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Post by surreystokie on Apr 3, 2013 18:20:11 GMT
flo, you have a problem, if you are assuming that your child is being taught by anyone whose politics offend you! This is a democratic society and all - even teachers and football managers - are entitled to their opinions. If not, why the vote?
Hope you weren't a Blair-hater when Iraq intervention was declared and discovered that your child's teacher was left wing. Oh dear .......... let's get back to football.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 4, 2013 8:51:22 GMT
that's an awful awful comparison mt.....you're basically saying you would refuse to emply di Canio based on his beliefs in case he actually went around carrying out actions that he believed in???? if not (which i'm guessing you're not) then, as i say, it's a terrible compariosn also, if you are saying that as a club owner you would refuse to emply him because hi spolitical beliefs brings unwarranted attention (Bad PR) to the club then you're breaking the law as you CAN'T legally refuse to employ anyone for a job based on their political beliefs.wehter you agree with law or not is irrelevant (unless you plan to petition Parliament with a view to them changing it) If I was a club owner and I should employ a new manager, I wouldn`t even consider Di Canio. He disqualified himself the way he expressed his opinions in public over the years. I would rather try to find people with other values and, of course, knowledge. How can that be illegal? because the law says it is mt yes, even if you publically state your political views it IS still legally counted as sensitive personal data. if you found a different reason as to why he's not suitable for the job so didn't hire them then fine (as a lot of emplyers do try to do to get around the issue) but if you refuse to hire because of his political beliefs (unless the job is a politically based one in which case it would be reasonable) then you are breaking the law...end of whether you personally agree with it or don't see the sense is, as i said before, completely irrelevant! (and if you're unaware of this then i hope for your sake that you don't do the hiring and firing at your place!!) there are certain instances where it is justified not to hire certain people as i explained before, however if those reasons do NOT hinder their ability to carry out their day to day tasks (and that is solely THEIR day to day tasks and DOES NOT take into account the PR reputation of the company)then you cannot refuse to hire them simply because of these reasons; if you do so then it is discrimination full stop whether that be against disability, religious views, political idealogy, sexuality etc. staggering that so many people on this thread seem to think it fine to discriminate due to political beliefs (which is EXACTLY what many are suggesting should be done) but not to discriminate against other walks of life as that would just be wrong....the law is there for EVERYONE to protect EVERYONE against discrimnation and NOT just the people who's political beliefs you agree with!!! personally i found Thatcher's political views to be abhorrent and to the detriment of the majority of the British public but i wouldn't be able to refuse her a job as an admin clerk because of it as her beliefs would have no impact on her ability to do that job..the PR for the company is completely irrelevant in law! i just don't see the logic...."We hate fascists because they discrimnate against certain sections of society but it's absolutely fine for me to discriminate against them because i don't agree with them"..it doesn't work like in real life i'm afraid. we ALL have different political standpoints and that's what makes human beings what they are; the ability to make conscious decisions based upon their own experiences, knowledge and moral ideaology..we won't always agree on everything but that won't necessarily affect your ability to carry out a certain role in life! the main problem you seem to have mt is that you have completely ignored what many people have told you several times on this thread.....Italian fascism is NOT Nazism, it did not advocate the extermination of particular races (until they were forced to hand over jews to the Germans by Hitler) and did not seek to destroy everyone in their path to achieve world domination!!!!!!!!! Italian Fascism and Nazism are two entirely seperate things!!!!! Mussolini actually argued that the reason for his fascist uprising was to destroy the "Backwardness of the right wing" (who believed only the superior in society should rule) and the "Destructive forces of the left" (who believed that anyone had the right to rule society)...he took the reigns (like Hitler in Germany) at a very uncertain time when the country was spiralling downwards economically and wanted a change to the two perceived notions and Italian fascism was an attempt to combine the two notions and find a middle ground simply to further the influence of Italy in the world at large and try to regain