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Geoffrey
Aug 19, 2014 16:09:39 GMT
via mobile
Post by unknown182 on Aug 19, 2014 16:09:39 GMT
If we get a decent offer then go for it. If there is a perfect time to cash in on him then this is it.
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Post by metalhead on Aug 19, 2014 16:16:11 GMT
Sorry, winning a throw isn't the same as creating a chance, certainly not post-Delap. You most certainly did mention the penalty as an indicator of him having "no idea". Read the thread back. Don't know if you are "at a different game" or not but you certainly aren't prepared to be objective on Cameron as you won't have it he ever does anything wrong and had written off Bardsley before he'd kicked a ball and have done so again after one game. Let's not pretend you're objective about this because you're not. OK, firstly, retaining possession albeit by a throw is far more effective than ballooning the ball behind the goal (something he rarely did) or losing it altogether. So yes, there is certainly some merit to winning a throw POST Delap. Actually, the penalty was mentioned before I said anything. I merely came back with what I thought regarding that penalty, that it was wishy washy at best. I've said time and time again that Cameron had bad performances too. I also said I don't remember him having as bad a performance as Bardsley did on Saturday. That's my opinion. Am I allowed one mein fuhrer?
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Post by wembley4372 on Aug 19, 2014 16:23:46 GMT
Is duck footing the ball to no-one in particular considered poor play?
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Post by chiefdelilah on Aug 19, 2014 16:24:15 GMT
Sorry, winning a throw isn't the same as creating a chance, certainly not post-Delap. You most certainly did mention the penalty as an indicator of him having "no idea". Read the thread back. Don't know if you are "at a different game" or not but you certainly aren't prepared to be objective on Cameron as you won't have it he ever does anything wrong and had written off Bardsley before he'd kicked a ball and have done so again after one game. Let's not pretend you're objective about this because you're not. OK, firstly, retaining possession albeit by a throw is far more effective than ballooning the ball behind the goal (something he rarely did) or losing it altogether. So yes, there is certainly some merit to winning a throw POST Delap. Actually, the penalty was mentioned before I said anything. I merely came back with what I thought regarding that penalty, that it was wishy washy at best. I've said time and time again that Cameron had bad performances too. I also said I don't remember him having as bad a performance as Bardsley did on Saturday. That's my opinion. Am I allowed one mein fuhrer? You're allowed an opinion, and I'm allowed to disagree with it. It's poor form to be champing at the bit to have a go at one of our new players just because he's replaced your hero though. I also don't agree that he rarely ballooned the ball behind the goal, which I saw him do all the time, or that he retained possession effectively well (must be all those 'complicated passes' he tries eh?). You said the penalty was a good example of why Bardsley "had no idea". Do I really have to go and dredge that back up? To try and dress up Bardsley's showing on Saturday as some kind of nightmare and suggest Geoof has never played that badly - fair enough, that's your opinion, to me it smacks of someone massively biased who had more than made his mind up about Bardsley before he'd even played for us.
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Post by metalhead on Aug 19, 2014 17:00:48 GMT
OK, firstly, retaining possession albeit by a throw is far more effective than ballooning the ball behind the goal (something he rarely did) or losing it altogether. So yes, there is certainly some merit to winning a throw POST Delap. Actually, the penalty was mentioned before I said anything. I merely came back with what I thought regarding that penalty, that it was wishy washy at best. I've said time and time again that Cameron had bad performances too. I also said I don't remember him having as bad a performance as Bardsley did on Saturday. That's my opinion. Am I allowed one mein fuhrer? You're allowed an opinion, and I'm allowed to disagree with it. It's poor form to be champing at the bit to have a go at one of our new players just because he's replaced your hero though. I also don't agree that he rarely ballooned the ball behind the goal, which I saw him do all the time, or that he retained possession effectively well (must be all those 'complicated passes' he tries eh?). You said the penalty was a good example of why Bardsley "had no idea". Do I really have to go and dredge that back up? To try and dress up Bardsley's showing on Saturday as some kind of nightmare and suggest Geoof has never played that badly - fair enough, that's your opinion, to me it smacks of someone massively biased who had more than made his mind up about Bardsley before he'd even played for us. Lol... you really think Cameron is my hero? All I want is for Stoke City to do well. I want the best for the team. I have no player agenda as such. I don't like him because of that, and I don't hate him because of something else. I merely go on what I see and what I think. If Bardsley has a great game on Sunday I will come out and say well done Phil. I'll be at the game and I will say afterwards what I think. Now lucky for those who aren't going, it's also on TV, so they can have an opinion too. If Bardsley plays shit again are we going to stick with the whole "new player bashing theme" Chief? Or are we going to start saying perhaps Cameron deserves another chance? I wonder if he has two or three poor games whether you'll still be making excuses, all to keep our natural right back eh?
