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Post by Menorca Stokie on May 3, 2013 6:53:39 GMT
Lets be grateful ah, 6 years ago not many people outside the UK knew the name Stoke City anyway., especially across the pond.
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Post by stokiejoeofalsager on May 3, 2013 7:07:35 GMT
I really don't give two shits about what fans of Houston Dynamo think about us. The problem is its not just Houston Dynamo. Since we've gone up people's opinion of us has bombed. For the first couple of seasons I was getting mates saying how impressed they were by our up and at them attitude now I'm getting how awful we are to watch and how all we do is negate and kill games. Sooner or later our reputation will catch up with us and no one managers or players will join us who want to progress in the game. In my opinion we can get rid of our reputation with a clever appointment and we can start moving forward again. If we stay up which we should now, next pre season could be our most important yet and could shape what will happen for years to come. If TP stays I fear the worst. Thankyou cobham! You get the point I was trying to make. I dont particularly care what other fans think of us, However our reputation could make big signings harder to make.
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Post by staffsvilla on May 3, 2013 8:38:58 GMT
from an outsiders point of view for what its worth i wouldn't worry about what a load of yanks think about you or your team as their football knowledge wouldn't fill the back of a postage stamp, however joking apart, looking at the 2 main points style of play and you as fans, style of play, well sometimes not pretty on the eye but most of the moaning about it comes after teams fail to beat you, when you get beat we don't hear much about it,but when shall we say a "big team" fail to beat you its all this "i couldn't watch that every week","that's how they play,terrible" etc etc, as for the fans being seen as arrogant i live in a Stokie area and without wishing to sound condescending i think your lot are one of the most down to earth bunch of supporters to be found anywhere, most of you know your football and also have realistic expectations of where Stoke should expect to be, if we are talking arrogant fans obviously the "big 4/5/6" and after that teams such as Newcastle,West Ham and sadly Villa
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Post by Deleted on May 3, 2013 8:42:45 GMT
Awwww you'll make Stoke-on-Trent collectively blush.
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Post by nik80 on May 3, 2013 8:44:16 GMT
The person in question actually said 'ignorant supporters' not 'arrogant' however the points on here still stand. On what basis does he level his claim that we are ignorant?!
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Post by staffsvilla on May 3, 2013 8:44:16 GMT
Awwww you'll make Stoke-on-Trent collectively blush. dont get carried away mate i dont live in stoke (wave)
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Post by staffsvilla on May 3, 2013 8:45:13 GMT
The person in question actually said 'ignorant supporters' not 'arrogant' however the points on here still stand. On what basis does he level his claim that we are ignorant?! arrogant or ignorant my opinion is the same
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Post by nik80 on May 3, 2013 8:46:12 GMT
from an outsiders point of view for what its worth i wouldn't worry about what a load of yanks think about you or your team as their football knowledge wouldn't fill the back of a postage stamp, however joking apart, looking at the 2 main points style of play and you as fans, style of play, well sometimes not pretty on the eye but most of the moaning about it comes after teams fail to beat you, when you get beat we don't hear much about it,but when shall we say a "big team" fail to beat you its all this "i couldn't watch that every week","that's how they play,terrible" etc etc, as for the fans being seen as arrogant i live in a Stokie area and without wishing to sound condescending i think your lot are one of the most down to earth bunch of supporters to be found anywhere, most of you know your football and also have realistic expectations of where Stoke should expect to be, if we are talking arrogant fans obviously the "big 4/5/6" and after that teams such as Newcastle,West Ham and sadly Villa And coincidently the person who levelled the claim is indeed a West Ham supporter
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Post by dadofsam on May 3, 2013 8:54:27 GMT
This is Pulis' enduring legacy and only the most shallow would dismiss it with the old, "I don't care etc" - it does matter for so many reasons not least of which is player recruitment be it juniors or 1st team.
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Post by Deleted on May 3, 2013 9:01:18 GMT
of course it's a problem if other people have low opinions of us!
if fans worldwide think this of us already then how the hell do you think other Prem players look at us having to watch us / play against us week in week out???
the simple fact is that we DON'T pay good wages (in comparison with most other Prem clubs)and we DON'T play good football...basically the ONLY thing that has attracted PLAYERS to us over the last few years is the fact we were a solid, established mid table side but one that also has good cup runs and were thought to be gradually progressing. this season has completely dispelled the myth about us progressing in any way and we seriously flirted with (almost made a drunken pass at) relegation.
we NEED to attract decent players and we're not going to do that with our wage structure so the only thing we have left is our "Reputation"...if people think that this reputation we have (which is now worse than it ever was previously due to our woeful performances since New year)is restricted to fans and fans only so therefore we just shouldn't give a shit then it's massively deluded and short sighted IMO.
about 5 months ago i was already looking forward to the prospect of our first ever top 10 finish in the Prem and the possibilities of some real quality players coming to us in the summer...after what's happened i now expect to see a flood of Championship players (at best!) coming our way!!
