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Post by claudinho on Sept 1, 2014 1:29:57 GMT
Anyone want Cameron back Always enjoy the thoughts of those who conveniently pick and choose performances to justify a POV. Cheers, mate.
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Post by jbstokie on Sept 1, 2014 1:31:19 GMT
Anyone want Cameron back Always enjoy the thoughts of those who conveniently pick and choose performances to justify a POV. Cheers, mate. Name 1 Cameron performance at right back that was anywhere near as good as Bardsley's against City. You can't because it has never happened.
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Bardsley
Sept 1, 2014 1:45:44 GMT
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Post by thedeadlyshart on Sept 1, 2014 1:45:44 GMT
Always enjoy the thoughts of those who conveniently pick and choose performances to justify a POV. Cheers, mate. Name 1 Cameron performance at right back that was anywhere near as good as Bardsley's against City. You can't because it has never happened. cameron had a few great performances, like the villa game that we won 2-1.
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Post by creweoatcake1 on Sept 1, 2014 6:31:52 GMT
Did anyone notice at the end of the game when the team came to the away fans, Bardsley jogged along the touchline having an altercation with the citeh fans to our right! a couple of (not concealed) hand gestures towards them! A good friend of mine at work (Shit fan) reckons that Bardsley is a proper Salford boy and will run through a "shit house" wall for you. For me a Wilko upgrade and would pick over Geoff every time!!!
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Bardsley
Sept 1, 2014 7:01:50 GMT
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Post by metalhead on Sept 1, 2014 7:01:50 GMT
I openly said that if Bardsley had a great game I would come out and say so and he did, so there you have it, you got me. The debate about right back is absolutely over now and it just took 90 minutes heh? A bit Strange that when Cameron has a good 90 minutes he is still shit but that's the oatcake mentality.
Shawcross was man of the match for me closely followed by Wilson but there's no knocking Bards, he played extremely well and was a key factor in our win. Doesn't end the debate for me though. He upped his game for sure, but needs to do it consistently. The whole team upped their game for Saturday so there we go, let's see how he kicks on. He looked awful against Villa and ordinary against Hull, so that's 1/3.
Funny how some of the people saying case closed, that's the end of that debate, anyone want Cameron back are the same people who said we shouldn't judge after one game. Oatcake mentality.
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Bardsley
Sept 1, 2014 7:24:27 GMT
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Post by maninasuitcase on Sept 1, 2014 7:24:27 GMT
Did anyone notice at the end of the game when the team came to the away fans, Bardsley jogged along the touchline having an altercation with the citeh fans to our right! a couple of (not concealed) hand gestures towards them! A good friend of mine at work (Shit fan) reckons that Bardsley is a proper Salford boy and will run through a "shit house" wall for you. For me a Wilko upgrade and would pick over Geoff every time!!! Yeah I spotted that. Quite funny as well.
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Post by geoffscott on Sept 1, 2014 9:29:09 GMT
I openly said that if Bardsley had a great game I would come out and say so and he did, so there you have it, you got me. The debate about right back is absolutely over now and it just took 90 minutes heh? A bit Strange that when Cameron has a good 90 minutes he is still shit but that's the oatcake mentality. Shawcross was man of the match for me closely followed by Wilson but there's no knocking Bards, he played extremely well and was a key factor in our win. Doesn't end the debate for me though. He upped his game for sure, but needs to do it consistently. The whole team upped their game for Saturday so there we go, let's see how he kicks on. He looked awful against Villa and ordinary against Hull, so that's 1/3. Funny how some of the people saying case closed, that's the end of that debate, anyone want Cameron back are the same people who said we shouldn't judge after one game. Oatcake mentality. Not sure what the one game quotes are about? Phil Bardsley has 195 games at right back in the premier league under his belt. During his informative years he was understudy to the best English fullback of his generation, Gary Neville. Surely there can be no debate, that Phil Bardsley is a 'natural' right back by trade? The defensive duties and the attacking duties of a right back are second nature to Phil Bardsley and he is clearly comfortable doing both and clearly understands the role that is required. Whereas given the number of occasions he gets caught out of position, I would say Geoff Cameron plays like a guy that is not entirely comfortable in the position. I though to his credit for most of last season, Cameron 'got away' with playing at right back, though most weeks I thought he looked the weak link in the team. Getting away with playing at right back in the premier league is still a fair achievement, you only have to think back to the performances of Stoke hero Robert Huth at right back to recognize how well Cameron did last season and at least he was an upgrade on Andy Wilkinson, though some would argue against that. I hope Geoff Cameron stays at Stoke and with Phil Bardsley around Cameron should be able to learn a thing or two and hopefully improve his positional awareness should he ever be asked to deputize at right back again.
