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Post by visunita442 on Apr 15, 2013 21:54:30 GMT
Personally I think it all started to unravel when we tried to sign Ba on the cheap. This clearly had a knock on effect when we then plumbed or is that got mugged by Arry' for Crouchy (actually think he's a decent footballer but used in entirely the wrong way by Pulis, there's a surprise!) and Where's Wilson? Palacios for a huge amount of money.
I feel as a result of the Ba fiasco Pulis was under incredible pressure to pacify Coatsie & to a lesser extent in turn the supporters to take us to that next level (still not sure what that really is for a club of our size considering we were cup finalists, in Europe & comfortably mid table).
Since then it's been one painful transfer window after another. Signing what on the face of it are very good 'next level' players Nzonzi, Adam but then not having the foresight to play them in an effective manner, which I guess brings me back to Crouch (other examples are available).
I think what I'm trying to say is that the catalogue of mistakes has been prevalent since Ba gate & for me on reflection is the point at which the rot slowly started to set in.
Our manager has attempted to at least give the impression that he's responding to the desires of his chairman but due to his all to obvious limitations hasn't been able to take us to the holy grail next level. It's almost as though he's had all the prezzies on his Santa Christmas list & then decide to play with the boxes they came in. Not to then mention player fall outs, falling out with the fans via his interviews etc etc, but as I pointed out in the thread title this is about when do you think it all started to go wrong? However, the far more important question about what we do to change things still remains with or without Pulis.
Just hope but don't expect us to stay up.
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Post by onionman on Apr 15, 2013 21:55:56 GMT
1863
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Post by Trouserdog on Apr 15, 2013 22:00:03 GMT
The Crouch/Palacios double swoop was the beginning of the end.
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Post by Titan Uranus on Apr 15, 2013 22:04:31 GMT
Signing of Crouch... no doubts.
Wrong player...wrong manager....wrong time....wrong system
Pulis thought he was God after the Wembley experience.
Limited manager with unlimited funds = disaster
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Post by spitthedog on Apr 15, 2013 22:05:25 GMT
The decline of Pennant = the decline of Stoke
He was key.
Still cannot believe that have not replaced him. There were enough warning signs.
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Post by boskampsflaps on Apr 15, 2013 22:06:48 GMT
I'll go with the signing of Crouch too, he wasn't needed, Jones was doing well, the money was needed else where, still glad we didn't sign Ba though.
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Post by Davef on Apr 15, 2013 22:07:25 GMT
I think TP's decision to leave a lot of his senior players at home for the Valencia away match lost him a bit of respect in the dressing room.
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Post by stantheman on Apr 15, 2013 22:18:28 GMT
I think TP's decision to leave a lot of his senior players at home for the Valencia away match lost him a bit of respect in the dressing room. Too right Dave. Danny fookin Collins starting that match was a joke beyond belief and I really think that Pulis had no idea what to do regarding squad rotation. I also think that he really under estimated our support for the Europa League that night and that if we had played a full strength team, who knows, we may have got a result. But his negative defeatist attitude meant that he had written teh game off before we even played it. The team he picked for thegame at Besiktas was also a piss take. We didn't even fill our bench. All we needed was a point and we wouln't have ended up playing the seeded teams. And we got SAlif Diao and Kenwynne Jones playing together in central midfield! For me, letting Ric go in the way he did, and basically swopping him for Micheal Owen, was bad management. |
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Post by ashleyscfc on Apr 15, 2013 22:20:02 GMT
Crouch definitely, I dont believe we were ever in for Ba I think it was just rubbish to get Crouch. Same with Remy/KJ window.
We bought a player who doesnt fit the system, doesnt do what we needed him to, had a declining supply of chances and we also wasted money on Palacios and looked stupid for it. Neither had resale value, neither in the grander scheme improved the team and disrupted the balance of the squad as we bought in CJ as well. The only player who would get into the FA cup team now for me would be Nzonzi. Shows how far we havent come, and how far we havent evolved. In that time we have lost the wingers and gained Glen Whelan starting when he was once behind Delap and Whitehead but all of a sudden has become the glue.
This is overlooking the Gudjohnsens, Tuncay, Tongue, Soares, Arismendi, Edu, Ness, Davies, Owen.
Then we have the next category of Shea, Adam, Cameron, Owen of players he has either no intention or idea how to play or get the best out of them. I worry for Butland too as his recent comments about Begovic serving under Sorensen is just laying the foundation for Butland to either go back out on loan or be expected to sit on the bench. Either way one of our keepers needs to go in the summer as sending him back out on loan would be criminal.
