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Post by desman2 on Sept 11, 2014 0:03:46 GMT
How desperate idk ? ....an assassination attempt on Salmond perhaps ? Bispham, nothing would surprise me, expect anything As long as he stays out of light aircraft.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 11, 2014 7:59:14 GMT
How convenient that the publicly owned RBS has announced it'll move its HQ to London if Scotland votes yes! I don't doubt a few behind the scenes phone calls have been made by those in the no camp to those public servants running RBS!
Finally the no camp has realised that it is this which is most likely to influence voters. It won't be anything the politicians say, more people worrying about jobs that swings it.
Salmond really needs to address this issue to reassure yes voters. It's the yes camp's achilles heel. Perhaps hint that this kind of action would see hundreds of thousands of Scots considering the RBS no longer a Scottish banking institution with all the closed accounts that might entail.
I hope they go for it, I really want to see how it all pans out. It'll be much more interesting than the current dull state of party politics.
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Post by kbillyh on Sept 11, 2014 8:25:26 GMT
Consider the poor bankers and vote "No".......That should work.
The desperation the Establishment is stooping to is so transparent to the Scots as i'm starting to wonder if they are after the sympathy vote.
I was also under the impression that announcing new policies in the run up to an election is considered illegal, isn't it the Purdah law or something? Perhaps the Scots should demand international observers to come in to secure this election being run fairly.
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Post by salopstick on Sept 11, 2014 8:39:25 GMT
Nos back in the lead
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Post by desman2 on Sept 11, 2014 9:13:25 GMT
Actually these sort of announcements shouldn't be allowed once a postal vote can be submitted. It's not fair on those who have now submitted postal votes. Once postal votes can be sent in then the election process has started and this should be prohibited.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 11, 2014 10:45:46 GMT
Excellent point, but when did rules apply when the establishment is under threat?
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Post by desman2 on Sept 11, 2014 11:02:28 GMT
Excellent point, but when did rules apply when the establishment is under threat? Thats definately true. This issue has been going on for a long time yet its only now, a few days before the vote that these parasites come out. These businesses who are pouring doom on the Scots have no interest in the people up there. It's all bullshit and theyve probably now started a process where many people who use these institutions in Scotland will move their cash elsewhere.
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Post by lastoftheldk on Sept 11, 2014 11:20:25 GMT
BP making threats now
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Post by desman2 on Sept 11, 2014 12:27:24 GMT
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Post by mcf on Sept 11, 2014 12:38:14 GMT
Excellent point, but when did rules apply when the establishment is under threat? Thats definately true. This issue has been going on for a long time yet its only now, a few days before the vote that these parasites come out. These businesses who are pouring doom on the Scots have no interest in the people up there. It's all bullshit and theyve probably now started a process where many people who use these institutions in Scotland will move their cash elsewhere. I don't think that is true. I've read a few articles over the last few months where businesses and media have declared what was likely to happen if Scotland said yes. There was no need for businesses to go over the top when the yes campaign was miles behind. It is right that they do so now so that people vote with open eyes and you can hardly have a go at businesses about this without Salmond's absolute inability to answer the tricky questions. These businesses don't need to care for the people of Scotland either - they are paid employees that need to care about their responsibilites to their employer first and foremost. That's not bullshit - it's making what they think are the correct business decisions. They might not eventually move when push comes to shove but they are certainly right to state their intentions.
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Post by mcf on Sept 11, 2014 12:41:32 GMT
Salmond's going to come out of this smelling of roses whatever happens. He wins, he's led his country to independence and can go down in history however it eventually pans out. He loses, he gets Devo Max (which he wanted on the ballot paper at the very beginning) and an independent country in all but name and without the issue of currency problems. If the Westminster govt then defaults on these new promised powers, there'll be an overwhelming clamour for another referendum and a yes vote landslide. There's also the issue of the supposed in/out EU referendum in 2017. What if the people of Scotland vote to remain in Europe but the rest of the UK wants out (as might be the case). More grist to the mill for those Scots who say we're always told what to do by Westminster. Another referendum? His arse is covered all ways. No wonder he's looking so relaxed and happy in contrast to Cameron, but he is a master campaigner you have to give him that. Has anyone seen or heard anything from Alastair Darling since the second debate? Leading your country to be an independent shithole is hardly a 'win' is it? I'm not saying that will happen but it's a distinct possibility and there is likely to be a significant part of Scotland that does want to stay. If it goes wrong, and I'm pretty sure there will be pain on both sides of the fence initially, then I reckon he will be despised....probably even more than Thatcher
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Post by desman2 on Sept 11, 2014 12:42:41 GMT
But the CEO from the RBS has sent a letter to staff telling them nothing changes regardless.