it's a little something i like to call "The bigger picture"
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Post by Deleted on May 3, 2013 10:20:47 GMT
where have you been since 2008? This has been the opinion of people too thick to make up their own minds and think what they are told to think by the media for the past 5 years. Funny how it never used to bother anyone when we were doing well
fuck off to Man united if you care what some clueless yanks think
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Post by Deleted on May 3, 2013 10:29:33 GMT
eddie it would be fine if it was JUST some clueless yanks that thought it but if you hadn't noticed pretty much the whole of the UK (including the media and a lot of people associated with professional football) also share the same opinion.
you may be happy with just about EVERYONE involved in the game thinking we're a useless bunch of cloggers with only a Plan A which, quite simply, no longer works but as i mentioned above there IS a bigger picture and if you can't / refuse to see that then i.m pretty sure that you epitomise the whole "Arrogant" tag we're now being labelled with also.
if you want to see our club progress then we HAVE to attract better players, unless we radically change our outlook, our strategy, our transfer policy etc. then quite simply we won't get rid of the tag and will be destined to welcome only lower qulaity players to the Brit for the forseeable future
very shortsighted, knee jerk reaction, overly defensive and dismissive post by you to be fair.
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Post by Deleted on May 3, 2013 10:47:08 GMT
so how do you explain all the articles over the past couple of months about how ungrateful us supporters are for wanting Pulis out? Like it or not he is respected throughout football. We have always had this label, it was much worse after the Shawcross - Ramsey incident than it is now, yet every year we have been able to attract better players (even if Pulis doesn't know what to do with them), we have even been attracting players from the USA.
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Post by okeydokeystokie2 on May 3, 2013 11:04:13 GMT
I disagree with most of this thread.
Let me think now. Stoke City, 2nd oldest club in the world, Matthews, Franklin, Banks... Premier League Club... recent FA Cup finalists and European competition... or Houston Dynamo?
Nope, I'm quite happy to be a Stoke City supporter.
As for American "soccer fans" calling us "ignorant". That's good.
If anybody seriously thinks that our global reputation is anything other than enhanced by being in the Premier League, they need to wake up. Most other countries only see Premier League football from the UK, so therefore we actually exist now overseas.
Also, if anybody seriously thinks that players won't come to Stoke City because of our "reputation or the style of football we play" they need a reality check.
We're in the top 15 in terms of wages in the country, and therefore one of the top payers in Europe, established, well run, relatively debt free club with excellent training facilities and good supporters. We are easily located for Cheshire, the posh bits of Manchester and Birmingham and London's an hour and a half away.
That's part of the reason why Crouch, Owen, Adam, Palacios etc, players who have played for some of the biggest clubs in Europe came here.
Do you honestly think these professional footballers are bothered about our style of play? Wages, benefits, signing on fee, length of contract, add ons, end of.
Get real.
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Post by Deleted on May 3, 2013 11:07:46 GMT
but that's the point i'm getting at eddie...people have seen we have attracted players and still not had a bleeding clue how to use them and that emphasises the point that we are no better than the cloggers that most think we are; if we were better than that then why are we still the lowest scorers, fewest shots on target, almost relegation fodder etc. etc? many in the media were as excited as we were about signing players like Crouch and then players like N'Zonzi and Adam as it indicated that we may then change our route one, hoof it up, park the bus and see what drops tactics. instead we've seen exactly the same tactics as per usual and those players simply shoehorned in and forced to forget all they've ever learned or done before in football and play "The Pulis way".
yes, the media call us ungrateful but that's just lazy excuses for a story that isn't really there and because they just see us a small time club that should just be grateful to even be in the Prem; you'd have a point if them calling us ungrateful went hand in hand with them suddenly changing tack and saying we were a damn good side and paying us compliments but that isn't the case. you can't just quote how some call us ungrateful and conveniently ignore how the same journalists still slate us at every opportunity they get!....every week you still see all the columnists talk about what a dreadful game it was to watch, dull, non-event as a spectacle, not how football at the highest level (which the Prem supposedly is) should be played etc. etc.
playing this kind of football was fine for the first couple of years as we "Evolved" and worked our way into the Prem family but few people see any excuse for it nowadays and that WILL lead to players just not wanting to come here. as i said we don't pay the same wages other clubs do, we're NOT evolving at all and we've now gone from being a mid table side to a side that almost ended up in severe trouble and next year many will see as one of the favourites for the drop unless something radical happens in the summer. if you genuinely think that simply attracting big, household names (Crouch for instance although he was already in his 30's and had to move as he wasn't getting games at Spurs anyway) is the same as attracting QUALITY players that fit our style and can help us progress then you've fallen into the same trap as Pulis. Crouch and Owen came because basically no-one else wanted them, they were both either already past their sell by date or coming up to it and neither could get regular football where they were so just because they're a household name based on their previous years in the Prem in no way implies that that means we're suddenly in the market for "Quality" (if Crouch was 5 years younger we'd have stood no chance whatsoever of getting him!).
attracting players from the USA also means very very little to be fair..just about ANY Prem side could sign an American simply because they see it as a way of being able to play in the Premiership...i'd put money on it that if Cameron hadn't been here already then Shea would have gone to bloody Reading if they'd been interested...if you REALLY think they came because they were excited about playing for Stoke specifically then i think you really need to take your Pulis cap off and start looking at the reality of how football works mate!