some economic stability (which Hitler also did in Germany and was probably the most successful Chancellor Germany have ever had, taking them from being an extremely poor country with massive unemployment, homelessness and poverty...before he went a bit mad he was actually extremely well respected as a politician globally for what he did to turn Germany around in the late 20s and early 30s) every political standpoint has fanatics and extremists who DO take things way too far and their beliefs start to blur because of this but as it stands, all di Canio is guilty of is saying he admired some of Mussolini's beliefs (which you will find, millions of Italians also do in the same way millions of Germans admired Hitler before he went potty!) simply because Mussolini wanted to try to get Italy back on track and achieved this! whether you agree with him or not is simply something you CANNOT say unless you have a knowledge of what Mussolini believed, what he did, how he did it and what exactly it is that Di Canio admires about him. simply stating "I don't like Di Canio because he says he's fascist and fascism is bad" is just complete ognorance in my opinion...you haven't looked into fascism (specfically Italian fascism) and have no idea of what Di Canio's personal views are, you've simply lumped all fascism into "That's the Nazi's right? well they killed shitloads of people..that's all i need to know!" and that is ridiculously sweeping and generalising statement that massively fails to actually look at the facts.
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Post by foster on Apr 4, 2013 9:01:33 GMT
Who cares if it's legal or not. They'll be plenty of reasons to not hire him anyway. You just make up some bullshit about him not having Prem experience or something.
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Post by Huddysleftfoot on Apr 4, 2013 9:06:05 GMT
Spot on Lakeland..fascists are also enemies of democracy and freedom. PDC admits to being a fascist so for me he shouldn't be getting employment at a club that has a multi cultural and racial squad and a proud local history of fighting and defeating fascism. .......so in order to ptotect freedom - you advocate denying Di Canio his ......errrm FREEDOM! (in this case freedom to gain employment). Brilliant. You do understand that under a fascist regime you would have NO freedom don't you? Why on earth would you support a self confessed fascist?
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Post by Deleted on Apr 4, 2013 9:11:57 GMT
Who cares if it's legal or not. They'll be plenty of reasons to not hire him anyway. You just make up some bullshit about him not having Prem experience or something. yep, it's like when people clutch at straws to slag off Pulis when they really don't need to...why bother when they are so many other valid reasons to use to refuse him the job? the only thing i find annoying is that people start a thread slagging off Di Canio's personal beliefs despite not having any knowledge of what his beliefs actually are!!! plenty of people say they are "Conservative" but that doesn't mean they believe in EVERYTHING the conservative party have to say or that they agree with everything they've ever done in the same way that just because you're a Muslim it doesn't mean you're a terrorist, simply saying you agree with and admire some of the things Mussolini believed in no way means you agree with the extermination of races and have some megalomaniacal desire to take over the world at the expense of every minority on the planet....a lot of fuss over literally nothing if you ask me, tabloid extremism and knee jerk reactions due to ignorance of the actual facts to the nth degree!
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mt
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Post by mt on Apr 4, 2013 10:01:54 GMT
because the law says it is mt So, let me get this right...If a club owner fire a manager and he is looking for a replacement, he would have been breaking the law if he didn`t consider to employ a fascist? If that`s the case, I have a very good solution: It`s just for him to shut his mouth about the reasons why he don`t want to employ a fascist and just go out in public and tell that "his personality doesn`t fit in with the club values", "We found a better man for the job that we feel has the right skills to turn everything around ", "He don`t have enough experience at this level". He doesn`t have to mention the word "fascism" at all. As an owner of a company/club you want your buisness to be sucsessfull and to earn a lot of money. If that mean hiring a self-declared fascist, then I guess that a lot of owners would have give it a go, but I believe that most owners don`t want to put a person in a high-profiled position that has been spoken well about a clearly misanthropic ideology and about Mussolini. I think it`s a good thing that people who speaks well about an extreme ideology will have some misfortune in life themselves. Maybe that could help them learn more about what their ideas could do to others?
