroying an innocent person's life in the process.
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Post by PotterLog on Feb 6, 2015 15:57:22 GMT
As someone who is currently suffering with depression (those who know me may remember that I ran away from home (I'm 53) a year ago - and had suicidal thoughts(running into traffic)(jumping of Blackpool pier)(Slashing wrists)) I find some of these comments staggering. Claims of understanding of the illness are so obviously untrue and perhaps show how little we have come forward on the subject. I have been so offended by the posts of a few members that it was a struggle to read through them all, however I do not agree with those asking for the thread to be binned. This whole subject should be openly discussed and read by as many people as possible. I'm sure most will quickly realise which posters are talking rubbish. As an answer to CobhamStokey - There are many support groups across the country - I attend one at the Britannia Stadium every week (supported by Lou Macari(who obviously does fully understand) Wally, I don't know you personally but I heard about your story and it's an absolute pleasure to see your name back on the board. Your "goals video" posts were a true lifeline for many an exiled Stokie not so long ago, thank you. Keep fighting the fight.
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Post by mywaydesolzan on Feb 6, 2015 16:00:29 GMT
And the same goes to Stephen 'Winger' Foster presumably? Not at all. His were a totally different set of circumstances. I don't recall stories of Winger being an alcoholic, serial drink driver, thief or gambling addict, frittering away his families fortunes on a gambling whim and then involving a totally innocent third party in his own suicide bid. Do you? As mentioned further up the thread, I have every sympathy for people who struggle with severe mental illness, including Winger, but I have very little sympathy for Clarke Carlisle in this instance. His suicide bid was an act of cowardice, involving not only himself but a totally innocent third party who will be traumatised for life by the actions of Clarke Carlisle. I don't know the detail of Wingers tragic story but like others, met him and spoke to him via our connections to Stoke City. It is sad that his life ended the way that it did, tragic in fact, but the life led by Winger and that led by Clarke Carlisle are totally different, as were there subsequent suicide attempts, one of which involved a totally innocent 3rd party the other of which, didn't. I'm sure both will have contemplated the best way in which to end their lives. One did it in a way that left little to chance (there was only one way that was going to end up) and involved no-one other than himself whilst the other didn't, giving himself a chance of survival yet destroying an innocent person's life in the process. So is addiction not a severe mental illness?
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Post by skip on Feb 6, 2015 16:24:03 GMT
And the same goes to Stephen 'Winger' Foster presumably? Not at all. His were a totally different set of circumstances. I don't recall stories of Winger being an alcoholic, serial drink driver, thief or gambling addict, frittering away his families fortunes on a gambling whim and then involving a totally innocent third party in his own suicide bid. Do you? As mentioned further up the thread, I have every sympathy for people who struggle with severe mental illness, including Winger, but I have very little sympathy for Clarke Carlisle in this instance. [...] The problem for me Dave is that I'm not a rich footballer, and even by lower league standards I'm sure Clark Carlisle was paid handsomely. He life and series of events is simply his own. I don't share or understand his life perspective, nor for that matter any person desperate enough to wish to take their own life. A student of mine ended his own life with, from the outside at least looking in, an amazing future ahead of himself. Erudite, talented, hard working, astute, popular. It obviously wasn't enough. Maybe Clark Carlisle's position is more akin to the classic cartoon visualisation of the failed businessman who has crawled out onto the window ledge but even that is tragic enough to contemplate. I personally, cannot separate the suicidal persons in terms of deserving of sympathy or otherwise, especially not in terms of monetary wealth or lifestyle. If it were that simple, only the poor would end their own lives.