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Post by cobhamstokey on May 3, 2013 11:14:41 GMT
but that's the point i'm getting at eddie...people have seen we have attracted players and still not had a bleeding clue how to use them and that emphasises the point that we are no better than the cloggers that most think we are; if we were better than that then why are we still the lowest scorers, fewest shots on target, almost relegation fodder etc. etc? many in the media were as excited as we were about signing players like Crouch and then players like N'Zonzi and Adam as it indicated that we may then change our route one, hoof it up, park the bus and see what drops tactics. instead we've seen exactly the same tactics as per usual and those players simply shoehorned in and forced to forget all they've ever learned or done before in football and play "The Pulis way". yes, the media call us ungrateful but that's just lazy excuses for a story that isn't really there and because they just see us a small time club that should just be grateful to even be in the Prem; you'd have a point if them calling us ungrateful went hand in hand with them suddenly changing tack and saying we were a damn good side and paying us compliments but that isn't the case. you can't just quote how some call us ungrateful and conveniently ignore how the same journalists still slate us at every opportunity they get!....every week you still see all the columnists talk about what a dreadful game it was to watch, dull, non-event as a spectacle, not how football at the highest level (which the Prem supposedly is) should be played etc. etc. playing this kind of football was fine for the first couple of years as we "Evolved" and worked our way into the Prem family but few people see any excuse for it nowadays and that WILL lead to players just not wanting to come here. as i said we don't pay the same wages other clubs do, we're NOT evolving at all and we've now gone from being a mid table side to a side that almost ended up in severe trouble and next year many will see as one of the favourites for the drop unless something radical happens in the summer. if you genuinely think that simply attracting big, household names (Crouch for instance although he was already in his 30's and had to move as he wasn't getting games at Spurs anyway) is the same as attracting QUALITY players that fit our style and can help us progress then you've fallen into the same trap as Pulis. Crouch and Owen came because basically no-one else wanted them, they were both either already past their sell by date or coming up to it and neither could get regular football where they were so just because they're a household name based on their previous years in the Prem in no way implies that that means we're suddenly in the market for "Quality" (if Crouch was 5 years younger we'd have stood no chance whatsoever of getting him!). attracting players from the USA also means very very little to be fair..just about ANY Prem side could sign an American simply because they see it as a way of being able to play in the Premiership...i'd put money on it that if Cameron hadn't been here already then Shea would have gone to bloody Reading if they'd been interested...if you REALLY think they came because they were excited about playing for Stoke specifically then i think you really need to take your Pulis cap off and start looking at the reality of how football works mate! Spot on. In summary we need a new manager because the current one doesn't know how to handle talented players or what to do with them. He's done great to get us where we are namely the PL but he's doing more damage than good now.
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Post by Deleted on May 3, 2013 11:15:45 GMT
I disagree with most of this thread. Let me think now. Stoke City, 2nd oldest club in the world, Matthews, Franklin, Banks... Premier League Club... recent FA Cup finalists and European competition... or Houston Dynamo? Nope, I'm quite happy to be a Stoke City supporter. As for American "soccer fans" calling us "ignorant". That's good. If anybody seriously thinks that our global reputation is anything other than enhanced by being in the Premier League, they need to wake up. Most other countries only see Premier League football from the UK, so therefore we actually exist now overseas. Also, if anybody seriously thinks that players won't come to Stoke City because of our "reputation or the style of football we play" they need a reality check. We're in the top 15 in terms of wages in the country, and therefore one of the top payers in Europe, established, well run, relatively debt free club with excellent training facilities and good supporters. We are easily located for Cheshire, the posh bits of Manchester and Birmingham and London's an hour and a half away. That's part of the reason why Crouch, Owen, Adam, Palacios etc, players who have played for some of the biggest clubs in Europe came here. Do you honestly think these professional footballers are bothered about our style of play? Wages, benefits, signing on fee, length of contract, add ons, end of. Get real. Let me think...Stoke city, how many people actually know (or care as it has bugger all to do with a player's decision to be fair) that we're the second oldest club in the world? Matthews, Franklin, Banks who were years and years ago so irrelevant to most fans (otherwise they wouldn't be slagging us off in the first placewould they??) unless of course you're saying we can expect to suddenly see scores of players flock to Bolton because of Nat Lofthouse? Premier league club (by the skin of our teeth and any quality player will have noticed that this year). you've just done nothing other than show why YOU love our club but nothing to illustrate why any player would want to come to us. the historical facts they simply won't care about (unless they're a lifelong Stoke fan they probably won't even know these facts anyway)but what they WILL care about is what everyone has seen this season which has, in general, been woeful and right down there with Reading and QPR in terms of quality and below them in terms of entertainment. Crouch - over 30 couldn't get a game for his side and no-one else in the Prem wanted him Owen - Over 30, should already have retired, no-one else in the Prem wanted him and he publically said he wouldn't drop divisions Adam - no-one else in the Prem wanted him, wasn't regularly getting a starting place and Rodgers told him wasn't part of his plans Palacios - No-one else in the Prem wanted him, hasn't played regularly for anyone for a long time and since coming here still hasn't see the trend there okey???? massive massive difference between signing those players and being able to attract REAL quality (Benteke, Lukaku..jesus even Bent refused to come here!) yes, we can attract "Big name" players as long as their "Big names" were made in the past rather than the here and now and no-one else wants but we can attract them simply because they either come here or go to the Championship! N'Zonzi is the only one that is the exception to that rule to be fair, all the rest you mentioned are just you doing the same as Pulis did when he bought them; getting a hard on for someone who was once a household name but we'd actually have no chance of getting if they were still the quality they were when they created that name, so therefore thinking that's the same as progressing Get real.
