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Post by Staffsoatcake on Jan 27, 2014 11:25:54 GMT
There is no mystery about Walters,apart from how a championship player gets to earn a living in the Prem.
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Post by nott1 on Jan 27, 2014 11:29:16 GMT
I think he would be better in Whelans position, he has contributed a lot in defensive mode for sometime and we could try someone else (Guidetti/Odemwhatsit) up front. Good idea or not?
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Post by luke45 on Jan 27, 2014 11:31:52 GMT
The hard work and commitment arguement only works if he wins the ball and then does something with it or when he is passed the ball he keeps it long enough to pass it on. Niether still apply, they did once but no longer. Running up and down the pitch doesn't warrant a place in a ball game. Can't tackle, can't pass, can't. score, not a lot left really. And the same applies to Arnautovic, his laziness and poor defence work is only acceptable if he's offering us a lot going offensively, which he hasn't been for some time now. Walters had a poor game yesterday and I wouldn't be against the idea of resting him on Wednesday, but it was no coincidence that the vast majority of Chelsea's attacks came down the right hand side rather than the left hand side. Mourinho knows Arnie's game inside out and he would've known full well that he wouldn't track back and they'd be able to double up on Cameron and a regular basis and that's exactly what they did.
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Post by Paul Spencer on Jan 28, 2014 10:41:27 GMT
The hard work and commitment arguement only works if he wins the ball and then does something with it or when he is passed the ball he keeps it long enough to pass it on. Niether still apply, they did once but no longer. Running up and down the pitch doesn't warrant a place in a ball game. Can't tackle, can't pass, can't. score, not a lot left really. And the same applies to Arnautovic, his laziness and poor defence work is only acceptable if he's offering us a lot going offensively, which he hasn't been for some time now. Walters had a poor game yesterday and I wouldn't be against the idea of resting him on Wednesday, but it was no coincidence that the vast majority of Chelsea's attacks came down the right hand side rather than the left hand side. Mourinho knows Arnie's game inside out and he would've known full well that he wouldn't track back and they'd be able to double up on Cameron and a regular basis and that's exactly what they did. Mourinho targeted the right hand flank because he knows that Cameron is a god awful right back, Pulis did the same at Selhurst Park and the majority of managers we come up against for the rest of the season will do the same.
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Post by Kjones9 on Jan 28, 2014 10:46:42 GMT
I like how to prove walters's worth in the side the best people can come up with is say arnie's shit as well.
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Post by luke45 on Jan 28, 2014 10:56:33 GMT
And the same applies to Arnautovic, his laziness and poor defence work is only acceptable if he's offering us a lot going offensively, which he hasn't been for some time now. Walters had a poor game yesterday and I wouldn't be against the idea of resting him on Wednesday, but it was no coincidence that the vast majority of Chelsea's attacks came down the right hand side rather than the left hand side. Mourinho knows Arnie's game inside out and he would've known full well that he wouldn't track back and they'd be able to double up on Cameron and a regular basis and that's exactly what they did. Mourinho targeted the right hand flank because he knows that Cameron is a god awful right back, Pulis did the same at Selhurst Park and the majority of managers we come up against for the rest of the season will do the same. I think Cameron has been one of our more consistent performers overall this season personally. Granted he's not brilliant defensively, but I have my doubts about Pieters' defensive ability as well, for me he also gets caught out of position too often. One thing is for sure, for all his faults Walters is by far the best wide man we have in terms of tracking back and helping the full back. I'm not saying it's enough to justify a place in the team every week, but the work he does off the ball shouldn't be overlooked.