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Post by mywaydesolzan on Feb 6, 2015 16:30:12 GMT
Not at all. His were a totally different set of circumstances. I don't recall stories of Winger being an alcoholic, serial drink driver, thief or gambling addict, frittering away his families fortunes on a gambling whim and then involving a totally innocent third party in his own suicide bid. Do you? As mentioned further up the thread, I have every sympathy for people who struggle with severe mental illness, including Winger, but I have very little sympathy for Clarke Carlisle in this instance. [...] The problem for me Dave is that I'm not a rich footballer, and even by lower league standards I'm sure Clark Carlisle was paid handsomely. He life and series of events is simply his own. I don't share or understand his life perspective, nor for that matter any person desperate enough to wish to take their own life. A student of mine ended his own life with, from the outside at least looking in, an amazing future ahead of himself. Erudite, talented, hard working, astute, popular. It obviously wasn't enough. Maybe Clark Carlisle's position is more akin to the classic cartoon visualisation of the failed businessman who has crawled out onto the window ledge but even that is tragic enough to contemplate. I personally, cannot separate the suicidal persons in terms of deserving of sympathy or otherwise, especially not in terms of monetary wealth or lifestyle. If it were that simple, only the poor would end their own lives. Extremely well put.
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Post by davejohnno1 on Feb 6, 2015 16:33:10 GMT
Not at all. His were a totally different set of circumstances. I don't recall stories of Winger being an alcoholic, serial drink driver, thief or gambling addict, frittering away his families fortunes on a gambling whim and then involving a totally innocent third party in his own suicide bid. Do you? As mentioned further up the thread, I have every sympathy for people who struggle with severe mental illness, including Winger, but I have very little sympathy for Clarke Carlisle in this instance. His suicide bid was an act of cowardice, involving not only himself but a totally innocent third party who will be traumatised for life by the actions of Clarke Carlisle. I don't know the detail of Wingers tragic story but like others, met him and spoke to him via our connections to Stoke City. It is sad that his life ended the way that it did, tragic in fact, but the life led by Winger and that led by Clarke Carlisle are totally different, as were there subsequent suicide attempts, one of which involved a totally innocent 3rd party the other of which, didn't. I'm sure both will have contemplated the best way in which to end their lives. One did it in a way that left little to chance (there was only one way that was going to end up) and involved no-one other than himself whilst the other didn't, giving himself a chance of survival yet destroying an innocent person's life in the process. So is addiction not a severe mental illness? Medically speaking I don't know the answer to that question. Lads I grew up with as a youngster starting smoking and as a young lad who had aspirations to do sport professionally (or at least to the highest level possible) I stopped knocking around with them. Smoking wasn't something I wanted to be associated with so I stopped spending my time with them. Some remain my "friends" to this day but we are not the best mates that we were when we were younger. Those same kids then tried "draw" and have gone on to have all kind of addictions be it to cigarettes, drugs, alcohol or whatever. My view of those lads I grew up with is that they were weak and didn't have the strength of character or personality to distance themselves from such things. They weren't, however, depressed or mentally ill. They made a series of wrong choices that ultimately affected the life they chose to live. Clarke Carlisle has used depression as an excuse for alcoholism, drink driving offences, theft, gambling addictions and now a suicide attempt. It all seems a bit convenient with him and for him to be honest. What came first with him? I don't know and can't answer that question but I don't feel sympathy for Clarke Carlise in this instance for the numerous reasons I've alluded to elsewhere in this thread.
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Post by danceswithclams on Feb 6, 2015 16:36:07 GMT
There are times when you wonder whether even reading this board is worth the empty feeling it can leave you with. Although there are many decent people on here, there's an increasingly significant number of twats around who I wouldn't want to share oxygen with in real life. In fact, every time there's a thread on any subject that requires some intelligence and common decency to be applied- whether it be mental illness, Hillsborough, racism, sexuality etc etc- the board becomes littered with vile, hateful, ignorant shit. I once littered the bathroom at a house party with a vile, hateful shit. Chicken Jalfrezi and drugs bought from the internet don't mix.
