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Post by ukcstokie on Jul 2, 2014 14:24:04 GMT
5 million muslims in france and around a minimum of 350 - a maximum of 2,000 actually wear the full head veil (the french police did an investigation that yielded a number so low they did the investigation again and came up with the 2,000 number). There 's 1.5 million muslims in England, so if the trend is the same i would guess as few as a few hundred wear burkas, why is this even an issue ?. Is it really worth enacting a law for a supposed "problem" that is so miniscule ?. So that would be between 100 and 600 wearing the veil in this country Roughly 1 in every 100,000 people (based on the higher end). From my personal experience it's way way higher than that. Only 80 veil wearers in London? Never.
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Post by serpico on Jul 2, 2014 14:43:27 GMT
5 million muslims in france and around a minimum of 350 - a maximum of 2,000 actually wear the full head veil (the french police did an investigation that yielded a number so low they did the investigation again and came up with the 2,000 number). There 's 1.5 million muslims in England, so if the trend is the same i would guess as few as a few hundred wear burkas, why is this even an issue ?. Is it really worth enacting a law for a supposed "problem" that is so miniscule ?. So that would be between 100 and 600 wearing the veil in this country Roughly 1 in every 100,000 people (based on the higher end). From my personal experience it's way way higher than that. Only 80 veil wearers in London? Never. That's purely anecdotal though, if the trend is the same in Britain as other parts of Europe, and there's every reason to believe so, then this so called problem isn't worth the huge debate that flares up every now and then. This would just be another in a long line of victimless crimes added to the laws, you want to give the state the power to ban pieces of clothing for the sake of a "problem" that barely even exists ? you'll just set the precedent for the state to dictate what people wear. It makes me very uncomfortable when I see someone wearing a che gervara t-shirt due to the fact he was a mass murderer and rapist, and these t-shirts are far more popular that Burqas, but i wouldn't want them banned.
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Post by ukcstokie on Jul 2, 2014 15:03:19 GMT
So that would be between 100 and 600 wearing the veil in this country Roughly 1 in every 100,000 people (based on the higher end). From my personal experience it's way way higher than that. Only 80 veil wearers in London? Never. That's purely anecdotal though, if the trend is the same in Britain as other parts of Europe, and there's every reason to believe so, then this so called problem isn't worth the huge debate that flares up every now and then. This would just be another in a long line of victimless crimes added to the laws, you want to give the state the power to ban pieces of clothing for the sake of a "problem" that barely even exists ? you'll just set the precedent for the state to dictate what people wear. It makes me very uncomfortable when I see someone wearing a che gervara t-shirt due to the fact he was a mass murderer and rapist, and these t-shirts are far more popular that Burqas, but i wouldn't want them banned. ....but rarely are women forced to wear Che Gervara t'shirts against their will. Or are they used so that women can be treated as a sub species. Or do Che gervara T'shirts stop you interacting with somebody like a fully functioning human being. As indicated above - you wildly underplay the problem.