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Post by nik80 on Apr 4, 2013 10:27:07 GMT
If I was a club owner and I should employ a new manager, I wouldn`t even consider Di Canio. He disqualified himself the way he expressed his opinions in public over the years. I would rather try to find people with other values and, of course, knowledge. How can that be illegal? because the law says it is mt yes, even if you publically state your political views it IS still legally counted as sensitive personal data. if you found a different reason as to why he's not suitable for the job so didn't hire them then fine (as a lot of emplyers do try to do to get around the issue) but if you refuse to hire because of his political beliefs (unless the job is a politically based one in which case it would be reasonable) then you are breaking the law...end of whether you personally agree with it or don't see the sense is, as i said before, completely irrelevant! (and if you're unaware of this then i hope for your sake that you don't do the hiring and firing at your place!!) there are certain instances where it is justified not to hire certain people as i explained before, however if those reasons do NOT hinder their ability to carry out their day to day tasks (and that is solely THEIR day to day tasks and DOES NOT take into account the PR reputation of the company)then you cannot refuse to hire them simply because of these reasons; if you do so then it is discrimination full stop whether that be against disability, religious views, political idealogy, sexuality etc. staggering that so many people on this thread seem to think it fine to discriminate due to political beliefs (which is EXACTLY what many are suggesting should be done) but not to discriminate against other walks of life as that would just be wrong....the law is there for EVERYONE to protect EVERYONE against discrimnation and NOT just the people who's political beliefs you agree with!!! personally i found Thatcher's political views to be abhorrent and to the detriment of the majority of the British public but i wouldn't be able to refuse her a job as an admin clerk because of it as her beliefs would have no impact on her ability to do that job..the PR for the company is completely irrelevant in law! i just don't see the logic...."We hate fascists because they discrimnate against certain sections of society but it's absolutely fine for me to discriminate against them because i don't agree with them"..it doesn't work like in real life i'm afraid. we ALL have different political standpoints and that's what makes human beings what they are; the ability to make conscious decisions based upon their own experiences, knowledge and moral ideaology..we won't always agree on everything but that won't necessarily affect your ability to carry out a certain role in life! the main problem you seem to have mt is that you have completely ignored what many people have told you several times on this thread.....Italian fascism is NOT Nazism, it did not advocate the extermination of particular races (until they were forced to hand over jews to the Germans by Hitler) and did not seek to destroy everyone in their path to achieve world domination!!!!!!!!! Italian Fascism and Nazism are two entirely seperate things!!!!! Mussolini actually argued that the reason for his fascist uprising was to destroy the "Backwardness of the right wing" (who believed only the superior in society should rule) and the "Destructive forces of the left" (who believed that anyone had the right to rule society)...he took the reigns (like Hitler in Germany) at a very uncertain time when the country was spiralling downwards economically and wanted a change to the two perceived notions and Italian fascism was an attempt to combine the two notions and find a middle ground simply to further the influence of Italy in the world at large and try to regain some economic stability (which Hitler also did in Germany and was probably the most successful Chancellor Germany have ever had, taking them from being an extremely poor country with massive unemployment, homelessness and poverty...before he went a bit mad he was actually extremely well respected as a politician globally for what he did to turn Germany around in the late 20s and early 30s) every political standpoint has fanatics and extremists who DO take things way too far and their beliefs start to blur because of this but as it stands, all di Canio is guilty of is saying he admired some of Mussolini's beliefs (which you will find, millions of Italians also do in the same way millions of Germans admired Hitler before he went potty!) simply because Mussolini wanted to try to get Italy back on track and achieved this! whether you agree with him or not is simply something you CANNOT say unless you have a knowledge of what Mussolini believed, what he did, how he did it and what exactly it is that Di Canio admires about him. simply stating "I don't like Di Canio because he says he's fascist and fascism is bad" is just complete ognorance in my opinion...you haven't looked into fascism (specfically Italian fascism) and have no idea of what Di Canio's personal views are, you've simply lumped all fascism into "That's the Nazi's right? well they killed shitloads of people..that's all i need to know!" and that is ridiculously sweeping and generalising statement that massively fails to actually look at the facts. That's a great post but totally wasted on the people who really would benefit from appreciating just a fraction of it. People don't want to differentiate and are equally opposed to seeing how their own narrow minded views could also be considered more similar to the thing they so vehemently despise than would sit comfortably with them It's just not worth trying to force the debate with this, interesting though. I'm not calling anyone a Nazi or fascist by the way
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Post by Deleted on Apr 4, 2013 10:27:43 GMT
mt like i said before do you actually KNOW what Di Canio believes or simply presumed that becuase he said he's a fascist he is therefore a scumbag who wants to kill jews, gays and people with disability?
