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Post by Deleted on May 15, 2014 12:25:50 GMT
are we as a club going to suffer because hodgson cant see past his nose? allready players[and more importantly agents!]have seen the glaring omission of ryan shawcross from the england 30, they will also have noticed that peter crouch was an england regular when sitting on the spurs bench yet when he moves to stoke he doesnt get a look in.
i am worried that this will put players off moving to stoke? we allready have the nzonzi story[hopefully bullshit]
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Post by Deleted on May 15, 2014 12:27:22 GMT
I'd like to think they'd come to Stoke to play for Stoke, more than anything.
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Post by lowlands on May 15, 2014 12:39:53 GMT
Just like, Jimmy Greenhoff and John Ritchie, never played for England, probably the best players to never play for England. Strangely enough Mike Pejic did once he left Stoke and went to Everton, history repeating itself. England will never win anything until a manager with balls is allowed to manage the team, but that wont happen whilst the idiots who run the FA are in charge. We have missed out on great managers, Clough, sacking Venables after a brilliant Euro 96 campaign, sacking Hoddle because he said something stupid, (who doesn't)and Redknapp a great man manager. Pro footballers don't need coaching they need a man manager who will believe in them and get the best out of them, and Redknapp was that man
Same story different era. Ryan Shawcross should without doubt be in the 23. Captained his team for a number of seasons in The Premier League, and 2 appearances in Wembley and during the European competition, but still doesn't make the grade above Smalling, shocking, Hodgson twat, another Yes Man. Shame because Hodgson is intelligent but driven by the press which makes it all the worse as he is intelligent
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Post by JoeinOz on May 15, 2014 12:47:08 GMT
Pejic played for England while at Stoke.
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Post by stokiet90 on May 15, 2014 12:49:09 GMT
Hodgson is just another manager who aims to keep the f.a and the media happy! Its a joke.
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Post by scfcno1fan on May 15, 2014 12:53:10 GMT
Its a good point.
If I was a young English player, contemplating a move to Stoke, it would definitely be on my mind.
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Post by Veritas on May 15, 2014 13:02:11 GMT
At the risk of starting the same debate we have had many times already the fact is that as much as Ryan has improved over the last year in terms of his distribution he is not at this stage and in my view ever likley to be an international standard defender. I agree that neither is Jones or Smalling but all that means is Roy should have gone with Lescott and taken a risk with Stones.
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Post by Deleted on May 15, 2014 13:03:42 GMT
are we as a club going to suffer because hodgson cant see past his nose? allready players[and more importantly agents!]have seen the glaring omission of ryan shawcross from the england 30, they will also have noticed that peter crouch was an england regular when sitting on the spurs bench yet when he moves to stoke he doesnt get a look in. i am worried that this will put players off moving to stoke? we allready have the nzonzi story[hopefully bullshit] to be fair, Crouch hadn't played for England for nearly a year BEFORE he moved here (that included all of the qualifiers for the euros and a couple of friendlies) and the fact that he's 33 and every other England forward picked for the WC have scored more goals than him this season may have a little something to do with it. also, as has been pointed out on here several times already, very very few people apart from stoke fans seem to consider that Shawcross is good enough anyway so i don't think that ANYONE apart from Stokies will actually see any kind of anti-Stoke conspiracy anyway. it's only on here that people seem to think that, no-one else in football does so it won't come into players thinking. |
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Post by mynamesnotmark on May 15, 2014 13:04:55 GMT
if we have a full season next year playing like we have these last few months we will go a long way to rebuilding our reputation amongst the media and hopefully then our players will get the recognition they deserve
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Post by mrcoke on May 15, 2014 13:11:03 GMT
Pejic played for England while at Stoke. and Tony Allen, but I think the point being made is during the Premiership age. Anything that happened before then doesn't exist in a lot of ageist minds. An age when men were men and didn't cry unless they won the world cup; they just cry now when they don't win like children not getting their own way. |
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Post by Deleted on May 15, 2014 13:13:43 GMT
At the risk of starting the same debate we have had many times already the fact is that as much as Ryan has improved over the last year in terms of his distribution he is not at this stage and in my view ever likley to be an international standard defender. I agree that neither is Jones or Smalling but all that means is Roy should have gone with Lescott and taken a risk with Stones. Only a fool would take a risk on a totally inexperienced player when there's a much more experienced,proven...and arguably better.... player available. |
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Post by Robo10 on May 15, 2014 13:13:45 GMT
I could cope if Hodgson had even just been any of our games since Ryan made his debut, and could at least say he had seen him play.
