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Post by Pugsley on Feb 9, 2015 23:01:11 GMT
Dear Geoff. Do you know Tony Pulis personally? Come on, admit it! Geoff is Dave Kemp. No question. What time are the cones going out tomorrow Kempy?
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Post by discokaraoke on Feb 9, 2015 23:01:20 GMT
Each individual fan can express a subjective view of Pulisball and there will be hugely different views of the quality of it and in that respect Mark Wolstanton is perfectly entitled to his view. Where the views expressed by Mark hold no validity is when you get onto hard facts and statistics, in fact he rarely if ever refers to any facts. According to him Pulisball is the death knell of football and yet Stoke had their highest ever average gates, reached their first ever Cup Final, went further into Europe than ever before and maintained their poison as a PL club. If anyone on this Board wants to have a serious argument about the achievements of Tony Pulis, let them start by trying to deny the facts and statistics. What gets my blood boiling over this, is that sir peter never gets any praise for our achievements! Without the serious backing from him, we wouldn't even be in the prem. Pulis is not GOD! The backing he got, any half decent manager would have achieved similar! Keep up the good work Peter Coates
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Post by sheikhmomo on Feb 9, 2015 23:03:18 GMT
I'm not trying to convince you that your eyes are wrong. If we all saw the game the same way it'd be pointless going. What I'm saying is you steadfastly refuse to give the man the credit he richly deserves And I'm saying that a manager who sets out to reduce football to nothing more than a death struggle every single fucking week won't get a jot of credit from me. If you want to applaud such blatantly destructive and frankly cowardly methods that is up to you. I'll save my plaudits for managers who have the belief and vision to set out to win football matches. Managers like Mark Hughes for example. Do you understand? I just haven't time for a well funded manager who is so scared of defeat never mind glorify him because it worked for a while. I'll try again on the off chance anyone reasonable is at home. Was that the same period that saw us record the biggest semi final win at the new Wembley, beat Newcastle 4-0, draw with Chelsea, beat Wolves 3-0 and Arsenal 3-1 before turning up battered, bruised and bandaged up before giving a team worth 300M a game in our only Cup Final appearance? You're right truly horrific times to be a Stoke fan. I don't know how I got through it all, looking back. Read more: oatcakefanzine.proboards.com/thread/239983/pulis-bring?page=14#ixzz3RI9X66SZ
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Post by upthefud on Feb 9, 2015 23:04:15 GMT
Each individual fan can express a subjective view of Pulisball and there will be hugely different views of the quality of it and in that respect Mark Wolstanton is perfectly entitled to his view. Where the views expressed by Mark hold no validity is when you get onto hard facts and statistics, in fact he rarely if ever refers to any facts. According to him Pulisball is the death knell of football and yet Stoke had their highest ever average gates, reached their first ever Cup Final, went further into Europe than ever before and maintained their poison as a PL club. If anyone on this Board wants to have a serious argument about the achievements of Tony Pulis, let them start by trying to deny the facts and statistics. What gets my blood boiling over this, is that sir peter never gets any praise for our achievements! Without the serious backing from him, we wouldn't even be in the prem. Pulis is not GOD! The backing he got, any half decent manager would have achieved similar! Keep up the good work Peter Coates Any half decent manager? Were Pulis' antics at Palace luck? Coates gets a lot if credit and you're just a sad bitter man because Tony Pulis proved you wrong
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Post by MarkWolstanton on Feb 9, 2015 23:05:33 GMT
Each individual fan can express a subjective view of Pulisball and there will be hugely different views of the quality of it and in that respect Mark Wolstanton is perfectly entitled to his view. Where the views expressed by Mark hold no validity is when you get onto hard facts and statistics, in fact he rarely if ever refers to any facts. According to him Pulisball is the death knell of football and yet Stoke had their highest ever average gates, reached their first ever Cup Final, went further into Europe than ever before and maintained their poison as a PL club. If anyone on this Board wants to have a serious argument about the achievements of Tony Pulis, let them start by trying to deny the facts and statistics. What gets my blood boiling over this, is that sir peter never gets any praise for our achievements! Without the serious backing from him, we wouldn't even be in the prem. Pulis is not GOD! The backing he got, any half decent manager would have achieved similar! Keep up the good work Peter Coates This ignorance regarding the game changing input of the Coated family is the root of the only Pulis could have done it bollocks you hear spouted and the Tone proved you wrong shite. People can speak for themselves but Pulis proved me bang on the money. Coates meant it took a while and he made sure it never got to its final conclusion by sacking the bugger but I forgive him for that.