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Bardsley
Sept 1, 2014 9:33:42 GMT
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Post by Kjones9 on Sept 1, 2014 9:33:42 GMT
The debate about right back is absolutely over now and it just took 90 minutes heh? Are you actually being serious?
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Post by metalhead on Sept 1, 2014 9:46:37 GMT
I openly said that if Bardsley had a great game I would come out and say so and he did, so there you have it, you got me. The debate about right back is absolutely over now and it just took 90 minutes heh? A bit Strange that when Cameron has a good 90 minutes he is still shit but that's the oatcake mentality. Shawcross was man of the match for me closely followed by Wilson but there's no knocking Bards, he played extremely well and was a key factor in our win. Doesn't end the debate for me though. He upped his game for sure, but needs to do it consistently. The whole team upped their game for Saturday so there we go, let's see how he kicks on. He looked awful against Villa and ordinary against Hull, so that's 1/3. Funny how some of the people saying case closed, that's the end of that debate, anyone want Cameron back are the same people who said we shouldn't judge after one game. Oatcake mentality. Not sure what the one game quotes are about? Phil Bardsley has 195 games at right back in the premier league under his belt. During his informative years he was understudy to the best English fullback of his generation, Gary Neville. Surely there can be no debate, that Phil Bardsley is a 'natural' right back by trade? The defensive duties and the attacking duties of a right back are second nature to Phil Bardsley and he is clearly comfortable doing both and clearly understands the role that is required. Whereas given the number of occasions he gets caught out of position, I would say Geoff Cameron plays like a guy that is not entirely comfortable in the position. I though to his credit for most of last season, Cameron 'got away' with playing at right back, though most weeks I thought he looked the weak link in the team. Getting away with playing at right back in the premier league is still a fair achievement, you only have to think back to the performances of Stoke hero Robert Huth at right back to recognize how well Cameron did last season and at least he was an upgrade on Andy Wilkinson, though some would argue against that. I hope Geoff Cameron stays at Stoke and with Phil Bardsley around Cameron should be able to learn a thing or two and hopefully improve his positional awareness should he ever be asked to deputize at right back again. OK, so there's a few points you've made there... When I started this thread, I criticized Bardsley heavily after what was a horrific (in my opinion) performance against Aston Villa. It was a performance that I described as "worse than any Cameron performance I've ever seen". I was pretty quickly shot down and told "you can't judge a player after one game". We then had a fairly ordinary performance against Hull, although he was certainly much improved from the previous week. He's now put in a very very strong performance and those who shot me down and told me not to judge on one game are saying "case closed" etc, so effectively judging on... wait for it... one game, yep. Bardsley has 195 games for Sunderland who in the most part, seemed happy for him to leave by the end. As a player, he's someone who has never stood out for me. I like his attitude and his commitment, but if you'd asked me before this season who I wanted at right back, I'm not sure Phil Bardsley would have been the man who jumped into my mind. If he was half as good as Gary Neville, we would have a very very good full back, so let the comparisons end there yeah? This natural right back thing is bullshit. Yes, he's a natural rightback who had an absolutely mare against Villa, who didn't even need to work to get three points. Cameron may not be a natural full back, but I don't remember him having that bad a performance last season at all. I also remember him having some very very good performances, which people are all too happy to forget. I don't know what game you've been watching but while his defensive duties are very sound I'm yet to be convinced by his attacking ability at all. He looked better at the weekend but against Villa it was bordering on the embarrassing. So really, you're falling into the trap of judging after one very good performance. This thing about Cameron's positioning is an interesting one. How many times does he get caught out of position? He was caught a few times last season admittedly, but Erik Pieters, our natural left back was caught way out of position for the Villa goal. Does that mean he's not entirely comfortable playing left back? No, it means he lost concentration and got caught. I thought Cameron started the season very well and grew into the position. After Christmas, he had a poor period where his form was inconsistent and that's when the daggers appeared for him, and unfortunately, they've never left. There's some right rubbish posted on this board about him being poor all season, because he just wasn't, it's complete bollocks. It's funny that you say he "got away" with playing at right back. On a number of occasions, his drive and ability on the ball helped bring the team out of defence and onto the attack, something that everyone is conveniently forgetting on here. In a nutshell, Bards played very, and I'm happy to say that, I just want him to keep up that kind of performance then my opinion will slowly change.