Wanker.
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Post by kerouac on May 15, 2014 13:15:23 GMT
If you're good enough you'll get picked and Ryan isn't at the moment.Its going to take a while for his" nightmare " debut to be forgotten but another season developing under Hughes and he surely must figure.
I don't think Pulis helped the other side of his game ie the non hoof but that is getting better every game with Les.
Ps Chambo played for England
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Post by Deleted on May 15, 2014 13:25:01 GMT
At the risk of starting the same debate we have had many times already the fact is that as much as Ryan has improved over the last year in terms of his distribution he is not at this stage and in my view ever likley to be an international standard defender. I agree that neither is Jones or Smalling but all that means is Roy should have gone with Lescott and taken a risk with Stones. woy should have had the decency to actually watch ryan play, instead he goes to southhampton he must be getting a bj off the soton chairwoman given the amount of times he has been there. like I said in my op it could have a negative effect on scfc for no fault of our own. |
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Post by Deleted on May 15, 2014 13:26:31 GMT
Pejic played for England while at Stoke. and Tony Allen, but I think the point being made is during the Premiership age. Anything that happened before then doesn't exist in a lot of ageist minds. An age when men were men and didn't cry unless they won the world cup; they just cry now when they don't win like children not getting their own way. ? so people call for a return to the days when people were passionate and now because they do show passion when they get knocked out we slag them off for acting like children? would you prefer they just walked off thinking "Ah fuck it" and then you could slag them off for not caring? jeez, the apparent need for hatred of all that is the Premiership really does blinker people into pushing players into no-win situations doesn't it! |
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Post by Deleted on May 15, 2014 13:31:38 GMT
At the risk of starting the same debate we have had many times already the fact is that as much as Ryan has improved over the last year in terms of his distribution he is not at this stage and in my view ever likley to be an international standard defender. I agree that neither is Jones or Smalling but all that means is Roy should have gone with Lescott and taken a risk with Stones. woy should have had the decency to actually watch ryan play, instead he goes to southhampton he must be getting a bj off the soton chairwoman given the amount of times he has been there. like I said in my op it could have a negative effect on scfc for no fault of our own. the only way it could have a negative effect is if players thought "Well look at those Stoke players that deserve a call up but aren't getting picked, must be because of their name and reputation so i won't go there" but that isn't the reality whether WE think it is or not. if you ask neutrals out there to name a Stoke player that should definitely get a call up then most would say no-one! i.e. NO-ONE else apart from us actually thinks that our players not getting picked is down to who we are anyway, they think they don't get picked because the vast majority of people just don't see any of our players as being good enough. it really is that simple. |
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Post by countofmontecristo on May 15, 2014 13:43:05 GMT
If you're good enough you'll get picked and Ryan isn't at the moment.Its going to take a while for his" nightmare " debut to be forgotten but another season developing under Hughes and he surely must figure. I don't think Pulis helped the other side of his game ie the non hoof but that is getting better every game with Les. Ps Chambo played for England Caulker had a nightmare 70 minutes in that game against Zlatan and it hasn't done his prospects any harm, strangely! |
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Post by redwhite on May 15, 2014 13:49:04 GMT
If Hodgson thought Ryan was good enough he'd pick him. He doesn't. It has fuck all to do with the fact that he plays for us.
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Post by RipRoaringPotter on May 15, 2014 13:54:34 GMT
It simply isn't that much of a "glaring omission" to anyone outside of Stoke-on-Trent.
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Post by thevoid on May 15, 2014 14:00:29 GMT
It's the stigma attached to the club thanks to all the years of Pulisball.
Hopefully, another season of progress next term will be another step to shredding it from our image.