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Post by Paul Spencer on Jan 28, 2014 11:05:23 GMT
Mourinho targeted the right hand flank because he knows that Cameron is a god awful right back, Pulis did the same at Selhurst Park and the majority of managers we come up against for the rest of the season will do the same. I think Cameron has been one of our more consistent performers overall this season personally. Granted he's not brilliant defensively, but I have my doubts about Pieters' defensive ability as well, for me he also gets caught out of position too often. One thing is for sure, for all his faults Walters is by far the best wide man we have in terms of tracking back and helping the full back. I'm not saying it's enough to justify a place in the team every week, but the work he does off the ball shouldn't be overlooked. Another myth. His stats for this season before Sunday's game, so now it'll be even worse: He's completed EIGHT tackles ALL season! | Arnautovic | Walters | Assaidi | Appearances | 19 | 23 | 17 | Tackles | 31 | 8 | 24 | Interceptions | 14 | 8 | 8 | Goals | 2 | 2 | 4 | Assists | 5 | 2 | 2 | Shots | 43 | 27 | 17 | Successful Dribbles | 38 | 9 | 21 | Key Passes | 31 | 16 | 15 | Dispossessed | 22 | 25 | 21 | Successful Crosses | 42/83 | 9/37 | 17/53 | Accurate Long Balls | 21/32 | 3/12 | 1/3 | MOM | 4 | 1 | 4 | Average Match Rating | 7.14 | 6.52 | 6.78 |
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Post by elystokie on Jan 28, 2014 11:09:46 GMT
I think he would be better in Whelans position, he has contributed a lot in defensive mode for sometime and we could try someone else (Guidetti/Odemwhatsit) up front. Good idea or not? Not imho. He's a liability and he can't tackle or pass very well, add that to the fact that he clearly can't read the game very well and we'd have a disaster playing him there, again imho.
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Post by Clayton Wood on Jan 28, 2014 11:14:01 GMT
I think Cameron has been one of our more consistent performers overall this season personally. Granted he's not brilliant defensively, but I have my doubts about Pieters' defensive ability as well, for me he also gets caught out of position too often. One thing is for sure, for all his faults Walters is by far the best wide man we have in terms of tracking back and helping the full back. I'm not saying it's enough to justify a place in the team every week, but the work he does off the ball shouldn't be overlooked. Another myth. His stats for this season before Sunday's game, so now it'll be even worse: He's completed EIGHT tackles ALL season! | Arnautovic | Walters | Assaidi | Appearances | 19 | 23 | 17 | Tackles | 31 | 8 | 24 | Interceptions | 14 | 8 | 8 | Goals | 2 | 2 | 4 | Assists | 5 | 2 | 2 | Shots | 43 | 27 | 17 | Successful Dribbles | 38 | 9 | 21 | Key Passes | 31 | 16 | 15 | Dispossessed | 22 | 25 | 21 | Successful Crosses | 42/83 | 9/37 | 17/53 | Accurate Long Balls | 21/32 | 3/12 | 1/3 | MOM | 4 | 1 | 4 | Average Match Rating | 7.14 | 6.52 | 6.78 |
The only thing he comes out on top in is being dispossessed. But then as we don't know anything about football we don't see the other things he does. Well it must be top secret then because it's not on that list. Ah didn't Huthy say he makes great tea?
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Post by The Drunken Communist on Jan 28, 2014 11:15:38 GMT
His stats for this season before Sunday's game, so now it'll be even worse: He's completed EIGHT tackles ALL season!
| Arnautovic | Walters | Assaidi | Appearances | 19 | 23 | 17 | Tackles | 31 | 8 | 24 | Interceptions | 14 | 8 | 8 | Goals | 2 | 2 | 4 | Assists | 5 | 2 | 2 | Shots | 43 | 27 | 17 | Successful Dribbles | 38 | 9 | 21 | Key Passes | 31 | 16 | 15 | Dispossessed | 22 | 25 | 21 | Successful Crosses | 42/83 | 9/37 | 17/53 | Accurate Long Balls | 21/32 | 3/12 | 1/3 | MOM | 4 | 1 | 4 | Average Match Rating | 7.14 | 6.52 | 6.78 |
Do you have a link to the website with these stats, Paul? I know they've been banded about on here a bit recently but I can't help thinking they've just been made-up by someone with an 'anti-Walters/Pro-Arnie & Assaidi' agenda. I mean come on, going off the stats Walters only makes one tackle every third season, whereas Arnie is playing seventeen pin-point longballs, whipping in ten crosses & tackling the oppositions enitre team twice for every minute he's on the pitch...... And when the fuck has Assaidi attempted one cross, nevermind fifty-three So do they actually come from a respected website which we can be linked to, or do they just come from some random blogg? (or even more likely, are just completely made-up)
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Post by jimmygscfc1234 on Jan 28, 2014 11:22:08 GMT
Let's try and not make this post too personal or abusive chaps. Walters has had a good innings with us but is past his best and I fail to see how we can justify picking him once this window is closed. You'd have thought he'd be an attractive proposition to a Championship team, if not now, certainly in the Summer. Thanks for the memories John and for that Wembley semi, but it's time for the next phase of your career and you'd go with my very best and sincere wishes.
