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Post by claudinho on Aug 1, 2014 13:00:47 GMT
People raving about Bardsley are clearly forgetting that Sunderland tried to sign Cameron I think. It's hard to fathom. This is a case for the importance watching the XI of other clubs. Bardsley is simply not good enough, yet we are handing Geoff's position to him after finishing 9th in the table with Geoff manning the right side of our defence. Lunacy IMO.
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Post by boskampsflaps on Aug 1, 2014 13:03:25 GMT
(wave)
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Post by Paul Spencer on Aug 1, 2014 13:07:55 GMT
Not sure why people think Bardsley would be worse at RB than Cameron. It's his specialist position with years of top level experience as apposed to Cameron who doesn't know what he is. While Cameron was OK last season and he is very athletic, he had some very poor games and the manager, judging by his touchline actions, does not rate Geoff as a right back. Bardsley will be a more consistent performer over the season in that position. I'd keep Cameron as a player who can put pressure on several positions. Whether he would be happy with that is up to him. Because he's not very good, which is why a terrible Sunderland side let him go?
Sunderland offered him a new contract and he turned it down and chose to join us instead.
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Post by stokiejoe on Aug 1, 2014 13:12:33 GMT
Am I the only one that thinks G-Cam played a decent part in our success last season? Evidently so. It's unfortunate that Potters supporters didn't watch Bardsley's less-than-average campaign at Stoke last year. Be careful what you wish for. He has made it clear that he prefers not to play right back, which is what his performance last year is being measured on. Bardsley is a right back and will have better quality players around him. Cameron is therefore in competition with other players who contributed to our ninth place. No one is disputing his contribution last year, what is being discussed is his contribution next year in an untried position. Also the crux of the problem is that we have to move some players on having signed others. We have some obvious candidates but there is a problem, at present no one wants the ones we want to get rid of. Hughes bought Bardsley and I would expect him to play him as first choice so in which untried position is Cameron to play? The competition for those places is strong.
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Post by Lakeland Potter on Aug 1, 2014 13:14:34 GMT
Am I the only one that thinks G-Cam played a decent part in our success last season? Evidently so. It's unfortunate that Potters supporters didn't watch Bardsley's less-than-average campaign at Stoke last year. Be careful what you wish for. I didn't even know he's had a campaign at Stoke last year.
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Post by jbstokie on Aug 1, 2014 13:20:56 GMT
Because he's not very good, which is why a terrible Sunderland side let him go?
Sunderland offered him a new contract and he turned it down and chose to join us instead.
Don't let facts get in the way of bias.
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Post by claudinho on Aug 1, 2014 13:36:34 GMT
Because he's not very good, which is why a terrible Sunderland side let him go?
Sunderland offered him a new contract and he turned it down and chose to join us instead.
Really? Hard to believe, given the fact that Sunderland will be playing Championship football next year.
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Post by claudinho on Aug 1, 2014 13:37:30 GMT
Evidently so. It's unfortunate that Potters supporters didn't watch Bardsley's less-than-average campaign at Stoke last year. Be careful what you wish for. I didn't even know he's had a campaign at Stoke last year. Apologies. I know I'm the only one here who makes typos, mate.
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bfb
Academy Starlet
Posts: 182
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Post by bfb on Aug 1, 2014 13:41:09 GMT
I think the fact we gave willdo a new contract was strange unless we expect Cameron to leave.
Bfb
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Post by Lakeland Potter on Aug 1, 2014 13:42:32 GMT
I didn't even know he's had a campaign at Stoke last year. Apologies. I know I'm the only one here who makes typos, mate. My confusion was that I didn't know if you were referring to his campaign with Sunderland or his game for Sunderland at Stoke!
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Post by thedeadlyshart on Aug 1, 2014 14:23:04 GMT
I haven't seen your post sorry mate. For the life of me, I can't see how we can find a space for Geoff even on the bench next season.
The problem for him is that we already have two really good utility players likely to be regular substitutes next season, one right footed (Wilson) and one left footed (Muniesa) and there's no way you can justify having a third utility player on the bench.
If the first XI looks something like:
--------------Begovic---------------
Bardsley---Ryan---Huth---Pieters
--------Whelan-----N'Zonzi--------
----MFW------Ireland-----Arnie----
----------------Diouf-----------------
then your bench cover would look something like this:
------------Tommy/Jack-------------
Wilson----Wilson---Muniesa----Muniesa
---Wilson/Muniesa-----Sidwell-------
--ODW---------ODW----------Assaidi--
-------------Bojan/ODW-----------------
which would give you a 7 man bench of:
Tommy/Jack Wilson Muniesa Sidwell Odemwingie Assaidi Bojan
So who exactly do you drop from that bench to give Geoff a place?