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Post by upthefud on Feb 9, 2015 23:07:56 GMT
And I'm saying that a manager who sets out to reduce football to nothing more than a death struggle every single fucking week won't get a jot of credit from me. If you want to applaud such blatantly destructive and frankly cowardly methods that is up to you. I'll save my plaudits for managers who have the belief and vision to set out to win football matches. Managers like Mark Hughes for example. Do you understand? I just haven't time for a well funded manager who is so scared of defeat never mind glorify him because it worked for a while. I'll try again on the off chance anyone reasonable is at home. Was that the same period that saw us record the biggest semi final win at the new Wembley, beat Newcastle 4-0, draw with Chelsea, beat Wolves 3-0 and Arsenal 3-1 before turning up battered, bruised and bandaged up before giving a team worth 300M a game in our only Cup Final appearance? You're right truly horrific times to be a Stoke fan. I don't know how I got through it all, looking back. Read more: oatcakefanzine.proboards.com/thread/239983/pulis-bring?page=14#ixzz3RI9X66SZThere are too many good times to list. Coventry away, Hull away, West Brom away, THE Villa game, the Arsenal games Yes, there were shit times, but given the success he brought I can live with the odd 0-0 here and there. It's bitterness
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Post by Deleted on Feb 9, 2015 23:08:39 GMT
According to him Pulisball is the death knell of football and yet Stoke had their highest ever average gates, reached their first ever Cup Final, went further into Europe than ever before and maintained their poison as a PL club. "Poison" You got that bit right.
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Post by geoff321 on Feb 9, 2015 23:08:52 GMT
For those people who think taking Stoke into the PL and keeping them there was easy and any half decent manager could do it, tell that to the Chairman of :
Derby/Middlesborough/Ipswich/Norwich/Wolves/Blackburn/Sheff. W./Birmingham/Notts Forrest/Fulham/Cardiff/Charlton/Leeds/Blackpool/Wigan.
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Post by discokaraoke on Feb 9, 2015 23:09:28 GMT
He left a club he nearly relegated, We had all the luck you needed to get to a cup final that year, and the bollox about he delivered European football was a result by default ! I presume you wont be going to the Cup Final of we make it this year then? We've beat Trentham Romans and Blue Mugge so far (and were second best for long periods of both matches) Pathetic stuff, eh? Yea, and a blue mugge have just knocked out Chelsea on there patch.
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Post by Pugsley on Feb 9, 2015 23:11:04 GMT
You really have to wonder why he was sacked (twice).
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Post by Olgrligm on Feb 9, 2015 23:11:52 GMT
Have you read any Marksman columns from the promotion season? I accidentally came across one the other day, it was great.
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Post by geoff321 on Feb 9, 2015 23:12:17 GMT
Many managers have been sacked twice Pugs, would you like me to name a few?
