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Post by desman2 on Sept 9, 2014 16:40:43 GMT
I thought that most of the oil rigs up that way were in English territorial waters. I might be wrong but im sure it was the case.
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Post by sergiogomes on Sept 9, 2014 16:49:31 GMT
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Post by pearo on Sept 9, 2014 16:50:40 GMT
David Cameron is playing a blinder for the Conservatives, his continual stance that the Union needs to remain in tact means many things but most importantly this:-
Should the yes vote prevail, the Conservatives lose one MP, Labour lose 41, those constituencies can no longer be part of a Westminster based Government which effectively means Labour will not govern again for a long time, if ever. So even if Boris replaces Dave he's laid the foundations for years of Conservative Government.
Should the no vote prevail the Tory press hail Dave as a master politician who saved the Union and the future of the UK
Win, win for Cameron
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Post by sergiogomes on Sept 9, 2014 16:53:14 GMT
We shall see whether it's " Bullshit " if and when it happens won't we ?....... Easy to make a sweeping statement like that when it can't be clarified until some point in the future ......for every link like the one you've posted there are others to be found that take the opposite view Read more: oatcakefanzine.proboards.com/thread/232778/happens-scotland-votes?page=5#ixzz3Cq1eNkOeIt'll happen. Even if it takes another referendum in 5 years the Union is over. Only pensioners and Orange men left as the absolute core "No" voters now, as the former die off a landslide for separation is inevitable. Be best to get it over and done with now.
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Post by kbillyh on Sept 9, 2014 19:23:01 GMT
Below is my prediction from Feb, seem to recall it was ridiculed at the time but i think it's still on the mark.
Feb 17, 2014 16:33:02 GMT 1 kbillyh said: Prediction:
1.They will vote for independence, why wouldn't they. If someone gave me the chance to fuck off the Tories and Labour i'd snap their hand off. Do you really think Cameron lecturing the Scots will sway them to stay?
2.Our main parties will change their mind on not letting them have the pound in the run up to our general election after lobbying by big business. It just wouldn't be practical for them and will affect their profits, and lets face it, that's who our politicians actually represent at the moment.
3.After the separation the Scottish will ditch the SNP, hopefully for a new party that will actually represent the voters rather than big business. This isn't about Alex Salmond for the Scottish, the media are trying to set this agenda though as it muddies the water.
It's a fantastic opportunity for them in my opinion, but it's nowt to do with me i suppose.
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Post by desman2 on Sept 9, 2014 19:28:18 GMT
We shall see whether it's " Bullshit " if and when it happens won't we ?....... Easy to make a sweeping statement like that when it can't be clarified until some point in the future ......for every link like the one you've posted there are others to be found that take the opposite view Read more: oatcakefanzine.proboards.com/thread/232778/happens-scotland-votes?page=5#ixzz3Cq1eNkOeIt'll happen. Even if it takes another referendum in 5 years the Union is over. Only pensioners and Orange men left as the absolute core "No" voters now, as the former die off a landslide for separation is inevitable. Be best to get it over and done with now. Ahhh now you are showing your true colours
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Post by boothenboy75 on Sept 10, 2014 3:02:07 GMT
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Post by lawrieleslie on Sept 10, 2014 7:17:53 GMT
Another article I have seen but conner find it suggests that not all oil fields will belong to the Scots. Sea space is apparently internationally agreed upon to be a line extending into the sea at the same angle as the countries boarders. So Scottish/English boundary runs North East from Carlisle to Berwick and when extended into the North Sea leaves some oil fields in English territory. However Salmond has re-written the rules, as he has with many proposals, and he has drawn a horizontal line from Berwick along line of latitude and claiming everything north is Scottish territory. In addition to this many oil fields are Shetland territory and they may decide to remain within the union and demand a seperate referendum to do so if Scots vote yes. That really would put cat amongst the pigeons.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 10, 2014 8:44:22 GMT