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Post by Paul Spencer on Jan 28, 2014 11:28:37 GMT
His stats for this season before Sunday's game, so now it'll be even worse: He's completed EIGHT tackles ALL season!
| Arnautovic | Walters | Assaidi | Appearances | 19 | 23 | 17 | Tackles | 31 | 8 | 24 | Interceptions | 14 | 8 | 8 | Goals | 2 | 2 | 4 | Assists | 5 | 2 | 2 | Shots | 43 | 27 | 17 | Successful Dribbles | 38 | 9 | 21 | Key Passes | 31 | 16 | 15 | Dispossessed | 22 | 25 | 21 | Successful Crosses | 42/83 | 9/37 | 17/53 | Accurate Long Balls | 21/32 | 3/12 | 1/3 | MOM | 4 | 1 | 4 | Average Match Rating | 7.14 | 6.52 | 6.78 |
Do you have a link to the website with these stats, Paul? I know they've been banded about on here a bit recently but I can't help thinking they've just been made-up by someone with an 'anti-Walters/Pro-Arnie & Assaidi' agenda. I mean come on, going off the stats Walters only makes one tackle every third season, whereas Arnie is playing seventeen pin-point longballs, whipping in ten crosses & tackling the oppositions enitre team twice for every minute he's on the pitch...... And when the fuck has Assaidi attempted one cross, nevermind fifty-three So do they actually come from a respected website which we can be linked to, or do they just come from some random blogg? (or even more likely, are just completely made-up) So if you are given a link to a respectable website where the stats can be verified, will you finally accept that Walters is an attrocious 'footballer'?
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Post by The Drunken Communist on Jan 28, 2014 11:33:25 GMT
So if you are given a link to a respectable website where the stats can be verified, will you finally accept that Walters is an attrocious 'footballer'? I'm far more interested in seeing Assaidi has made fifty-three crosses with my own eyes .... But yeah, if there is a genuine link for these stats, and there aren't any that have been 'accidentally' leftout, then it'd be hard to make a case for Walters starting ahead of Arnie. So do you have one?
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Post by Paddypotter on Jan 28, 2014 11:35:31 GMT
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Post by Paul Spencer on Jan 28, 2014 11:36:22 GMT
So if you are given a link to a respectable website where the stats can be verified, will you finally accept that Walters is an attrocious 'footballer'? I'm far more interested in seeing Assaidi has made fifty-three crosses with my own eyes .... But yeah, if there is a genuine link for these stats, and there aren't any that have been 'accidentally' leftout, then it'd be hard to make a case for Walters starting ahead of Arnie. So do you have one? Unfortunately I don't mate. It was Ash who put them up originally, so I'll make it my mission today to get him to provide a link as soon as possible.
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Post by fortressbritannia on Jan 28, 2014 11:41:48 GMT
I've said it before and I'll say it again you either play Walter through the middle or not at all.
Unfortunately at the moment Walters is the only one who has any consistency compared to Arnie.
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Post by Paddypotter on Jan 28, 2014 11:47:16 GMT
The only consistency Walters has is he's consistently rubbish.
