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Post by Deleted on May 3, 2013 14:52:08 GMT
no, they'd come here because even the Championship (if we ended up there) is of a higher level and has more opportunities in terms of being in a shop window than being there does, so automatically they increase their chance of increasing their future earnings...simples! Out of many odd things you have posted, this could be the strangest. First you say that players wouldn't come to Stoke because somehow in your world we've become favourites for relegation and play the wrong kind of football. Then above, you say they'd choose us over Anzhi even if we were in the Championship (?) because it would increase their future earnings. Anzhi have been in the Europa League. I would have thought that might increase a players worth above the Championship using your argument. I have some sympathy for your 8 year old if he or she is trying to follow the logic of your argument, because I sure as hell am struggling. so you're struggling to understand that in business in order to achieve maximum revenue you generally have to be visible to those that can help you achieve this??? not that hard to understand really is it? yes Anzhi have been in the Europa league..and,correct me if i'm wrong, so have we! if we were in the Championship then we would be a side that had been in the Europa league and playing in English football which most other European teams ( and certainly Premiership ones)have more visibility and knowledge of than the Russian league. i also like the way that you're happy to discuss this hypothetical situation but when myself and cobham bring one up you simply discount it as bollocks!!! lovely jubbly okey! love your consistency (although you do consistently conveniently ignore questions/points you can't answer i suppose to be fair to you) sorry, what are you struggling with exactly?
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Post by Deleted on May 3, 2013 14:58:26 GMT
oh dear oh dear!!!!!! another one who's fallen into the trap of "They disagree with me and they're not happy with what's happening at the club so therefore they must despise the manager" i DON'T dislike Pulis you troll!!! never have and never will i simply feel he's reached his peak is all and there's bugger all wrong with that..everyone does at some point. i have an immense amount of gratitude,time and respect for Pulis and have stated on many many occasions that i dislike the bile and vitriol that people spout without any good reason and have actually stated one of the major reasons i want him to go is simply because i don't want to see him hounded out and being remembered as a figure the fans hated because he deserves far far more respect than that!!!!!! although that has absolutely sod all to do with the discussion anyway but just sums you up completely as someone who rather than putting together a formulated argument will happily just make shit up that suits himself in a desperate attempt to win by punching below the belt in the absence of anything rational to say and getting it completely wrong!!! Well done, award for biggest pile of shite 2013 goes to eddieg!!! if you're going to disagree then fine but don't tell me what i think just so it's easy for you to wrap up and put into a PHW/Rimmers argument!!! sad, very sad! That's the kind of response I would expect on here. I don't spend my entire life on here so I have no idea what you say in your other posts, but I now think you need to get out more
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Post by Deleted on May 3, 2013 15:02:20 GMT
That's the kind of response I would expect on here. I don't spend my entire life on here so I have no idea what you say in your other posts, but I now think you need to get out more ????? so you have no idea about what i put on my other posts but felt it was fine to arbitrarily decide i was ranting based on my dislike of the manager anyway despite not knowing if i did dislike him??? then when i pull you up on YOU being wrong you decide to insult me???? brilliant mate, just brilliant!!! just about shows the brain power you possess there mate....for Okey's sake (who's opinion IS valid and does try to validate what his reasons for them are unlike yourself)i hope he distances himself from you regardless as to whether you share the same opinion, you wouldn't be doing him any favours with your last two posts!