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Post by serpico on Jul 2, 2014 15:13:13 GMT
That's purely anecdotal though, if the trend is the same in Britain as other parts of Europe, and there's every reason to believe so, then this so called problem isn't worth the huge debate that flares up every now and then. This would just be another in a long line of victimless crimes added to the laws, you want to give the state the power to ban pieces of clothing for the sake of a "problem" that barely even exists ? you'll just set the precedent for the state to dictate what people wear. It makes me very uncomfortable when I see someone wearing a che gervara t-shirt due to the fact he was a mass murderer and rapist, and these t-shirts are far more popular that Burqas, but i wouldn't want them banned. ....but rarely are women forced to wear Che Gervara t'shirts against their will. Or are they used so that women can be treated as a sub species. Or do Che gervara T'shirts stop you interacting with somebody like a fully functioning human being. As indicated above - you wildly underplay the problem. I never said anything about the issue of being forced into wearing anything, this is a blanket ban (no pun intended ) on burqas full stop, not a ban on people being forced to wear them. If someone is being forced to do something they don't want to do there are already laws in place, and ways to stop it, this isn't what this debate is about. I would suggest this is just another way to possibly bring in revenue through fines, but the problem is so small it probably wouldn't be worth it, so there's something else at play here.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 2, 2014 15:22:30 GMT
5 million muslims in france and around a minimum of 350 - a maximum of 2,000 actually wear the full head veil (the french police did an investigation that yielded a number so low they did the investigation again and came up with the 2,000 number). There 's 1.5 million muslims in England, so if the trend is the same i would guess as few as a few hundred wear burkas, why is this even an issue ?. Is it really worth enacting a law for a supposed "problem" that is so miniscule ?. So that would be between 100 and 600 wearing the veil in this country Roughly 1 in every 100,000 people (based on the higher end). From my personal experience it's way way higher than that. Only 80 veil wearers in London? Never. there probably are way more than 80 veils in London as it's officially the most ethnically diverse place in England....but then again there's probably 0 in places like Chalfont St. Giles, Easington, Edgmond, Church Stretton etc.....that's why it's an average they work out
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Post by salopstick on Jul 2, 2014 15:28:49 GMT
there is nothing in church stretton mick
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Post by Deleted on Jul 2, 2014 15:30:27 GMT
there is nothing in church stretton mick there's a little mini market that was selling 20 cans of stella the other week for £12...that's all there needs to be
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Post by ukcstokie on Jul 2, 2014 15:57:39 GMT
So that would be between 100 and 600 wearing the veil in this country Roughly 1 in every 100,000 people (based on the higher end). From my personal experience it's way way higher than that. Only 80 veil wearers in London? Never. there probably are way more than 80 veils in London as it's officially the most ethnically diverse place in England....but then again there's probably 0 in places like Chalfont St. Giles, Easington, Edgmond, Church Stretton etc.....that's why it's an average they work out I see your point MML - but based on my experience - there are far far more than 1 in 100,000 veil wearers in Britain. Far more
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Post by Deleted on Jul 2, 2014 16:04:02 GMT
there probably are way more than 80 veils in London as it's officially the most ethnically diverse place in England....but then again there's probably 0 in places like Chalfont St. Giles, Easington, Edgmond, Church Stretton etc.....that's why it's an average they work out I see your point MML - but based on my experience - there are far far more than 1 in 100,000 veil wearers in Britain. Far more and in my experience (living in a small town in shropshire) i'd say that it's an over estimation!!! that's the thing really, there is life outside of London and many many places that have no ethnic diversity whatsoever. in the big cities then of course there are far more but in middle england and many places outside of the big cities there really is very very little diversity in my personal experience.
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Post by Staffsoatcake on Jul 2, 2014 16:13:41 GMT
I wish that Scouse cow Cilla Black would fucking wear one.
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Post by britsabroad on Jul 3, 2014 1:16:51 GMT
5 million muslims in france and around a minimum of 350 - a maximum of 2,000 actually wear the full head veil (the french police did an investigation that yielded a number so low they did the investigation again and came up with the 2,000 number). There 's 1.5 million muslims in England, so if the trend is the same i would guess as few as a few hundred wear burkas, why is this even an issue ?. Is it really worth enacting a law for a supposed "problem" that is so miniscule ?. Its not an issue because of how many wear them. Its an issue because the unscrupulous have been caught using them to escape the law.
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Post by RichieBarkerOut! on Jul 3, 2014 6:31:20 GMT
Banning the veil is an important step in the fight against religion and misogyny.
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raven
Academy Starlet
Posts: 118
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Post by raven on Jul 21, 2014 13:36:07 GMT
There is no requirement in the Koran for burquas to be worn, merely that women should dress modestly
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Post by starkiller on Jul 21, 2014 23:36:35 GMT
Banning the veil is an important step in the fight against religion and misogyny. What if they choose to wear it? It's about removing any face coverings for facial recognition technology. You cannot even legally protest in this country anymore with some fascist pig shoving a camera in your face. I'm more concerned about that. Wait until there are powers to make people remove sunglasses. Let's ban banning things.