David Cameron is playing a blinder for the Conservatives, his continual stance that the Union needs to remain in tact means many things but most importantly this:- Should the yes vote prevail, the Conservatives lose one MP, Labour lose 41, those constituencies can no longer be part of a Westminster based Government which effectively means Labour will not govern again for a long time, if ever. So even if Boris replaces Dave he's laid the foundations for years of Conservative Government. Should the no vote prevail the Tory press hail Dave as a master politician who saved the Union and the future of the UK Win, win for Cameron Nah, Nige. They leave, his authority is damaged as a leader, not fatally but damaged all the same as the PM who wanted to keep the Union ends up with egg on his face. Anti-europe Tory MPs seize their chance to make life more difficult for a weakened leader = electoral impact next May. They stay, Labour loses dozens of MPs to an independent Scotland in a couple of years. People in the rest of the UK realise that, with the result that the anti-Tory vote is galvanised. I think you'll see a re-balancing of who votes Tory and who votes Labour in the rest of the UK. Remember that around 50-60% of the rest of the UK doesn't vote Tory but that anti-Tory vote is split between other parties. Perhaps it'll be the end of the Lib Dems as people realise that voting for them is effectively voting for the Tories. We might end up in England with a two party system like in America Interesting times ahead hopefully.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 10, 2014 8:49:07 GMT
We shall see whether it's " Bullshit " if and when it happens won't we ?....... Easy to make a sweeping statement like that when it can't be clarified until some point in the future ......for every link like the one you've posted there are others to be found that take the opposite view Read more: oatcakefanzine.proboards.com/thread/232778/happens-scotland-votes?page=5#ixzz3Cq1eNkOeIt'll happen. Even if it takes another referendum in 5 years the Union is over. Only pensioners and Orange men left as the absolute core "No" voters now, as the former die off a landslide for separation is inevitable. Be best to get it over and done with now. Agree. It's been moving this way since the referendum in 1979. And with Scotland showing increasing distaste for England's "greed is good, privatise everything, never mind the quality just consider the shareholders" agenda, it'll come soon enough. And if they get these fabled new powers after a no vote, they'll be virtually independent anyway so the call will probably be just to take that one small step further.
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Post by salopstick on Sept 10, 2014 9:00:11 GMT
We shall see whether it's " Bullshit " if and when it happens won't we ?....... Easy to make a sweeping statement like that when it can't be clarified until some point in the future ......for every link like the one you've posted there are others to be found that take the opposite view Read more: oatcakefanzine.proboards.com/thread/232778/happens-scotland-votes?page=5#ixzz3Cq1eNkOeIt'll happen. Even if it takes another referendum in 5 years the Union is over. Only pensioners and Orange men left as the absolute core "No" voters now, as the former die off a landslide for separation is inevitable. Be best to get it over and done with now. Agree. It's been moving this way since the referendum in 1979. And with Scotland showing increasing distaste for England's "greed is good, privatise everything, never mind the quality just consider the shareholders" agenda, it'll come soon enough. And if they get these fabled new powers after a no vote, they'll be virtually independent anyway so the call will probably be just to take that one small step further. There will be no further referendum If the no vote wins we will see further devolution. We may/should be heading to a federal uk type system. Now that would be in the interest of all
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Post by Deleted on Sept 10, 2014 9:06:52 GMT
I'm sure they said that back in 1979! Along with there will never be a Scottish parliament. I used to live in Edinburgh. For years there was a guy who sat every day outside the entrance to Calton Hill campaigning for a Scottish parliament. He got there in the end. (I have no idea if he's still there campaigning for full independence).
The Scots will never start voting Tory. They will forever be complaining about being governed by a parliament which doesn't represent them or their views and imposes policies on them which they don't want. Not even Devo Max will remove that. Eventually they will vote for independence just for that reason alone.
Describe this federal uk system.
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Post by desman2 on Sept 10, 2014 9:44:12 GMT
Federal system would be each country has its own parliament looking after its internal affairs, along with a full parliament which debates matters which either improve or threaten the nations as a whole. The full Parliament would be elected and made up of equal representation from all four nations.