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Post by metalhead on Sept 1, 2014 9:46:59 GMT
The debate about right back is absolutely over now and it just took 90 minutes heh? Are you actually being serious? I was actually being sarcastic. Went straight over your head didn't it?
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Bardsley
Sept 1, 2014 9:52:33 GMT
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Post by Kjones9 on Sept 1, 2014 9:52:33 GMT
Are you actually being serious? I was actually being sarcastic. Went straight over your head didn't it? No I got it. But weren't you the one that completely wrote bardsley off after one 90 minutes?
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Post by metalhead on Sept 1, 2014 9:58:00 GMT
I was actually being sarcastic. Went straight over your head didn't it? No I got it. But weren't you the one that completely wrote bardsley off after one 90 minutes? No. I didn't write him off. I said he would need to improve as his performance against Villa was shambolic. He was shit, I rightly raised the topic for discussion. I don't think there's a problem with that do you? Either way the tables are turned and after one excellent performance he's now being touted as freaking the next Gary Neville.
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Bardsley
Sept 1, 2014 10:14:44 GMT
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Post by Kjones9 on Sept 1, 2014 10:14:44 GMT
No I got it. But weren't you the one that completely wrote bardsley off after one 90 minutes? No. I didn't write him off. I said he would need to improve as his performance against Villa was shambolic. He was shit, I rightly raised the topic for discussion. I don't think there's a problem with that do you? Either way the tables are turned and after one excellent performance he's now being touted as freaking the next Gary Neville. That's all well and good but "Actually, I love being right. I've said all along i believe Cameron is better than Bardsley. pffft Sunderland didn't want him. Says it all." Also, i think that these tables that have supposidly turned are in your head, and the corner you have backed yourself is stopping you from thinking rational. You could've gone on your high horse if it wasn't for your 'told you so' crap spouted these past couple of weeks. Anyway, I think that because of your previously mentioned obsession, I'll leave it there.
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Post by metalhead on Sept 1, 2014 10:21:50 GMT
No. I didn't write him off. I said he would need to improve as his performance against Villa was shambolic. He was shit, I rightly raised the topic for discussion. I don't think there's a problem with that do you? Either way the tables are turned and after one excellent performance he's now being touted as freaking the next Gary Neville. That's all well and good but "Actually, I love being right. I've said all along i believe Cameron is better than Bardsley. pffft Sunderland didn't want him. Says it all." Also, i think that these tables that have supposidly turned are in your head, and the corner you have backed yourself is stopping you from thinking rational. You could've gone on your high horse if it wasn't for your 'told you so' crap spouted these past couple of weeks. Anyway, I think that because of your previously mentioned obsession, I'll leave it there. Lol dear me.... There was an element of sarcasm to that post as well. On the sarcastometer, you're really struggling aren't you? Of course I'm not always right and the comment I made was partly in jest. Good going sifting through posts though. I don't see how I've backed myself into a corner. I'm pretty sure it was you who said if Bardsley plays well, will you come out and say so, I said yes... and I have done so, so what is your problem?
