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Post by Deleted on Aug 19, 2014 8:25:15 GMT
Danny Collins and Nyron Nosworthy divided the Sunderland fan base? Into 2 camps? "They're both abysmal" and "They're both worse than abysmal" I'm in both camps.
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Post by thepremierbanksy on Aug 19, 2014 8:25:28 GMT
Not got anything against Cameron as a player but now we've signed Bardsley, whether he's an improvement or not, he's got to go.
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Post by roylandstoke on Aug 19, 2014 8:45:43 GMT
Danny Collins and Nyron Nosworthy divided the Sunderland fan base? Into 2 camps? "They're both abysmal" and "They're both worse than abysmal" I'm in both camps. Some put Phil Bardsley into the same two camps.
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Post by roosterscomb on Aug 19, 2014 8:49:37 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Aug 19, 2014 8:51:20 GMT
jesus hates christ!!!
has everyone forgotten this was Bardsley's FIRST game!!!!!
he was no worse than anyone else on the pitch (but let's not let the bed wetters know that when they're busy trying to sell new players after ONE bad game eh!)
i presume on that logic we're also selling Shawcross, Begovic, Ireland, Whelan, Arnie and Wilson yeah? or is the venom just reserved for players that are making their debut so people can hysterically overreact and spout utter shit?
fucking ridiculous this board is at times.
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Geoffrey
Aug 19, 2014 8:54:16 GMT
via mobile
Post by foxysgloves on Aug 19, 2014 8:54:16 GMT
"Cameron's people" Who are these people?
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Post by Deleted on Aug 19, 2014 8:56:06 GMT
"Cameron's people" Who are these people?
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Post by Clem Fandango on Aug 19, 2014 8:56:31 GMT
I think he'd do a decent job in midfield he certainly has the energy to do a job similar to Whelan's he's also not afraid to run with the ball which I think was exactly what was missing from Saturday's performance. The only issue I have with Cameron is whether he's disciplined enough to play in the role.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 19, 2014 8:58:21 GMT
Don't think he's a right back, but he's a useful member of the squad. There are certainly others I'd let go before him!
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Geoffrey
Aug 19, 2014 8:58:20 GMT
via mobile
Post by foxysgloves on Aug 19, 2014 8:58:20 GMT
"Cameron's people" Who are these people? Exactly what i was thinking!!
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Post by crownmeking on Aug 19, 2014 9:04:24 GMT
jesus hates christ!!! has everyone forgotten this was Bardsley's FIRST game!!!!! he was no worse than anyone else on the pitch (but let's not let the bed wetters know that when they're busy trying to sell new players after ONE bad game eh!) i presume on that logic we're also selling Shawcross, Begovic, Ireland, Whelan, Arnie and Wilson yeah? or is the venom just reserved for players that are making their debut so people can hysterically overreact and spout utter shit? fucking ridiculous this board is at times. Clearly the bed wetters didn't have the plastic sheets on last night!!
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Post by Clayton Wood on Aug 19, 2014 9:06:59 GMT
"Cameron's people" Who are these people?
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Post by cousindupree on Aug 19, 2014 9:12:17 GMT
Bardsley in and Cameron out reduces the flexibility of the squad.Cameron was possibly the only option to Whelan as DM cover. Poor business Hughes.Lets hope Bardsley improves on his poor debut but we still lose a very valuable squad player
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Geoffrey
Aug 19, 2014 9:18:25 GMT
via mobile
Post by trickydicky73 on Aug 19, 2014 9:18:25 GMT
Can't say whether Bardsley is better, after one fairly middling performance in his debut, especially as he was covering all defensive and attacking duties on his own. One thing is for sure. Cameron ain't a right back. No positional discipline whatsoever. He's a good player, but where would we accommodate him in this system now? Instead of Whelan. I think Cameron is ideal for the holding role. There are far worse players in the squad that need shipping out.