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Post by sheikhmomo on Feb 9, 2015 23:12:47 GMT
I'll try again on the off chance anyone reasonable is at home. Was that the same period that saw us record the biggest semi final win at the new Wembley, beat Newcastle 4-0, draw with Chelsea, beat Wolves 3-0 and Arsenal 3-1 before turning up battered, bruised and bandaged up before giving a team worth 300M a game in our only Cup Final appearance? You're right truly horrific times to be a Stoke fan. I don't know how I got through it all, looking back. Read more: oatcakefanzine.proboards.com/thread/239983/pulis-bring?page=14#ixzz3RI9X66SZThere are too many good times to list. Coventry away, Hull away, West Brom away, THE Villa game, the Arsenal games Yes, there were shit times, but given the success he brought I can live with the odd 0-0 here and there. It's bitterness Don't be daft mate, it was the holocaust decade. Unbelievable low times. The objective, agenda free, fair minded people have spoken.
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Post by Davef on Feb 9, 2015 23:12:55 GMT
For those people who think taking Stoke into the PL and keeping them there was easy and any half decent manager could do it, tell that to the Chairman of : Derby/Middlesborough/Ipswich/Norwich/Wolves/Blackburn/Sheff. W./Birmingham/Notts Forrest/Fulham/Cardiff/Charlton/Leeds/Blackpool/Wigan. Peter Coates was obviously very grateful to Tony for guiding us to promotion and five years of Premier League football, but he clearly felt we were in danger of following those clubs didn't he?
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Post by MarkWolstanton on Feb 9, 2015 23:13:11 GMT
For those people who think taking Stoke into the PL and keeping them there was easy and any half decent manager could do it, tell that to the Chairman of : Derby/Middlesborough/Ipswich/Norwich/Wolves/Blackburn/Sheff. W./Birmingham/Notts Forrest/Fulham/Cardiff/Charlton/Leeds/Blackpool/Wigan. Erm. Barring Blackpool and Cardiff do you need anyone to point out how fucking stupid that post is Geoff? I think you need your statistics book back out sunshine.
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Post by upthefud on Feb 9, 2015 23:13:35 GMT
For those people who think taking Stoke into the PL and keeping them there was easy and any half decent manager could do it, tell that to the Chairman of : Derby/Middlesborough/Ipswich/Norwich/Wolves/Blackburn/Sheff. W./Birmingham/Notts Forrest/Fulham/Cardiff/Charlton/Leeds/Blackpool/Wigan. I'm on your side here Geoff, but I'd take out Blackpool, Wigan and Fulham. Wigan and Fulham had cracking runs and Blackpool getting up on their budget was a fluke I'd add Sheffield United, Leicester and QPR despite the latter twos current status
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Post by Pugsley on Feb 9, 2015 23:13:56 GMT
Many managers have been sacked twice Pugs, would you like me to name a few? For the same thing? His results were, it could be argued exceptional, why isn't he still here?
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Post by Deleted on Feb 9, 2015 23:14:16 GMT
For those people who think taking Stoke into the PL and keeping them there was easy and any half decent manager could do it, tell that to the Chairman of : Derby/Middlesborough/Ipswich/Norwich/Wolves/Blackburn/Sheff. W./Birmingham/Notts Forrest/Fulham/Cardiff/Charlton/Leeds/Blackpool/Wigan. Or Swansea/Sunderland/Southampton/West Brom/West Ham...in the interest of a little more balance You conveniently forgot that after 'any half-decent manager' comes 'with comparatively huge funds at his disposal' but you perhaps knew that, and it's a pretty valid point Geoff.
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Post by upthefud on Feb 9, 2015 23:15:22 GMT
For those people who think taking Stoke into the PL and keeping them there was easy and any half decent manager could do it, tell that to the Chairman of : Derby/Middlesborough/Ipswich/Norwich/Wolves/Blackburn/Sheff. W./Birmingham/Notts Forrest/Fulham/Cardiff/Charlton/Leeds/Blackpool/Wigan. Peter Coates was obviously very grateful to Tony for guiding us to promotion and five years of Premier League football, but he clearly felt we were in danger of following those clubs didn't he? Not necessarily, wanting to move in another direction and fearing the drop are two different things. Coates made the right call but remains grateful for the fantastic job TP did
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Post by ParaPsych on Feb 9, 2015 23:16:07 GMT
We are dealing with the same level of idiocy here that thought the Championship's player of the season 07/08, despite so many goals and assists, was still wank well into halfway through that season.