Oh and the house of lords would be fucked off.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 10, 2014 10:39:23 GMT
Federal system would be each country has its own parliament looking after its internal affairs, along with a full parliament which debates matters which either improve or threaten the nations as a whole. The full Parliament would be elected and made up of equal representation from all four nations. Oh and the house of lords would be fucked off. I was hoping Salop would do it, but I guess he's busy googling it I like the idea of getting rid of an unelected second chamber. Who decides which matters threaten or improve the nations as a whole though? Especially if each federal 'state' has its own tax raising and spending controls and is spending money in completely different directions. You may as well just be independent in that case. You wouldn't have equal representation when each country has different population levels and has different electoral systems. Can't see it.
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Post by Staffsoatcake on Sept 10, 2014 13:23:14 GMT
I'm a bit confused over this North Sea oil, does Scotland have the right to it, after all Scotland alone didn't finance it all did they?
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Post by desman2 on Sept 10, 2014 13:42:42 GMT
Its private companies that bring it up. They would recieve the taxes on the sale of it.
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Post by Mr_DaftBurger on Sept 10, 2014 13:47:30 GMT
I think the three amigos going there should seal the yes vote! So compulsory PVR for all serving Scots from the Armed Forces? Work permits required for all working in what is left of the UK? If they want to go let them. Once we had an empire.......
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Post by adri2008 on Sept 10, 2014 14:31:03 GMT
The leaders of the main UK parties had no choice but to go to Scotland really - they're between a rock and a hard place.
Option 1: They don't go. Salmond says they don't care about Scotland Option 2: They go. Salmond paints it as Team Scotland vs Team Westminster (apparently the 50% or so who want to remain British aren't part of Team Scotland)
Personally I'm tired of all the bleating about it - the level of discussion would have been better suited to a football match based upon the 2 televised debates I saw. The no campaign has been far too negative too - there are plenty of good reasons to stay in the UK, the way it's been reported you'd have thought the UK was some sort of total hell hole and not one of the better places to live in the world when all is said and done.
I suspect an independence yes vote will result in initial turmoil and probably a flight of capital from Scotland until it all settles down. In the medium term, no doubt things will be similar to now - Scotland will neither be some enlightened utopia nor some ravaged wilderness, and the evil Tory bogeyman will be replaced by some other group/party/person who people feel are responsible for all their ills.
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Post by lastoftheldk on Sept 10, 2014 14:48:16 GMT
The establishment are worried
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Post by bathstoke on Sept 10, 2014 15:35:57 GMT
We shall see whether it's " Bullshit " if and when it happens won't we ?....... Easy to make a sweeping statement like that when it can't be clarified until some point in the future ......for every link like the one you've posted there are others to be found that take the opposite view Read more: oatcakefanzine.proboards.com/thread/232778/happens-scotland-votes?page=5#ixzz3Cq1eNkOeIt'll happen. Even if it takes another referendum in 5 years the Union is over. Only pensioners and Orange men left as the absolute core "No" voters now, as the former die off a landslide for separation is inevitable. Be best to get it over and done with now. "Drink to Billy!"
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Post by Deleted on Sept 10, 2014 16:02:12 GMT
The leaders of the main UK parties had no choice but to go to Scotland really - they're between a rock and a hard place. Option 1: They don't go. Salmond says they don't care about Scotland Option 2: They go. Salmond paints it as Team Scotland vs Team Westminster (apparently the 50% or so who want to remain British aren't part of Team Scotland) Personally I'm tired of all the bleating about it - the level of discussion would have been better suited to a football match based upon the 2 televised debates I saw. The no campaign has been far too negative too - there are plenty of good reasons to stay in the UK, the way it's been reported you'd have thought the UK was some sort of total hell hole and not one of the better places to live in the world when all is said and done. I suspect an independence yes vote will result in initial turmoil and probably a flight of capital from Scotland until it all settles down. In the medium term, no doubt things will be similar to now - Scotland will neither be some enlightened utopia nor some ravaged wilderness, and the evil Tory bogeyman will be replaced by some other group/party/person who people feel are responsible for all their ills. The leaders fucked up big time by not paying more attention to it earlier on because they were complacently taking the polls which were showing a big no majority as being the end result. If they'd bothered to show some interest at various points throughout the campaign this latest move wouldn't look so desperate and contrived and they may have made enough impact to affect the result. Everything they do now smacks of desperation, flying the saltire over Downing Street (for the first and last time no doubt - a token gesture which was probably seen through easily enough north of the border), abandoning PMQs, the Tory Press headlines using the Queen as emotional blackmail, it goes on. Maybe it'll work and enough people will be swayed to vote no, but it's just delaying the inevitable. People in Scotland generally don't like the way UK plc is heading. When privatisation of the water supply was on the agenda they voted 97% in favour of keeping it in public hands. The Tory reply was to denounce it as a flawed and unrepresentative poll. They also remember the imposition of the poll tax one year early as if they were guinea pigs to be experimented upon. The 'elephant in the room' is the fact of being governed on a regular basis by a Westminster elite that no-one in Scotland votes or cares for. And the more Bullingdonesque these people are, the less Scotland wants them.