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Post by mywaydesolzan on Feb 6, 2015 16:45:03 GMT
So is addiction not a severe mental illness? Medically speaking I don't know the answer to that question. Lads I grew up with as a youngster starting smoking and as a young lad who had aspirations to do sport professionally (or at least to the highest level possible) I stopped knocking around with them. Smoking wasn't something I wanted to be associated with so I stopped spending my time with them. Some remain my "friends" to this day but we are not the best mates that we were when we were younger. Those same kids then tried "draw" and have gone on to have all kind of addictions be it to cigarettes, drugs, alcohol or whatever. My view of those lads I grew up with is that they were weak and didn't have the strength of character or personality to distance themselves from such things. They weren't, however, depressed or mentally ill. They made a series of wrong choices that ultimately affected the life they chose to live. Clarke Carlisle has used depression as an excuse for alcoholism, drink driving offences, theft, gambling addictions and now a suicide attempt. It all seems a bit convenient with him and for him to be honest. What came first with him? I don't know and can't answer that question but I don't feel sympathy for Clarke Carlise in this instance for the numerous reasons I've alluded to elsewhere in this thread. Can I ask what during your upbringing led you to believe your mates to be weak and have no strength of character.
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Post by davejohnno1 on Feb 6, 2015 16:46:25 GMT
Not at all. His were a totally different set of circumstances. I don't recall stories of Winger being an alcoholic, serial drink driver, thief or gambling addict, frittering away his families fortunes on a gambling whim and then involving a totally innocent third party in his own suicide bid. Do you? As mentioned further up the thread, I have every sympathy for people who struggle with severe mental illness, including Winger, but I have very little sympathy for Clarke Carlisle in this instance. [...] The problem for me Dave is that I'm not a rich footballer, and even by lower league standards I'm sure Clark Carlisle was paid handsomely. He life and series of events is simply his own. I don't share or understand his life perspective, nor for that matter any person desperate enough to wish to take their own life. A student of mine ended his own life with, from the outside at least looking in, an amazing future ahead of himself. Erudite, talented, hard working, astute, popular. It obviously wasn't enough. Maybe Clark Carlisle's position is more akin to the classic cartoon visualisation of the failed businessman who has crawled out onto the window ledge but even that is tragic enough to contemplate. I personally, cannot separate the suicidal persons in terms of deserving of sympathy or otherwise, especially not in terms of monetary wealth or lifestyle. If it were that simple, only the poor would end their own lives. I don't think I'm doing that am I? If that's the way it is coming across then I'm obviously not making my point adequately enough or you are reading things that simply aren't there. My lack of sympathy for Clarke Carlisle has nothing to do with his wealth, sporting prowess or anything of the sort and had some complete stranger, away from the public eye, had a similar chain of events publicised, my feelings would be the same. Clarke Carlisle has seemingly become depressed, clinically depressed or mentally ill as a direct result of his own failures. He feels worthless because he has had problems with alcoholism, drink driving, failed TV careers and gambling. It seems a very easy escape for him to blame depression for all of these things. I'm pretty sure that his clinical depression will be a result of all of those things rather than his depression being a cause of them. He seems quite happy to use that excuse as a reason for his behaviour given that he says openly, "he struggled to come to terms with not being a footballer anymore". He was an alcoholic and convicted drink driving offender whilst he was a footballer and apparently, he wasn't depressed then. Clarke Carlisle simply can't have it all ways. People on this thread have spoken about people not giving mental illness the respect or consideration it deserves and I can agree with that. The authorities should do more, budgetary wise, to help people conquer such illness. In my opinion, however, the story of Clarke Carlisle does little to help the cause of those that truly need and deserve this help and accounts of people who know him, which I have only just had the time to read, seem to back up a little bit of the perspective that I have on the specific example and circumstances of Clarke Carlisle.