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Post by kbillyh on Sept 11, 2014 12:52:22 GMT
The argument that there will be an exodus of business from Scotland in the event of a yes vote is absurd.
Why would they leave a vibrant economy. Desperate scaremongering.
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Post by mcf on Sept 11, 2014 12:55:09 GMT
But the CEO from the RBS has sent a letter to staff telling them nothing changes regardless. That's good then isn't it?
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Post by Deleted on Sept 11, 2014 13:13:33 GMT
The argument that there will be an exodus of business from Scotland in the event of a yes vote is absurd. Why would they leave a vibrant economy. Desperate scaremongering. Well it's uncertain yet as to whether Scotland will have a vibrant economy .....it remains to be seen , the success of an Independent Scotland will only be able to be judged several years down the line , to urge caution may be seen by some as scaremongering , to others just plain common sense
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Post by Deleted on Sept 11, 2014 13:21:07 GMT
The argument that there will be an exodus of business from Scotland in the event of a yes vote is absurd. Why would they leave a vibrant economy. Desperate scaremongering. so using common sense and telling voters of possible outcomes is desperate scaremongering (and remember it's the compnaies themselves NOT Westminster that are saying this) but it's absolutely fine to already decide upon and call it a "Vibrant economy" when you don't even have a scoobies what feckin currency will be in place let alone whether or not it'll actually be successful??? cracking logic that Mr. Salmond mate!! brush aside what others outside of westminster say (businesses, member states of the EU, VP of the EU, chairman of the council or europe etc.) as mere propaganda and then fill in your own blanks as fact and what WILL happen despite those who make the decisions saying it won't. what's the temperature like down there in that sand your head's buried in?
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Post by Deleted on Sept 11, 2014 13:27:48 GMT
The argument that there will be an exodus of business from Scotland in the event of a yes vote is absurd. Why would they leave a vibrant economy. Desperate scaremongering. so using common sense and telling voters of possible outcomes is desperate scaremongering (and remember it's the compnaies themselves NOT Westminster that are saying this) but it's absolutely fine to already decide upon and call it a "Vibrant economy" when you don't even have a scoobies what feckin currency will be in place let alone whether or not it'll actually be successful??? cracking logic that Mr. Salmond mate!! brush aside what others outside of westminster say (businesses, member states of the EU, VP of the EU, chairman of the council or europe etc.) as mere propaganda and then fill in your own blanks as fact and what WILL happen despite those who make the decisions saying it won't. what's the temperature like down there in that sand your head's buried in? Yes a vibrant economy without a viable currency ( but they have plenty of options , don't they ?) .....please someone tell me how that could work
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Post by thevoid on Sept 11, 2014 13:36:24 GMT
If they do vote yes, what will the rest of the UK be known as?
Bearing in mind 'Great Britain and Northern Ireland' refers to the island of GB as a whole (including Scotland), and United Kingdom isn't relevant as Wales is a principality.
We'd surely just be 'Britain', how symbolic the way this country's heading...
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Post by mcf on Sept 11, 2014 13:41:35 GMT
If they do vote yes, what will the rest of the UK be known as? Bearing in mind 'Great Britain and Northern Ireland' refers to the island of GB as a whole (including Scotland), and United Kingdom isn't relevant as Wales is a principality. We'd surely just be 'Britain', how symbolic the way this country's heading... 'Greater Britain' as surely we will be better without them
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Post by salopstick on Sept 11, 2014 13:54:48 GMT
Salmond's going to come out of this smelling of roses whatever happens. He wins, he's led his country to independence and can go down in history however it eventually pans out. He loses, he gets Devo Max (which he wanted on the ballot paper at the very beginning) and an independent country in all but name and without the issue of currency problems. If the Westminster govt then defaults on these new promised powers, there'll be an overwhelming clamour for another referendum and a yes vote landslide. There's also the issue of the supposed in/out EU referendum in 2017. What if the people of Scotland vote to remain in Europe but the rest of the UK wants out (as might be the case). More grist to the mill for those Scots who say we're always told what to do by Westminster. Another referendum? His arse is covered all ways. No wonder he's looking so relaxed and happy in contrast to Cameron, but he is a master campaigner you have to give him that. Has anyone seen or heard anything from Alastair Darling since the second debate? The SNP is the party who always want more but take that one extra mouthful and get sick, they wanted devolution we gave it and by in large works. weve gone from cameron smelling of roses when he was behind if he loses to now salmond in the same boat. if alex salmond loses the national party in scotland is finished. scotland will remain part of the uk for ever as there will be no further referendum he will then have to be "The in scotlands best interests" party The only people losing if scotland vote NO is the SNP.