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Post by staffsvilla on May 3, 2013 15:02:46 GMT
i can see your point but thats a poor example mate as he scored to put Malaga into the champions league last 8 for the first time in their history Thanks for putting me straight on that one! You're right though, it is a problem for players on massive contracts to get a move if they are going to be worse off. The very fact that it is a short career might mean they are better off seeing out their huge contract not playing, rather than playing for another club. Winston Bogarde at Chelsea would be the ultimate example on 40k a week for 4 years and didnt get into double figs in game starts, he even told the press" why should i move for less money, they decided to set my contract not me,so i'll train every day and make myself available for selection,the rest is up to them"
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Post by cobhamstokey on May 3, 2013 15:04:08 GMT
The problem arises when we're offering the same deal as the likes of Fulham, Sunderland, West Ham, Swansea, WBA, Southampton and Cardiff etc. Then it's a footballing decision where we lose every time. and you have proof of this? Or it just opinion based on your dislike of Pulis? I have no proof it's just common sense and opinion. What do we have to offer. In my opinion if I was a player these would be my priorities when choosing a club. Money Size of club Location Prospects ie playing style would it suit my game The manager When we're competing on an even key on the first 2 the bottom 2 can be the deciding factor. I'm not convinced that TPs inability to use youngsters and the underuse of flair players would sell the club to players.
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Post by okeydokeystokie2 on May 3, 2013 15:15:18 GMT
More backsliding Micky.
I am struggling because you're argument is completely inconsistent.
First you say that our reputation to fans in Houston will stop Premier League players wanting to come to Stoke. Strange conclusion.
Then, when a number of people point out that money is king in football, your argument slides to some spurious, personal theory that we might be relegated next season so that might put players off. Your original "Houston reputation" theory now seems to be taking a back seat.
Then you support Cobham's ridiculous theory that if 7 clubs all offered exactly the same deal the player would decide not to come to us for footballing reasons.
At some point your argument goes into your usual UPPER CASE rant about progressing or lack of and that it's all Tony's fault.
You keep spouting on about basic business (Hello, that's what we're talking about here: money dictates where players go) and somehow your child becomes involved to demonstrate how simple this argument is.
Then you suddenly tell me you've been agreeing with me all along and it is all about the money.
Then we have the Anzhi argument that contradicts everything you've said. Players if offered the same money would come to us to enhance their future worth, even in The Championship, rather than play in the Europa League.
Finally you came up with 2 completely irrelevant, hypothetical arguments, one involving Lionel Messi turning down Wigan Athletic and the other involving a Barbers Shop and a hairdressers.
Is it any wonder I'm struggling to follow?
For clarity, here's my one argument. When it comes to footballers contracts and transfers, there is no "football style" decision. There is only a commercial decision.
Edit: I didn't ignore yours and Cobhams argument. I pointed out it was utterly simplistic to assume 7 clubs would offer exactly the same deal, and that even if hypothetically they did, their agent would go back and negotiate with those clubs for a better deal from one of them, and that is the club the player would go to.
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Post by cobhamstokey on May 3, 2013 15:27:11 GMT
More backsliding Micky. I am struggling because you're argument is completely inconsistent. First you say that our reputation to fans in Houston will stop Premier League players wanting to come to Stoke. Strange conclusion. Then, when a number of people point out that money is king in football, your argument slides to some spurious, personal theory that we might be relegated next season so that might put players off. Your original "Houston reputation" theory now seems to be taking a back seat. Then you support Cobham's ridiculous theory that if 7 clubs all offered exactly the same deal the player would decide not to come to us for footballing reasons. At some point your argument goes into your usual UPPER CASE rant about progressing or lack of and that it's all Tony's fault. You keep spouting on about basic business (Hello, that's what we're talking about here: money dictates where players go) and somehow your child becomes involved to demonstrate how simple this argument is. Then you suddenly tell me you've been agreeing with me all along and it is all about the money. Then we have the Anzhi argument that contradicts everything you've said. Players if offered the same money would come to us to enhance their future worth, even in The Championship, rather than play in the Europa League. Finally you came up with 2 completely irrelevant, hypothetical arguments, one involving Lionel Messi turning down Wigan Athletic and the other involving a Barbers Shop and a hairdressers. Is it any wonder I'm struggling to follow? For clarity, here's my one argument. When it comes to footballers contracts and transfers, there is no "football style" decision. There is only a commercial decision. Edit: I didn't ignore yours and Cobhams argument. I pointed out it was utterly simplistic to assume 7 clubs would offer exactly the same deal, and that even if hypothetically they did, their agent would go back and negotiate with those clubs for a better deal from one of them, and that is the club the player would go to. It's easy to speculate I guess only time will tell. If we reopen this thread after the next window and I've got it wrong I'll put my hands up. There's no one that would love us getting the likes of Ince, Redmond etc to the club more than me.