We have the same old problems with lack of wingers, effective strike force, creative midfield and a left back. And we have the new problems of how to play wingers and/or playing a 3 man midfield to accommodate Adam. How to play what I think is clearly our most effective strike force of Jones and Jerome and accommodate Adam. Further more we have Cameron/Wilson/Edu/Ness all centre midfield players but instead TP refuses to play any in a proper position when all would offer something different. TP will ruin their careers on his own if hes not careful, if its true liverpool have been sniffing round Wilson its testament we arent using him where he could prove best.
Crouch/Palacios signing was the beginning of the end, definitely. We've been unbalanced and in decline ever since.
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Post by Jamo on the wing on Apr 15, 2013 22:20:10 GMT
Around the Man City away game last season.
We'd papered over a few cracks prior but the signs had been there, especially on the road.
The remaining 21 games yielded only 4 wins.
Had we not chalked up consecutive wins against Swansea and Norwich what we're experiencing this season would have happened last year.
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Post by onionman on Apr 15, 2013 22:23:32 GMT
Much as I think the Palacios signing was stupid, I think it was largely irrelevant in a Sonko/Davies kind of way. A huge waste of cash, but not one that particularly changed our direction.
Signing Crouch triggered a crazy obsession with a team selection that blatantly didn't work, and contributed significantly to our downfall.
Failing to prepare for the demise of Etherington's fitness, Ric's sharpness and Pennant's attitude - something anyone with half a brain should have seen was absolutely vital - bordered on negligence.
But the over-riding blunder for me was TP underestimating how badly his whole philosophy would come unstuck when he allowed so many true men's men to leave at the same time, to be replaced by supposed superior footballers and big names who neither care about the club nor have an ounce of fighting spirit between them.
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Post by fentonstokie1 on Apr 15, 2013 22:24:21 GMT
Personally I think it all started to unravel when we tried to sign Ba on the cheap. This clearly had a knock on effect when we then plumbed or is that got mugged by Arry' for Crouchy (actually think he's a decent footballer but used in entirely the wrong way by Pulis, there's a surprise!) and Where's Wilson? Palacios for a huge amount of money. I feel as a result of the Ba fiasco Pulis was under incredible pressure to pacify Coatsie & to a lesser extent in turn the supporters to take us to that next level (still not sure what that really is for a club of our size considering we were cup finalists, in Europe & comfortably mid table). Since then it's been one painful transfer window after another. Signing what on the face of it are very good 'next level' players Nzonzi, Adam but then not having the foresight to play them in an effective manner, which I guess brings me back to Crouch (other examples are available). I think what I'm trying to say is that the catalogue of mistakes has been prevalent since Ba gate & for me on reflection is the point at which the rot slowly started to set in. Our manager has attempted to at least give the impression that he's responding to the desires of his chairman but due to his all to obvious limitations hasn't been able to take us to the holy grail next level. It's almost as though he's had all the prezzies on his Santa Christmas list & then decide to play with the boxes they came in. Not to then mention player fall outs, falling out with the fans via his interviews etc etc, but as I pointed out in the thread title this is about when do you think it all started to go wrong? However, the far more important question about what we do to change things still remains with or without Pulis. Just hope but don't expect us to stay up. Signing players that didn't fit into his rigid system and then trying to evolve his system by trying to make them fit (crouch & adam) while at the same time neglecting to find replacements for other key positions. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 15, 2013 22:24:37 GMT
Blackpool game where Pulis suddenly turned on the one player capable of winning a game for us on his own - without resorting to tactics and shit like that.  |
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Post by onionman on Apr 15, 2013 22:28:19 GMT
I think TP's decision to leave a lot of his senior players at home for the Valencia away match lost him a bit of respect in the dressing room. He certainly burnt a huge amount of his credit with the fans that night, particularly as he'd issued that rallying cry a few days earlier. |
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Post by metalhead on Apr 15, 2013 22:28:44 GMT
Glad we didn't sign Ba, mercenary.
It's all relative. We couldn't help but praise Crouch last season, but this year he hasn't delivered. My issue with Crouch is that we paid well over the odds. He was worth 7 million tops I reckon.
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Post by interestedobserver on Apr 15, 2013 22:29:14 GMT
I think we stopped progressing when we bought Crouch, Palacios and Jerome. We spent 22 million pounds and our starting XI didn't come out a pound better.
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Post by Paul Spencer on Apr 15, 2013 22:30:29 GMT
Signing Crouch.
And then TP trying to dig himself out of a hole that just kept getting deeper and deeper as a result of it.
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Post by Staffsoatcake on Apr 15, 2013 22:33:58 GMT
When Floppy Chops sold us PC & WP.