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Post by kbillyh on Sept 11, 2014 14:00:37 GMT
The argument that there will be an exodus of business from Scotland in the event of a yes vote is absurd. Why would they leave a vibrant economy. Desperate scaremongering. so using common sense and telling voters of possible outcomes is desperate scaremongering (and remember it's the compnaies themselves NOT Westminster that are saying this) but it's absolutely fine to already decide upon and call it a "Vibrant economy" when you don't even have a scoobies what feckin currency will be in place let alone whether or not it'll actually be successful??? cracking logic that Mr. Salmond mate!! brush aside what others outside of westminster say (businesses, member states of the EU, VP of the EU, chairman of the council or europe etc.) as mere propaganda and then fill in your own blanks as fact and what WILL happen despite those who make the decisions saying it won't. what's the temperature like down there in that sand your head's buried in? Hahahah, an attack. I think if you read my post you may see that i am saying that the stream of doom about business leaving Scotland is scaremongering. I accept that, yes, the future of the economy up there is impossible to perfectly predict but i am saying they will not leave with the economy as it is. Some big business may prefer the status quo but they wont cut off their nose and will remain in the marketplace for the sake of their own profits. I don't know what it will be like in the years to come but who's to say that they may decide to tap into the renewable energy resources at their disposal or perhaps have some other means of generating income without the hindrance of Westminster and it's paymasters and actually make a go of it. Why would anybody assume they do not have the ability to generate ideas and follow them through to a successful outcome? As for this issue of currency, i predict that the money men will find some kind of plan for them to keep the pound as it will be in their very own interest to do so. We will all have to wait and see. Oh by the way Mick, i'm not filling in any blanks as "fact". Where did i do this?
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Post by Deleted on Sept 11, 2014 14:18:49 GMT
so using common sense and telling voters of possible outcomes is desperate scaremongering (and remember it's the compnaies themselves NOT Westminster that are saying this) but it's absolutely fine to already decide upon and call it a "Vibrant economy" when you don't even have a scoobies what feckin currency will be in place let alone whether or not it'll actually be successful??? cracking logic that Mr. Salmond mate!! brush aside what others outside of westminster say (businesses, member states of the EU, VP of the EU, chairman of the council or europe etc.) as mere propaganda and then fill in your own blanks as fact and what WILL happen despite those who make the decisions saying it won't. what's the temperature like down there in that sand your head's buried in? Hahahah, an attack. I think if you read my post you may see that i am saying that the stream of doom about business leaving Scotland is scaremongering. I accept that, yes, the future of the economy up there is impossible to perfectly predict but i am saying they will not leave with the economy as it is. Some big business may prefer the status quo but they wont cut off their nose and will remain in the marketplace for the sake of their own profits. I don't know what it will be like in the years to come but who's to say that they may decide to tap into the renewable energy resources at their disposal or perhaps have some other means of generating income without the hindrance of Westminster and it's paymasters and actually make a go of it. Why would anybody assume they do not have the ability to generate ideas and follow them through to a successful outcome? As for this issue of currency, i predict that the money men will find some kind of plan for them to keep the pound as it will be in their very own interest to do so. We will all have to wait and see. Oh by the way Mick, i'm not filling in any blanks as "fact". Where did i do this? first of all i'd say that to call it a "Vibrant economy" is filling in blanks. as you say, no-one knows one way or the other whether it WILL be a vibrant economy but to just use the situation at the moment is ludicrous as at the moment the Scots don't have to directly and without aid fund any education costs, health costs, costs for military, housing etc. etc. etc. as it's all allocated throughout the UK by Westminster. if they suddenly become independent then they'll have to foot the bills for all of these things alone which will have a huge impact on their economy. to ignore those issues is just irresponsible and refusing to acknowledge the truth. i agree that there's nothing to suggest that they're not able to come up with solutions to ensure at least a viable economy in the future and that they may be able to come up with a solution to the currency issue but given how massively important those factors are, don't you think it may well have been an idea to at least have some answers to those concerns before the refendum actually took place? to come into the referendum basically saying "Don't believe Westminster about us not being allowed a joint currency (even though it's them that decide it) and don't believe the EU about us joining up (even though it's them who decide it), everything will just be fine and dandy you'll see....and if not then we can probably come up with something" the vote the scottish people are taking is huge, massive, gargantuan to their future wealth, prosperity and viability as a nation. to get this close to it with the YES campaign still not having answers just isn't good enough. i'm concerned for Scotland in the sense that a lot of people are just believing Salmond because of his accent so think "He's a good Scot like the rest of us so he's trust worthy" despite the fact that he's not!!!! he's not sitting there with no money to pay for food for his kids at the end of the month, he's not going to the job centre to sign on and not being able to find any work anywhere to keep his family in food and clothing...he's no different from any Westminster politician wanting to make a name for himself. if he genuinely wanted to help the Scottish people (rathe than just further his own celebrity status and gurantee a name for himself in the history books) then he'd have firm and robust answers and solutions in place already; as it is i can see the Scottish public voting with their hearts and blindly following a man who as of yet has displayed no real empathy with the day to day plight of the Scottish people to the point where he thinks he doesn't yet even need to know what they will do in terms of their currency a week before the electorate decide whether or not to stay in the UK. it's not as if they can change their mind if they suddenly realise Salmond doesn't know how to solve it, it's too late then and he should..no he HAS TO have those answers and solutions ready NOW so people can feel comfortable that they are doing the right thing. it's no overstatement to say that the very lives of millions of people are in his hands and he simply doesn't have the answers that i personally would need to even consider voting for him if i was in the Scot's position.