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Post by ukcstokie on May 3, 2013 15:54:07 GMT
Two factors I think we're missing in all of this are the influence of Agents and friends/team mates.
Agents will - in many cases - want to see a move as a stepping stone to a bigger club. When considering a move to Stoke they'll consider just who has had their career developed by Stoke recently. Is there really anyone who's left Stoke and gone on to bigger and better things since we got to the Prem? I'm struggling to name one.
The other aspect is team mates/friends/family reaction to hearing a player is being courted by us. I suspect the general reaction is piss take - "hoof", "you'll have to practice you're heading" type of thing. While I'm sure that the more confident wouldn't be affected, but unless we are offering easily the best contract (which I suspect is not too often), or the we're the only club interested, it will affect the player's decision making. A lot of people will listen to friends an co-workers advice before making a change of employer. I can't believe that this factor has not had an affect on who we've been able to sign in the past.
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Post by jstoke7 on May 3, 2013 15:58:36 GMT
I think it's incredibly naive to suggest playing style of a club and doesn't affect a players decision, it may not be the most important factor, but to completely discard it is ridiculous IMO.
Whatever you wanna think about it, we're not really helping ourselves by the brand of football we play are we?
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Post by okeydokeystokie2 on May 3, 2013 16:18:04 GMT
More backsliding Micky. I am struggling because you're argument is completely inconsistent. First you say that our reputation to fans in Houston will stop Premier League players wanting to come to Stoke. Strange conclusion. Then, when a number of people point out that money is king in football, your argument slides to some spurious, personal theory that we might be relegated next season so that might put players off. Your original "Houston reputation" theory now seems to be taking a back seat. Then you support Cobham's ridiculous theory that if 7 clubs all offered exactly the same deal the player would decide not to come to us for footballing reasons. At some point your argument goes into your usual UPPER CASE rant about progressing or lack of and that it's all Tony's fault. You keep spouting on about basic business (Hello, that's what we're talking about here: money dictates where players go) and somehow your child becomes involved to demonstrate how simple this argument is. Then you suddenly tell me you've been agreeing with me all along and it is all about the money. Then we have the Anzhi argument that contradicts everything you've said. Players if offered the same money would come to us to enhance their future worth, even in The Championship, rather than play in the Europa League. Finally you came up with 2 completely irrelevant, hypothetical arguments, one involving Lionel Messi turning down Wigan Athletic and the other involving a Barbers Shop and a hairdressers. Is it any wonder I'm struggling to follow? For clarity, here's my one argument. When it comes to footballers contracts and transfers, there is no "football style" decision. There is only a commercial decision. Edit: I didn't ignore yours and Cobhams argument. I pointed out it was utterly simplistic to assume 7 clubs would offer exactly the same deal, and that even if hypothetically they did, their agent would go back and negotiate with those clubs for a better deal from one of them, and that is the club the player would go to. It's easy to speculate I guess only time will tell. If we reopen this thread after the next window and I've got it wrong I'll put my hands up. There's no one that would love us getting the likes of Ince, Redmond etc to the club more than me. You're right, mate, time will tell. I think you will be disppointed though because I suspect that Ince and Redmond might be out of our league now. This is not based on our football style or reputation but purely on a commercial basis. If Zaha has gone to Man Utd for £12m(?) and probably £75 - £100K per week, then I don't think we'll afford Ince or Redmond. Ince has already been linked with Spurs, who it looks as though will lose Bale. I would have thought a player like Pilkington is more realistic for our budget. Let's hope TP can find another Matthew Etherington from somewhere.