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Post by harryburrows on Jul 21, 2014 23:43:21 GMT
Banning the veil is an important step in the fight against religion and misogyny. tell me about this fight against religion
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Post by Deleted on Jul 22, 2014 0:23:41 GMT
Its about Integration. What integration you may ask?. They want the freedom and wealth/better lifestyle that the West provides but prefer to hide behind the medieval practises indoctrinated by those they have to follow. As for this contribution from you ''You cannot even legally protest in this country anymore with some fascist pig shoving a camera in your face. I'm more concerned about that.'' Read more: oatcakefanzine.proboards.com/thread/232129/full-veil-ban?page=2#ixzz389Mf9XMWStarkiller .....What fucking planet are you on >? I have never had any ''Facist Pig'' shove any camera in my face in my time on this planet and as for protesting or the inability to be allowed that is just beyond the realms of fantasy. You live in Cloud Cuckoo land. Do you think that in country's like Pakistan citizens can protest with more freedom than they can here ....? I can tell you here and now that they can't. You are THE most racially motivated lunatic that I have ever come across. You incessantly tell us that we can't trust the BBC and other media sources because of their inability to tell us the truth . Your comments range from being bizarre to downright dangerous and insane. I'd like to think that at times you are just joking (I know I do ..a lot) but no ...You are serious every time. Your argument is always the same ....The West is bad ...The East is good. We the people of the UK need to stop being brainwashed by our evil government and adopt the practises of those immigrants we have allowed entry to. Well , that's all fine and dandy until large parts of our inner cities are lost to non white foreign nationals . It suddenly becomes dominated by other cultures and other religions and makes the task of integration even harder , if not impossible. The early warning signs are there already for all to see. From investigations into Muslim run schools to the volunteer fighters going over to Syria to fight. These are young men and women who have never felt integrated into British life and have been systematically groomed by the more extreme fanatics both here and abroad. You may think that all this is good and it is their right to do so , but there are still those of us who don't and are not frightened enough to say it. Infact , I applaud this governments efforts to bring these people to justice should they ever return to this country and contain the cancer within. I consider your obscure opinions and rantings to be a typical example of this cancer and someone who would make an ideal candidate for grooming given your track record and frequent rantings. There is never any 'middle ground' with you. You have this ideology of conspiracy and the west is evil at every twist and turn along with the media coverage of world events. Your are extremely racially motivated. The problem is , from the shooting down of the plane in Russia , to the fighting in Syria , to the wearing of the full veil , your opinions to the vast majority of people on here are simply regarded as the thoughts of a loose cannon. A free radical with no real answers..no real solutions...no real purpose or cohesive considered response. Just take the time to read again what you have just written and then tell me you actually really believe what you are saying. mumf
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Post by Deleted on Jul 22, 2014 0:36:35 GMT
Banning the veil is an important step in the fight against religion and misogyny. What if they choose to wear it? It's about removing any face coverings for facial recognition technology. You cannot even legally protest in this country anymore with some fascist pig shoving a camera in your face. I'm more concerned about that. Wait until there are powers to make people remove sunglasses. Let's ban banning things. For Gods sake get real man ....