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Post by salopstick on Sept 11, 2014 15:08:15 GMT
the irony of the crown
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Post by ukcstokie on Sept 11, 2014 15:08:08 GMT
so using common sense and telling voters of possible outcomes is desperate scaremongering (and remember it's the compnaies themselves NOT Westminster that are saying this) but it's absolutely fine to already decide upon and call it a "Vibrant economy" when you don't even have a scoobies what feckin currency will be in place let alone whether or not it'll actually be successful??? cracking logic that Mr. Salmond mate!! brush aside what others outside of westminster say (businesses, member states of the EU, VP of the EU, chairman of the council or europe etc.) as mere propaganda and then fill in your own blanks as fact and what WILL happen despite those who make the decisions saying it won't. what's the temperature like down there in that sand your head's buried in? Hahahah, an attack. I think if you read my post you may see that i am saying that the stream of doom about business leaving Scotland is scaremongering. I accept that, yes, the future of the economy up there is impossible to perfectly predict but i am saying they will not leave with the economy as it is. Some big business may prefer the status quo but they wont cut off their nose and will remain in the marketplace for the sake of their own profits. I don't know what it will be like in the years to come but who's to say that they may decide to tap into the renewable energy resources at their disposal or perhaps have some other means of generating income without the hindrance of Westminster and it's paymasters and actually make a go of it. Why would anybody assume they do not have the ability to generate ideas and follow them through to a successful outcome? As for this issue of currency, i predict that the money men will find some kind of plan for them to keep the pound as it will be in their very own interest to do so.
We will all have to wait and see. Oh by the way Mick, i'm not filling in any blanks as "fact". Where did i do this? It isn't though is it? It would be political suicide on this side of the border, and madness - having a separate country with no fiscal control - for the Scots (interest rates still set by the Bank of England, budget still has to be agreed with the UK government). It's half baked and a crazy situation. To say they're taking a plunge into the unknown and gambling with the money of millions of people is an understatement.
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Post by kbillyh on Sept 11, 2014 15:17:34 GMT
Hahahah, an attack. I think if you read my post you may see that i am saying that the stream of doom about business leaving Scotland is scaremongering. I accept that, yes, the future of the economy up there is impossible to perfectly predict but i am saying they will not leave with the economy as it is. Some big business may prefer the status quo but they wont cut off their nose and will remain in the marketplace for the sake of their own profits. I don't know what it will be like in the years to come but who's to say that they may decide to tap into the renewable energy resources at their disposal or perhaps have some other means of generating income without the hindrance of Westminster and it's paymasters and actually make a go of it. Why would anybody assume they do not have the ability to generate ideas and follow them through to a successful outcome? As for this issue of currency, i predict that the money men will find some kind of plan for them to keep the pound as it will be in their very own interest to do so. We will all have to wait and see. Oh by the way Mick, i'm not filling in any blanks as "fact". Where did i do this? first of all i'd say that to call it a "Vibrant economy" is filling in blanks. as you say, no-one knows one way or the other whether it WILL be a vibrant economy but to just use the situation at the moment is ludicrous as at the moment the Scots don't have to directly and without aid fund any education costs, health costs, costs for military, housing etc. etc. etc. as it's all allocated throughout the UK by Westminster. if they suddenly become independent then they'll have to foot the bills for all of these things alone which will have a huge impact on their economy. to ignore those issues is just irresponsible and refusing to acknowledge the truth. i agree that there's nothing to suggest that they're not able to come up with solutions to ensure at least a viable economy in the future and that they may be able to come up with a solution to the currency issue but given how massively important those factors are, don't you think it may well have been an idea to at least have some answers to those concerns before the refendum actually took place? to come into the referendum basically saying "Don't believe Westminster about us not being allowed a joint currency (even though it's them that decide it) and don't believe the EU about us joining up (even though it's them who decide it), everything will just be fine and dandy you'll see....and if not then we can probably come up with something" the vote the scottish people are taking is huge, massive, gargantuan to their future wealth, prosperity and viability as a nation. to get this close to it with the YES campaign