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Post by metalhead on Aug 19, 2014 9:19:58 GMT
What a load of rubbish. Cameron is far more effective pushing forward and actually has the ball control to link up play. Bardsley piled forward like a school child with ADHD. Lots of enthusiasm, no idea. His penalty shout was a good example of that. Still better not be too negative, he's the Oatcake Messiah. So when Cameron goes forward it's "effective" despite him not being able to pass or cross, but Bardsley actually making good runs and getting into dangerous positions is "like a school child?". And him having a half-decent shout for a penalty is an example of his ineptitude? I've obviously missed his 'great link up play', I've seen him shank a few out of touch unchallenged with the best of them. Must be great on Planet Geoff though. What a load of old shit. Can't pass? I'm pretty sure I posted a stat from last season that said he played more passes than anyone else in the team, and had an accuracy rating of 72% or something. He also played some of our best crosses last season. I won't deny that he put a few poor ones, but he also put some of our best. I love how CHW's forget the positive contribution he made while happily raising the negatives. He played plenty of good crosses that were either not scored, or not even attacked at all. Last season we missed so many chances, and Cameron created just as many of those as anyone. A half-decent shout for a penalty? Where do you sit...? Block 120, somewhere up in the clouds, or is that just where your head is? It was never a penalty in a million years and we would explode if a similar penalty had been given against us. It was a pretty hopeful long ball and Bardsley was never even getting to it. The defender came across and Bardsley threw himself into it. It wasn't even a half-decent penalty shout, it was a last ditch attempt of a player not getting to the ball. Sorry, which good runs do you speak of? I saw him make a couple of runs behind the full back only to mis-control the ball? Is that what you mean? Hell even the one where he won the corner, it was quite obviously a shit piece of control and if he had been able to bring it down, he'd have been able to put a cross in. Must be great on planet Phil? How are the Sunderland fans up there?
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Post by dozintheseventees on Aug 19, 2014 9:21:19 GMT
Bardsley in and Cameron out reduces the flexibility of the squad.Cameron was possibly the only option to Whelan as DM cover. Poor business Hughes.Lets hope Bardsley improves on his poor debut but we still lose a very valuable squad player Our squad is too large and we're paying too much in wages as a result. We've signed six new players. We can only get rid of players that others actually WANT to sign so it's inevitable that we'll lose one or two that we'd actually rather NOT lose. We can't move out the players we'd like to if other clubs aren't bidding for them. IMO, Geoff won't be the only 'valuable squad member' that will leave before the end of the window.
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Post by slpmarc on Aug 19, 2014 9:27:58 GMT
Those saying play in Whelan's role are part right, he could be a good DM but think his main attribute (athleticism) would be lost in a disciplined holding position, that's why I think him in Nzonzi's role would suit more. For one he would do a lot more getting up and down the pitch than Nzozni did especially against Villa, where Nzozni sat in Whelan's left pocket for the majority of the game, making it hard for the squad to push forward as a unit.
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Post by metalhead on Aug 19, 2014 9:28:28 GMT
jesus hates christ!!! has everyone forgotten this was Bardsley's FIRST game!!!!! he was no worse than anyone else on the pitch (but let's not let the bed wetters know that when they're busy trying to sell new players after ONE bad game eh!) i presume on that logic we're also selling Shawcross, Begovic, Ireland, Whelan, Arnie and Wilson yeah? or is the venom just reserved for players that are making their debut so people can hysterically overreact and spout utter shit? fucking ridiculous this board is at times. Mick, I normally agree with you but you are wrong. We're currently in a stage where our only other full back option may be leaving due to not getting a game. If he goes and Bardsley performs like that all season, we will be cursing our luck. I'm not saying drop him, I'm saying if he plays against Hull in a similar fashion to Saturday, then Cameron should return to the first team. The Premiership isn't a league for consistently bad performers. That's the difference. Shawcross doesn't perform consistently bad. Our only viewing of Bardsley was poor. If he's poor against Hull? Then Man City? How many chances Mick?
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Post by Deleted on Aug 19, 2014 9:31:03 GMT
jesus hates christ!!! has everyone forgotten this was Bardsley's FIRST game!!!!! he was no worse than anyone else on the pitch (but let's not let the bed wetters know that when they're busy trying to sell new players after ONE bad game eh!) i presume on that logic we're also selling Shawcross, Begovic, Ireland, Whelan, Arnie and Wilson yeah? or is the venom just reserved for players that are making their debut so people can hysterically overreact and spout utter shit? fucking ridiculous this board is at times. Mick, I normally agree with you but you are wrong. We're currently in a stage where our only other full back option may be leaving due to not getting a game. If he goes and Bardsley performs like that all season, we will be cursing our luck. I'm not saying drop him, I'm saying if he plays against Hull in a similar fashion to Saturday, then Cameron should return to the first team. The Premiership isn't a league for consistently bad performers. That's the difference. Shawcross doesn't perform consistently bad. Our only viewing of Bardsley was poor. If he's poor against Hull? Then Man City? How many chances Mick? but you yourself have used one particluar word in your opening few lines..."Consistently". yes if he plays like that week after week then i;'d agree but that's the same with the other 10 players who were largely shit as well. why have we decided that Bardsley WILL be consistently shit after just one game exactly?