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Post by scfclurker on May 3, 2013 19:20:06 GMT
The title of this thread really depresses me...
"how bad our reputation is..."
What ever happened to the "no-one likes us and we don't care" mentality from the first season to the FA cup final season?
IMO the biggest problem that the club has at the moment is some of our 'loyal' fan base moaning and groaning at every turn and NOT the club itself. Every club has a duff season or two once in a while, and the tide will turn once we are established proper (I said on a previous thread that I still do not consider ourselves established yet even after 5 years. It will take 10 at least IMO)
This board used to be a good read once upon a time, now its just a slanging match. Pulis said something in his 'broken record' post match interview last week that really hit a chord with me. He said " you have good times and bad times, but the most important thing of all is that we all stick together as a group"
Pulis out? No. Fair weather supporters out more like.
Before I get Bricks thrown at me I realise that its not everyone on here that's turning this board in to celebrity death match, and I also understand that we all have our own opinions, but I think we as fans also have a significant part to play when it comes to the worldwide reputation of our beloved club.
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Post by stokiejoeofalsager on May 3, 2013 19:28:53 GMT
The title of this thread really depresses me... "how bad our reputation is..." What ever happened to the "no-one likes us and we don't care" mentality from the first season to the FA cup final season? IMO the biggest problem that the club has at the moment is some of our 'loyal' fan base moaning and groaning at every turn and NOT the club itself. Every club has a duff season or two once in a while, and the tide will turn once we are established proper (I said on a previous thread that I still do not consider ourselves established yet even after 5 years. It will take 10 at least IMO) This board used to be a good read once upon a time, now its just a slanging match. Pulis said something in his 'broken record' post match interview last week that really hit a chord with me. He said " you have good times and bad times, but the most important thing of all is that we all stick together as a group" Pulis out? No. Fair weather supporters out more like. Before I get Bricks thrown at me I realise that its not everyone on here that's turning this board in to celebrity death match, and I also understand that we all have our own opinions, but I think we as fans also have a significant part to play when it comes to the worldwide reputation of our beloved club. I think you should read the rest of the thread. We may still have the 'nobody likes us and we dont care mentality', which is all well and good. However, looking at the bigger picture, our worldwide reputation isnt going to help us, is it?
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Post by scfclurker on May 3, 2013 19:59:02 GMT
The title of this thread really depresses me... "how bad our reputation is..." What ever happened to the "no-one likes us and we don't care" mentality from the first season to the FA cup final season? IMO the biggest problem that the club has at the moment is some of our 'loyal' fan base moaning and groaning at every turn and NOT the club itself. Every club has a duff season or two once in a while, and the tide will turn once we are established proper (I said on a previous thread that I still do not consider ourselves established yet even after 5 years. It will take 10 at least IMO) This board used to be a good read once upon a time, now its just a slanging match. Pulis said something in his 'broken record' post match interview last week that really hit a chord with me. He said " you have good times and bad times, but the most important thing of all is that we all stick together as a group" Pulis out? No. Fair weather supporters out more like. Before I get Bricks thrown at me I realise that its not everyone on here that's turning this board in to celebrity death match, and I also understand that we all have our own opinions, but I think we as fans also have a significant part to play when it comes to the worldwide reputation of our beloved club. I think you should read the rest of the thread. We may still have the 'nobody likes us and we dont care mentality', which is all well and good. However, looking at the bigger picture, our worldwide reputation isnt going to help us, is it? a) Has it ever helped us since we were back in the top flight? b) We are not actually a bad team. The media hype us up to be cavemen because it sells news (a lot of trash off here too in some stories) c) Who cares! We are a stable premier league team that can attract players because of our status, not reputation! I don't agree with that last point, but way of the world now unfortunately.