my guess is the latter given that he hasn't actually said what his explicit views are...like i said earlier if someone said he was a conservative would you automatically presume they therefore agree with EVERYTHING the consrevative party says or does? no but in this case you seem more than happy to just lump people into a particular group whilst obviously having no knowledge of the facts, the history of fascism, what Italian fascism even is or any clue what parts Di Canio does or doesn't believe in!! that sir is plain ignorance on your part and judging someone purely based on a collective idea you have have come up with whilst excluding all facts...basically exactly what it is you think Di Canio stands for. hypocritical? not much!!!
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mt
Youth Player
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Post by mt on Apr 4, 2013 10:29:29 GMT
the main problem you seem to have mt is that you have completely ignored what many people have told you several times on this thread.....Italian fascism is NOT Nazism, it did not advocate the extermination of particular races (until they were forced to hand over jews to the Germans by Hitler) and did not seek to destroy everyone in their path to achieve world domination!!!!!!!!! Italian Fascism and Nazism are two entirely seperate things!!!!! I haven`t written the word "Nazism" once in this thread...before now. Stop creating Straw Man-arguments. Please.
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Post by countofmontecristo on Apr 4, 2013 10:53:08 GMT
.......so in order to ptotect freedom - you advocate denying Di Canio his ......errrm FREEDOM! (in this case freedom to gain employment). Brilliant. You do understand that under a fascist regime you would have NO freedom don't you? Why on earth would you support a self confessed fascist? I don't support him. I support his right to a (legal) political opinion without fear of reprisal. The alternative is to say that he has no right to a political opinion that I don't agree with, and THAT sounds like Fascism.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 4, 2013 11:00:16 GMT
straw man arguments mt???????
you may not have mentioned Nazism so far but it is very obvious from your previous posts (depsite people actually trying to tell you what fascism actually is and you constanylu ignoring the facts!!) that you equate fascism to be the same thing as what Hitler did in the second world war. you seem to view it as something that automatically is evil (despite it simply being an political belief system so the same as democracy, commnuism, marxism etc.) and think therefore it is always despicable!
you obviously have little to no grasp on the facts of what it is (specifically Italian fascism) yet feel you have the right to deny people of employment due to a belief system you have no knowledge of?????
ok you may not have mentioned Nazism but the rest of the post stands!! if you want to have such vehement beleifs about people and their personal ideas that you do then i suggest you actually do them the courtesy of actually trying to understand what it is they actually believe in. all you have done is take a belief system you clearly don't know much about but decided it is evil based on the tabloid papers and the bits you've heard of in relation to the second world war!
like i said earlier (although you'll ignore it as you have done with EVERY post so far where people have tried to explain the FACTS to you!) just because some people blow things up in the name if Islam do you therefore believe all Muslims are evil terrorists or is it a possibility that the belief system itself isn't to blame but a case of a minority of nutters spoiling the name of the ideaology by their specific actions?
if you want to start a thread stating they should not be allowed to take certain jobs then i think most people would bloody well expect you to actually know what it is that you're talking about and, if not, then take some notice of the facts you're being given! all you've done is decide it's wrong despite not knowing anything about it because the media have told you to believe fascism in all it's forms is wrong and then conclude people therefore shouldn't be accorded the same rights as everyone else is because of that. as i said, it's complete ignorance on your part and just a shame you have such a blinkered view about things you have no knowledge of so will just lump all into one term and judge them all the same because of it......as many have pointed out that IS a trait of most fascist regimes and therefore shows your complete hypocrisy!!!
