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Post by chiefdelilah on Oct 19, 2014 19:42:52 GMT
Cameron was very good. Intelligent, kept the ball well, used it well. Just what we'd been missing for the first hour or so. Anyone who thinks Whelan doesn't influence games doesn't know anything about football. The first 70 minutes made it pretty clear that he does. Wilson had his usual game. Solid for the vast majority then a couple of dodgy moments where Ryan had to rescue him. I thought that would be your response mate. What, the sensible one?
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Post by Deleted on Oct 19, 2014 19:47:08 GMT
I thought that would be your response mate. What, the sensible one? I think Whelan is a decent player. He's certainly upped his game in recent months. He isn't the integral player some make out though. We've beaten a very good team without him today, and lost against two worst teams with him. Cameron absolutely bossed it when he came on. His positivity was a breath of fresh air and completely changed the match. As for Wilson, he was outstanding.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 19, 2014 19:49:58 GMT
I have been very scathing of Cameron in the past. He improved last season but is still not someone I would trust at right back.
HOWEVER, today I thought he was superb when he came on and disrupted Bony who was the focal point for all of Swansea's play. He dispossessed Bony a couple of times who until that point had looked untouchable. He added some much needed energy in midfield and we finally started to press them. We looked a lot more secure.
I would say he has to be up there competing with Whelan for a midfield holding role, I would never play both Ireland and Adam at the same time in midfield again after that first half. I thought Adam was superb but Ireland was forcing to go in areas he wouldn't usually and he wasn't happy
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Post by Deleted on Oct 19, 2014 19:52:40 GMT
I'd be tempted to drop NZonzi and go with Whelan and Cameron.
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Post by chiefdelilah on Oct 19, 2014 19:56:09 GMT
I think Whelan is a decent player. He's certainly upped his game in recent months. He isn't the integral player some make out though. We've beaten a very good team without him today, and lost against two worst teams with him. Cameron absolutely bossed it when he came on. His positivity was a breath of fresh air and completely changed the match. As for Wilson, he was outstanding. I didn't think he was any more 'positive' than Glenn to be honest. He was very good though and I'd start him at Southampton if Glenn's not fit. I thought we got away with it today. First half we were dreadful and they could have been three up. Wilson had for me his usual mostly good game but there were again a couple of heart in mouth bits that fortunately we got away with. He made some great clearances and did some good safety first stuff but got caught under the ball and done by Bony and Ryan had to save his arse and then did pretty much the same thing about 5 minutes later.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 19, 2014 19:58:42 GMT
Ok mate.
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Post by passtheoatcakes on Oct 19, 2014 20:17:55 GMT
Mmmm I'll have to disagree there. I thought Shawcross(penalty aside,which I need to see again) and Wilson were superb and kept Bony pretty quiet to be honest. They looked a good side going forward at times but Bony never looked like scoring. Both centre halves were shit scared of going near him and Swansea built every attack through him. He had oceans of space to pick out his man every time. Cameron used his footballing brain to suss out that Bony is useless on the deck when you come through the side of him quickly to knick the ball away, rather than playing in to him by going up his backside where he can and will roll you, or con a foul out of the ref. The result? Swansea couldn't hold the ball up anywhere near as much and started using the flanks more. Bony dropped deeper where Cameron could pick him up even easier and he ended up with a yellow after giving away a foul because he was rattled. Perfection. Spot on onlooker. Cameron put Bony well and truly in his pocket, so much that was coming through him was stopped dead in its tracks. I lost count of the number of critical GC tackles on Bony that morphed into driving attacks for our lads. Bony was made to look fairly ordinary by our Geoff, wonderful to watch as you say. Thought the other two subs did really well too, good day at the office for LMH and the lads.
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Post by steakandchips on Oct 19, 2014 20:20:05 GMT
I've never seen Geoff come out of a 50/50 tackle without the ball. It's his ability in porsession that sets him ahead of many of the other options in that position. He's earned a spell in the side with today's performance
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Post by boskampsflaps on Oct 19, 2014 20:23:48 GMT
Mmmm I'll have to disagree there. I thought Shawcross(penalty aside,which I need to see again) and Wilson were superb and kept Bony pretty quiet to be honest. They looked a good side going forward at times but Bony never looked like scoring. Both centre halves were shit scared of going near him and Swansea built every attack through him. He had oceans of space to pick out his man every time. Cameron used his footballing brain to suss out that Bony is useless on the deck when you come through the side of him quickly to knick the ball away, rather than playing in to him by going up his backside where he can and will roll you, or con a foul out of the ref. The result? Swansea couldn't hold the ball up anywhere near as much and started using the flanks more. Bony dropped deeper where Cameron could pick him up even easier and he ended up with a yellow after giving away a foul because he was rattled. Perfection. I saw that as having no protection in front of them tbh, completely changed when Cameron came on as he did a good job of covering.