still not having answers just isn't good enough. i'm concerned for Scotland in the sense that a lot of people are just believing Salmond because of his accent so think "He's a good Scot like the rest of us so he's trust worthy" despite the fact that he's not!!!! he's not sitting there with no money to pay for food for his kids at the end of the month, he's not going to the job centre to sign on and not being able to find any work anywhere to keep his family in food and clothing...he's no different from any Westminster politician wanting to make a name for himself. if he genuinely wanted to help the Scottish people (rathe than just further his own celebrity status and gurantee a name for himself in the history books) then he'd have firm and robust answers and solutions in place already; as it is i can see the Scottish public voting with their hearts and blindly following a man who as of yet has displayed no real empathy with the day to day plight of the Scottish people to the point where he thinks he doesn't yet even need to know what they will do in terms of their currency a week before the electorate decide whether or not to stay in the UK. it's not as if they can change their mind if they suddenly realise Salmond doesn't know how to solve it, it's too late then and he should..no he HAS TO have those answers and solutions ready NOW so people can feel comfortable that they are doing the right thing. it's no overstatement to say that the very lives of millions of people are in his hands and he simply doesn't have the answers that i personally would need to even consider voting for him if i was in the Scot's position. Well, it is a vibrant economy now, it's you who bought up the future element, not me. So no "Facts" said cannot equate to filling in a "blank" Quote: "as at the moment the Scots don't have to directly and without aid fund any education costs, health costs, costs for military, housing etc. etc. etc. as it's all allocated throughout the UK by Westminster." Well would they not have their own tax revenue for these purposes? Again regarding the currency, i have no idea how it will work but i do predict it will be the pound still. You mention Salmond a lot and then imply a vote for yes is a vote for him. This election isn't about him, as much as he wants it to be and as much as our media want it to be it isn't. It's about Scotland and it's break from Westminster and the ruling elites. There are other voices in Scotland and to give another prediction should they vote yes: The SNP will lose their next election. I'm sure you are sincere with your concern regarding the Scots but i believe there is an element in their society that fear for the rest of the UK should they split as it may leave us at the mercy of more future Tory Governments. Bedroom Tax, Food banks, The NHS, Trident, Drug laws, Austerity and bankers bonuses to name but a few. This election to many is about social justice more than nationalism. And that's a FACT.
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Post by kbillyh on Sept 11, 2014 15:27:13 GMT
Quote: It isn't though is it? It would be political suicide on this side of the border, and madness - having a separate country with no fiscal control - for the Scots (interest rates still set by the Bank of England, budget still has to be agreed with the UK government). It's half baked and a crazy situation. To say they're taking a plunge into the unknown and gambling with the money of millions of people is an understatement.
What isn't? I think it will be in the interests of big business to for them to retain the pound and the Westminster elites have policies which are run by the same people. And isn't that how it works with the Euro Countries? i.e Separate Countries, same currency.
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Post by ukcstokie on Sept 11, 2014 15:37:44 GMT
Quote: It isn't though is it? It would be political suicide on this side of the border, and madness - having a separate country with no fiscal control - for the Scots (interest rates still set by the Bank of England, budget still has to be agreed with the UK government). It's half baked and a crazy situation. To say they're taking a plunge into the unknown and gambling with the money of millions of people is an understatement. What isn't? I think it will be in the interests of big business to for them to retain the pound and the Westminster elites have policies which are run by the same people. And isn't that how it works with the Euro Countries? i.e Separate Countries, same currency. I can't see us sharing a currency. The public won't have it - you don't share the bank account after a divorce do you? If your suggestion is correct that policy is totally driven by big business in this area - then we'd be in the Euro now wouldn't we? It works - to an extent - with the Euro - but we would be sharing our currency with a country outside of the EU. Would the Scots take having their exchange rate being set to suit solely the rest of the UK? How would Salmond react when he's told what his budget is from Westminster (and there will be absolutely no subsidising of the Scottish budget as there is currently). It just doesn't work. You'd be a lunatic to go with it. If the Scots want to go then fine. But they go and sort it out on their own and leave the £ with us. (And I'm married to a Scot with 3 half Scottish kids).