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Post by foster on Apr 4, 2013 11:13:24 GMT
straw man arguments mt??????? you may not have mentioned Nazism so far but it is very obvious from your previous posts (depsite people actually trying to tell you what fascism actually is and you constanylu ignoring the facts!!) that you equate fascism to be the same thing as what Hitler did in the second world war. you seem to view it as something that automatically is evil (despite it simply being an political belief system so the same as democracy, commnuism, marxism etc.) and think therefore it is always despicable! you obviously have little to no grasp on the facts of what it is (specifically Italian fascism) yet feel you have the right to deny people of employment due to a belief system you have no knowledge of????? ok you may not have mentioned Nazism but the rest of the post stands!! if you want to have such vehement beleifs about people and their personal ideas that you do then i suggest you actually do them the courtesy of actually trying to understand what it is they actually believe in. all you have done is take a belief system you clearly don't know much about but decided it is evil based on the tabloid papers and the bits you've heard of in relation to the second world war! like i said earlier (although you'll ignore it as you have done with EVERY post so far where people have tried to explain the FACTS to you!) just because some people blow things up in the name if Islam do you therefore believe all Muslims are evil terrorists or is it a possibility that the belief system itself isn't to blame but a case of a minority of nutters spoiling the name of the ideaology by their specific actions? if you want to start a thread stating they should not be allowed to take certain jobs then i think most people would bloody well expect you to actually know what it is that you're talking about and, if not, then take some notice of the facts you're being given! all you've done is decide it's wrong despite not knowing anything about it because the media have told you to believe fascism in all it's forms is wrong and then conclude people therefore shouldn't be accorded the same rights as everyone else is because of that. as i said, it's complete ignorance on your part and just a shame you have such a blinkered view about things you have no knowledge of so will just lump all into one term and judge them all the same because of it......as many have pointed out that IS a trait of most fascist regimes and therefore shows your complete hypocrisy!!!
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mt
Youth Player
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Post by mt on Apr 4, 2013 11:58:25 GMT
straw man arguments mt??????? you may not have mentioned Nazism so far but it is very obvious from your previous posts (depsite people actually trying to tell you what fascism actually is and you constanylu ignoring the facts!!) that you equate fascism to be the same thing as what Hitler did in the second world war. you seem to view it as something that automatically is evil (despite it simply being an political belief system so the same as democracy, commnuism, marxism etc.) and think therefore it is always despicable! you obviously have little to no grasp on the facts of what it is (specifically Italian fascism) yet feel you have the right to deny people of employment due to a belief system you have no knowledge of????? ok you may not have mentioned Nazism but the rest of the post stands!! if you want to have such vehement beleifs about people and their personal ideas that you do then i suggest you actually do them the courtesy of actually trying to understand what it is they actually believe in. all you have done is take a belief system you clearly don't know much about but decided it is evil based on the tabloid papers and the bits you've heard of in relation to the second world war! like i said earlier (although you'll ignore it as you have done with EVERY post so far where people have tried to explain the FACTS to you!) just because some people blow things up in the name if Islam do you therefore believe all Muslims are evil terrorists or is it a possibility that the belief system itself isn't to blame but a case of a minority of nutters spoiling the name of the ideaology by their specific actions? if you want to start a thread stating they should not be allowed to take certain jobs then i think most people would bloody well expect you to actually know what it is that you're talking about and, if not, then take some notice of the facts you're being given! all you've done is decide it's wrong despite not knowing anything about it because the media have told you to believe fascism in all it's forms is wrong and then conclude people therefore shouldn't be accorded the same rights as everyone else is because of that. as i said, it's complete ignorance on your part and just a shame you have such a blinkered view about things you have no knowledge of so will just lump all into one term and judge them all the same because of it......as many have pointed out that IS a trait of most fascist regimes and therefore shows your complete hypocrisy!!! How do you know that I know nothing about fascism? I can`t stand an ideology that are totalitarian and doesn`t accept the principles of parlamentarism. Italian fascism? What part of it you want to have a chat about? The one that they used violence to achieve their goals? Killing people who were organized in worker-unions? The coup in 1922 when Mussolini marched to Rome? Or when he introduced a new version of "Freedom of speech" in 1925? Or do you mean that I have misunderstood something about the pilosopher Julius Evola`s thougths about italian fascism ? You seems to be a little bit biased, lovechild...and angry too. And that`s not a very good combination...
