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Post by StokieAsh13 on Aug 1, 2014 11:11:00 GMT
He must of been reading your tweets about him. So if he goes youre to blame He can't, the sensitive sod has blocked me! Oh dear poor Geoff
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Post by wearepremierleague on Aug 1, 2014 11:11:46 GMT
GC should start the season at right back and it should be his position to lose, was there 9 clubs interested in Bardsley? Doubt it
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Post by Deleted on Aug 1, 2014 11:13:51 GMT
We'd be mad to sell Geoff. We should be looking to move Shotton on and having Cam and Bardsley as our right back options, with Geoff offering cover elsewhere too. Wilko is nothing more than a good head to have around the place. An expensive head to have around the place, granted, but it's nothing more than that. Hughes clearly doesn't rate the lad, same for Shots too. I see a place for both Cameron and Bardsley in the squard. Geoff won't get free reign at the RB berth like he did last year, but I can still see him getting 20+ game over the course of a Season with healthy competition now rife. It'll be a similar situation for Muniesa and Pieters too. Hughes will be explaining to them all that they have part to play and that they will get their chances. If Cameron isn't happy with the added competition then he might want to leave. I think his attitude so far would suggest that that wouldn't be the case though.
But who would you drop from the bench in my post above WD to accommodate him?
When you've already got Wilson and Muinesa on there, you can't really justify having a third utility player as one of your subs.
Bench? I'd have him starting plenty of games mate.
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Post by alster on Aug 1, 2014 11:14:24 GMT
Its about having the right proposal to justify the amount of sponsorship. Remember Man City's was huge, I know they fell foul of FFP but I do seem to remember them getting away with the sponsorship deal with only minor adjustments to its value. Its not just about sponsoring the shirt and the ground but the academy and the training ground, the filled in corners, corporate hospitality. The avenues are very very wide for generous owner sponsorship. I don't think we're anywhere close to potential. So you're suggesting that PSG's lawyers/accountants/executives are all just crap at their jobs then? What I'm probably suggesting is that they were a bit too confident in bulldozing through a proposal that did not encompass enough elements to allow them enough wriggle room in their ensuing arguments. Its something you'd need to be very thorough and methodical about right from the start you can't just make facts up as you go along. Thats why I'm saying that Man City's proposal was better thought out encompassing all the redevelopment around the stadium academies hotels shops food outlets the works, which is why I would have thought it came through the process much more intact than PSG's. I'm not claiming to know anything, just stating my deductions from things I've read in the open media.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 1, 2014 11:15:12 GMT
He shouldn't be anywhere near the first team in any of his favoured positions and should never again be considered an option at right back. Are we still on about the first team regular from our best ever Season in the Prem?
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Post by Paul Spencer on Aug 1, 2014 11:15:24 GMT
But who would you drop from the bench in my post above WD to accommodate him?
When you've already got Wilson and Muinesa on there, you can't really justify having a third utility player as one of your subs.
Bench? I'd have him starting plenty of games mate. So who would you lose from my bench to accommodate Bardsley then?
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Post by Deleted on Aug 1, 2014 11:16:18 GMT
GC should start the season at right back and it should be his position to lose, was there 9 clubs interested in Bardsley? Doubt it I'd go with that mate.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 1, 2014 11:18:26 GMT
Bench? I'd have him starting plenty of games mate. So who would you lose from my bench to accommodate Bardsley then? I haven't seen your post sorry mate.
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Post by wearepremierleague on Aug 1, 2014 11:19:10 GMT
We're in trouble of replacing a side that finished 9th last year with near enough a completely new team. Bardsley for Cameron, Sidwell for Nzonzi, Bojan for Ireland/ Odemwingie. Diouf for Crouch. Even Huth for Wilson would mean basically half the team has changed. Selling the players we know can do the job is senseless.
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Post by Paul Spencer on Aug 1, 2014 11:19:11 GMT
So you're suggesting that PSG's lawyers/accountants/executives are all just crap at their jobs then? What I'm probably suggesting is that they were a bit too confident in bulldozing through a proposal that did not encompass enough elements to allow them enough wriggle room in their ensuing arguments. Its something you'd need to be very thorough and methodical about right from the start you can't just make facts up as you go along. Thats why I'm saying that Man City's proposal was better thought out encompassing all the redevelopment around the stadium academies hotels shops food outlets the works, which is why I would have thought it came through the process much more intact than PSG's. I'm not claiming to know anything, just stating my deductions from things I've read in the open media.
Right so you are suggesting that they're just simply incompetent then!