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Post by boskampsflaps on Sept 1, 2014 10:41:24 GMT
Not sure what the one game quotes are about? Phil Bardsley has 195 games at right back in the premier league under his belt. During his informative years he was understudy to the best English fullback of his generation, Gary Neville. Surely there can be no debate, that Phil Bardsley is a 'natural' right back by trade? The defensive duties and the attacking duties of a right back are second nature to Phil Bardsley and he is clearly comfortable doing both and clearly understands the role that is required. Whereas given the number of occasions he gets caught out of position, I would say Geoff Cameron plays like a guy that is not entirely comfortable in the position. I though to his credit for most of last season, Cameron 'got away' with playing at right back, though most weeks I thought he looked the weak link in the team. Getting away with playing at right back in the premier league is still a fair achievement, you only have to think back to the performances of Stoke hero Robert Huth at right back to recognize how well Cameron did last season and at least he was an upgrade on Andy Wilkinson, though some would argue against that. I hope Geoff Cameron stays at Stoke and with Phil Bardsley around Cameron should be able to learn a thing or two and hopefully improve his positional awareness should he ever be asked to deputize at right back again. OK, so there's a few points you've made there... When I started this thread, I criticized Bardsley heavily after what was a horrific (in my opinion) performance against Aston Villa. It was a performance that I described as "worse than any Cameron performance I've ever seen". I was pretty quickly shot down and told "you can't judge a player after one game". We then had a fairly ordinary performance against Hull, although he was certainly much improved from the previous week. He's now put in a very very strong performance and those who shot me down and told me not to judge on one game are saying "case closed" etc, so effectively judging on... wait for it... one game, yep. Bardsley has 195 games for Sunderland who in the most part, seemed happy for him to leave by the end. As a player, he's someone who has never stood out for me. I like his attitude and his commitment, but if you'd asked me before this season who I wanted at right back, I'm not sure Phil Bardsley would have been the man who jumped into my mind. If he was half as good as Gary Neville, we would have a very very good full back, so let the comparisons end there yeah? This natural right back thing is bullshit. Yes, he's a natural rightback who had an absolutely mare against Villa, who didn't even need to work to get three points. Cameron may not be a natural full back, but I don't remember him having that bad a performance last season at all. I also remember him having some very very good performances, which people are all too happy to forget. I don't know what game you've been watching but while his defensive duties are very sound I'm yet to be convinced by his attacking ability at all. He looked better at the weekend but against Villa it was bordering on the embarrassing. So really, you're falling into the trap of judging after one very good performance. This thing about Cameron's positioning is an interesting one. How many times does he get caught out of position? He was caught a few times last season admittedly, but Erik Pieters, our natural left back was caught way out of position for the Villa goal. Does that mean he's not entirely comfortable playing left back? No, it means he lost concentration and got caught. I thought Cameron started the season very well and grew into the position. After Christmas, he had a poor period where his form was inconsistent and that's when the daggers appeared for him, and unfortunately, they've never left. There's some right rubbish posted on this board about him being poor all season, because he just wasn't, it's complete bollocks. It's funny that you say he "got away" with playing at right back. On a number of occasions, his drive and ability on the ball helped bring the team out of defence and onto the attack, something that everyone is conveniently forgetting on here. In a nutshell, Bards played very, and I'm happy to say that, I just want him to keep up that kind of performance then my opinion will slowly change. Lets not forget cameron ISN'T a rb and was utterly shit playing the position, there is no debate.