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Post by metalhead on May 3, 2013 11:17:03 GMT
Not losing any sleep
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Post by okeydokeystokie2 on May 3, 2013 11:19:08 GMT
but that's the point i'm getting at eddie...people have seen we have attracted players and still not had a bleeding clue how to use them and that emphasises the point that we are no better than the cloggers that most think we are; if we were better than that then why are we still the lowest scorers, fewest shots on target, almost relegation fodder etc. etc? many in the media were as excited as we were about signing players like Crouch and then players like N'Zonzi and Adam as it indicated that we may then change our route one, hoof it up, park the bus and see what drops tactics. instead we've seen exactly the same tactics as per usual and those players simply shoehorned in and forced to forget all they've ever learned or done before in football and play "The Pulis way". yes, the media call us ungrateful but that's just lazy excuses for a story that isn't really there and because they just see us a small time club that should just be grateful to even be in the Prem; you'd have a point if them calling us ungrateful went hand in hand with them suddenly changing tack and saying we were a damn good side and paying us compliments but that isn't the case. you can't just quote how some call us ungrateful and conveniently ignore how the same journalists still slate us at every opportunity they get!....every week you still see all the columnists talk about what a dreadful game it was to watch, dull, non-event as a spectacle, not how football at the highest level (which the Prem supposedly is) should be played etc. etc. playing this kind of football was fine for the first couple of years as we "Evolved" and worked our way into the Prem family but few people see any excuse for it nowadays and that WILL lead to players just not wanting to come here. as i said we don't pay the same wages other clubs do, we're NOT evolving at all and we've now gone from being a mid table side to a side that almost ended up in severe trouble and next year many will see as one of the favourites for the drop unless something radical happens in the summer. if you genuinely think that simply attracting big, household names (Crouch for instance although he was already in his 30's and had to move as he wasn't getting games at Spurs anyway) is the same as attracting QUALITY players that fit our style and can help us progress then you've fallen into the same trap as Pulis. Crouch and Owen came because basically no-one else wanted them, they were both either already past their sell by date or coming up to it and neither could get regular football where they were so just because they're a household name based on their previous years in the Prem in no way implies that that means we're suddenly in the market for "Quality" (if Crouch was 5 years younger we'd have stood no chance whatsoever of getting him!). attracting players from the USA also means very very little to be fair..just about ANY Prem side could sign an American simply because they see it as a way of being able to play in the Premiership...i'd put money on it that if Cameron hadn't been here already then Shea would have gone to bloody Reading if they'd been interested...if you REALLY think they came because they were excited about playing for Stoke specifically then i think you really need to take your Pulis cap off and start looking at the reality of how football works mate! What a load of rubbish. The only reason players go to any club is money and benefits. Do you honestly believe that professional footballers go to another club because they like the way they play? Do you think Chris Samba really liked the QPR when he was a kid, and decided to leave Anzhi to go back and help his favourite club out? Or could it have been that he went to those relegation candidates because they paid £12.5 million with a hefty signing on fee and about £100 grand a week, with a release clause if they got relegated? No. no, you're probably right. He probably always had that ambition to play alongside Clint Hill.
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Post by Fenparkpotter on May 3, 2013 11:22:50 GMT
Guess we've cracked the Stateside market then with out American purchases
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Post by prudhoe1981 on May 3, 2013 11:26:12 GMT
Reputation does matter. A part of me says "who gives a toss what others think of Stoke" but if we want to attract decent players who see a move to Stoke as a sound career move then we have to improve the way we play football. A different manager will bring a different philosophy, but I can see TP staying for a while yet.