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Post by Deleted on Sept 11, 2014 15:48:32 GMT
first of all i'd say that to call it a "Vibrant economy" is filling in blanks. as you say, no-one knows one way or the other whether it WILL be a vibrant economy but to just use the situation at the moment is ludicrous as at the moment the Scots don't have to directly and without aid fund any education costs, health costs, costs for military, housing etc. etc. etc. as it's all allocated throughout the UK by Westminster. if they suddenly become independent then they'll have to foot the bills for all of these things alone which will have a huge impact on their economy. to ignore those issues is just irresponsible and refusing to acknowledge the truth. i agree that there's nothing to suggest that they're not able to come up with solutions to ensure at least a viable economy in the future and that they may be able to come up with a solution to the currency issue but given how massively important those factors are, don't you think it may well have been an idea to at least have some answers to those concerns before the refendum actually took place? to come into the referendum basically saying "Don't believe Westminster about us not being allowed a joint currency (even though it's them that decide it) and don't believe the EU about us joining up (even though it's them who decide it), everything will just be fine and dandy you'll see....and if not then we can probably come up with something" the vote the scottish people are taking is huge, massive, gargantuan to their future wealth, prosperity and viability as a nation. to get this close to it with the YES campaign still not having answers just isn't good enough. i'm concerned for Scotland in the sense that a lot of people are just believing Salmond because of his accent so think "He's a good Scot like the rest of us so he's trust worthy" despite the fact that he's not!!!! he's not sitting there with no money to pay for food for his kids at the end of the month, he's not going to the job centre to sign on and not being able to find any work anywhere to keep his family in food and clothing...he's no different from any Westminster politician wanting to make a name for himself. if he genuinely wanted to help the Scottish people (rathe than just further his own celebrity status and gurantee a name for himself in the history books) then he'd have firm and robust answers and solutions in place already; as it is i can see the Scottish public voting with their hearts and blindly following a man who as of yet has displayed no real empathy with the day to day plight of the Scottish people to the point where he thinks he doesn't yet even need to know what they will do in terms of their currency a week before the electorate decide whether or not to stay in the UK. it's not as if they can change their mind if they suddenly realise Salmond doesn't know how to solve it, it's too late then and he should..no he HAS TO have those answers and solutions ready NOW so people can feel comfortable that they are doing the right thing. it's no overstatement to say that the very lives of millions of people are in his hands and he simply doesn't have the answers that i personally would need to even consider voting for him if i was in the Scot's position. Well, it is a vibrant economy now, it's you who bought up the future element, not me. So no "Facts" said cannot equate to filling in a "blank" Quote: "as at the moment the Scots don't have to directly and without aid fund any education costs, health costs, costs for military, housing etc. etc. etc. as it's all allocated throughout the UK by Westminster." Well would they not have their own tax revenue for these purposes? Again regarding the currency, i have no idea how it will work but i do predict it will be the pound still. You mention Salmond a lot and then imply a vote for yes is a vote for him. This election isn't about him, as much as he wants it to be and as much as our media want it to be it isn't. It's about Scotland and it's break from Westminster and the ruling elites. There are other voices in Scotland and to give another prediction should they vote yes: The SNP will lose their next election. I'm sure you are sincere with your concern regarding the Scots but i believe there is an element in their society that fear for the rest of the UK should they split as it may leave us at the mercy of more future Tory Governments. Bedroom Tax, Food banks, The NHS, Trident, Drug laws, Austerity and bankers bonuses to name but a few. This election to many is about social justice more than nationalism. And that's a FACT. yes scotland DO pay tax for expenses in those areas but.....so do the WHOLE of the UK which contributes to those services being provided in Scotland AND the rest of the UK.....currently we are ALL paying tax to aid the WHOLE of the UK. it's not a case of the Scot's taxes just go to Scot's expenses and the NHS in England is subbed purely by taxes paid by the population in England. we are a UNION at present and the amount that Scots pay in tax won't alone cover all of those things (you have to remember the relatively small population of Scotland compared to England for example) but when they are independent it will have to. that will take a large chunk out of whatever budget they have in this "vibrant economy" and, again, they have failed to even acknowledge this let alone come up with a solution as to how to make up this shortfall. the reason why i (and many others) bring Salmond into the debate so often is because it is largely him and his party that are coming up with policies...or not as the case may be...for what will happen if they do win the referendum. the pound isn't going to work for them as many many economic experts (independent ones at that) have said; they have been told they cannot share our economy so if they want to keep the pound then sterlingisation is the only