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Post by realstokebloke on Aug 19, 2014 10:06:48 GMT
I like Geoffrey (& would like him to stay) but the fact is LMH simply can't have thought enough of him as a RB to bring in Bardsley - a position he doesn't want to play anyway longer term, so Geoff might even have been aware of / complicit with it.
So, as i see it, the RB ship has sailed for him. (Whether we have got the right replacement is still 'open' for me though.)
But now, from Cameron's viewpoint, he probably feels he might not get a look in within the MF either (especially with Sidwell arriving).
Ditto at CB.
Hence the speculation and probably some fire behind the smoke I'd have thought.
Personally I'd like him to get at least a shot at his preferred position(s) but even his late arrival back from the WC kyboshed a proper look at him there in any friendlies.
And, when we have lumps of lard like Palacial-loss to offload, it's galling to think we might lose Geoff but on the other hand he is probably our most saleable asset right now and some book balancing must be required.
Sadly i think he'll go.
If not now (LMH will no doubt want the cover and do all he can to persuade him that he'll get his chances) but if that doesn't pan out and he can't even make the bench, he'll be offski come Jan.
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Post by FullerMagic on Aug 19, 2014 10:24:01 GMT
It's a shame we can't somehow harness his assets. His athleticism is exceptional.
But it appears Hughes has concluded he's not the RB he wants.
And, like TP, he doesn't seem to want a bar of him at CB.
It's doubtful he'll ever be first-choice in either the Whelan role or the N'Zonzi role.
He's certainly not half the footballer N'Zonzi is and Sidwell is obviously a Hughes favourite and is also looking for starts (maybe in both positions, but certainly the N'Zonzi role?)
It's a puzzler - but, at 29, as has been speculated all summer, you can see how he'd potentially want to move on for some regular action at his age.
He came to top football late and doesn't want to waste time on the bench or in the stands, especially when supposedly other decent teams are interested in him.
Some people need to be moved on and it'd be disappointing for me if he was one, but it might be unavoidable in the circumstances.
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Post by fca47 on Aug 19, 2014 10:25:24 GMT
Thought Bardsley was OK. These balls he failed to control were long balls at chest height under challenge. You would hope he could control them but Messi would miscontrol a fair percentage of them. Hopefully he will settle in.
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Post by realstokebloke on Aug 19, 2014 10:31:07 GMT
Yep, very same page Grapey.
Think it's inevitable the more i think about it & no matter what "his people" say.
Would be a sad loss but, as discussed, not a huge one for the team / squad going forward - and you couldn't, reasonably, deny him his chance somewhere else if it comes calling.
He'd go on the very best of terms you'd think.
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Post by slpmarc on Aug 19, 2014 10:35:17 GMT
It's a shame we can't somehow harness his assets. His athleticism is exceptional. But it appears Hughes has concluded he's not the RB he wants. And, like TP, he doesn't seem to want a bar of him at CB. It's doubtful he'll ever be first-choice in either the Whelan role or the N'Zonzi role. He's certainly not half the footballer N'Zonzi is and Sidwell is obviously a Hughes favourite and is also looking for starts (maybe in both positions, but certainly the N'Zonzi role?) It's a puzzler - but, at 29, as has been speculated all summer, you can see how he'd potentially want to move on for some regular action at his age. He came to top football late and doesn't want to waste time on the bench or in the stands, especially when supposedly other decent teams are interested in him. Some people need to be moved on and it'd be disappointing for me if he was one, but it might be unavoidable in the circumstances. True Geoff is not as good as Nzozni when Nzozni is playing well, but how many times does Steven play to his ability. Would rather have a 8 out of 10 player in Geoff playing consistent week in week out than Steven playing 10 out of 10 one week then 4 out of 10 the next. When Nzozni plays well we Win end off his position is the most vital one in the system we play as it dictates the tempo of our play and it helps push the whole team forward to stop us sitting too deep as we did v Villa. Think Geoff should be given a run of games in that role to see if it works prior to him leaving, as we could be making as mistake otherwise
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Post by Onneravineet on Aug 19, 2014 10:44:32 GMT
Can't say whether Bardsley is better, after one fairly middling performance in his debut, especially as he was covering all defensive and attacking duties on his own. One thing is for sure. Cameron ain't a right back. No positional discipline whatsoever. He's a good player, but where would we accommodate him in this system now? Instead of Whelan. I'd agree with this as I thought Whelan was poor on Satdee. However Muniesa is also worth trialling but he'd be on instead of Erik as he didn't look fit...however, I would love to see Adam in there too with N'Zonzi with Ireland just ahead. He links up play with the forwards much, much better.