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Post by Deleted on Jul 22, 2014 0:39:38 GMT
Its about Integration. What integration you may ask?. They want the freedom and wealth/better lifestyle that the West provides but prefer to hide behind the medieval practises indoctrinated by those they have to follow. As for this contribution from you ''You cannot even legally protest in this country anymore with some fascist pig shoving a camera in your face. I'm more concerned about that.'' Read more: oatcakefanzine.proboards.com/thread/232129/full-veil-ban?page=2#ixzz389Mf9XMWStarkiller .....What fucking planet are you on >? I have never had any ''Facist Pig'' shove any camera in my face in my time on this planet and as for protesting or the inability to be allowed that is just beyond the realms of fantasy. You live in Cloud Cuckoo land. Do you think that in country's like Pakistan citizens can protest with more freedom than they can here ....? I can tell you here and now that they can't. You are THE most racially motivated lunatic that I have ever come across. You incessantly tell us that we can't trust the BBC and other media sources because of their inability to tell us the truth . Your comments range from being bizarre to downright dangerous and insane. I'd like to think that at times you are just joking (I know I do ..a lot) but no ...You are serious every time. Your argument is always the same ....The West is bad ...The East is good. We the people of the UK need to stop being brainwashed by our evil government and adopt the practises of those immigrants we have allowed entry to. Well , that's all fine and dandy until large parts of our inner cities are lost to non white foreign nationals . It suddenly becomes dominated by other cultures and other religions and makes the task of integration even harder , if not impossible. The early warning signs are there already for all to see. From investigations into Muslim run schools to the volunteer fighters going over to Syria to fight. These are young men and women who have never felt integrated into British life and have been systematically groomed by the more extreme fanatics both here and abroad. You may think that all this is good and it is their right to do so , but there are still those of us who don't and are not frightened enough to say it. Infact , I applaud this governments efforts to bring these people to justice should they ever return to this country and contain the cancer within. I consider your obscure opinions and rantings to be a typical example of this cancer and someone who would make an ideal candidate for grooming given your track record and frequent rantings. There is never any 'middle ground' with you. You have this ideology of conspiracy and the west is evil at every twist and turn along with the media coverage of world events. Your are extremely racially motivated. The problem is , from the shooting down of the plane in Russia , to the fighting in Syria , to the wearing of the full veil , your opinions to the vast majority of people on here are simply regarded as the thoughts of a loose cannon. A free radical with no real answers..no real solutions...no real purpose or cohesive considered response. Just take the time to read again what you have just written and then tell me you actually really believe what you are saying. mumf
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Post by Deleted on Jul 22, 2014 4:43:00 GMT
So that would be between 100 and 600 wearing the veil in this country Roughly 1 in every 100,000 people (based on the higher end). From my personal experience it's way way higher than that. Only 80 veil wearers in London? Never. That's purely anecdotal though, if the trend is the same in Britain as other parts of Europe, and there's every reason to believe so, then this so called problem isn't worth the huge debate that flares up every now and then. This would just be another in a long line of victimless crimes added to the laws, you want to give the state the power to ban pieces of clothing for the sake of a "problem" that barely even exists ? you'll just set the precedent for the state to dictate what people wear. It makes me very uncomfortable when I see someone wearing a che gervara t-shirt due to the fact he was a mass murderer and rapist, and these t-shirts are far more popular that Burqas, but i wouldn't want them banned. Exactly. And if Jesus ever came back do you think he'd be pleased to see all his followers wearing the cross as his symbol? I suspect not. Well, not after he got nailed to one.