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Post by metalhead on Sept 1, 2014 10:43:17 GMT
OK, so there's a few points you've made there... When I started this thread, I criticized Bardsley heavily after what was a horrific (in my opinion) performance against Aston Villa. It was a performance that I described as "worse than any Cameron performance I've ever seen". I was pretty quickly shot down and told "you can't judge a player after one game". We then had a fairly ordinary performance against Hull, although he was certainly much improved from the previous week. He's now put in a very very strong performance and those who shot me down and told me not to judge on one game are saying "case closed" etc, so effectively judging on... wait for it... one game, yep. Bardsley has 195 games for Sunderland who in the most part, seemed happy for him to leave by the end. As a player, he's someone who has never stood out for me. I like his attitude and his commitment, but if you'd asked me before this season who I wanted at right back, I'm not sure Phil Bardsley would have been the man who jumped into my mind. If he was half as good as Gary Neville, we would have a very very good full back, so let the comparisons end there yeah? This natural right back thing is bullshit. Yes, he's a natural rightback who had an absolutely mare against Villa, who didn't even need to work to get three points. Cameron may not be a natural full back, but I don't remember him having that bad a performance last season at all. I also remember him having some very very good performances, which people are all too happy to forget. I don't know what game you've been watching but while his defensive duties are very sound I'm yet to be convinced by his attacking ability at all. He looked better at the weekend but against Villa it was bordering on the embarrassing. So really, you're falling into the trap of judging after one very good performance. This thing about Cameron's positioning is an interesting one. How many times does he get caught out of position? He was caught a few times last season admittedly, but Erik Pieters, our natural left back was caught way out of position for the Villa goal. Does that mean he's not entirely comfortable playing left back? No, it means he lost concentration and got caught. I thought Cameron started the season very well and grew into the position. After Christmas, he had a poor period where his form was inconsistent and that's when the daggers appeared for him, and unfortunately, they've never left. There's some right rubbish posted on this board about him being poor all season, because he just wasn't, it's complete bollocks. It's funny that you say he "got away" with playing at right back. On a number of occasions, his drive and ability on the ball helped bring the team out of defence and onto the attack, something that everyone is conveniently forgetting on here. In a nutshell, Bards played very, and I'm happy to say that, I just want him to keep up that kind of performance then my opinion will slowly change. Lets not forget cameron ISN'T a rb and was utterly shit playing the position, there is no debate. No he wasn't...
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Post by geoffscott on Sept 1, 2014 10:57:15 GMT
Ah right Mr. Metalhead.
I must admit the whole Geoff Cameron debate with daggers in back and the concerns from some quarters over Phil Bardsley had passed me by.
I also see you took from my post when I said he was understudy to Gary Neville, that I implied....
'Either way the tables are turned and after one excellent performance he's now being touted as freaking the next Gary Neville.'
So I guess you are a little prone to selective observations and into making things up.
I thought at the end of the season, is was pretty basic stuff, no big deal and just a matter of moving forwards this season.
Geoff Cameron at right back was a weak link and right back was an obvious area we needed to strengthen.
No big debate, no hatred of the guy, just a simple fact, if we want to build on the success of last year, in the same way as last year Eric Pieter's finally resolved the problem left back position, I was hoping Mark Hughes would now bring us a quality right back.
I thought Phil Bardsley was a decent signing and now obvious first choice right back.
Not unproven in the premier league, not young and inexperienced, not lightweight, not lacking technical ability, not worryingly slow, not a center half who was going to fill in at right back, but an experienced premier league standard right back, who can be relied on.
I've seen a poor team performance against Villa, an average team performance against Hull and an absolutely superb team performance against Man City.
No way would I have singled out Bardsley as being worse than his team mates in the Villa and Hull games and against Man City, just like his team mates he was superb.
But as I say with Phil Bardsley he doesn't come here as an unproven quantity, we already know he's got what it takes to play at right back in the premier league, no worries, Phil Bardsley is a Potter and I've got no problem with that.
I hope Geoff Cameron remains part of the squad, but such is the ability of Mark Hughes and his staff to assemble a squad of real quality, Geoff Cameron is no longer an obvious starter in any position.
I'm really surprised that there should be a debate to the contrary.
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Post by boskampsflaps on Sept 1, 2014 11:01:46 GMT
Lets not forget cameron ISN'T a rb and was utterly shit playing the position, there is no debate. No he wasn't... Sorry to let you down but he was, he had one really good game and that was Sunderland at home against 10 men, he doesn't know how to play the position, if he does stay I'd happily see him given a chance elsewhere mind.