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Post by sheikhmomo on Feb 9, 2015 23:16:45 GMT
Mr Coates seems to disagree with most of the ungrateful cunts on here. Stoke chairman Peter Coates has spoken exclusively to Mark Holmes about the club's incredible journey from the Championship to an FA Cup final.
When Peter Coates bought Stoke City back in 2006, not even the man himself dreamt where the club would be five years later.
A local businessman and lifelong supporter of the Potters, Coates bought out the Icelandic consortium he had sold the club to some six years earlier following a first spell in charge the 73-year-old describes as "varied".
Stoke had gone close to the Premier League before under Coates' ownership, losing out in the play-offs to Leicester in 1996, but relegation from the second tier in 1998 led to vicious supporter protests and Coates' resignation as chairman.
He eventually sold to the Icelanders in 1999 and, although he retained a place on the board, Coates admits his decision to buy back the club was a difficult one.
"There was loads of supporter aggravation (at the end of the first spell)," he said. "You don't know whether you're doing the right thing (buying the club back) because it's a tough business and very difficult to get right."
However, Coates' family business, online bookmakers Bet365, had become a huge success in the intervening years and, with Stoke losing money, Coates felt he had to return.
"What happened to me the second time around was that because of the business success - my daughter (Denise) did a brilliant job for us on Bet365 and is responsible for its immense success along with my son, John - we were in a position where we had much more financial clout, and that was a factor," he said.
"The Icelanders had started off ok but it was going rapidly downhill. They'd been trying to sell the club for two years and had no takers. They couldn't find anybody.
"I saw the club getting into a bigger and bigger hole and that's why I took the decision (to buy it back)."
While Coates' decision to return to Stoke was seen as brave, his decision to re-appoint Tony Pulis was viewed by many as plain stupid.
Pulis had first been appointed in November 2002 after the Icelanders sacked the manager, Gudjon Thordarson, that had led them back into the Championship and then saw his replacement, Steve Cotterill, quit for Sunderland after just 13 games.
Pulis saved the club from relegation and subsequently established them in the second tier but he was sacked in the summer of 2005 for "failing to exploit the foreign market", the Icelanders said.
The relatively-unknown Johan Boskamp was appointed in his place and, although he did not improve results - Stoke finished one place lower, 13th, than they had the season before under Pulis - the Dutchman was popular among supporters, who had grown tired of the lack of goals scored in the final season of Pulis' spell and welcomed the change in approach.
Coates, though, never had any doubts about his first move after completing his takeover.
"I couldn't believe people couldn't see what a fantastic job he'd (Pulis) done," Coates said. "They were getting relegated until they (the Icelanders) brought him in, and they only did that because I persuaded them. Otherwise they'd have been relegated again.
"We had a guy named Boskamp, who was useless. But Tony Pulis saved the club from relegation and in the second year on a very small budget got them into mid-table. I thought he did a remarkable job."
Coates' ambition was for Stoke to be in the Premier League within five seasons - but they have achieved so much more. They were promoted in two and now, at the end of Coates' five-year plan, they sit eighth in the top flight ahead of their first ever FA Cup final.
"There was no master plan but in my head I thought that if we can get success in five years, and success to me was the Premier League, that would be good," Coates said. "It happened much sooner. We've had a fabulous five years and it's exceeded my wildest expectations.
"Sometimes you get on a roll in football and things go for you - well it went for us, and we did remarkably well I thought.
"The plan is to find yourself a good manager, and I got that right, and then back him with money and we did that, which I could only do because of the business I refer to (Bet365) and the family commitment in that business. We've put something like £50million into Stoke City.
"The twin reason for success is having the resources and having the management to do it. And we continue to do remarkably well because of the fantastic job Tony Pulis has done. I think he is the best manager we have ever had."