other option. do you genuinely think that the Scots will vote to leave the UK because they don't want to be governed by Westminster then happily accept sterlingisation which basically means that interest rates, investments, exchange rates and the foundation of their economy is still something that is dictated to them by the Bank of England???? it's kind of the direct opposite of the point of them voting "YES" in the first place! they also won't be able to remain a part of the EU as EU law clearly states (which the EU have openly told the Scots but, again they're just deciding to ignore it and bury their heads in the sand and hope it will all go away...i'm not listening lalalalala) that to become a member state you first have to have your OWN central bank which they won't have. i'm not (and never have been) against the idea of an independent Scotland; i, like probably about 90% of the English people around, don't really give a shit one way or the other. i know the Scots like to say we'll feel it as much as they do if we split but that's a view that no independent economist has even come close to backing up. there will be changes yes but in reality it isn't really going to effect us much at all (despite there being just as much "Scaremongering" and "propaganda" coming from the Scots to try to make us believe we'll really suffer....don't even know why they come up with that anyway, it's pointless goading on their part as we have no say in it and all that would achieve would be for us to beg them to stay which is, again, the opposite of what they apparently want). if the Scot's want to vote YES then crack on, fair play and i hope it works out (genuinely). my concern is simply down to the fact that it's a HUGE gamble that the future of their entire nation depends upon and if i was being asked to vote then i would want cast iron guarantees, answers and solutions to these questions and issues waaaaaay before i actually went ahead and put a cross in anyone's box. as i said earlier, to get this close to the referendum and them simply just not know and not having to be able to guarantee to their population is a disgrace, irresponsible and disrespectful to the people they're apparently trying to help but in reality can only say that they might be able to help...possibly...maybe...if they can find someone who can come up with the answers for them. basically they're doing it backwards......deciding whether to remain in the UK and then think about how it will actually work/if it can actually work logisitically, economically and practically after that decision has been made. if it turns out by then that the parties there are to choose from to lead the country don't have those answers or if they do then they just won't work or lead to any kind of better Scotland then it's too late by then, they're out of the UK and will have to fend for themselves regardless.it's like entering a horse you've never seen for the Grand National then realising when he lines up for the star that he's only got 3 legs......a certain amount of homework HAS to be put in in the first place before taking such a monumental decision and the YES campaign just haven't, they've just ignored and fudged issues when something complicated has come up hoping everyone will just take the Braveheart spirit to their hearts and just run with that. i've used the word before and will again, irresponsible!!!! if it works out then it'll be far more by luck than judgment!
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Post by kbillyh on Sept 11, 2014 15:51:20 GMT
Quote: It isn't though is it? It would be political suicide on this side of the border, and madness - having a separate country with no fiscal control - for the Scots (interest rates still set by the Bank of England, budget still has to be agreed with the UK government). It's half baked and a crazy situation. To say they're taking a plunge into the unknown and gambling with the money of millions of people is an understatement. What isn't? I think it will be in the interests of big business to for them to retain the pound and the Westminster elites have policies which are run by the same people. And isn't that how it works with the Euro Countries? i.e Separate Countries, same currency. I can't see us sharing a currency. The public won't have it - you don't share the bank account after a divorce do you? If your suggestion is correct that policy is totally driven by big business in this area - then we'd be in the Euro now wouldn't we? It works - to an extent - with the Euro - but we would be sharing our currency with a country outside of the EU. Would the Scots take having their exchange rate being set to suit solely the rest of the UK? How would Salmond react when he's told what his budget is from Westminster (and there will be absolutely no subsidising of the Scottish budget as there is currently). It just doesn't work. You'd be a lunatic to go with it. If the Scots want to go then fine. But they go and sort it out on their own and leave the £ with us. (And I'm married to a Scot with 3 half Scottish kids). The public will have it if it is to the benefit of us all. It may well be, i don't know and neither do you.The public certainly wouldn't go for the Euro though, no matter how much big business wanted it. "Would the Scots take having their exchange rate being set to suit solely the rest of the UK?" Yes, just like the separate countries in the Euro i'd guess. "How would Salmond react when he's told what his budget is from Westminster (and there will be absolutely no subsidising of the Scottish budget as there is currently)." Again you talk of Slamonds reaction, it's not about him, but as i said, they would be in control of their own tax revenues to budget as they wished. As far as you being married to a Scot with 3 kids, well good for you but it holds no sway whatsoever for arguments sake, why mention that as if it has any relevance to your points?