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Post by boskampsflaps on Oct 19, 2014 20:24:35 GMT
Cameron was very good. Intelligent, kept the ball well, used it well. Just what we'd been missing for the first hour or so.
Anyone who thinks Whelan doesn't influence games doesn't know anything about football. The first 70 minutes made it pretty clear that he does.
Wilson had his usual game. Solid for the vast majority then a couple of dodgy moments where Ryan had to rescue him. Spot on.
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Post by mrpickles on Oct 19, 2014 20:52:28 GMT
I thought Wilson was really good today, although he still needs replacing.
Geoff won the game for us imo. He was exactly what we needed at the time he came on. Whelan was clearly missed, but Cameron stepped up big time. I'm genuinely excited about what he can offer in a Stoke shirt now this full back nonsense is out of the way (hopefully).
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Post by Pugsley on Oct 19, 2014 21:03:06 GMT
Cameron was very good. Intelligent, kept the ball well, used it well. Just what we'd been missing for the first hour or so. Anyone who thinks Whelan doesn't influence games doesn't know anything about football. The first 70 minutes made it pretty clear that he does. Wilson had his usual game. Solid for the vast majority then a couple of dodgy moments where Ryan had to rescue him. He doesn't influence games though does he? Influencing games means making the difference, creating chances, scoring goals, RUNNING the game. Whelan is a destroyer. Cameron showed us what can be done in that role - whether he can keep though performances going for 90 minutes week in week out is another argument but today he was superb. Wilson had a super game up against one of the toughest opponents anyone will face all season - one error when he misjudged a high ball and Ryan read it and cleared it. There are few defenders in world football that don't make a mistake a game.
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Post by boskampsflaps on Oct 19, 2014 21:05:33 GMT
I thought Wilson was really good today, although he still needs replacing. Geoff won the game for us imo. He was exactly what we needed at the time he came on. Whelan was clearly missed, but Cameron stepped up big time. I'm genuinely excited about what he can offer in a Stoke shirt now this full back nonsense is out of the way (hopefully). Really good but still needs replacing? What kind of message does that send out, have a great game, arguably motm, but nah, you can sit on the bench next game.
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Post by chiefdelilah on Oct 19, 2014 21:06:37 GMT
Cameron was very good. Intelligent, kept the ball well, used it well. Just what we'd been missing for the first hour or so. Anyone who thinks Whelan doesn't influence games doesn't know anything about football. The first 70 minutes made it pretty clear that he does. Wilson had his usual game. Solid for the vast majority then a couple of dodgy moments where Ryan had to rescue him. He doesn't influence games though does he? Influencing games means making the difference, creating chances, scoring goals, RUNNING the game. Whelan is a destroyer. Cameron showed us what can be done in that role - whether he can keep though performances going for 90 minutes week in week out is another argument but today he was superb. Wilson had a super game up against one of the toughest opponents anyone will face all season - one error when he misjudged a high ball and Ryan read it and cleared it. There are few defenders in world football that don't make a mistake a game. His 'one error' has proven costly a fair few times already though hasn't it? There's more than one way to influence a game. The fact that he were hideously disjointed and wide open throughout the first half made that pretty clear. Cameron had a strong 20 minute cameo that some are making out to be Pirlo mark II to enable them to stick the boot into Whelan, who they've got it in for regardless of how he actually performs.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 19, 2014 21:09:50 GMT
Cameron was very good. Intelligent, kept the ball well, used it well. Just what we'd been missing for the first hour or so. Anyone who thinks Whelan doesn't influence games doesn't know anything about football. The first 70 minutes made it pretty clear that he does. Wilson had his usual game. Solid for the vast majority then a couple of dodgy moments where Ryan had to rescue him. He doesn't influence games though does he? Influencing games means making the difference, creating chances, scoring goals, RUNNING the game. Whelan is a destroyer. Cameron showed us what can be done in that role - whether he can keep though performances going for 90 minutes week in week out is another argument but today he was superb. Wilson had a super game up against one of the toughest opponents anyone will face all season - one error when he misjudged a high ball and Ryan read it and cleared it. There are few defenders in world football that don't make a mistake a game. Spot on mate. Wilson was outstanding today yet some can't seem to bring themselves to acknowledge it for some reason.