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Post by boskampsflaps on May 15, 2014 14:03:40 GMT
It depends if the players thinking of signing rate Shawcross as good enough for England or not, I'm not convinced its anyone but Stoke fans and a few of their staff (and himself obvs) that feel he should be in the England team.
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Post by countofmontecristo on May 15, 2014 14:26:07 GMT
It depends if the players thinking of signing rate Shawcross as good enough for England or not, I'm not convinced its anyone but Stoke fans and a few of their staff (and himself obvs) that feel he should be in the England team. If the question is.. ...is Ryan good enough for England ? Then my answer would be. ....I'm not sure. If the question is.. .... is Ryan as good as Chris Smalling? Then my answer would be.. ....Are you fucking serious?! I think that's the issue some people struggle with. |
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Post by canadianmoose on May 15, 2014 15:04:36 GMT
woy should have had the decency to actually watch ryan play, instead he goes to southhampton he must be getting a bj off the soton chairwoman given the amount of times he has been there. like I said in my op it could have a negative effect on scfc for no fault of our own. the only way it could have a negative effect is if players thought "Well look at those Stoke players that deserve a call up but aren't getting picked, must be because of their name and reputation so i won't go there" but that isn't the reality whether WE think it is or not. if you ask neutrals out there to name a Stoke player that should definitely get a call up then most would say no-one! i.e. NO-ONE else apart from us actually thinks that our players not getting picked is down to who we are anyway, they think they don't get picked because the vast majority of people just don't see any of our players as being good enough. it really is that simple. Mark Hughes thinks hes good enough. Peter Coates thinks hes good enough. Which English central defenders have performed better than Ryan this year? Certainly not Steven Caulker, Chris Smalling or John Stones thats for sure! Is Ryan world class....no. Not yet and may never be. Is he one of the current best available English defenders?.....yes. |
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Post by mrcoke on May 15, 2014 15:05:03 GMT
and Tony Allen, but I think the point being made is during the Premiership age. Anything that happened before then doesn't exist in a lot of ageist minds. An age when men were men and didn't cry unless they won the world cup; they just cry now when they don't win like children not getting their own way. ? so people call for a return to the days when people were passionate and now because they do show passion when they get knocked out we slag them off for acting like children? would you prefer they just walked off thinking "Ah fuck it" and then you could slag them off for not caring? jeez, the apparent need for hatred of all that is the Premiership really does blinker people into pushing players into no-win situations doesn't it! We're getting off the point of this thread, but I don't agree that crying because you've lost is showing passion or not crying shows you don't care. Crying is perfectly understandable when it is due to a bereavement (or similar) or in joy. To return to the original post, Stoke will players will be disadvantaged in an age where popularity, wealth, personality, celebrity status, good looks, etc. are held in higher regard than ability, talent, dedication, intelligence, knowledge, etc. by society. Maybe Stoke players will get a better look in when the club gets into Europe and wins a cup next season? Everyone likes a winner, (they say, not personally). |
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Post by whereami on May 15, 2014 15:06:38 GMT
When Scudamore said that manu being so piss poor this year was "bad for the premier league", it did make me wonder whether the FA give some suggestions about which players would be "good" for the premier league if there was a tight decision between one or more players for a place in the squad
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Post by Staffsoatcake on May 15, 2014 15:55:33 GMT
When England won the W/C in 66,most of that team played for clubs lying around mid table in the then Div. 1.
Sir Alf Ramsey knew a good player when he saw one and did not give a Donkeys donger which club you played for.