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mt
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Post by mt on Apr 4, 2013 12:15:40 GMT
How do you know that I know nothing about fascism? I can`t stand an ideology that are totalitarian and doesn`t accept the principles of parlamentarism. Italian fascism? What part of it you want to have a chat about? The one that they used violence to achieve their goals? Killing people who were organized in worker-unions? The coup in 1922 when Mussolini marched to Rome? Or when he introduced a new version of "Freedom of speech" in 1925? Or do you mean that I have misunderstood something about the pilosopher Julius Evola`s thougths about italian fascism ? You seems to be a little bit biased, lovechild...and angry too. And that`s not a very good combination... Possibly the most boring debate ever. I know, but if you try to tell people that 2+2=4, you could bet a pretty big amount of money on that it would always be some individuals that would have opposed to it... :-)
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Post by Deleted on Apr 4, 2013 12:22:22 GMT
straw man arguments mt??????? you may not have mentioned Nazism so far but it is very obvious from your previous posts (depsite people actually trying to tell you what fascism actually is and you constanylu ignoring the facts!!) that you equate fascism to be the same thing as what Hitler did in the second world war. you seem to view it as something that automatically is evil (despite it simply being an political belief system so the same as democracy, commnuism, marxism etc.) and think therefore it is always despicable! you obviously have little to no grasp on the facts of what it is (specifically Italian fascism) yet feel you have the right to deny people of employment due to a belief system you have no knowledge of????? ok you may not have mentioned Nazism but the rest of the post stands!! if you want to have such vehement beleifs about people and their personal ideas that you do then i suggest you actually do them the courtesy of actually trying to understand what it is they actually believe in. all you have done is take a belief system you clearly don't know much about but decided it is evil based on the tabloid papers and the bits you've heard of in relation to the second world war! like i said earlier (although you'll ignore it as you have done with EVERY post so far where people have tried to explain the FACTS to you!) just because some people blow things up in the name if Islam do you therefore believe all Muslims are evil terrorists or is it a possibility that the belief system itself isn't to blame but a case of a minority of nutters spoiling the name of the ideaology by their specific actions? if you want to start a thread stating they should not be allowed to take certain jobs then i think most people would bloody well expect you to actually know what it is that you're talking about and, if not, then take some notice of the facts you're being given! all you've done is decide it's wrong despite not knowing anything about it because the media have told you to believe fascism in all it's forms is wrong and then conclude people therefore shouldn't be accorded the same rights as everyone else is because of that. as i said, it's complete ignorance on your part and just a shame you have such a blinkered view about things you have no knowledge of so will just lump all into one term and judge them all the same because of it......as many have pointed out that IS a trait of most fascist regimes and therefore shows your complete hypocrisy!!! How do you know that I know nothing about fascism? I can`t stand an ideology that are totalitarian and doesn`t accept the principles of parlamentarism. Italian fascism? What part of it you want to have a chat about? The one that they used violence to achieve their goals? Killing people who were organized in worker-unions? The coup in 1922 when Mussolini marched to Rome? Or when he introduced a new version of "Freedom of speech" in 1925? Or do you mean that I have misunderstood something about the pilosopher Julius Evola`s thougths about italian fascism ? You seems to be a little bit biased, lovechild...and angry too. And that`s not a very good combination... i'm