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Post by mrpickles on Oct 19, 2014 21:12:55 GMT
I thought Wilson was really good today, although he still needs replacing. Geoff won the game for us imo. He was exactly what we needed at the time he came on. Whelan was clearly missed, but Cameron stepped up big time. I'm genuinely excited about what he can offer in a Stoke shirt now this full back nonsense is out of the way (hopefully). Really good but still needs replacing? What kind of message does that send out, have a great game, arguably motm, but nah, you can sit on the bench next game. Yep He played well today, but history tells us that he'll fuck up in the next few games. The lad isn't a centre back.
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Post by Pugsley on Oct 19, 2014 21:14:05 GMT
He doesn't influence games though does he? Influencing games means making the difference, creating chances, scoring goals, RUNNING the game. Whelan is a destroyer. Cameron showed us what can be done in that role - whether he can keep though performances going for 90 minutes week in week out is another argument but today he was superb. Wilson had a super game up against one of the toughest opponents anyone will face all season - one error when he misjudged a high ball and Ryan read it and cleared it. There are few defenders in world football that don't make a mistake a game. His 'one error' has proven costly a fair few times already though hasn't it? There's more than one way to influence a game. The fact that he were hideously disjointed and wide open throughout the first half made that pretty clear. Cameron had a strong 20 minute cameo that some are making out to be Pirlo mark II to enable them to stick the boot into Whelan, who they've got it in for regardless of how he actually performs. Yet it's OK for you to stick the boot in to Wilson? Whelan has been playing OK, but 20 minutes today gave us a glimpse of how the role should be played.
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Post by boskampsflaps on Oct 19, 2014 21:15:54 GMT
Really good but still needs replacing? What kind of message does that send out, have a great game, arguably motm, but nah, you can sit on the bench next game. Yep He played well today, but history tells us that he'll fuck up in the next few games. The lad isn't a centre back. The games he has played since Huths injury say different.
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Post by chiefdelilah on Oct 19, 2014 21:17:21 GMT
His 'one error' has proven costly a fair few times already though hasn't it? There's more than one way to influence a game. The fact that he were hideously disjointed and wide open throughout the first half made that pretty clear. Cameron had a strong 20 minute cameo that some are making out to be Pirlo mark II to enable them to stick the boot into Whelan, who they've got it in for regardless of how he actually performs. Yet it's OK for you to stick the boot in to Wilson? Whelan has been playing OK, but 20 minutes today gave us a glimpse of how the role should be played. How am I sticking the boot into him. I've praised the good things but also mention the bad. That's a world away from you openly saying you can't stand Whelan and won't ever accept that he's had a good game. What did he do that was so drastically different? He was strong, he kept the ball well, he found the wide players well.
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Post by chiefdelilah on Oct 19, 2014 21:18:11 GMT
He doesn't influence games though does he? Influencing games means making the difference, creating chances, scoring goals, RUNNING the game. Whelan is a destroyer. Cameron showed us what can be done in that role - whether he can keep though performances going for 90 minutes week in week out is another argument but today he was superb. Wilson had a super game up against one of the toughest opponents anyone will face all season - one error when he misjudged a high ball and Ryan read it and cleared it. There are few defenders in world football that don't make a mistake a game. Spot on mate. Wilson was outstanding today yet some can't seem to bring themselves to acknowledge it for some reason. Or they just see things differently?
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Post by mrpickles on Oct 19, 2014 21:20:53 GMT
Yep He played well today, but history tells us that he'll fuck up in the next few games. The lad isn't a centre back. The games he has played since Huths injury say different. Disagree He's had way too many brain farts in that time.