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Post by okeydokeystokie2 on May 3, 2013 11:27:23 GMT
I disagree with most of this thread. Let me think now. Stoke City, 2nd oldest club in the world, Matthews, Franklin, Banks... Premier League Club... recent FA Cup finalists and European competition... or Houston Dynamo? Nope, I'm quite happy to be a Stoke City supporter. As for American "soccer fans" calling us "ignorant". That's good. If anybody seriously thinks that our global reputation is anything other than enhanced by being in the Premier League, they need to wake up. Most other countries only see Premier League football from the UK, so therefore we actually exist now overseas. Also, if anybody seriously thinks that players won't come to Stoke City because of our "reputation or the style of football we play" they need a reality check. We're in the top 15 in terms of wages in the country, and therefore one of the top payers in Europe, established, well run, relatively debt free club with excellent training facilities and good supporters. We are easily located for Cheshire, the posh bits of Manchester and Birmingham and London's an hour and a half away. That's part of the reason why Crouch, Owen, Adam, Palacios etc, players who have played for some of the biggest clubs in Europe came here. Do you honestly think these professional footballers are bothered about our style of play? Wages, benefits, signing on fee, length of contract, add ons, end of. Get real. Crouch - over 30 couldn't get a game for his side and no-one else in the Prem wanted him Owen - Over 30, should already have retired, no-one else in the Prem wanted him and he publically said he wouldn't drop divisions Adam - no-one else in the Prem wanted him, wasn't regularly getting a starting place and Rodgers told him wasn't part of his plans Palacios - No-one else in the Prem wanted him, hasn't played regularly for anyone for a long time and since coming here still hasn't see the trend there okey???? massive massive difference between signing those players and being able to attract REAL quality (Benteke, Lukaku..jesus even Bent refused to come here!) yes, we can attract "Big name" players as long as their "Big names" were made in the past rather than the here and now and no-one else wants because they either come here or go to the Championship! N'Zonzi is the only one that is the exception to that rule to be fair, all the rest you mentioned are just you doing the same as Pulis did when he bought them; getting a hard on for someone who was once a household name but we'd actually have no chance of getting if they were still the quality they were when they created that name, so therefore thinking we're now progressing Get real. Oh come on, Mick, please tell me you don't believe that players won't come here because of our style? Bent would have jogged here if the deal was right. Sunderland offered him more wonga. It's that simple. Or maybe he preferred the delights of wearside and Steve Bruce's silky football. Our wages dictate the kind of players we can buy, but none of those players you mention would have come if we couldn't agree the right deal. If we had scouted Bentake and Lukaku, and offered a them a better deal than Villa and The Baggies, do you honestly think they would have gone to the other club for less money? Wake up and smell the coffee Mick. In the words of Bob Dylan, Money Swears. Edit: Those things you mention about Stoke City, history and tradition, I was using that as a comparison to that historic, globally renowned club, Houston Dynamo. I wasn't suggesting players move because of a club's heritage you prawn. There's 3 reasons players go to any club. Money, money and money.
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Post by Deleted on May 3, 2013 11:29:44 GMT
but that's the point i'm getting at eddie...people have seen we have attracted players and still not had a bleeding clue how to use them and that emphasises the point that we are no better than the cloggers that most think we are; if we were better than that then why are we still the lowest scorers, fewest shots on target, almost relegation fodder etc. etc? many in the media were as excited as we were about signing players like Crouch and then players like N'Zonzi and Adam as it indicated that we may then change our route one, hoof it up, park the bus and see what drops tactics. instead we've seen exactly the same tactics as per usual and those players simply shoehorned in and forced to forget all they've ever learned or done before in football and play "The Pulis way". yes, the media call us ungrateful but that's just lazy excuses for a story that isn't really there and because they just see us a small time club that should just be grateful to even be in the Prem; you'd have a point if them calling us ungrateful went hand in hand with them suddenly changing tack and saying we were a damn good side and paying us compliments but that isn't the case. you can't just quote how some call us ungrateful and conveniently ignore how the same journalists still slate us at every opportunity they get!....every week you still see all the columnists talk about what a dreadful game it was to watch, dull, non-event as a spectacle, not how football at the highest level (which the Prem supposedly is) should be played etc. etc. playing this kind of football was fine for the first couple of years as we "Evolved" and worked our way into the Prem family but few people see any excuse for it nowadays and that WILL lead to players just not wanting to come here. as i said we don't pay the same wages other clubs do, we're NOT evolving at all and we've now gone from being a mid table side to a side that almost ended up in severe trouble and next year many will see as one of the favourites for the drop unless something radical happens in the summer. if you genuinely think that simply attracting big, household names (Crouch for instance although he was already in his 30's and had to move as he wasn't getting games at Spurs anyway) is the same as attracting QUALITY players that fit our style and can help us progress then you've fallen into the same trap as Pulis. Crouch and Owen came because basically no-one else wanted them, they were both either already past their sell by date or coming up to it and neither could get regular football where they were so just because they're a household