I think the rules are there for a reason and the authorities aren't going to get the wool pulled over their eyes too easily and anyway, as Lakeland has already said above, I don't think Denise is going to be in a hurry to do sponsorship deals that heavily favour Stoke City without actually giving bet365 value for money anyway.
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Post by Paul Spencer on Aug 1, 2014 11:22:11 GMT
So who would you lose from my bench to accommodate Bardsley then? I haven't seen your post sorry mate. For the life of me, I can't see how we can find a space for Geoff even on the bench next season.
The problem for him is that we already have two really good utility players likely to be regular substitutes next season, one right footed (Wilson) and one left footed (Muniesa) and there's no way you can justify having a third utility player on the bench.
If the first XI looks something like:
--------------Begovic---------------
Bardsley---Ryan---Huth---Pieters
--------Whelan-----N'Zonzi--------
----MFW------Ireland-----Arnie----
----------------Diouf-----------------
then your bench cover would look something like this:
------------Tommy/Jack-------------
Wilson----Wilson---Muniesa----Muniesa
---Wilson/Muniesa-----Sidwell-------
--ODW---------ODW----------Assaidi--
-------------Bojan/ODW-----------------
which would give you a 7 man bench of:
Tommy/Jack Wilson Muniesa Sidwell Odemwingie Assaidi Bojan
So who exactly do you drop from that bench to give Geoff a place?
And yes I can't find a spot for Charlie either!
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Post by alster on Aug 1, 2014 11:26:20 GMT
For all of Bardsley's 'experience' at PL level, it's not as if he's ever stood out or been particularly brilliant. He's been part of average defences in average teams. For me, he's a good, steady player who will probably offer less than Cameron going forward but more in terms of defence and positioning. I wouldn't say he's better than Cameron, purely for the fact that we finished 9th with Cameron a virtual ever-present last season.
He was one of if not the best Sunderland player last season and scored more goals than Cameron.
Bardsley just knows the position inside out and is a fairly solid journeyman professional. I'm not sure Cameron knows any position inside out, I'm not even sure he grasps all of the basics. He compensates by being a fine athlete, having very strong will and determination to succeed. Admirable qualities no doubt but I just think his rawness is shown up too often at Premier League standard.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 1, 2014 11:27:03 GMT
Spencer,
I think there are too many variables at play to start guessing starting XI's and subs bench. Some players will (hopefully) move on and 1 or 2 more maybe coming in.
However you stack it up, I don't see how a mainstay in our most successful prem campaign all of a sudden becomes a reserve not even capable of getting a place on the bench.
You have Muniesa and Wilson on your bench but there is nothing to suggest both would be ahead of Cameron. Is it just as feasible that Wilson and Cameron are ahead of Muniesa? Wilson can cover LB, CB and RB and Cameron can cover RB, CB and possible CM. It is just as feasible that Muniesa and Cameron are ahead of Wilson? Muniesa can cover LB and CB and Cameron can cover RB, CB and CM?
It's early doors to suggest who is surplus just yet. I reckon Geoff still has a part to play.
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Post by hollywood on Aug 1, 2014 11:30:40 GMT
It could all be about money. Not just from the club's side.
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Post by wearepremierleague on Aug 1, 2014 11:32:36 GMT
People raving about Bardsley are clearly forgetting that Sunderland tried to sign Cameron I think.
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Post by Paul Spencer on Aug 1, 2014 11:33:21 GMT
Spencer, I think there are too many variables at play to start guessing starting XI's and subs bench. Some players will (hopefully) move on and 1 or 2 more maybe coming in. However you stack it up, I don't see how a mainstay in our most successful prem campaign all of a sudden becomes a reserve not even capable of getting a place on the bench. You have Muniesa and Wilson on your bench but there is nothing to suggest both would be ahead of Cameron. Is it just as feasible that Wilson and Cameron are ahead of Muniesa? Wilson can cover LB, CB and RB and Cameron can cover RB, CB and possible CM. It is just as feasible that Muniesa and Cameron are ahead of Wilson? Muniesa can cover LB and CB and Cameron can cover RB, CB and CM? It's early doors to suggest who is surplus just yet. I reckon Geoff still has a part to play. We'll I guess it's two from three of Muniesa, Wilson and Cameron (which is what your post pretty much reflects) and I was just attempting to put it into some sort of context. If one of the three is going to miss out of the 18 man match day squad, then I can see why it might be more likely to be Geoff than one of the other two.
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Post by alster on Aug 1, 2014 11:34:27 GMT
People raving about Bardsley are clearly forgetting that Sunderland tried to sign Cameron I think. Personally I think you should.