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Post by luke45 on Jan 28, 2014 12:54:07 GMT
I think Cameron has been one of our more consistent performers overall this season personally. Granted he's not brilliant defensively, but I have my doubts about Pieters' defensive ability as well, for me he also gets caught out of position too often. One thing is for sure, for all his faults Walters is by far the best wide man we have in terms of tracking back and helping the full back. I'm not saying it's enough to justify a place in the team every week, but the work he does off the ball shouldn't be overlooked. Another myth. His stats for this season before Sunday's game, so now it'll be even worse: He's completed EIGHT tackles ALL season! | Arnautovic | Walters | Assaidi | Appearances | 19 | 23 | 17 | Tackles | 31 | 8 | 24 | Interceptions | 14 | 8 | 8 | Goals | 2 | 2 | 4 | Assists | 5 | 2 | 2 | Shots | 43 | 27 | 17 | Successful Dribbles | 38 | 9 | 21 | Key Passes | 31 | 16 | 15 | Dispossessed | 22 | 25 | 21 | Successful Crosses | 42/83 | 9/37 | 17/53 | Accurate Long Balls | 21/32 | 3/12 | 1/3 | MOM | 4 | 1 | 4 | Average Match Rating | 7.14 | 6.52 | 6.78 |
I'm going to require a link as well I'm afraid these stats have been bounded around the Oatcake the last few days and the closest I've seen to someone actually proving them to be genuine is saying they have a contact at Opta who emailed them to him! If they are genuine though then It's pretty hard to argue with stats as conclusive as those and I could certainly see a fair case to drop Walters.
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Post by PONTAFCE on Jan 28, 2014 12:57:55 GMT
Walters the white Sidibe.
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Post by Paddypotter on Jan 28, 2014 12:59:40 GMT
I've put a link on earlier. "Try this" that site has the above info on it.
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Post by philb on Jan 28, 2014 13:00:07 GMT
9 successful dribbles in 23 appearances?!?!
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Post by luke45 on Jan 28, 2014 13:08:53 GMT
I've put a link on earlier. "Try this" that site has the above info on it. From the stats I've browsed through they don't seem to match up though? The website has Arnautovic down with 3 assists for example whereas the other stats suggest he has 5. Presumably the stats that have been copied and pasted apply to all competitions and the Who Scored stats just apply to the Premier League? Either way, neither of them provide conclusive evidence that the stats add up.
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Post by larrypotter on Jan 28, 2014 13:25:20 GMT
It's the manager's fault because Walters is not, and never has been, a wide man. But the guy does his best. If you want to get on someone's case, try Hughes.
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Post by Paul Spencer on Jan 28, 2014 13:44:03 GMT
I've put a link on earlier. "Try this" that site has the above info on it. From the stats I've browsed through they don't seem to match up though? The website has Arnautovic down with 3 assists for example whereas the other stats suggest he has 5. Presumably the stats that have been copied and pasted apply to all competitions and the Who Scored stats just apply to the Premier League? Either way, neither of them provide conclusive evidence that the stats add up. Yep that site obviously doesn't include the cup matches but if you read through their stats and compare them to Ash's table, they broadly follow a similar pattern, obviously they're not going to be exactly the same because the OPTA table is including all the games, however the link above still shows ... Tackles: Arnie 21, Assaidi 18, Walters 8 even though Walters has played over twice as many games as Assaidi in the league and 50% more than Arnie! Fouls: Walters has committed 28 fouls whereas Arnie is at 12 and Assaidi is on 5. Interceptions: Arnie 12, Walters 8, Assaidi 6. Accurate crosses: Arnie 18, Assaidi 13, Walters 6. Pass success rate: Arnie 81.3%, Assaidi 88.3 %, Walters 69.3% There simply isn't a case to be made for Walters anymore.
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Post by luke45 on Jan 28, 2014 13:55:38 GMT
From the stats I've browsed through they don't seem to match up though? The website has Arnautovic down with 3 assists for example whereas the other stats suggest he has 5. Presumably the stats that have been copied and pasted apply to all competitions and the Who Scored stats just apply to the Premier League? Either way, neither of them provide conclusive evidence that the stats add up. Yep that site obviously doesn't include the cup matches but if you read through their stats and compare them to Ash's table, they broadly follow a similar pattern, obviously they're not going to be exactly the same because the OPTA table is including all the games, however the link above still shows ... Tackles: Arnie 21, Assaidi 18, Walters 8 even though Walters has played over twice as many games as Assaidi in the league and 50% more than Arnie! Fouls: Walters has committed 28 fouls whereas Arnie is at 12 and Assaidi is on 5. Interceptions: Arnie 12, Walters 8, Assaidi 6. Accurate crosses: Arnie 18, Assaidi 13, Walters 6. Pass success rate: Arnie 81.3%, Assaidi 88.3 %, Walters 69.3% There simply isn't a case to be made for Walters anymore. Based on those statistics there is justifiable reason to call for Walters to be dropped I agree. You do have to wonder though why managers continue to see reason to pick him, Pulis and Hughes have 17 years of Premier League experience between them and both of them saw the merits of picking him, and Trapattoni saw the merits of picking him on a regular basis for Ireland as well. All these coaches have far more access to different in depth stats and figures than we do so there must be something in those figures that justify good reason to start him every week. If Hughes is trying to implement a possession style of play to our club then I can't see why he would sacrifice technically better players for a player who happens to cover more distance on a pitch than anyone else.