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Post by fortressbritannia on May 3, 2013 20:38:52 GMT
I'm going to stick in with my pennies worth.
At the moment we are a NEGATIVE club and have been for the past 2 seasons, the previous 3 seasons we were a positive club with positive football however the press had already made up there mind about us. Though the cup final season changed that it debunked a hell of a lot of myths surrounding Stoke City people realised that we were a positive club that still had to ability to dig in and grind out a 0-0 or a1-0, but if you weren't at a 100% we would easily throw you out.
We had a team that wholeheartedly brought into the Stoke City philosophy and to great effect. Now the problems started in the following summer, what TP should have done is add 2/3 players to help strengthen the match day squad, getting those new players in and around the current squad helping them to buy into the philosophy whilst helping improve performance in the league at the same time. Which would make it easier to attract new players.
The simple matter is that we should have built on.the solid foundations that we built in the previous few seasons but haven't. It has led to us just been a very average PL club.
I largely agree with Cobham but I'd make a few little adjustments:
1. Money 2. How good us the club. 3. Location 4. How big is the club 5. Prospects 6. Manager
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Post by Stokie Mcpot on May 3, 2013 20:57:51 GMT
All I can honestly say is, I couldn't give less of a fuck about the opinion of those who exclusively follow every bit of diarrhoea that is shovelled in front of them if I tried. Sure, we're not an attractive team but there are far worse teams to watch than us. They could end up with Millwall after all.
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Post by scfcbiancorossi on May 3, 2013 21:04:07 GMT
I find it pretty baffling how some fans claim they arent concerned by the club being internationally recognised as an absolutely dour side to watch.
Many of these same people seem to be happy playing premier league football based merely on the recognition the club gets for it. Self-contradictory at best.
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Post by scfcbiancorossi on May 3, 2013 21:05:02 GMT
All I can honestly say is, I couldn't give less of a fuck about the opinion of those who exclusively follow every bit of diarrhoea that is shovelled in front of them if I tried. Sure, we're not an attractive team but there are far worse teams to watch than us. They could end up with Millwall after all. Thats an absolutely ridiculous statement. Tell me one team in the english game who are as dull, one dimensional and boring to watch as Stoke?
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Post by philm87 on May 3, 2013 21:22:52 GMT
We should be concerned that our reputation might deter the kind of quality we need to make improvements. I think this has more to do with certain players not being used properly - Adam, Crouch, Owen - rather than the one-dimensional style.
But soccer fans... fucking do one.l
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Post by prem4stoke on May 3, 2013 21:29:01 GMT
All I can honestly say is, I couldn't give less of a fuck about the opinion of those who exclusively follow every bit of diarrhoea that is shovelled in front of them if I tried. Sure, we're not an attractive team but there are far worse teams to watch than us. They could end up with Millwall after all. Thats an absolutely ridiculous statement. Tell me one team in the english game who are as dull, one dimensional and boring to watch as Stoke? Not as ridiculous as yours. Stoke the worst football team in England
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Post by scfcbiancorossi on May 3, 2013 21:59:26 GMT
Thats an absolutely ridiculous statement. Tell me one team in the english game who are as dull, one dimensional and boring to watch as Stoke? Not as ridiculous as yours. Stoke the worst football team in England Answer the question then? We arent talking results here we are talking about a team who are as dull, one dimensional and boring to watch as Tony Pulis's Stoke. Care to tell me one? You cant and you fucking know it.
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Post by Deleted on May 3, 2013 22:16:33 GMT
Thats an absolutely ridiculous statement. Tell me one team in the english game who are as dull, one dimensional and boring to watch as Stoke? Not as ridiculous as yours. Stoke the worst football team in England He isn't saying we are the worse football team in England though is he you daft fucker?