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Post by davejohnno1 on Feb 6, 2015 16:55:04 GMT
Medically speaking I don't know the answer to that question. Lads I grew up with as a youngster starting smoking and as a young lad who had aspirations to do sport professionally (or at least to the highest level possible) I stopped knocking around with them. Smoking wasn't something I wanted to be associated with so I stopped spending my time with them. Some remain my "friends" to this day but we are not the best mates that we were when we were younger. Those same kids then tried "draw" and have gone on to have all kind of addictions be it to cigarettes, drugs, alcohol or whatever. My view of those lads I grew up with is that they were weak and didn't have the strength of character or personality to distance themselves from such things. They weren't, however, depressed or mentally ill. They made a series of wrong choices that ultimately affected the life they chose to live. Clarke Carlisle has used depression as an excuse for alcoholism, drink driving offences, theft, gambling addictions and now a suicide attempt. It all seems a bit convenient with him and for him to be honest. What came first with him? I don't know and can't answer that question but I don't feel sympathy for Clarke Carlise in this instance for the numerous reasons I've alluded to elsewhere in this thread. Can I ask what during your upbringing led you to believe your mates to be weak and have no strength of character. We all had the same opportunities. We all had the same upbringing. We were all good at sport, most were all better than me. We all had choices to make and from my experience of the people I'm talking about, "they were sheep". They weren't strong enough personalities to distance themselves from the people that were quite happy to lead them down a different path to that which they were on. They were scared to be different and simply followed the flock. It got them into trouble. Some more so than others. I got all sorts of stick of them for being different, was constantly hounded to "give it a go" but I didn't want to. I didn't give in to their "peer pressure" because I wanted more from my life. I wanted to be the very best that I could be, at that time in a sporting sense, but it is something that I've carried into my working life as well. Some chose a different path to me and still have a great life and some didn't. A couple of them are dead, one, the last I heard was homeless, one has all manner of problems and the other hasn't changed at all. He's happy enough but he is nearly 40 and looks 80. If he makes another 10 years, I'll be amazed.
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Post by mywaydesolzan on Feb 6, 2015 17:03:28 GMT
Can I ask what during your upbringing led you to believe your mates to be weak and have no strength of character. We all had the same opportunities. We all had the same upbringing. We were all good at sport, most were all better than me. We all had choices to make and from my experience of the people I'm talking about, "they were sheep". They weren't strong enough personalities to distance themselves from the people that were quite happy to lead them down a different path to that which they were on. They were scared to be different and simply followed the flock. It got them into trouble. Some more so than others. I got all sorts of stick of them for being different, was constantly hounded to "give it a go" but I didn't want to. I didn't give in to their "peer pressure" because I wanted more from my life. I wanted to be the very best that I could be, at that time in a sporting sense, but it is something that I've carried into my working life as well. Some chose a different path to me and still have a great life and some didn't. A couple of them are dead, one, the last I heard was homeless, one has all manner of problems and the other hasn't changed at all. He's happy enough but he is nearly 40 and looks 80. If he makes another 10 years, I'll be amazed. You walked away and I obviously cannot fault that. But why didn't others, you say they didn't have strong enough personalities, meaning they didn't have your mentality. That is what I am trying to understand, you say you all had the same opportunities, so what made the decisions so different?