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Post by Onneravineet on Aug 19, 2014 10:49:27 GMT
Those saying play in Whelan's role are part right, he could be a good DM but think his main attribute (athleticism) would be lost in a disciplined holding position, that's why I think him in Nzonzi's role would suit more. For one he would do a lot more getting up and down the pitch than Nzozni did especially against Villa, where Nzozni sat in Whelan's left pocket for the majority of the game, making it hard for the squad to push forward as a unit. I know it's all about opinions but I thought that it was Whelan that kept coming far too deep which left N'Zonzi exposed and without options. However, as with Ferr last year Delph did a number on our midfield and controlled the game. Whelan needs far more time than what he was afforded against Villa with Westwood and Delph. N'Zonzi however, apart from one incident which led to him taking the ball on a mini forward run, still looked composed against Whelan's eratic return passes and flicks that he reverts to.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 19, 2014 10:57:06 GMT
Meanwhile back on topic it's all bullshit.
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Post by mrcoke on Aug 19, 2014 11:10:28 GMT
Last season we had the Adam v Ireland debate and after just 1 match we are into debates on Cameron v Bardsley, Ireland v Bojan, Diouf v Crouch v Odemwingie (or some combination), Wilson v Huth, Pieters v Muniesa, and Odemwingie v Moses.
Regarding Cameron v Bardsley, I can see the arguments for both. I certainly think Bardsley did well for his first match and that was without Odemwingie or Walters in front of him, who do held their FB/Cameron. The lack of progress down the right wing was not entirely Bardsley's fault and I think Geoff would have struggled on Saturday.
I am a big fan of Geoff. He was one of our best players first half of last season. I do recognize though that he has his limitations and wonder if he is truly a top half Prem class player. On Saturday I wondered who MH would have replaced Bardsley with when he went down with an injury. I certainly think it is too soon to sell Cameron who could be a great centre- back/ defensive mid-fielder given chance to develop in the role.
At the end of the day we should all recognize that football is a team game and not entirely about individuals but how individuals perform together. The classic case being Greaves (the greatest goal scorer in English football history) being left out of Ramsey's world cup winning side. Synergy is more important than individual brilliance (unless you are talking Maradona etc.) MH needs to find that best combination of the talent that he (and TP) has assembled, which may well not be the best XI individuals.
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Geoffrey
Aug 19, 2014 11:15:04 GMT
via mobile
Post by stokiejoe on Aug 19, 2014 11:15:04 GMT
Last season we had the Adam v Ireland debate and after just 1 match we are into debates on Cameron v Bardsley, Ireland v Bojan, Diouf v Crouch v Odemwingie (or some combination), Wilson v Huth, Pieters v Muniesa, and Odemwingie v Moses. Regarding Cameron v Bardsley, I can see the arguments for both. I certainly think Bardsley did well for his first match and that was without Odemwingie or Walters in front of him, who do held their FB/Cameron. The lack of progress down the right wing was not entirely Bardsley's fault and I think Geoff would have struggled on Saturday. I am a big fan of Geoff. He was one of our best players first half of last season. I do recognize though that he has his limitations and wonder if he is truly a top half Prem class player. On Saturday I wondered who MH would have replaced Bardsley with when he went down with an injury. I certainly think it is too soon to sell Cameron who could be a great centre- back/ defensive mid-fielder given chance to develop in the role. At the end of the day we should all recognize that football is a team game and not entirely about individuals but how individuals perform together. The classic case being Greaves (the greatest goal scorer in English football history) being left out of Ramsey's world cup winning side. Synergy is more important than individual brilliance (unless you are talking Maradona etc.) MH needs to find that best combination of the talent that he (and TP) has assembled, which may well not be the best XI individuals. Excellent post
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Post by ************** on Aug 19, 2014 11:15:54 GMT
Danny Collins and Nyron Nosworthy divided the Sunderland fan base? Into 2 camps? "They're both abysmal" and "They're both worse than abysmal" I'm in both camps. And on the fence too. Quite a balancing act
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