That is no small claim by Coates. Tony Waddington, who led the club to two top-five finishes in the First Division and a 1972 League Cup final victory, is held in the highest possible esteem by Potters fans - but Coates rates the achievements of Pulis more highly.
"I wouldn't want to undermine anything Tony Waddington did, because it was tremendous," Coates said. "I knew him personally and liked him very much, but it was easier then than it is now so you've got to elevate Tony Pulis' achievements beyond (what Waddington achieved).
"We're in a much tougher football environment. It was a much more even competition back then than it is today."
Despite the disparity that exists in football today, Stoke have achieved what can only be described as a meteoric rise and yet still continue to set their sights higher.
Pulis has always maintained the club can "push on" after surviving for three seasons and it is a claim Coates agrees with.
"Tony has made the sensible observation that after three years in the Premier League you feel more established," he said.
"It's very difficult to get players in when you're just promoted because people think you're going to be relegated. It's a very big leap up and you have to attract players to help you stay in the Premier League.
"But hopefully Tony is right that the longer you stay in the league, the most established you are. People look at you differently.
"We can't challenge Manchester United or Arsenal or Chelsea. They've got revenues probably £150million more than us, so what are you supposed to do about that?
"What do I see for the future? I see us trying to get better every year. Do I see us winning the Premier League? I think that's going to be difficult.
"But if we can establish ourselves as a good Premier League team it gives you a chance of having good cup runs."
Stoke have done exactly that this season and take on Manchester City at Wembley this weekend in the first FA Cup final of their 147-year history.
Coates added: "We're having a great time and it's fantastic. We're at Wembley 147 years later for an FA Cup final so it couldn't be better.
"Obviously we're hoping we're going to have a great day and if we won, well that would be absolutely fantastic."
Particularly like the Boskamp reference for the Bang Bus mob
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Post by upthefud on Feb 9, 2015 23:17:22 GMT
For those people who think taking Stoke into the PL and keeping them there was easy and any half decent manager could do it, tell that to the Chairman of : Derby/Middlesborough/Ipswich/Norwich/Wolves/Blackburn/Sheff. W./Birmingham/Notts Forrest/Fulham/Cardiff/Charlton/Leeds/Blackpool/Wigan. Or Swansea/Sunderland/Southampton/West Brom/West Ham In the interests of a little more balance Swansea and Saints good shout. The other two get a grip! At the time Pulis took us up we'd spent 26 years bumming about in the lower leagues. West Ham and Sunderland were fucking streets ahead of us. We were in L1 when West Brom began their yoyo adventure, we were streets ahead of them by the time TP left
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Post by Deleted on Feb 9, 2015 23:18:46 GMT
Many managers have been sacked twice Pugs, would you like me to name a few? For the same thing? His results were, it could be argued exceptional, why isn't he still here? Exceptional, even for the last season-and-a-half??
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Post by Pugsley on Feb 9, 2015 23:22:09 GMT
For the same thing? His results were, it could be argued exceptional, why isn't he still here? Exceptional, even for the last season-and-a-half?? Over the piece yes. They were tailing off yes, one of the reasons he had to go.