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Post by bathstoke on Sept 10, 2014 16:32:42 GMT
The leaders of the main UK parties had no choice but to go to Scotland really - they're between a rock and a hard place. Option 1: They don't go. Salmond says they don't care about Scotland Option 2: They go. Salmond paints it as Team Scotland vs Team Westminster (apparently the 50% or so who want to remain British aren't part of Team Scotland) Personally I'm tired of all the bleating about it - the level of discussion would have been better suited to a foo tball match based upon the 2 televised debates I saw. The no campaign has been far too negative too - there are plenty of good reasons to stay in the UK, the way it's been reported you'd have thought the UK was some sort of total hell hole and not one of the better places to live in the world when all is said and done. I suspect an independence yes vote will result in initial turmoil and probably a flight of capital from Scotland until it all settles down. In the medium term, no doubt things will be similar to now - Scotland will neither be some enlightened utopia nor some ravaged wilderness, and the evil Tory bogeyman will be replaced by some other group/party/person who people feel are responsible for all their ills. The leaders fucked up big time by not paying more attention to it earlier on because they were complacently taking the polls which were showing a big no majority as being the end result. If they'd bothered to show some interest at various points throughout the campaign this latest move wouldn't look so desperate and contrived and they may have made enough impact to affect the result. Everything they do now smacks of desperation, flying the saltire over Downing Street (for the first and last time no doubt - a token gesture which was probably seen through easily enough north of the border), abandoning PMQs, the Tory Press headlines using the Queen as emotional blackmail, it goes on. Maybe it'll work and enough people will be swayed to vote no, but it's just delaying the inevitable. People in Scotland generally don't like the way UK plc is heading. When privatisation of the water supply was on the agend they voted 97% in favour of keeping it in public hands. The Tory reply was to denounce it as a flawed and unrepresentative poll. They also remember the imposition of the poll tax one year early as if they were guinea pigs to be experimented upon. The 'elephant in the room' is the fact of being governed on a regular basis by a Westminster elite that no-one in Scotland votes or cares for. And the more Bullingdonesque these people are, the less Scotland wants them. It's not just the Jocks who don't want them you know!?!
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Post by desman2 on Sept 10, 2014 17:42:17 GMT
Voting in the UK is comparible to a pair of 3D glasses. One red lens and one blue, but when you put em on the picture is still the same.