And yes I can't find a spot for Charlie either!
Mystery Foreign Winger and Assaidi haven't signed for us yet, so that clears up two spots, at least for the time being.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Aug 1, 2014 14:26:11 GMT
But even then, the room isn't really there for Cameron is it? Walters, Adam and Crouch come into play then.
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Post by Kjones9 on Aug 1, 2014 14:33:02 GMT
I love this board, because people prefer Geoff that now automatically means Bardsley is shit?
The same Bardsley who has nearly 250 premier league appearances at right back?
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Post by FullerMagic on Aug 1, 2014 14:36:20 GMT
Assuming Assaidi signs and we initially went something like :
Begovic Bardsley-Huth-Shawcross-Pieters Whelan-N'Zonzi Odemwingie-Ireland-Arnie Diouf
Even if you discount Wilko, Teixeira, Palacios, Shea, Ness and Jerome, the fight for the 6 outfield bench places would involve:
Cameron-Wilson-Muniesa-Sidwell-Bojan-Adam-Assaidi-Walters-Crouch
Probably agree that it'd maybe come down to only 2 from the 3 of Wilson, Muniesa and Cameron though.
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Post by cheekymatt71 on Aug 1, 2014 14:37:12 GMT
SELL SELL SELL SELL
9 clubs interested could start a bidding war
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Post by Paul Spencer on Aug 1, 2014 14:37:37 GMT
Mystery Foreign Winger and Assaidi haven't signed for us yet, so that clears up two spots, at least for the time being.
Whether the MFW or Assaidi have signed for us at the moment, is irrelevant to the point in hand, the teams are there just to give context to the point.
That being, when you've already got one right footed utility player (Wilson) and one left footed utility player (Muniesa) available from the bench, then there's no way a team can justify having a third utility player on the bench also.
And even if we don't sign the MFW and/or Assaidi (which I would find highly unlikely but anyway) then you would (as Bayern has said above) still have the likes of Crouch, Adam and Walters who would all make a more legitimate claim to the bench before Geoff would.
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Post by Paul Spencer on Aug 1, 2014 14:51:41 GMT
Assuming Assaidi signs and we initially went something like : Begovic Bardsley-Huth-Shawcross-Pieters Whelan-N'Zonzi Odemwingie-Ireland-Arnie DioufEven if you discount Wilko, Teixeira, Palacios, Shea, Ness and Jerome, the fight for the 6 outfield bench places would involve: Cameron-Wilson-Muniesa-Sidwell-Bojan-Adam-Assaidi-Walters-Crouch
Probably agree that it'd maybe come down to only 2 from the 3 of Wilson, Muniesa and Cameron though.
Exactly my point Grapey.
And you would think that three who realise that they're unlikely to even make the bench next season wouldn't be happy just being squad fillers.
That would be three from Crouch, Cameron, Adam and Walters.
Indeed if we do sign a MFW, then it's hard to see how any of the four above will happy to be regulars who will not even make the bench.
Begovic, Bardsley, Ryan, Huth, Pieters, Whelan, N'Zonzi, MFW, Ireland, Arnie, Diouf
Tommy/Jack, Wilson, Muniesa, Sidwell, Odemwingie, Assaidi, Bojan
Tex, Wilko, Palacios, Shea, Ness, Crouch, Cameron, Adam, Walters
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Post by thedeadlyshart on Aug 1, 2014 15:12:05 GMT
Mystery Foreign Winger and Assaidi haven't signed for us yet, so that clears up two spots, at least for the time being.
Whether the MFW or Assaidi have signed for us at the moment, is irrelevant to the point in hand, the teams are there just to give context to the point.
That being, when you've already got one right footed utility player (Wilson) and one left footed utility player (Muniesa) available from the bench, then there's no way a team can justify having a third utility player on the bench also.
And even if we don't sign the MFW and/or Assaidi (which I would find highly unlikely but anyway) then you would (as Bayern has said above) still have the likes of Crouch, Adam and Walters who would all make a more legitimate claim to the bench before Geoff would.