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Post by Pugsley on Oct 19, 2014 21:20:55 GMT
Yet it's OK for you to stick the boot in to Wilson? Whelan has been playing OK, but 20 minutes today gave us a glimpse of how the role should be played. How am I sticking the boot into him. I've praised the good things but also mention the bad. That's a world away from you openly saying you can't stand Whelan and won't ever accept that he's had a good game. What did he do that was so drastically different? He was strong, he kept the ball well, he found the wide players well. Passed it forward, carried the ball, went past players, didn't give away ridiculous free kicks, didn't spend all match facing his own goal and was looking to be positive. I'm looking forward to Wilson being replaced so we can keep a clean sheet every week. The way you lot go on you'd think he played like Paul Williams.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 19, 2014 21:21:13 GMT
Cameron was very good. Intelligent, kept the ball well, used it well. Just what we'd been missing for the first hour or so. Anyone who thinks Whelan doesn't influence games doesn't know anything about football. The first 70 minutes made it pretty clear that he does. Wilson had his usual game. Solid for the vast majority then a couple of dodgy moments where Ryan had to rescue him. He doesn't influence games though does he? Influencing games means making the difference, creating chances, scoring goals, RUNNING the game. Whelan is a destroyer. Cameron showed us what can be done in that role - whether he can keep though performances going for 90 minutes week in week out is another argument but today he was superb. Wilson had a super game up against one of the toughest opponents anyone will face all season - one error when he misjudged a high ball and Ryan read it and cleared it. There are few defenders in world football that don't make a mistake a game. Bang on the money
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Post by boskampsflaps on Oct 19, 2014 21:25:07 GMT
The games he has played since Huths injury say different. Disagree He's had way too many brain farts in that time. He has lost concentration no and then, but a lot of the crap he's been getting is unfair imo, some of the goals that are apparently his fault have been more down to bad luck than lack of ability, clears a difficult ball goes straight to the oppo and a few passes later they score and its apparently his fault, he even got the blame for hull goal utter crap, as I say he has a got a couple of things wrong, but I think he's been pretty good over all.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 19, 2014 21:36:07 GMT
I like Whelan, and at one stage, I never though I'd be saying that. However, I'd agree that Geoff today, brought more to the table than we're used to seeing in the CDM position. The weak link for me is N'Zonzi, who flatters to deceive a lot of the time. Too slow, ponderous, often too 'safe', good on the ball and tidy enough but not a 'scruff of the neck' midfielder.
As someone said, I'd be tempted to try Whelan and Cameron in there after today. Geoff displayed good mobility, again good ability to stick a foot in, wins the ball pretty often, and drives forward better than N'Zonzi does, if today's anything to go by.
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Post by chiefdelilah on Oct 19, 2014 21:38:14 GMT
How am I sticking the boot into him. I've praised the good things but also mention the bad. That's a world away from you openly saying you can't stand Whelan and won't ever accept that he's had a good game. What did he do that was so drastically different? He was strong, he kept the ball well, he found the wide players well. Passed it forward, carried the ball, went past players, didn't give away ridiculous free kicks, didn't spend all match facing his own goal and was looking to be positive. I'm looking forward to Wilson being replaced so we can keep a clean sheet every week. The way you lot go on you'd think he played like Paul Williams. Again, the suggestion that Whelan never does any of that stuff is just blinkered rubbish.
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Post by mrpickles on Oct 19, 2014 21:40:53 GMT
Disagree He's had way too many brain farts in that time. He has lost concentration no and then, but a lot of the crap he's been getting is unfair imo, some of the goals that are apparently his fault have been more down to bad luck than lack of ability, clears a difficult ball goes straight to the oppo and a few passes later they score and its apparently his fault, he even got the blame for hull goal utter crap, as I say he has a got a couple of things wrong, but I think he's been pretty good over all. The most annoying thing about Wilson is, that he actually has the ability to be a centre half. Sadly, losing concentration 'now and then' (and then some more) completely rules out the possibility of him becoming a decent long term option there.
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Post by chiefdelilah on Oct 19, 2014 21:43:36 GMT
Cameron completed 100% of his passes today.
5 went forward, 3 went square, 7 went backward.
Very good DM display but Rivelino he was not.
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Post by Pugsley on Oct 19, 2014 21:47:30 GMT
Passed it forward, carried the ball, went past players, didn't give away ridiculous free kicks, didn't spend all match facing his own goal and was looking to be positive. I'm looking forward to Wilson being replaced so we can keep a clean sheet every week. The way you lot go on you'd think he played like Paul Williams. Again, the suggestion that Whelan never does any of that stuff is just blinkered rubbish. In your opinion, which doesn't make you right.
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Post by chiefdelilah on Oct 19, 2014 21:51:12 GMT
Again, the suggestion that Whelan never does any of that stuff is just blinkered rubbish. In your opinion, which doesn't make you right. Yeah but by your own admission your opinion is that Whelan is always poor because you don't like him. And the suggestion that he doesn't pass forward is pretty easy to disprove because it's, you know, bollocks.
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