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Post by prem4stoke on May 3, 2013 22:52:25 GMT
Not as ridiculous as yours. Stoke the worst football team in England He isn't saying we are the worse football team in England though is he you daft fucker? Your as daft as him if you think Stoke are the most one dimentional boring stale dire bile rugby turgid shittest team in England Sorry if I forgot a few of the other words you call us.
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Post by prem4stoke on May 3, 2013 22:54:30 GMT
Not as ridiculous as yours. Stoke the worst football team in England He isn't saying we are the worse football team in England though is he you daft fucker? Oh and no need to call me names you should be banned for calling me that really when did I abuse you?
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Post by prem4stoke on May 3, 2013 23:14:39 GMT
Not as ridiculous as yours. Stoke the worst football team in England Answer the question then? We arent talking results here we are talking about a team who are as dull, one dimensional and boring to watch as Tony Pulis's Stoke. Care to tell me one? You cant and you fucking know it. You, Sid and many others don't like how Stoke play that's as plain as un-salted crisps. But let us simpletons enjoy a good game of football now and again without dog abuse because we don't want to feel we need to please everybody else or our egos on a Monday morning. Our games are no different than most other games in England I can assure you of that.
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Post by Stokie Mcpot on May 3, 2013 23:59:33 GMT
All I can honestly say is, I couldn't give less of a fuck about the opinion of those who exclusively follow every bit of diarrhoea that is shovelled in front of them if I tried. Sure, we're not an attractive team but there are far worse teams to watch than us. They could end up with Millwall after all. Thats an absolutely ridiculous statement. Tell me one team in the english game who are as dull, one dimensional and boring to watch as Stoke? Seriously, No matter how bad we are there will always be a team worse than us. No matter how "ridiculous" my statement is it's utter arse gravy to believe we're the worst team in all English football.
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Post by scfcbiancorossi on May 4, 2013 0:46:16 GMT
Thats an absolutely ridiculous statement. Tell me one team in the english game who are as dull, one dimensional and boring to watch as Stoke? Seriously, No matter how bad we are there will always be a team worse than us. No matter how "ridiculous" my statement is it's utter arse gravy to believe we're the worst team in all English football. I'm still waiting for someone to tell me this mystery team that are allegedly as dull, one dimensional and boring as us. No one is saying we are the worst team in English football but rather saying we are the worst team to watch in English football, which is a pretty fair suggestion.
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frumpy
Youth Player
Posts: 324
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Post by frumpy on May 4, 2013 3:48:25 GMT
Reputation is quite poor to be honest over here in the states.
Put it this way, most footy fans here in the states consider Stoke the toughest side to watch in the EPL and MLS fans often make jokes about Stoke. When an MLS side is just playing ugly, route one, hoof style footy, the comparisons to Stoke come out. There's even a coach, Kinnear in Houston, who plays a very ugly defensive minded game, relying on set pieces for goals and just terrible overall movement, and he's considered the Pulis of MLS.
If you were to say American fans are uneducated, remember there's more EPL on tv here than in England. It's the most watched footy league. Next year every EPL game will be shown live, every week. American fans are very familiar with Stoke and think Stoke is absolutely dreadful to watch. Klinnsman didn't want Shea to come here because of how dreadful the style is. Klinnsman didn't want Edu here either, who's doing very, very well in Turkey by the way and has even worn the captains band. And Bursa would beat this current Stoke side. Edu is a key player on a better side yet Pulis had zero use for him.
So take that for what it's worth. On the other side of the pond here in the states, fans hate Stoke due to the style and the manager. Don't even consider it real footy, and a lot of that comes from the complete lack of tactics/movement which is a direct product of Pulis. The movement/tactics are terrible. Has nothing to do with talent or the players. The movement/tactics for many sides in the Championship are superior. Even in MLS they are. It takes no skill to make good runs, support the attack in numbers, attack space, overlap, etc.