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Post by thebet365 on Sept 1, 2014 11:26:28 GMT
Sorry to let you down but he was, he had one really good game and that was Sunderland at home against 10 men, he doesn't know how to play the position, if he does stay I'd happily see him given a chance elsewhere mind. As the season wore on he got worse which I was putting down to fatigue. He was no world beating right back but the 1st half of the season he was far from utterly shit.
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Bardsley
Sept 1, 2014 11:27:05 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Sept 1, 2014 11:27:05 GMT
Outstanding at City.
After Geoff's interview that he's only interested in a central role, the RB slot is Phil's.
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Post by boskampsflaps on Sept 1, 2014 12:13:41 GMT
Sorry to let you down but he was, he had one really good game and that was Sunderland at home against 10 men, he doesn't know how to play the position, if he does stay I'd happily see him given a chance elsewhere mind. As the season wore on he got worse which I was putting down to fatigue. He was no world beating right back but the 1st half of the season he was far from utterly shit. I disagree, maybe a bit harsh saying utterly shit, more poor to utterly shit.
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Post by metalhead on Sept 1, 2014 12:23:32 GMT
As the season wore on he got worse which I was putting down to fatigue. He was no world beating right back but the 1st half of the season he was far from utterly shit. I disagree, maybe a bit harsh saying utterly shit, more poor to utterly shit. Not harsh, just wrong.
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Post by boskampsflaps on Sept 1, 2014 12:31:34 GMT
I disagree, maybe a bit harsh saying utterly shit, more poor to utterly shit. Not harsh, just wrong. Not in my opinion.
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Post by metalhead on Sept 1, 2014 12:35:17 GMT
and we're all allowed one
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Bardsley
Sept 1, 2014 15:00:23 GMT
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Post by stokemanusa on Sept 1, 2014 15:00:23 GMT
To think Geoff would be in contention for RB even after hughes had brought in bardsley to solely solidify the RB position is odd. With the RB position now sorted it has allowed hughes to be able to finally move Cameron into his favored CDM role as it was evident with Geoff's good but short cameo in the league cup last week. Seeing as we lack CB and DM coverage its only "natural" to move Geoff into a role both manager and player alike would like be seen in.
To have to cover in many positions incase of injury is really what its about, with POs injury and the lennon inquiry really shows how fragile a seemingly "solid" starting 11 can be altered. Barring form it's bardsley's position to lose and to think it being nailed on after one great or terrible performance is grasping at it.
With consistency in mind I wouldn't say any player starting at Stoke is always going to start besides Bego and Ryan. We've all seen seemingly great performances followed by wtf ones even from players you'd think would be up for it versus supposedly weaker sides ie N'zonzi and Whelan versus Hull. If anything having the Wilko's, Adam and Camerons of the squad pushing them for a spot is only a good thing and you never know, someone like Crouch or Walters can come in and have a goal run and get a ten game starting stint. It's a long season. I wouldn't get all enamored like the united fans were walking into turf moor.
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Post by claudinho on Sept 1, 2014 19:33:03 GMT
Phil was class. No argument there and happy for our club that he played so well. However, I wonder if his supporters will follow the example they've set and call for his replacement after his next poor performance. That would be daft, of course, as it is slagging Geoff after a poor game or giving Phil too much credit for a single (though excellent) job at the back.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 18, 2014 20:12:35 GMT
Bardsley is a great player but Cameron just edges it for me, when he's fit
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Bardsley
Sept 18, 2014 20:14:27 GMT
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Post by 2004 on Sept 18, 2014 20:14:27 GMT
Really hard to choose as I like Geoff but Bardsley edges it for me.
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Post by Bombus on Sept 18, 2014 20:16:04 GMT
As right back??
Bardsley, no discussion for me.
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Post by stokeramblers on Sept 18, 2014 20:16:42 GMT
Bardsley by a gnats pube
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