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Post by stokefaninde on Aug 19, 2014 17:41:01 GMT
It makes total sense that Wingie and Geoff were left out of the lineup due to arriving back to the team so late. It wouldn't make sense to leave two internationals that got out of the group stage and did pretty well (except Cam vs. Portugal of course) for any other reason.
It doesn't make sense to be so critical of an international that is wanted by 9 different teams, obviously others see something in the lad.
On the other hand, it doesn't make sense to write off Bardsley after on match. I don't know how it will sort out, but I am sure it will be.
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Post by chiefdelilah on Aug 19, 2014 17:47:55 GMT
You're allowed an opinion, and I'm allowed to disagree with it. It's poor form to be champing at the bit to have a go at one of our new players just because he's replaced your hero though. I also don't agree that he rarely ballooned the ball behind the goal, which I saw him do all the time, or that he retained possession effectively well (must be all those 'complicated passes' he tries eh?). You said the penalty was a good example of why Bardsley "had no idea". Do I really have to go and dredge that back up? To try and dress up Bardsley's showing on Saturday as some kind of nightmare and suggest Geoof has never played that badly - fair enough, that's your opinion, to me it smacks of someone massively biased who had more than made his mind up about Bardsley before he'd even played for us. Lol... you really think Cameron is my hero? All I want is for Stoke City to do well. I want the best for the team. I have no player agenda as such. I don't like him because of that, and I don't hate him because of something else. I merely go on what I see and what I think. If Bardsley has a great game on Sunday I will come out and say well done Phil. I'll be at the game and I will say afterwards what I think. Now lucky for those who aren't going, it's also on TV, so they can have an opinion too. If Bardsley plays shit again are we going to stick with the whole "new player bashing theme" Chief? Or are we going to start saying perhaps Cameron deserves another chance? I wonder if he has two or three poor games whether you'll still be making excuses, all to keep our natural right back eh? I don't make excuses - if someone plays well I say so. Likewise if they don't. Bit rich of you to point the finger considering that a) last season you had hissy fits if anyone thought Cameron had been poor and b) you were dismissing Bardsley as a donkey before he'd kicked a ball and slated him on the strength of one game.
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Post by mrcoke on Aug 19, 2014 18:38:27 GMT
I like Geoff and think he is our best RB and he also offers cover for other positions too. However it does seem that the manager prefers Bardsley at RB. I don´t see Cameron being happy as a regular sub so if we can get a suitable fee for him it would make sense for all parties to let him go. Personally I see him as being worth about 5M.It is clear that many on here have not appreciated Cameron as a player and see Phil Bardsley as a major upgrade. I have read a few reactions from Sunderland sites and articles about Bardsley´s departure and have concluded that whilst he did have some fans he was seen as a "marmite" player with most on the don´t like side. Some compared him to Danny Collins and Nyron Nosworthy; both players who also seemed to divide the Sunderland fan base. Half that amount is being rumoured here: www.clubcall.com/hull-city/hull-mull-cameron-swoop-1736867.html?
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Post by slpmarc on Aug 19, 2014 19:13:33 GMT
If Geoff does leave it will not be too Hull, Balls on the line It WONT be Hull
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Post by arnieforpresident on Aug 19, 2014 19:30:15 GMT
Can't help that think the players up for grabs are the players we have that put a shift in, we could do without clearing to many of these types.
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Geoffrey
Aug 19, 2014 19:32:16 GMT
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Post by metalhead on Aug 19, 2014 19:32:16 GMT
Lol... you really think Cameron is my hero? All I want is for Stoke City to do well. I want the best for the team. I have no player agenda as such. I don't like him because of that, and I don't hate him because of something else. I merely go on what I see and what I think. If Bardsley has a great game on Sunday I will come out and say well done Phil. I'll be at the game and I will say afterwards what I think. Now lucky for those who aren't going, it's also on TV, so they can have an opinion too. If Bardsley plays shit again are we going to stick with the whole "new player bashing theme" Chief? Or are we going to start saying perhaps Cameron deserves another chance? I wonder if he has two or three poor games whether you'll still be making excuses, all to keep our natural right back eh? I don't make excuses - if someone plays well I say so. Likewise if they don't. Bit rich of you to point the finger considering that a) last season you had hissy fits if anyone thought Cameron had been poor and b) you were dismissing Bardsley as a donkey before he'd kicked a ball and slated him on the strength of one game. *sigh* I give up. I didn't have hissy fits at all. Utter tosh. I merely gave my opinion, just like haters gave theirs.