That's assuming Muniesa, Wilson, and Bardsley are ahead of Cameron. Cameron had the right back spot ahead of Wilson, as for midfield we don't know. I've seen no indication that Hughes will ever play Muniesa in midfield. I also wouldn't be surprised if Wilson gets the centre half spot ahead of Huth. If that happens you have three defenders to pick from for the bench. Muniesa and Cameron can cover the entire back line, and Cameron can also cover Whelan's position. Huth can play centre half. As for Walters, Crouch, and Adam having more legitimate chances of being on the bench, they all have Bojan, Diouf, Odemwingie ahead of them and with Walters and Adam there's also Arnie and Ireland to add to that list. It's way too early to bring out a team sheet and say there isn't room for one particular player when the entire squad hasn't even trained together, and plenty of transfers are still in the works. Of the players we could sell Cameron would have a higher value than most, but I think it's still too early too even assume that he isn't still our starting right back when the season begins.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Aug 1, 2014 15:17:12 GMT
Why sign a right back who is presumably on a decent wage and offer another right back a new contract?
It's either stupid or Cameron ain't going to play right back.....
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Post by thedeadlyshart on Aug 1, 2014 15:27:13 GMT
Why sign a right back who is presumably on a decent wage and offer another right back a new contract? It's either stupid or Cameron ain't going to play right back..... Because Geoff played 37 games at right back. That's too many games, and thank god he didn't get injured. Wilko isn't good enough, but would rather stay at Stoke. With Bardsley and Cameron you have two right backs who could start.
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Post by slpmarc on Aug 1, 2014 15:32:48 GMT
Why sign a right back who is presumably on a decent wage and offer another right back a new contract? It's either stupid or Cameron ain't going to play right back..... He wants midfield, he been told he can compete for that position as now he is not necessarily needed a RB. That is what Geoff has wanted from the start but needs of the team came first, let's hope he is given the chance as I think he would be good as an high tempo box to box midfielder
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Post by pez75 on Aug 1, 2014 15:34:57 GMT
I love this board, because people prefer Geoff that now automatically means Bardsley is shit? The same Bardsley who has nearly 250 premier league appearances at right back? Exactly, you can hear the G-cam supporters sharpening their knives waiting for Bardsley to fuck up...
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Post by Paul Spencer on Aug 1, 2014 15:37:59 GMT
Whether the MFW or Assaidi have signed for us at the moment, is irrelevant to the point in hand, the teams are there just to give context to the point.
That being, when you've already got one right footed utility player (Wilson) and one left footed utility player (Muniesa) available from the bench, then there's no way a team can justify having a third utility player on the bench also.
And even if we don't sign the MFW and/or Assaidi (which I would find highly unlikely but anyway) then you would (as Bayern has said above) still have the likes of Crouch, Adam and Walters who would all make a more legitimate claim to the bench before Geoff would.
That's assuming Muniesa, Wilson, and Bardsley are ahead of Cameron. Cameron had the right back spot ahead of Wilson, as for midfield we don't know. I've seen no indication that Hughes will ever play Muniesa in midfield. I also wouldn't be surprised if Wilson gets the centre half spot ahead of Huth. If that happens you have three defenders to pick from for the bench. Muniesa and Cameron can cover the entire back line, and Cameron can also cover Whelan's position. Huth can play centre half. As for Walters, Crouch, and Adam having more legitimate chances of being on the bench, they all have Bojan, Diouf, Odemwingie ahead of them and with Walters and Adam there's also Arnie and Ireland to add to that list. It's way too early to bring out a team sheet and say there isn't room for one particular player when the entire squad hasn't even trained together, and plenty of transfers are still in the works. Of the players we could sell Cameron would have a higher value than most, but I think it's still too early too even assume that he isn't still our starting right back when the season begins.
I agree that it's too early to bring out specific team sheets, as I said before, the team(s) are only there for context.
We're talking about the first team squad.
Let me put it another way ... it appears to me that you are suggesting that in the match day 18 there is room for Bardsley, Huth, Wilson, Muniesa and Cameron.
I don't think there is - hence why I used the teams to provide context for that assertion.
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Post by Paul Spencer on Aug 1, 2014 15:42:23 GMT
Why sign a right back who is presumably on a decent wage and offer another right back a new contract? It's either stupid or Cameron ain't going to play right back..... He wants midfield, he been told he can compete for that position as now he is not necessarily needed a RB. That is what Geoff has wanted from the start but needs of the team came first, let's hope he is given the chance as I think he would be good as an high tempo box to box midfielder
But we've got a fantastic box to box midfielder in N'Zonzi and we've just gone out and specifically bought another one - Sidwell.
If N'Zonzi is off then it would make sense but if he isn't, then Geoff would still at best be third in line for that slot.
In all the places that Geoff would ordinarily play right back, centre back and centre midfield, we've already bought specific new players this summer.