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Post by RAF on Jan 28, 2014 14:02:24 GMT
Yep that site obviously doesn't include the cup matches but if you read through their stats and compare them to Ash's table, they broadly follow a similar pattern, obviously they're not going to be exactly the same because the OPTA table is including all the games, however the link above still shows ... Tackles: Arnie 21, Assaidi 18, Walters 8 even though Walters has played over twice as many games as Assaidi in the league and 50% more than Arnie! Fouls: Walters has committed 28 fouls whereas Arnie is at 12 and Assaidi is on 5. Interceptions: Arnie 12, Walters 8, Assaidi 6. Accurate crosses: Arnie 18, Assaidi 13, Walters 6. Pass success rate: Arnie 81.3%, Assaidi 88.3 %, Walters 69.3% There simply isn't a case to be made for Walters anymore. Based on those statistics there is justifiable reason to call for Walters to be dropped I agree. You do have to wonder though why managers continue to see reason to pick him, Pulis and Hughes have 17 years of Premier League experience between them and both of them saw the merits of picking him, and Trapattoni saw the merits of picking him on a regular basis for Ireland as well. All these coaches have far more access to different in depth stats and figures than we do so there must be something in those figures that justify good reason to start him every week. If Hughes is trying to implement a possession style of play to our club then I can't see why he would sacrifice technically better players for a player who happens to cover more distance on a pitch than anyone else. I reckon, and some may not like it but I think managers do still appreciate 100% effort, loyalty and dogged determination, even if it is to the detriment of skill. Unfortunately those qualities I mentioned first can only take you so far. H
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Post by Paul Spencer on Jan 28, 2014 14:09:40 GMT
Based on those statistics there is justifiable reason to call for Walters to be dropped I agree. You do have to wonder though why managers continue to see reason to pick him, Pulis and Hughes have 17 years of Premier League experience between them and both of them saw the merits of picking him, and Trapattoni saw the merits of picking him on a regular basis for Ireland as well. All these coaches have far more access to different in depth stats and figures than we do so there must be something in those figures that justify good reason to start him every week. If Hughes is trying to implement a possession style of play to our club then I can't see why he would sacrifice technically better players for a player who happens to cover more distance on a pitch than anyone else. I reckon, and some may not like it but I think managers do still appreciate 100% effort, loyalty and dogged determination, even if it is to the detriment of skill. Unfortunately those qualities I mentioned first can only take you so far. H You're probably right there RAF. Maybe Hughes feels that when he's got prima donnas like N'Zonzi and Arnautovic around the place, he needs someone like Walters in there to balance the scales on that front, personally I don't think it's a good enough reason at all - he offers us absolutely nothing whatsoever as a footballer.
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Post by luke45 on Jan 28, 2014 14:24:02 GMT
I reckon, and some may not like it but I think managers do still appreciate 100% effort, loyalty and dogged determination, even if it is to the detriment of skill. Unfortunately those qualities I mentioned first can only take you so far. H You're probably right there RAF. Maybe Hughes feels that when he's got prima donnas like N'Zonzi and Arnautovic around the place, he needs someone like Walters in there to balance the scales on that front, personally I don't think it's a good enough reason at all - he offers us absolutely nothing whatsoever as a footballer. I agree that's probably the case as well. I can understand the logic behind that, Walters is a good talker and someone who leads by example with his attitude, but equally I can see the argument that he's technically not as good as some of the players he is starting ahead of, and we need our best technical players on the pitch if we want to play possession football.
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