name based on their previous years in the Prem in no way implies that that means we're suddenly in the market for "Quality" (if Crouch was 5 years younger we'd have stood no chance whatsoever of getting him!). attracting players from the USA also means very very little to be fair..just about ANY Prem side could sign an American simply because they see it as a way of being able to play in the Premiership...i'd put money on it that if Cameron hadn't been here already then Shea would have gone to bloody Reading if they'd been interested...if you REALLY think they came because they were excited about playing for Stoke specifically then i think you really need to take your Pulis cap off and start looking at the reality of how football works mate! What a load of rubbish. The only reason players go to any club is money and benefits. Do you honestly believe that professional footballers go to another club because they like the way they play? Do you think Chris Samba really liked the QPR when he was a kid, and decided to leave Anzhi to go back and help his favourite club out? Or could it have been that he went to those relegation candidates because they paid £12.5 million with a hefty signing on fee and about £100 grand a week, with a release clause if they got relegated? No. no, you're probably right. He probably always had that ambition to play alongside Clint Hill. sorry, you're right....all the players you mentioned were being fought for tooth and nail by several clubs and they wanted desperately to come to the Brit didn't they! tell you what why don't we put a cheeky bid in for Benteke, Lukaku, Michu (i could go on) see what they say eh? after all the ONLY thing they care about is money isn't it? Delusional defence of Pulis in the EXTREME!!! but as they say, If nothing else works, a total pig-headed unwillingness to look facts in the face will see us through
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Post by Deleted on May 3, 2013 11:40:28 GMT
Crouch - over 30 couldn't get a game for his side and no-one else in the Prem wanted him Owen - Over 30, should already have retired, no-one else in the Prem wanted him and he publically said he wouldn't drop divisions Adam - no-one else in the Prem wanted him, wasn't regularly getting a starting place and Rodgers told him wasn't part of his plans Palacios - No-one else in the Prem wanted him, hasn't played regularly for anyone for a long time and since coming here still hasn't see the trend there okey???? massive massive difference between signing those players and being able to attract REAL quality (Benteke, Lukaku..jesus even Bent refused to come here!) yes, we can attract "Big name" players as long as their "Big names" were made in the past rather than the here and now and no-one else wants because they either come here or go to the Championship! N'Zonzi is the only one that is the exception to that rule to be fair, all the rest you mentioned are just you doing the same as Pulis did when he bought them; getting a hard on for someone who was once a household name but we'd actually have no chance of getting if they were still the quality they were when they created that name, so therefore thinking we're now progressing Get real. Oh come on, Mick, please tell me you don't believe that players won't come here because of our style? Bent would have jogged here if the deal was right. Sunderland offered him more wonga. It's that simple. Or maybe he preferred the delights of wearside and Steve Bruce's silky football. Our wages dictate the kind of players we can buy, but none of those players you mention would have come if we couldn't agree the right deal. If we had scouted Bentake and Lukaku, and offered a better them a better deal than Villa and The Baggies, do you honestly think they would have gone to the other club for less money? Wake up and smell the coffee Mick. In the words of Bob Dylan, Money Swears. okey...you're completely missing a massive, influential and fundamental point of whether players go to a club and that does go hand in hand with the style of football we play.....their FUTURE!!!!!! our style has been COMPLETELY AND UTTERLY found out by virtually EVERY team that play against us!! we are one dimensional, predicatable and easy to set up against before a whistle has even been blown...we came very very close this season to a relegation battle (technically we're still in it)and if you genuinely think that those facts will have gone completely unnoticed by players wanting to go to a Prem club then it really is you that needs to get real!! in the summer players will have choices of where to go and our pitch is "Yes, we know other Prem clubs maybe interested in you and probably have more chance of staying up and therefore securing your Prem career BECAUSE OF THEIR STYLE OF FOOTBALL but will you just ignore all that and we'll pay you a little bit extra?" what do you think they'll say okey????? QPR are a massively unfair club for you to just sling into the equation; they were taken over by a billionaire who was willing to plough massive amounts of money into a team to try to gain instant success...a large part of why players went there was simply because of the OTHER players that had agreed to go so therefore many would have seen ambition, a vision for the future and, on paper, a realistic chance of achieving good things in the Prem because of the personnel they were looking to bring in. in short, many would have seen them as the "Next Man City" in terms of the potential future of the club so therefore a secure financial future! you however seem to disagree that the financial future of a player at your club goes hand in hand with that clubs survival in the Prem and that IS a consequence of HOW THAT TEAM PLAYS FOOTBALL!!!! this idea that our style is solid, teams find it hard to play against etc. (i.e. the old tag we had previously) has now completely disappeared after this season okey and even at home we are no longer a team to be "Feared". you may refuse to admit it but that's your problem because pretty much EVERYONE else in football now sees it as fact!
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Post by okeydokeystokie2 on May 3, 2013 11:45:45 GMT
Mick, I can't believe you want to continue with this.
For all we know, there may have been other clubs in for Crouch, Owen and Adam. I'm fairly sure Everton were linked with both Owen and Adam.