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Post by Deleted on May 15, 2014 16:12:09 GMT
the only way it could have a negative effect is if players thought "Well look at those Stoke players that deserve a call up but aren't getting picked, must be because of their name and reputation so i won't go there" but that isn't the reality whether WE think it is or not. if you ask neutrals out there to name a Stoke player that should definitely get a call up then most would say no-one! i.e. NO-ONE else apart from us actually thinks that our players not getting picked is down to who we are anyway, they think they don't get picked because the vast majority of people just don't see any of our players as being good enough. it really is that simple. Mark Hughes thinks hes good enough. Peter Coates thinks hes good enough. Which English central defenders have performed better than Ryan this year? Certainly not Steven Caulker, Chris Smalling or John Stones thats for sure! Is Ryan world class....no. Not yet and may never be. Is he one of the current best available English defenders?.....yes. point = completely missed!!! yes of course hughes and Coates think he's good enough as do many on here but we are all Stokies! i've yet to see/hear anyone outside of Stoke that think any Stoke player is good enough for a call up or that Ryan is one of the best available English defenders...therefore no other players will see it as being an anti-stoke conspiracy and therefore the omission of Stoke players from the squad won't act as a deterrent to signing future players (which was the original point raised in the OP) if everyone else OUTSIDE of Stoke (eg other Prem managers and players) were saying that Stoke players should be called up and they weren't being then yes, players would worry about their chances about being picked for England and think is it simply a case of big club favouritism but that isn't the case. the rest of the Prem simply think our players aren't being picked because the ones we currently have aren't good enough. the simple fact is that the ONLY people that think that our name and reputation holds players back is US...no-one else agrees with that at all, they simply think that Ryan isn't good enough....therefore why would other players be put off? it's not the same argument as usual i.e. "Should Ryan have been picked?"... it's asking whether this stigma we apparently have with Roy will stop other players from signing for us....the fact is that no-one else is even aware of this apparent stigma so no, it won't effect us negatively in terms of signing others. there are other clubs in the Prem who have players that haven't been picked as well and no doubt their fans will be equally as passionate as we are about Ryan. let's not carry on this little fantasy that it's all poor little Stoke cos it's not, it's just that we're the only ones who constantly whine about it and presume the whole world must be thinking that Ryan hasn't been called up because of who he plays for when the truth is that no other player in the Prem does think that at all. for it to have a negative effect at all then what WE think is completely and utterly 100% irrelevant...for it to have a negative effect it would mean that others also viewed it this way and they just don't.that's actually good news for us. |
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Post by partickpotter on May 15, 2014 16:13:56 GMT
the only way it could have a negative effect is if players thought "Well look at those Stoke players that deserve a call up but aren't getting picked, must be because of their name and reputation so i won't go there" but that isn't the reality whether WE think it is or not. if you ask neutrals out there to name a Stoke player that should definitely get a call up then most would say no-one! i.e. NO-ONE else apart from us actually thinks that our players not getting picked is down to who we are anyway, they think they don't get picked because the vast majority of people just don't see any of our players as being good enough. it really is that simple. Mark Hughes thinks hes good enough. Peter Coates thinks hes good enough. Which English central defenders have performed better than Ryan this year? Certainly not Steven Caulker, Chris Smalling or John Stones thats for sure! Is Ryan world class....no. Not yet and may never be. Is he one of the current best available English defenders?.....yes. 100%. You can see that and you're 4,000 miles away from FA HQ at Wembley. |
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Post by Deleted on May 15, 2014 16:14:57 GMT
It depends if the players thinking of signing rate Shawcross as good enough for England or not, I'm not convinced its anyone but Stoke fans and a few of their staff (and himself obvs) that feel he should be in the England team. If the question is.. ...is Ryan good enough for England ? Then my answer would be. ....I'm not sure. If the question is.. .... is Ryan as good as Chris Smalling? Then my answer would be.. ....Are you fucking serious?! I think that's the issue some people struggle with. and no Stoke fan would disagree with that but that isn't what the OP is saying is it? he's not saying that Ryan should be alled up, he is saying that our players being overlooked backs up this anti-stoke idea and that's why other players may not want to come here....the fact is that no-one else in football thinks that anyway so these anti-stoke feelings we talk about won't have any effect on them because they don't even know they exist...no-one does outside of the Britannia stadium. |
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Post by Deleted on May 15, 2014 16:15:54 GMT
Mark Hughes thinks hes good enough. Peter Coates thinks hes good enough. Which English central defenders have performed better than Ryan this year? Certainly not Steven Caulker, Chris Smalling or John Stones thats for sure! Is Ryan world class....no. Not yet and may never be. Is he one of the current best available English defenders?.....yes. 100%. You can see that and you're 4,000 miles away from FA HQ at Wembley. again...point and question in the OP entirely missed just so people can start yet another thread about "Should Ryan be picked" despite that not being the question asked in the OP  |
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