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Post by slpmarc on Aug 1, 2014 15:46:24 GMT
He wants midfield, he been told he can compete for that position as now he is not necessarily needed a RB. That is what Geoff has wanted from the start but needs of the team came first, let's hope he is given the chance as I think he would be good as an high tempo box to box midfielder
But we've got a fantastic box to box midfielder in N'Zonzi and we've just gone out and specifically bought another one - Sidwell.
If N'Zonzi is off then it would make sense but if he isn't, then Geoff would still at best be third in line for that slot.
In all the places that Geoff would ordinarily play right back, centre back and centre midfield, we've already bought specific new players this summer.
All true which is a shame for Geoff, I can see him leaving and my bet would be Southampton
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Post by cousindupree on Aug 1, 2014 16:06:28 GMT
The only position we have no obvious options for is Whelan's def mid.This is the role Cameron has played in the USA and not box to box.I think he is a better option there than Wilson or Muniesa.
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Post by thedeadlyshart on Aug 1, 2014 16:06:34 GMT
That's assuming Muniesa, Wilson, and Bardsley are ahead of Cameron. Cameron had the right back spot ahead of Wilson, as for midfield we don't know. I've seen no indication that Hughes will ever play Muniesa in midfield. I also wouldn't be surprised if Wilson gets the centre half spot ahead of Huth. If that happens you have three defenders to pick from for the bench. Muniesa and Cameron can cover the entire back line, and Cameron can also cover Whelan's position. Huth can play centre half. As for Walters, Crouch, and Adam having more legitimate chances of being on the bench, they all have Bojan, Diouf, Odemwingie ahead of them and with Walters and Adam there's also Arnie and Ireland to add to that list. It's way too early to bring out a team sheet and say there isn't room for one particular player when the entire squad hasn't even trained together, and plenty of transfers are still in the works. Of the players we could sell Cameron would have a higher value than most, but I think it's still too early too even assume that he isn't still our starting right back when the season begins.
I agree that it's too early to bring out specific team sheets, as I said before, the team(s) are only there for context.
We're talking about the first team squad.
Let me put it another way ... it appears to me that you are suggesting that in the match day 18 there is room for Bardsley, Huth, Wilson, Muniesa and Cameron.
I don't think there is - hence why I used the teams to provide context for that assertion.
I'm aware. With a four defender formation we should carry at least six defenders in our first team squad. Therefore one or two of the names mentioned would have to be dropped. What I'm saying is I'm not sure Cameron is one of the names to be eliminated.
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Post by Paul Spencer on Aug 1, 2014 16:14:07 GMT
I agree that it's too early to bring out specific team sheets, as I said before, the team(s) are only there for context.
We're talking about the first team squad.
Let me put it another way ... it appears to me that you are suggesting that in the match day 18 there is room for Bardsley, Huth, Wilson, Muniesa and Cameron.
I don't think there is - hence why I used the teams to provide context for that assertion.
I'm aware. With a four defender formation we should carry at least six defenders in our first team squad. Therefore one or two of the names mentioned would have to be dropped. What I'm saying is I'm not sure Cameron is one of the names to be eliminated.
Exactly.
Bardsley, Ryan, Huth, Pieters, Wilson, Muniesa.
I don't see who you drop to accommodate Cameron in that six.
For me it's direct competition between Wilson and Cameron, with them both being able to play in midfield as well.
But I would guess that Wilson is ahead of Cameron due to his experience in the Premiership at centre back.
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Post by boskampsflaps on Aug 1, 2014 16:14:39 GMT
I agree that it's too early to bring out specific team sheets, as I said before, the team(s) are only there for context.
We're talking about the first team squad.
Let me put it another way ... it appears to me that you are suggesting that in the match day 18 there is room for Bardsley, Huth, Wilson, Muniesa and Cameron.
I don't think there is - hence why I used the teams to provide context for that assertion.
I'm aware. With a four defender formation we should carry at least six defenders in our first team squad. Therefore one or two of the names mentioned would have to be dropped. What I'm saying is I'm not sure Cameron is one of the names to be eliminated. Bardsley, Huth, Shawcross, Wilson, Pieters, Muniesa, I can't see Cameron getting in front of any of those in the pecking order, I realise you said at least six, so there is room for another but if it was only six that would be it imo.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 1, 2014 16:15:52 GMT
Why sign a right back who is presumably on a decent wage and offer another right back a new contract? It's either stupid or Cameron ain't going to play right back..... Agreed. Whilst we're at it, now we have Bojan, Diouf can be on his way. We can frig NZonzi off as well since we've added Sidwell on a decent wage too.
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