So why do you think they came to Stoke? We offered them a better deal. This really isn't difficult and I can't really understand what part of this you are struggling with. Likewise, for all I know, we may have been in for Hoillett or Wright-Phillips, but they opted to go to QPR because a better offer was on the table.
It's the basic laws of supply and demand.
We could put in an offer for Bentake or Lukaku, but what do you think they will do? They'll wait. Their stock has risen and they are now out of our price range. This is so basic. Somebody will offer their clubs a bigger fee and the player more money.
The only reason players leave Arsenal is they have a rigid wage structure. Man Utd virtually doubled Arsenal's best offer to Van Persie of about £130k a week.
These guys are professional mercenaries with a short career. Talk about me being delusional?! What do you think motivates them to change clubs?
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Post by okeydokeystokie2 on May 3, 2013 11:51:54 GMT
Oh come on, Mick, please tell me you don't believe that players won't come here because of our style? Bent would have jogged here if the deal was right. Sunderland offered him more wonga. It's that simple. Or maybe he preferred the delights of wearside and Steve Bruce's silky football. Our wages dictate the kind of players we can buy, but none of those players you mention would have come if we couldn't agree the right deal. If we had scouted Bentake and Lukaku, and offered a better them a better deal than Villa and The Baggies, do you honestly think they would have gone to the other club for less money? Wake up and smell the coffee Mick. In the words of Bob Dylan, Money Swears. okey...you're completely missing a massive, influential and fundamental point of whether players go to a club and that does go hand in hand with the style of football we play.....their FUTURE!!!!!! our style has been COMPLETELY AND UTTERLY found out by virtually EVERY team that play against us!! we are one dimensional, predicatable and easy to set up against before a whistle has even been blown...we came very very close this season to a relegation battle (technically we're still in it)and if you genuinely think that those facts will have gone completely unnoticed by players wanting to go to a Prem club then it really is you that needs to get real!! in the summer players will have choices of where to go and our pitch is "Yes, we know other Prem clubs maybe interested in you and probably have more chance of staying up and therefore securing your Prem career BECAUSE OF THEIR STYLE OF FOOTBALL but will you just ignore all that and we'll pay you a little bit extra?" what do you think they'll say okey????? QPR are a massively unfair club for you to just sling into the equation; they were taken over by a billionaire who was willing to plough massive amounts of money into a team to try to gain instant success...a large part of why players went there was simply because of the OTHER players that had agreed to go so therefore many would have seen ambition, a vision for the future and, on paper, a realistic chance of achieving good things in the Prem because of the personnel they were looking to bring in. in short, many would have seen them as the "Next Man City" in terms of the potential future of the club so therefore a secure financial future! you however seem to disagree that the financial future of a player at your club goes hand in hand with that clubs survival in the Prem and that IS a consequence of HOW THAT TEAM PLAYS FOOTBALL!!!! this idea that our style is solid, teams find it hard to play against etc. (i.e. the old tag we had previously) has now completely disappeared after this season okey and even at home we are no longer a team to be "Feared". you may refuse to admit it but that's your problem because pretty much EVERYONE else in football now sees it as fact! Mick, I'm sorry but that is absolute rubbish. For a start, we still have that reputation as one of the hardest away fixtures in the league, but it is completely irrelevant to our transfer policy. I'll tell you exactly what any player will say. Show me the contract. If that's the best offer, I'm on my way. If I can get a better offer, see you later. If you believe anything else you are living in your own little world.
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Post by foster on May 3, 2013 11:55:17 GMT
1) Money first, then 2) reputation or location - depending on the players preference.
If the difference in money is fairly insignificant then jump straight to 2).