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Post by davejohnno1 on Feb 6, 2015 17:32:00 GMT
We all had the same opportunities. We all had the same upbringing. We were all good at sport, most were all better than me. We all had choices to make and from my experience of the people I'm talking about, "they were sheep". They weren't strong enough personalities to distance themselves from the people that were quite happy to lead them down a different path to that which they were on. They were scared to be different and simply followed the flock. It got them into trouble. Some more so than others. I got all sorts of stick of them for being different, was constantly hounded to "give it a go" but I didn't want to. I didn't give in to their "peer pressure" because I wanted more from my life. I wanted to be the very best that I could be, at that time in a sporting sense, but it is something that I've carried into my working life as well. Some chose a different path to me and still have a great life and some didn't. A couple of them are dead, one, the last I heard was homeless, one has all manner of problems and the other hasn't changed at all. He's happy enough but he is nearly 40 and looks 80. If he makes another 10 years, I'll be amazed. You walked away and I obviously cannot fault that. But why didn't others, you say they didn't have strong enough personalities, meaning they didn't have your mentality. That is what I am trying to understand, you say you all had the same opportunities, so what made the decisions so different? What made their decisions so different? They weren't strong enough to say no and be different. They were easily led and easily influenced. Given a choice, I'm sure they'd now choose different. One of my very best friends at the time and a lad I still think the world of now, nearly killed himself at the age of 17/18. Not through a suicide attempt but by being pissed, falling asleep whilst smoking and setting his bed on fire. My dad saved his life. He's a great lad, a lovely lad and was a very talented sportsman. Brilliant cricketer, superb footballer, low handicap golfer. He has achieved very little with his talents. He isn't depressed, mentally ill or clinically ill. He simply made the wrong choices. See him now, put him in a crowd of people and that lovely lad turns into a complete idiot. He simply can't help himself. He is so easily led, if you told him to jump in front of a bus, he probably would...just for a laugh.
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Post by mywaydesolzan on Feb 6, 2015 17:39:13 GMT
You walked away and I obviously cannot fault that. But why didn't others, you say they didn't have strong enough personalities, meaning they didn't have your mentality. That is what I am trying to understand, you say you all had the same opportunities, so what made the decisions so different? What made their decisions so different? They weren't strong enough to say no and be different. They were easily led and easily influenced. Given a choice, I'm sure they'd now choose different. One of my very best friends at the time and a lad I still think the world of now, nearly killed himself at the age of 17/18. Not through a suicide attempt but by being pissed, falling asleep whilst smoking and setting his bed on fire. My dad saved his life. He's a great lad, a lovely lad and was a very talented sportsman. Brilliant cricketer, superb footballer, low handicap golfer. He has achieved very little with his talents. He isn't depressed, mentally ill or clinically ill. He simply made the wrong choices. See him now, put him in a crowd of people and that lovely lad turns into a complete idiot. He simply can't help himself. He is so easily led, if you told him to jump in front of a bus, he probably would...just for a laugh. That's the point though isn't it, they weren't strong enough=their state of mind. When you lose that state of mind, then all bets are off. Anyhow, I have listened to your views and respect your replies, but I am going to have to leave it there.
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Post by davejohnno1 on Feb 6, 2015 17:46:38 GMT
What made their decisions so different? They weren't strong enough to say no and be different. They were easily led and easily influenced. Given a choice, I'm sure they'd now choose different. One of my very best friends at the time and a lad I still think the world of now, nearly killed himself at the age of 17/18. Not through a suicide attempt but by being pissed, falling asleep whilst smoking and setting his bed on fire. My dad saved his life. He's a great lad, a lovely lad and was a very talented sportsman. Brilliant cricketer, superb footballer, low handicap golfer. He has achieved very little with his talents. He isn't depressed, mentally ill or clinically ill. He simply made the wrong choices. See him now, put him in a crowd of people and that lovely lad turns into a complete idiot. He simply can't help himself. He is so easily led, if you told him to jump in front of a bus, he probably would...just for a laugh. That's the point though isn't it, they weren't strong enough=their state of mind. When you lose that state of mind, then all bets are off. Anyhow, I have listened to your views and respect your replies, but I am going to have to leave it there. None of them are clinically depressed. None of them would blame depression for the choices they made. Clarke Carlisle, in my opinion, is hiding behind depression as an excuse for his shameful behaviour, and he does nothing to enhance the cause of those who genuinely and tragically suffer chronic mental illnesses. In my opinion of course, which is what I expressed at the start. My view isn't a sweeping generalisation. It is a view of Clarke Carlisle's situation and I don't have sympathy for his current plight. My sympathy is reserved for his wife, his child/children and for the driver of the vehicle that hit him who will be traumatised for the rest of his life.
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