And, it's ridiculous in my opinion how many fans here dismiss this as soon as Stoke gets a point from a game. It'll be relegation battles frequently until it changes. Extremely shortsided to dismiss the tactics/movement/low IQ on display week after week after week just because you get a result every now and then. It'd be like your kid never, ever studying for exams and somehow do just well enough to pass his classes, and you're ok with it because he passed, while ignoring it's terrible for his future and he'll constantly be in the state of barely passing exams. I'll also say, good managers don't talk about luck. For Puls it might as well be his middle name. Good sides create their own luck, poor sides with shit managers complain about not being lucky enough.
I'll add something and hope it doesn't offend anyone. MLS sides play a number of friendlies against Euro sides every July. Man U, Man City, Madrid, Liverpool, Roma, Milan, Everton, Juventus, etc, and those games are usually packed. When Stoke comes this summer and plays in Hou and Dallas, it might be full but that'll be due to fans wanting to see Cameron and Shea again, has nothing to do with Stoke itself. If Stoke didn't have Cameron or Shea, there's a big chance those games might not draw even 5K, whereas many of the friendlies without former MLS players to attract fans often get anywhere from 30K-60K, even more.
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Post by cheeesfreeex on May 4, 2013 4:07:20 GMT
...shucks.....
what's the time difference?
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Post by StokieMatt on May 4, 2013 5:52:24 GMT
Yeh, but least we arnt American.
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Post by elystokie on May 4, 2013 8:01:12 GMT
Reputation is quite poor to be honest over here in the states. Put it this way, most footy fans here in the states consider Stoke the toughest side to watch in the EPL and MLS fans often make jokes about Stoke. When an MLS side is just playing ugly, route one, hoof style footy, the comparisons to Stoke come out. There's even a coach, Kinnear in Houston, who plays a very ugly defensive minded game, relying on set pieces for goals and just terrible overall movement, and he's considered the Pulis of MLS. If you were to say American fans are uneducated, remember there's more EPL on tv here than in England. It's the most watched footy league. Next year every EPL game will be shown live, every week. American fans are very familiar with Stoke and think Stoke is absolutely dreadful to watch. Klinnsman didn't want Shea to come here because of how dreadful the style is. Klinnsman didn't want Edu here either, who's doing very, very well in Turkey by the way and has even worn the captains band. And Bursa would beat this current Stoke side. Edu is a key player on a better side yet Pulis had zero use for him. So take that for what it's worth. On the other side of the pond here in the states, fans hate Stoke due to the style and the manager. Don't even consider it real footy, and a lot of that comes from the complete lack of tactics/movement which is a direct product of Pulis. The movement/tactics are terrible. Has nothing to do with talent or the players. The movement/tactics for many sides in the Championship are superior. Even in MLS they are. It takes no skill to make good runs, support the attack in numbers, attack space, overlap, etc. And, it's ridiculous in my opinion how many fans here dismiss this as soon as Stoke gets a point from a game. It'll be relegation battles frequently until it changes. Extremely shortsided to dismiss the tactics/movement/low IQ on display week after week after week just because you get a result every now and then. It'd be like your kid never, ever studying for exams and somehow do just well enough to pass his classes, and you're ok with it because he passed, while ignoring it's terrible for his future and he'll constantly be in the state of barely passing exams. I'll also say, good managers don't talk about luck. For Puls it might as well be his middle name. Good sides create their own luck, poor sides with shit managers complain about not being lucky enough. I'll add something and hope it doesn't offend anyone. MLS sides play a number of friendlies against Euro sides every July. Man U, Man City, Madrid, Liverpool, Roma, Milan, Everton, Juventus, etc, and those games are usually packed. When Stoke comes this summer and plays in Hou and Dallas, it might be full but that'll be due to fans wanting to see Cameron and Shea again, has nothing to do with Stoke itself. If Stoke didn't have Cameron or Shea, there's a big chance those games might not draw even 5K, whereas many of the friendlies without former MLS players to attract fans often get anywhere from 30K-60K, even more. Well that would seem to end the discussion.
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