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Post by Deleted on May 3, 2013 12:01:22 GMT
okey, why completely ignore what i've said then call me delusional???? okey...you're completely missing a massive, influential and fundamental point of whether players go to a club and that does go hand in hand with the style of football we play.....their FUTURE!!!!!! Read more: oatcakefanzine.proboards.com/thread/213531/bad-reputation?page=2#ixzz2SEHxgM6qwe came very very close this season to a relegation battle (technically we're still in it)and if you genuinely think that those facts will have gone completely unnoticed by players wanting to go to a Prem club then it really is you that needs to get real!! in the summer players will have choices of where to go and our pitch is "Yes, we know other Prem clubs maybe interested in you and probably have more chance of staying up and therefore securing your Prem career BECAUSE OF THEIR STYLE OF FOOTBALL but will you just ignore all that and we'll pay you a little bit extra?" Read more: oatcakefanzine.proboards.com/thread/213531/bad-reputation?page=2#ixzz2SEI3xUeCfirstly.... 1) the only other team in for Crouch was Sunderland but they wouldn't guarantee him games (public knowledge) 2) No-one else was in for Owen (public knowledge) it isn't just about how much a club offer them as soon as they sign and that's that...yes, we all know they want money but you really have got it into your head that's the one and only thing they are interested in and all they care about is the short term of that money which is garbage and also incredibly bad business acumen!! they are led by agents who are far better businessmen than the players themselves and therefore are there to look after that players future and therefore that players' (and their own) future earnings! therefore they want to ideally go to a club that will pay them well but will also be a club that will succeed as that is the only real way to give them a shop window to move them further up the ladder and therefore earn more by engineering moves to bigger and bigger clubs as their career progresses hence making more and more money! hence the reason Buttland came to us turning down Man city and Chelsea in the process..yes, he could earn more warming their benches in the short term but in the long term he needs to be playing football so he can get international caps, be noticed by bigger teams, move to them and get more money...see it now???? bigger picture okey!!! it's a career for them not just a one off cash in hand window cleaning job FFS..it's how the business side of agents and football works!!!! we are a side that by no means guarantee any success and no longer categorically guarantee even survival in the Prem and THAT IS BECAUSE OF HOW WE PLAY FOOTBALL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! i agree it is ultimately about money for the players but unfortunately you seem to be completely unable to see how that money is made in the first place!!! i'll try to put it as simply as i can as i'm not getting through / you're intentionally ignoring the bloody obvious: 1) Players want money 2) They get that money by engineering moves to progressively bigger clubs over their career 3) They need to be in a shop window for big clubs to engineer those moves 4) To be in a shop window they need to be at a club in the top flight 5) To be in the top flight that club cannot play dire, turgid, unprogressive, uninspired and ultimately completely unsuccessful football or they will be relegated see, 5 easy steps..get it now?
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Post by Deleted on May 3, 2013 12:15:29 GMT
okey...you're completely missing a massive, influential and fundamental point of whether players go to a club and that does go hand in hand with the style of football we play.....their FUTURE!!!!!! our style has been COMPLETELY AND UTTERLY found out by virtually EVERY team that play against us!! we are one dimensional, predicatable and easy to set up against before a whistle has even been blown...we came very very close this season to a relegation battle (technically we're still in it)and if you genuinely think that those facts will have gone completely unnoticed by players wanting to go to a Prem club then it really is you that needs to get real!! in the summer players will have choices of where to go and our pitch is "Yes, we know other Prem clubs maybe interested in you and probably have more chance of staying up and therefore securing your Prem career BECAUSE OF THEIR STYLE OF FOOTBALL but will you just ignore all that and we'll pay you a little bit extra?" what do you think they'll say okey????? QPR are a massively unfair club for you to just sling into the equation; they were taken over by a billionaire who was willing to plough massive amounts of money into a team to try to gain instant success...a large part of why players went there was simply because of the OTHER players that had agreed to go so therefore many would have seen ambition, a vision for the future and, on paper, a realistic chance of achieving good things in the Prem because of the personnel they were looking to bring in. in short, many would have seen them as the "Next Man City" in terms of the potential future of the club so therefore a secure financial future! you however seem to disagree that the financial future of a player at your club goes hand in hand with that clubs survival in the Prem and that IS a consequence of HOW THAT TEAM PLAYS FOOTBALL!!!! this idea that our style is solid, teams find it hard to play against etc. (i.e. the old tag we had previously) has now completely disappeared after this season okey and even at home we are no longer a team to be "Feared". you may refuse to admit it but that's your problem because pretty much EVERYONE else in football now sees it as fact! Mick, I'm sorry but that is absolute rubbish. For a start, we still have that reputation as one of the hardest away fixtures in the league, but it is completely irrelevant to our transfer policy. I'll tell you exactly what any player will say. Show me the contract. If that's the best offer, I'm on my way. If I can get a better offer, see you later. If you believe anything else you are living in your own little world. and apparently the same world Jack Butland lives in, unless of course we offered more money than both Man City and Chelsea? do you think we did? really?
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Post by okeydokeystokie2 on May 3, 2013 12:24:41 GMT
Mick, I'm not ignoring your point, it just doesn't make any sense at all. You are absolutely deluded on this issue, and I'm sorry, you're also completely wrong.
The style of football doesn't matter. The contract matters. If a club is relegated, they still have to pay the contract. The club may want to sell to get some money in and get them off the wage bill, but unless the buying club can meet that players wages, the player will stay and see out their contracts.
Why do you think Carlos Tevez doesn't make his "dream move" back to Bocca Juniors? It's because in spite of the fact he's a millionaire, they can't meet his wage demands.
Why do you think players like Santa Cruz are content to sit outside of Man City's 25 man squad, training with the kids? Because he would have to take such a massive pay cut to play for any other team, he would rather not play.
If you are relegation candidates, you may have to pay more for a player or miss out. But if you are prepared to pay, as QPR have proved, you will get the player.
Edit: I think Butland knows he has more chance of first team football. Clearly our "reputation" didn't bother him either, which actually completely disproves your argument. But, well done Stoke, because if say, Everton, Villa, Fulham, Newcastle, Sunderland etc had also approached him and offered him a better deal, where do you think he would have gone?
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