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Post by Olgrligm on Aug 19, 2014 19:37:05 GMT
Our support has been quite peculiar in recent years in that it has been very quick to run down our players in the most extreme terms due to a starry-eyed obsession with other players.
I'm not talking about the writing off of Bardsley by the Geoff Gang, or even the systematic reduction through propaganda of a loyal servant like Wilko (who has suddenly had a great deal of completely fictitious waist high challenges credited to him, along with a load of equally fictitious goals and free kicks given away) from stalwart, dependable full-back to third division comedy act. In the past few years we've seen Mama (!!) and Fuller (!!!) run down so as to big up Tuncay (!!!!!!!), while both Delap and Whelan have had their faults exaggerated over the years so as to push the cause of Whitehead and Wilson. I'm sure most people remember the slightly bizarre campaign held against Danny Higginbotham by the Danny Collins fan club. It's quite comical in retrospect, but I'm sure it's not a healthy situation that we've got right now.
Do other clubs do this? Did it happen in the past? Was Banks written off as a has-been who nearly cost England the World Cup with a series of fictional mishaps and neck high lunges by the John Farmer fan club, who would tell anybody who listened that he was Stoke's best player in the 1966/7 season? Were there those whose support for Bob McGrory, long after he left Stoke, meant that they were strongly opposed to Matthews returning?
EDIT: For what it's worth, I am in no way opposed to Cameron. I feel that he is a very, very poor right back and I can count the good games he had last season on one hand. However, I can see his positive qualities and I think he could have a role to play as a squad filler in the defensive midfield and centre back positions. I find it a little odd that neither Pulis nor Hughes chose to deploy him in his favoured central position, despite both of them facing genuine centre back crises around Christmastime in the last couple of seasons. I'd like to see him get a chance there, along with a chance to play in midfield. Unfortunately, he's probably well down the pecking order in those positions (depending on Texeira's standing in the squad, he could be as low down as sixth choice at centre-back and fourth choice in midfield) and we may not see him given a chance. Obviously, I have no idea about the details of the dressing room, but I've seen nothing to suggest that he's a bad figure to have around, so if he would be satisfied with a Danny Pugh sort of role then that would probably be good for us. If not then I guess he'd be best advised to seek employment elsewhere and we should cash in before he hits 30.
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Geoffrey
Aug 19, 2014 19:40:18 GMT
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Post by stokiejoe on Aug 19, 2014 19:40:18 GMT
I don't make excuses - if someone plays well I say so. Likewise if they don't. Bit rich of you to point the finger considering that a) last season you had hissy fits if anyone thought Cameron had been poor and b) you were dismissing Bardsley as a donkey before he'd kicked a ball and slated him on the strength of one game. *sigh* I give up. I didn't have hissy fits at all. Utter tosh. I merely gave my opinion, just like haters gave theirs. "haters" or posters with a different opinion?
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Post by metalhead on Aug 19, 2014 19:51:01 GMT
*sigh* I give up. I didn't have hissy fits at all. Utter tosh. I merely gave my opinion, just like haters gave theirs. "haters" or posters with a different opinion? A poster with a different opinion can usually spot the positives as well as negatives, like his excellent performance against Ghana followed by a nightmare against Portugal. Haters think he played shit in both. There's a few.
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Geoffrey
Aug 19, 2014 20:00:31 GMT
via mobile
Post by stokiejoe on Aug 19, 2014 20:00:31 GMT
"haters" or posters with a different opinion? A poster with a different opinion can usually spot the positives as well as negatives, like his excellent performance against Ghana followed by a nightmare against Portugal. Haters think he played shit in both. There's a few. Just checked black over the four pages of this thread and can't find anyone who came even close to saying that, not even found anyone who didn't give him credit for how he has played in a position he himself says is not his best. Please correct me if I have missed something.
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Post by claudinho on Aug 19, 2014 20:17:05 GMT
If Schalke want Geoff, godspeed sir. What a wonderful opportunity for you.