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Post by boskampsflaps on Apr 15, 2013 22:33:59 GMT
Crouch definitely, I dont believe we were ever in for Ba I think it was just rubbish to get Crouch. Same with Remy/KJ window. We bought a player who doesnt fit the system, doesnt do what we needed him to, had a declining supply of chances and we also wasted money on Palacios and looked stupid for it. Neither had resale value, neither in the grander scheme improved the team and disrupted the balance of the squad as we bought in CJ as well. The only player who would get into the FA cup team now for me would be Nzonzi. Shows how far we havent come, and how far we havent evolved. In that time we have lost the wingers and gained Glen Whelan starting when he was once behind Delap and Whitehead but all of a sudden has become the glue. This is overlooking the Gudjohnsens, Tuncay, Tongue, Soares, Arismendi, Edu, Ness, Davies, Owen. Then we have the next category of Shea, Adam, Cameron, Owen of players he has either no intention or idea how to play or get the best out of them. I worry for Butland too as his recent comments about Begovic serving under Sorensen is just laying the foundation for Butland to either go back out on loan or be expected to sit on the bench. Either way one of our keepers needs to go in the summer as sending him back out on loan would be criminal. We have the same old problems with lack of wingers, effective strike force, creative midfield and a left back. And we have the new problems of how to play wingers and/or playing a 3 man midfield to accommodate Adam. How to play what I think is clearly our most effective strike force of Jones and Jerome and accommodate Adam. Further more we have Cameron/Wilson/Edu/Ness all centre midfield players but instead TP refuses to play any in a proper position when all would offer something different. TP will ruin their careers on his own if hes not careful, if its true liverpool have been sniffing round Wilson its testament we arent using him where he could prove best. Crouch/Palacios signing was the beginning of the end, definitely. We've been unbalanced and in decline ever since. I think we were always in for Ba, he had a medical etc didn't he? |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 15, 2013 22:40:04 GMT
I can't pinpoint the date, but it was last season. TP stopped playing Pennant and Etherington together - we had one one week, and the other next. I reckon that's when the decline started. I think we were a bit lucky to get all of those points before Christmas this season.
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Post by ashleyscfc on Apr 15, 2013 22:40:29 GMT
Doesnt mean we were after him really, I still dont by it like the Remy thing as well. We never do business that way but instead decided to fly him in and put it all over SSN. Utter rubbish, same with Ba. He wanted PC and I imagine HR may of wanted Ba, but surely clubs wouldnt touch him if his knee was so bad due to insurance etc. I may be wrong but I just dont believe we were ever in for Ba or Remy
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Post by fentonstokie1 on Apr 15, 2013 22:41:15 GMT
Signing Crouch. And then TP trying to dig himself out of a hole that just kept getting deeper and deeper as a result of it. If Crouch's injury had kept him sidelined for a few more matches we would probably have several more points in the bag and wouldn't be in this mess now. Then we would just have next season to worry ourselves sick about  |
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Post by bunnyscfc on Apr 15, 2013 22:45:31 GMT
Three years ago our attacking plan evolved around Fuller and Delap. Not replaced.
Two years ago our attacking plan evolved around wingers. Not replaced.
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Post by bunnyscfc on Apr 15, 2013 22:46:10 GMT
Blackpool game where Pulis suddenly turned on the one player capable of winning a game for us on his own - without resorting to tactics and shit like that. *nods* |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 15, 2013 22:49:37 GMT
Blackpool game where Pulis suddenly turned on the one player capable of winning a game for us on his own - without resorting to tactics and shit like that. *nods* Pisser! Saw my profile had a 1 next to it, then saw you'd posted on this thread, and new you'd be quoting me on this one. As predictable as a Pulis pre/post match interview.  |
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Post by stokiet90 on Apr 15, 2013 23:14:41 GMT
I think the 5-0 loss to bolton away.
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Post by rosco on Apr 15, 2013 23:18:49 GMT
How people can say the signing of Crouch is beyond me.
Player of year and top scorer and we were all calling for him to be in the Euro squad.
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Post by cheeesfreeex on Apr 15, 2013 23:22:45 GMT
I've just bid for some hindsight on EBay but the closing date isn't until the middle of May. Is it ok to see if I win it before posting on this particular thread?
Great read though.. just a matter of time before the 'Sack the Board' streams appear with all this finger pointing going on...
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Post by Paul Spencer on Apr 15, 2013 23:24:38 GMT
I've just bid for some hindsight on EBay but the closing date isn't until the middle of May. Is it ok to see if I win it before posting on this particular thread? Great read though.. just a matter of time before the 'Sack the Board' streams appear with all this finger pointing going on... Hindsight ... |
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Post by metalhead on Apr 15, 2013 23:27:40 GMT
How people can say the signing of Crouch is beyond me. Player of year and top scorer and we were all calling for him to be in the Euro squad. I don't think Crouchey is to blame, but I do think we overpaid for him. Just my opinion. |
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