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Post by desman2 on Sept 10, 2014 18:09:09 GMT
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Post by AlliG on Sept 10, 2014 19:29:37 GMT
David Cameron is playing a blinder for the Conservatives, his continual stance that the Union needs to remain in tact means many things but most importantly this:- Should the yes vote prevail, the Conservatives lose one MP, Labour lose 41, those constituencies can no longer be part of a Westminster based Government which effectively means Labour will not govern again for a long time, if ever. So even if Boris replaces Dave he's laid the foundations for years of Conservative Government. Should the no vote prevail the Tory press hail Dave as a master politician who saved the Union and the future of the UK Win, win for Cameron Couldn't disagree more! Cameron is politically a dead man walking whatever the result (just like Gordon Brown and his long delayed General Election). A Yes vote and as the leader of the UK Government he will be blamed and carry the can for the break up of the Union. There might only be 1 Tory MP in Scotland, but there are plenty of Scottish Tory Peers and a sizeable Tory vote. (Not all the posh Public Schools are in England. There are plenty in Scotland and I swould suggest that their pupils and parents have more in common with "posh" Dave than the residents of the Glasgow tenaments). A No vote and he will be blamed for the cost of the last minute "bribe" and "punished" by the English side of the Tory Party once they realise just how much that "bribe" will cost the rest of us. What I don't understand is, if the economic case for independence is as strong as Salmond says, why would he want currency union? If Scotland booms after independence why would you want to be tied to a weaker economy, pay interest rates that are out of alignment with your own economy and risk having to pay towards the recovery costs of that weaker economy? Is Salmond sitting at home tonight with a huge smug grin on his face in the knowledge that he is guaranteed his "Devo-Max" option (that he originally wanted on the Referendum) which would allow him to take all the credit for the good things in Scotland but retain the option to blame England (or the EU) if anything goes wrong?
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Post by pearo on Sept 10, 2014 21:29:38 GMT
David Cameron is playing a blinder for the Conservatives, his continual stance that the Union needs to remain in tact means many things but most importantly this:- Should the yes vote prevail, the Conservatives lose one MP, Labour lose 41, those constituencies can no longer be part of a Westminster based Government which effectively means Labour will not govern again for a long time, if ever. So even if Boris replaces Dave he's laid the foundations for years of Conservative Government. Should the no vote prevail the Tory press hail Dave as a master politician who saved the Union and the future of the UK Win, win for Cameron Couldn't disagree more! Cameron is politically a dead man walking whatever the result (just like Gordon Brown and his long delayed General Election). A Yes vote and as the leader of the UK Government he will be blamed and carry the can for the break up of the Union. There might only be 1 Tory MP in Scotland, but there are plenty of Scottish Tory Peers and a sizeable Tory vote. (Not all the posh Public Schools are in England. There are plenty in Scotland and I swould suggest that their pupils and parents have more in common with "posh" Dave than the residents of the Glasgow tenaments). A No vote and he will be blamed for the cost of the last minute "bribe" and "punished" by the English side of the Tory Party once they realise just how much that "bribe" will cost the rest of us. What I don't understand is, if the economic case for independence is as strong as Salmond says, why would he want currency union? If Scotland booms after independence why would you want to be tied to a weaker economy, pay interest rates that are out of alignment with your own economy and risk having to pay towards the recovery costs of that weaker economy? Is Salmond sitting at home tonight with a huge smug grin on his face in the knowledge that he is guaranteed his "Devo-Max" option (that he originally wanted on the Referendum) which would allow him to take all the credit for the good things in Scotland but retain the option to blame England (or the EU) if anything goes wrong? Like most people you are under the mistaken belief that Westminster actually want the Scots to vote no. All the recent pontificating by the main party leaders is just a smokescreen to make the average person feel that they actually care. This vote is being driven by the force that is the civil service, in as much as they are fooling people into believing Westminster cares and then when Scotland votes yes the Sir Humphrey's rub their hands and say to Mr. Salmond "excuse me did you read the small print?" The three remaining members of the union ride off into the sunset while all Scotland can do is blow on a bagpipe or two.
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Post by lastoftheldk on Sept 10, 2014 23:16:48 GMT
They are getting desperate, anything could happen in the next few days,
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Post by Deleted on Sept 10, 2014 23:26:59 GMT
They are getting desperate, anything could happen in the next few days, How desperate idk ? ....an assassination attempt on Salmond perhaps ?
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Post by lastoftheldk on Sept 10, 2014 23:31:40 GMT
They are getting desperate, anything could happen in the next few days, How desperate idk ? ....an assassination attempt on Salmond perhaps ? Bispham, nothing would surprise me, expect anything
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Post by thevoid on Sept 10, 2014 23:51:17 GMT
Considering Scottish independence would weaken L*bour's position in England, I say: Attachment Deleted
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