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Post by kbillyh on Sept 11, 2014 16:00:56 GMT
Well, it is a vibrant economy now, it's you who bought up the future element, not me. So no "Facts" said cannot equate to filling in a "blank" Quote: "as at the moment the Scots don't have to directly and without aid fund any education costs, health costs, costs for military, housing etc. etc. etc. as it's all allocated throughout the UK by Westminster." Well would they not have their own tax revenue for these purposes? Again regarding the currency, i have no idea how it will work but i do predict it will be the pound still. You mention Salmond a lot and then imply a vote for yes is a vote for him. This election isn't about him, as much as he wants it to be and as much as our media want it to be it isn't. It's about Scotland and it's break from Westminster and the ruling elites. There are other voices in Scotland and to give another prediction should they vote yes: The SNP will lose their next election. I'm sure you are sincere with your concern regarding the Scots but i believe there is an element in their society that fear for the rest of the UK should they split as it may leave us at the mercy of more future Tory Governments. Bedroom Tax, Food banks, The NHS, Trident, Drug laws, Austerity and bankers bonuses to name but a few. This election to many is about social justice more than nationalism. And that's a FACT. yes scotland DO pay tax for expenses in those areas but.....so do the WHOLE of the UK which contributes to those services being provided in Scotland AND the rest of the UK.....currently we are ALL paying tax to aid the WHOLE of the UK. it's not a case of the Scot's taxes just go to Scot's expenses and the NHS in England is subbed purely by taxes paid by the population in England. we are a UNION at present and the amount that Scots pay in tax won't alone cover all of those things (you have to remember the relatively small population of Scotland compared to England for example) but when they are independent it will have to. that will take a large chunk out of whatever budget they have in this "vibrant economy" and, again, they have failed to even acknowledge this let alone come up with a solution as to how to make up this shortfall. the reason why i (and many others) bring Salmond into the debate so often is because it is largely him and his party that are coming up with policies...or not as the case may be...for what will happen if they do win the referendum. the pound isn't going to work for them as many many economic experts (independent ones at that) have said; they have been told they cannot share our economy so if they want to keep the pound then sterlingisation is the only other option. do you genuinely think that the Scots will vote to leave the UK because they don't want to be governed by Westminster then happily accept sterlingisation which basically means that interest rates, investments, exchange rates and the foundation of their economy is still something that is dictated to them by the Bank of England???? it's kind of the direct opposite of the point of them voting "YES" in the first place! they also won't be able to remain a part of the EU as EU law clearly states (which the EU have openly told the Scots but, again they're just deciding to ignore it and bury their heads in the sand and hope it will all go away...i'm not listening lalalalala) that to become a member state you first have to have your OWN central bank which they won't have. i'm not (and never have been) against the idea of an independent Scotland; i, like probably about 90% of the English people around, don't really give a shit one way or the other. i know the Scots like to say we'll feel it as much as they do if we split but that's a view that no independent economist has even come close to backing up. there will be changes yes but in reality it isn't really going to effect us much at all (despite there being just as much "Scaremongering" and "propaganda" coming from the Scots to try to make us believe we'll really suffer....don't even know why they come up with that anyway, it's pointless goading on their part as we have no say in it and all that would achieve would be for us to beg them to stay which is, again, the opposite of what they apparently want). if the Scot's want to vote YES then crack on, fair play and i hope it works out (genuinely). my concern is simply down to the fact that it's a HUGE gamble that the future of their entire nation depends upon and if i was being asked to vote then i would want cast iron guarantees, answers and solutions to these questions and issues waaaaaay before i actually went ahead and put a cross in anyone's box. as i said earlier, to get this close to the referendum and them simply just not know and not having to be able to guarantee to their population is a disgrace, irresponsible and disrespectful to the people they're apparently trying to help but in reality can only say that they might be able to help...possibly...maybe...if they can find someone who can come up with the answers for them. basically they're doing it backwards......deciding whether to remain in the UK and then think about how it will actually work/if it can actually work logisitically, economically and practically after that decision has been made. if it turns out by then that the parties there are to choose from to lead the country don't have those answers or if they do then they just won't work or lead to any kind of better Scotland then it's too late by then, they're out of the UK and will have to fend for themselves regardless.it's like entering a horse you've never seen for the Grand National then realising when he lines up for the star that he's only got 3 legs......a certain amount of homework HAS to be put in in the first place before taking such a monumental decision and the YES campaign just haven't, they've just ignored and fudged issues when something complicated has come up hoping everyone will just take the Braveheart spirit to their hearts and just run with that. i've used the word before and will again, irresponsible!!!! if it works out then it'll be far more by luck than judgment! Fair enough mate, that's your view. To me though as i said before, it's more about social justice than Braveheart. They can actually refuse to fight in illegal wars. Imagine that.
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