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Post by starkiller on Jul 22, 2014 6:42:52 GMT
Its about Integration. What integration you may ask?. They want the freedom and wealth/better lifestyle that the West provides but prefer to hide behind the medieval practises indoctrinated by those they have to follow. As for this contribution from you ''You cannot even legally protest in this country anymore with some fascist pig shoving a camera in your face. I'm more concerned about that.'' Read more: oatcakefanzine.proboards.com/thread/232129/full-veil-ban?page=2#ixzz389Mf9XMWStarkiller .....What fucking planet are you on >? I have never had any ''Facist Pig'' shove any camera in my face in my time on this planet and as for protesting or the inability to be allowed that is just beyond the realms of fantasy. You live in Cloud Cuckoo land. Do you think that in country's like Pakistan citizens can protest with more freedom than they can here ....? I can tell you here and now that they can't. You are THE most racially motivated lunatic that I have ever come across. You incessantly tell us that we can't trust the BBC and other media sources because of their inability to tell us the truth . Your comments range from being bizarre to downright dangerous and insane. I'd like to think that at times you are just joking (I know I do ..a lot) but no ...You are serious every time. Your argument is always the same ....The West is bad ...The East is good. We the people of the UK need to stop being brainwashed by our evil government and adopt the practises of those immigrants we have allowed entry to. Well , that's all fine and dandy until large parts of our inner cities are lost to non white foreign nationals . It suddenly becomes dominated by other cultures and other religions and makes the task of integration even harder , if not impossible. The early warning signs are there already for all to see. From investigations into Muslim run schools to the volunteer fighters going over to Syria to fight. These are young men and women who have never felt integrated into British life and have been systematically groomed by the more extreme fanatics both here and abroad. You may think that all this is good and it is their right to do so , but there are still those of us who don't and are not frightened enough to say it. Infact , I applaud this governments efforts to bring these people to justice should they ever return to this country and contain the cancer within. I consider your obscure opinions and rantings to be a typical example of this cancer and someone who would make an ideal candidate for grooming given your track record and frequent rantings. There is never any 'middle ground' with you. You have this ideology of conspiracy and the west is evil at every twist and turn along with the media coverage of world events. Your are extremely racially motivated. The problem is , from the shooting down of the plane in Russia , to the fighting in Syria , to the wearing of the full veil , your opinions to the vast majority of people on here are simply regarded as the thoughts of a loose cannon. A free radical with no real answers..no real solutions...no real purpose or cohesive considered response. Just take the time to read again what you have just written and then tell me you actually really believe what you are saying. mumf You're the one that deals in absolutes.
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Post by RichieBarkerOut! on Jul 22, 2014 6:50:10 GMT
Banning the veil is an important step in the fight against religion and misogyny. tell me about this fight against religion It's called education. It's the enemy of religion because it causes people to challenge the world around them. If the Catholics had their way, the Sun would go around the Earth and plants would grow because of God's will and eating soil. Go back 500 years and you could be put to death for challenging the dogma of the day. Let's hope that the misogynists that promote female genital mutilation in the name of religion have their days numbered too.
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Post by thevoid on Jul 22, 2014 10:23:27 GMT
Its about Integration. What integration you may ask?. They want the freedom and wealth/better lifestyle that the West provides but prefer to hide behind the medieval practises indoctrinated by those they have to follow. As for this contribution from you ''You cannot even legally protest in this country anymore with some fascist pig shoving a camera in your face. I'm more concerned about that.'' Read more: oatcakefanzine.proboards.com/thread/232129/full-veil-ban?page=2#ixzz389Mf9XMWStarkiller .....What fucking planet are you on >? I have never had any ''Facist Pig'' shove any camera in my face in my time on this planet and as for protesting or the inability to be allowed that is just beyond the realms of fantasy. You live in Cloud Cuckoo land. Do you think that in country's like Pakistan citizens can protest with more freedom than they can here ....? I can tell you here and now that they can't. You are THE most racially motivated lunatic that I have ever come across. You incessantly tell us that we can't trust the BBC and other media sources because of their inability to tell us the truth . Your comments range from being bizarre to downright dangerous and insane. I'd like to think that at times you are just joking (I know I do ..a lot) but no ...You are serious every time. Your argument is always the same ....The West is bad ...The East is good. We the people of the UK need to stop being brainwashed by our evil government and adopt the practises of those immigrants we have allowed entry to. Well , that's all fine and dandy until large parts of our inner cities are lost to non white foreign nationals . It suddenly becomes dominated by other cultures and other religions and makes the task of integration even harder , if not impossible. The early warning signs are there already for all to see. From investigations into Muslim run schools to the volunteer fighters going over to Syria to fight. These are young men and women who have never felt integrated into British life and have been systematically groomed by the more extreme fanatics both here and abroad. You may think that all this is good and it is their right to do so , but there are still those of us who don't and are not frightened enough to say it. Infact , I applaud this governments efforts to bring these people to justice should they ever return to this country and contain the cancer within. I consider your obscure opinions and rantings to be a typical example of this cancer and someone who would make an ideal candidate for grooming given your track record and frequent rantings. There is never any 'middle ground' with you. You have this ideology of conspiracy and the west is evil at every twist and turn along with the media coverage of world events. Your are extremely racially motivated. The problem is , from the shooting down of the plane in Russia , to the fighting in Syria , to the wearing of the full veil , your opinions to the vast majority of people on here are simply regarded as the thoughts of a loose cannon. A free radical with no real answers..no real solutions...no real purpose or cohesive considered response. Just take the time to read again what you have just written and then tell me you actually really believe what you are saying. mumf The left-wing are as brainwashed as the Muslim fascists they repeatedly champion, and are a serious threat to this country. There's a dangerous strand of anti-semitism that runs through left-wing ideology (mainly down to their connections to banking and capitalism and having to defend their borders against hostile neighbours), how ironic for so-called 'anti-fascists'. Adolf would be proud.