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Post by pez75 on Aug 1, 2014 11:35:00 GMT
People raving about Bardsley are clearly forgetting that Sunderland tried to sign Cameron I think. People slagging off Bardlsey are clearly forgetting that he played in a completely different team with different players. Works both ways...
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Post by wembley4372 on Aug 1, 2014 11:39:59 GMT
I know I have nodded of during the Pulis era but not under Hughes, but where does the evidence for Cameron playing well in these multiple positions stem from. I don't think I've seen it? I hope it's not from the World Cup against a poor team where being caught out of position doesn't matter.
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Post by alster on Aug 1, 2014 11:44:08 GMT
Spencer, I think there are too many variables at play to start guessing starting XI's and subs bench. Some players will (hopefully) move on and 1 or 2 more maybe coming in. However you stack it up, I don't see how a mainstay in our most successful prem campaign all of a sudden becomes a reserve not even capable of getting a place on the bench. You have Muniesa and Wilson on your bench but there is nothing to suggest both would be ahead of Cameron. Is it just as feasible that Wilson and Cameron are ahead of Muniesa? Wilson can cover LB, CB and RB and Cameron can cover RB, CB and possible CM. It is just as feasible that Muniesa and Cameron are ahead of Wilson? Muniesa can cover LB and CB and Cameron can cover RB, CB and CM? It's early doors to suggest who is surplus just yet. I reckon Geoff still has a part to play. We'll I guess it's two from three of Muniesa, Wilson and Cameron (which is what your post pretty much reflects) and I was just attempting to put it into some sort of context. If one of the three is going to miss out of the 18 man match day squad, then I can see why it might be more likely to be Geoff than one of the other two. I think your deduction was spot on and that Muni and Wilson are more longterm Stoke City players. They're a better age and on longer contracts. At 29 Geoff has so much to improve in his game that even if he could improve he'd be physically on the wane by the time he'd done so. If he we're a youngster I'd say keep hold and work with him on his weak areas at his age I'd let him go he's probably at his peak.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Aug 1, 2014 11:44:39 GMT
Cameron was caught out of position loads in the World Cup.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 1, 2014 11:48:30 GMT
Cameron was caught out of position loads in the World Cup. But he was AT the World Cup, and played a part in his team getting to the knock-out stages, one of the actual sides that came out of it with some credit too. He put in some great performances to boot.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 1, 2014 11:54:02 GMT
Bardsley is a right back, Cameron isn't. I hope we keep him, we need a strong squad and he can cover a number of positions but if he wants to move for first team football then good luck to him.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Aug 1, 2014 11:55:09 GMT
I know, we're going to get a fortune for him!
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Post by penkvillepotter on Aug 1, 2014 11:56:40 GMT
Am I the only one that thinks G-Cam played a decent part in our success last season? No you're not
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Post by davejohnno1 on Aug 1, 2014 12:25:31 GMT
I seem to fall into the sheer stupidity category as defined by Onlooker . We have Bardsley who is probably our preferred right back, Wilson is more adaptable than Cameron and covers the same or more positions, so I would let him go for the right offer. Can't see him being a regular starter or pushing out Whelan, Sidwell or Wilson. If we are to experiment with a midfield stopper, let's try Muni. Sums up my thoughts exactly. If he goes, he goes. No great loss either way. We have better options than Cameron in all the positions he can apparently play in so if we have to lose some of last seasons first team squad, it would make sense for him to be the first casualty followed swiftly out of the door by Adam and Crouch.
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Post by NassauDave on Aug 1, 2014 12:33:15 GMT
I'd rather we kept him and got rid of Wilko and Shotton. Still think he has a job too do. Good shout there.
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Post by claudinho on Aug 1, 2014 12:53:43 GMT
I hope he's sold. Deserves better than the unceremonious loss of his spot to a RB brought in on a free transfer from a club that barely avoided relegation.
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Post by claudinho on Aug 1, 2014 12:55:45 GMT
Am I the only one that thinks G-Cam played a decent part in our success last season? Evidently so. It's unfortunate that Potters supporters didn't watch Bardsley's less-than-average campaign at Sunderland last year. Be careful what you wish for.
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Post by claudinho on Aug 1, 2014 12:58:09 GMT
Not sure why people think Bardsley would be worse at RB than Cameron. It's his specialist position with years of top level experience as apposed to Cameron who doesn't know what he is. While Cameron was OK last season and he is very athletic, he had some very poor games and the manager, judging by his touchline actions, does not rate Geoff as a right back. Bardsley will be a more consistent performer over the season in that position. I'd keep Cameron as a player who can put pressure on several positions. Whether he would be happy with that is up to him. Because he's not very good, which is why a terrible Sunderland side let him go?
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