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Post by claudinho on Aug 19, 2014 20:23:26 GMT
Last season we had the Adam v Ireland debate and after just 1 match we are into debates on Cameron v Bardsley, Ireland v Bojan, Diouf v Crouch v Odemwingie (or some combination), Wilson v Huth, Pieters v Muniesa, and Odemwingie v Moses. Regarding Cameron v Bardsley, I can see the arguments for both. I certainly think Bardsley did well for his first match and that was without Odemwingie or Walters in front of him, who do held their FB/Cameron. The lack of progress down the right wing was not entirely Bardsley's fault and I think Geoff would have struggled on Saturday. I am a big fan of Geoff. He was one of our best players first half of last season. I do recognize though that he has his limitations and wonder if he is truly a top half Prem class player. On Saturday I wondered who MH would have replaced Bardsley with when he went down with an injury. I certainly think it is too soon to sell Cameron who could be a great centre- back/ defensive mid-fielder given chance to develop in the role. At the end of the day we should all recognize that football is a team game and not entirely about individuals but how individuals perform together. The classic case being Greaves (the greatest goal scorer in English football history) being left out of Ramsey's world cup winning side. Synergy is more important than individual brilliance (unless you are talking Maradona etc.) MH needs to find that best combination of the talent that he (and TP) has assembled, which may well not be the best XI individuals. Excellent post lol
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Post by slpmarc on Aug 19, 2014 20:50:34 GMT
Schalke want him but think Soton would be favourites if he did leave
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Post by Deleted on Aug 19, 2014 20:51:43 GMT
Schalke want him but think Soton would be favourites if he did leave Is that 2+2 = Beswicks + Rodriguez?
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Post by slpmarc on Aug 19, 2014 21:00:45 GMT
Schalke want him but think Soton would be favourites if he did leave Is that 2+2 = Beswicks + Rodriguez? Would imagine having relationships with the club would help. Soton have enquired along side WBA and hull
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Geoffrey
Aug 19, 2014 23:45:56 GMT
via mobile
Post by malteser68 on Aug 19, 2014 23:45:56 GMT
I hope this gets resolved because it's looking like we might end up with Bardsley and Wilko at RB.... Fuck... That's better than Cameron and Wilko at RB IMO, Bardsley is a decent premier league fullback - he'll never be top 4 standard but he's perfectly good enough for us this season. im sure there's better than wilko in most pub teams . I'd bet my last penny that if he's put on the transfer list not even a championship side would be in for him
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Geoffrey
Aug 19, 2014 23:49:15 GMT
via mobile
Post by malteser68 on Aug 19, 2014 23:49:15 GMT
I would play him on Sunday......instead of Whelan. i.e. same role as he had for USA v Belgium. believe he deserves a shot at that role
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Post by mrcoke on Aug 20, 2014 10:54:48 GMT
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Post by FullerMagic on Aug 25, 2014 19:32:37 GMT
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Geoffrey
Aug 25, 2014 19:46:27 GMT
via mobile
Post by thedeadlyshart on Aug 25, 2014 19:46:27 GMT
After seeing all these rehashed stories of teams interested in geoff, and that he's put in a transfer request, I'm still predicting he'll be here through this window, but moving back to MLS in January.
We probably won't be selling him to a rival. Lazio might buy him, but I doubt he will get much game time. Whereas MLS will be able to pay more than we paid for him, he will be a focal point of the team, and they can give him a raise with a designated player salary.
Of course if bardsley gets injured this wouldn't happen, because he'll be playing regularly again.
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Post by jezzascfc on Aug 25, 2014 19:50:04 GMT
We don't need to sell, but if he wants to go.......the clock is ticking
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Post by mccfred on Aug 25, 2014 20:15:56 GMT
With how poor the back line has been thus far, id like to keep him around.
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Post by jezzascfc on Aug 25, 2014 20:21:51 GMT
SLP suggesting Lazio interest is not just paper talk.....
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Post by FullerMagic on Aug 25, 2014 20:27:27 GMT
SLP suggesting Lazio interest is not just paper talk..... Well, you could certainly see the attraction from his point of view! A villa on the outskirts of Rome sounds pretty nice. But Lazio don't seem to be the force they once were, and Serie A isn't what it was. Their last wage bill seems to be about £10m-a-year lower than ours, which does tell you about the financial inbalance between the leagues. Personally, I'd have him in our first XI - so the discussion would be moot. But while he stays on the periphery, he and his camp will no doubt be pushing hard over the next week
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Post by malteser68 on Aug 26, 2014 5:06:27 GMT
A lot of people on this board like to dismiss Geoff as a very poor player and an awful right full back. And yet there is interest in him from a whole host of PL teams plus Lazio and Stuttgart. Would these same teams entertain the sane interest if we had to offer them the extremely talented local boy club hero Andy wilkinson ?
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