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Post by davejohnno1 on Feb 9, 2015 23:22:21 GMT
For those people who think taking Stoke into the PL and keeping them there was easy and any half decent manager could do it, tell that to the Chairman of : Derby/Middlesborough/Ipswich/Norwich/Wolves/Blackburn/Sheff. W./Birmingham/Notts Forrest/Fulham/Cardiff/Charlton/Leeds/Blackpool/Wigan. Phil brown kept hull up. Laudrup kept Swansea up, won them a trophy and won away in Valencia. Poyet kept Sunderland up. Hughes kept qpr up. He took a Blackburn side not long back in the premier league to a top 6 finish, a cup final and Europe. You could go on and on. TP did a great job at Stoke. With the backing he had, others could have succeeded just as others could have failed. I enjoyed the ride but his time will forever be tainted by abject surrenders, Valencia away and the pathetic 2 years that followed the cup final. I'd had enough by the time he left and was glad to see the back of him.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 9, 2015 23:23:33 GMT
Or Swansea/Sunderland/Southampton/West Brom/West Ham In the interests of a little more balance Swansea and Saints good shout. The other two get a grip! At the time Pulis took us up we'd spent 26 years bumming about in the lower leagues. West Ham and Sunderland were fucking streets ahead of us. We were in L1 when West Brom began their yoyo adventure, we were streets ahead of them by the time TP left Point taken, but WHU have spent time in the Championship since we've been in the Prem, so in essence, were at some stage, behind us; now they're up and established again..and flying, under the guidance of a 'dinosaur' manager. I'm not sure we were ever 'streets ahead' of WBA either. Fared better, yes.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 9, 2015 23:25:48 GMT
Exceptional, even for the last season-and-a-half?? Over the piece yes. They were tailing off yes, one of the reasons he had to go. Agreed. It was the last 18 months that did for him; sadly he unravelled a lot of his better work with that abject, relegation-form period.
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Post by discokaraoke on Feb 9, 2015 23:26:34 GMT
And I'm saying that a manager who sets out to reduce football to nothing more than a death struggle every single fucking week won't get a jot of credit from me. If you want to applaud such blatantly destructive and frankly cowardly methods that is up to you. I'll save my plaudits for managers who have the belief and vision to set out to win football matches. Managers like Mark Hughes for example. Do you understand? I just haven't time for a well funded manager who is so scared of defeat never mind glorify him because it worked for a while. I'll try again on the off chance anyone reasonable is at home. Was that the same period that saw us record the biggest semi final win at the new Wembley, beat Newcastle 4-0, draw with Chelsea, beat Wolves 3-0 and Arsenal 3-1 before turning up battered, bruised and bandaged up before giving a team worth 300M a game in our only Cup Final appearance? You're right truly horrific times to be a Stoke fan. I don't know how I got through it all, looking back. Read more: oatcakefanzine.proboards.com/thread/239983/pulis-bring?page=14#ixzz3RI9X66SZFair comment sheik, great times i must say, but i think our fans played a massive part as well, once the expectations increased we became a bit negative and that showed on the pitch. The football on offer in the end was mind numbing even after been one of the biggest net spenders in the transfer market.
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Post by MarkWolstanton on Feb 9, 2015 23:26:42 GMT
Where was the trend going then Geoff? Has that trend been reversed now perchance? Are you trying to tell me that the football methods adopted by Mr Pulis to achieve his success is one supporters crave to see? You can watch it to your hearts content. I'm just telling you that I never want to watch it's like again and if that means I don't get the glory of watching us defend our way through a cup final ever again I will take that all day long! Each to their own of course. Was that the same period that saw us record the biggest semi final win at the new Wembley, beat Newcastle 4-0, draw with Chelsea, beat Wolves 3-0 and Arsenal 3-1 before turning up battered, bruised and bandaged up before giving a team worth 300M a game in our only Cup Final appearance? You're right truly horrific times to be a Stoke fan. I don't know how I got through it all, looking back. How many times do I need to repeat the same thing? If you thought it was great to watch at the time good for you. I thought it was overwhelmingly shite and boring to watch for the most part. I want to enjoy watching my football if you don't mind and I happen to think that it was totally possible to achieve the Pulis record without the Pulis method. If you are content enough with your cherry picked quota of games where we didn't just stop the opposition Im delighted for you but for pity's sake don't bother trying to convince me I should be forever grateful for it.
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Post by geoff321 on Feb 9, 2015 23:29:09 GMT
Just for the record, the first half of the 2012/13 season was highly successful, by end of 2012 I think we had only lost 3 games and had 29 points.
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