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Post by elsidibe on Jul 22, 2014 12:15:42 GMT
The left-wing are as brainwashed as the Muslim fascists they repeatedly champion, and are a serious threat to this country. There's a dangerous strand of anti-semitism that runs through left-wing ideology (mainly down to their connections to banking and capitalism and having to defend their borders against hostile neighbours), how ironic for so-called 'anti-fascists'. Adolf would be proud. Whilst I'd agree that there's an undercurrent of anti-semitism among certain sections of Israel's critics, we shouldn't discount any criticism of Zionism or current Israeli policy as being anti-semitic. Criticisng specific Israeli actions per se is no more anti-semitic than criticising certain actions in Saudi Arabia is anti-Islamic. The propensity to shout down all critics of Israel as being anti-semitic is a very dangerous strand of thinking too.
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Post by ihaveadream on Jul 22, 2014 12:58:45 GMT
Hoodies should also be banned
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Post by britsabroad on Jul 22, 2014 14:34:53 GMT
Hoodies should also be banned I thought they were in some places now?
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Post by ihaveadream on Jul 22, 2014 15:22:11 GMT
I think you may be right Britsabroad
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Post by harryburrows on Jul 22, 2014 17:36:58 GMT
tell me about this fight against religion It's called education. It's the enemy of religion because it causes people to challenge the world around them. If the Catholics had their way, the Sun would go around the Earth and plants would grow because of God's will and eating soil. Go back 500 years and you could be put to death for challenging the dogma of the day. Let's hope that the misogynists that promote female genital mutilation in the name of religion have their days numbered too. im a catholic
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Post by RichieBarkerOut! on Jul 22, 2014 20:01:25 GMT
It's called education. It's the enemy of religion because it causes people to challenge the world around them. If the Catholics had their way, the Sun would go around the Earth and plants would grow because of God's will and eating soil. Go back 500 years and you could be put to death for challenging the dogma of the day. Let's hope that the misogynists that promote female genital mutilation in the name of religion have their days numbered too. im a catholic You have my deepest sympathy.
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Post by harryburrows on Jul 22, 2014 20:19:41 GMT
im a catholic You have my deepest sympathy. i lapsed 45 years ago though
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Post by thevoid on Jul 23, 2014 10:04:05 GMT
The left-wing are as brainwashed as the Muslim fascists they repeatedly champion, and are a serious threat to this country. There's a dangerous strand of anti-semitism that runs through left-wing ideology (mainly down to their connections to banking and capitalism and having to defend their borders against hostile neighbours), how ironic for so-called 'anti-fascists'. Adolf would be proud. Whilst I'd agree that there's an undercurrent of anti-semitism among certain sections of Israel's critics, we shouldn't discount any criticism of Zionism or current Israeli policy as being anti-semitic. Criticisng specific Israeli actions per se is no more anti-semitic than criticising certain actions in Saudi Arabia is anti-Islamic. The propensity to shout down all critics of Israel as being anti-semitic is a very dangerous strand of thinking too. And similarly, we shouldn't discount all criticism of immigration as racism. For most people, it's a matter of logistics.
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