guessing you don't know much about fascism due to the posts you've been making so far..they indicate nothing but a massive generalisation based on a Wikipedia search....i presume you also think Fergie should be banned from footbal management also, after all he's a Chrsitian and they did all they possibly could to exterminate Muslims and Jews alike during the Crusades (or does that bit not count cos it kinda makes a farce of your stance?) how do i seem biased exactly???? i simply don't like people like yourself presuming you know EXACTLY what Di Canio said when he said he admires some of the thing Mussolini believed and therefore deciding he shouldn't be allowed a job managing a football club (although i didn't see as many people up in arms when it wasn't a fashionable tabloid story!) it's a hell of a decision for you to come to when you know the square root of f@*k all about Di Canio's personal beliefs and extremely ignorant of you to presume he is therefore some fascist activist that agrees with all Mussolini did and stood for! like i said, if you want to start a thread like this then you'd bloody well better know EXACTLY what Di Canio thinks or you can kind of expect people to think you're just being a tabloid reading, knee jerker of the worst order who simply likes to shove people into little envelopes and say "We'll have none of that here thanks very much!"
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Post by Deleted on Apr 4, 2013 12:25:06 GMT
Possibly the most boring debate ever. I know, but if you try to tell people that 2+2=4, you could bet a pretty big amount of money on that it would always be some individuals that would have opposed to it... :-) or also if you get people that don't like fascist bigots cos they prefer to be bigotted themselves
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Post by ColonelMustard on Apr 4, 2013 12:50:11 GMT
He now claims he does not "support the ideology of fascism" anyway so he is distancing himself from it, whether it's right or wrong. A bold move with the British press scenting blood.
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mt
Youth Player
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Post by mt on Apr 4, 2013 13:50:14 GMT
How do you know that I know nothing about fascism? I can`t stand an ideology that are totalitarian and doesn`t accept the principles of parlamentarism. Italian fascism? What part of it you want to have a chat about? The one that they used violence to achieve their goals? Killing people who were organized in worker-unions? The coup in 1922 when Mussolini marched to Rome? Or when he introduced a new version of "Freedom of speech" in 1925? Or do you mean that I have misunderstood something about the pilosopher Julius Evola`s thougths about italian fascism ? You seems to be a little bit biased, lovechild...and angry too. And that`s not a very good combination... i'm guessing you don't know much about fascism due to the posts you've been making so far..they indicate nothing but a massive generalisation based on a Wikipedia search....i presume you also think Fergie should be banned from footbal management also, after all he's a Chrsitian and they did all they possibly could to exterminate Muslims and Jews alike during the Crusades (or does that bit not count cos it kinda makes a farce of your stance?) how do i seem biased exactly???? i simply don't like people like yourself presuming you know EXACTLY what Di Canio said when he said he admires some of the thing Mussolini believed and therefore deciding he shouldn't be allowed a job managing a football club (although i didn't see as many people up in arms when it wasn't a fashionable tabloid story!) it's a hell of a decision for you to come to when you know the square root of f@*k all about Di Canio's personal beliefs and extremely ignorant of you to presume he is therefore some fascist activist that agrees with all Mussolini did and stood for! like i said, if you want to start a thread like this then you'd bloody well better know EXACTLY what Di Canio thinks or you can kind of expect people to think you're just being a tabloid reading, knee jerker of the worst order who simply likes to shove people into little envelopes and say "We'll have none of that here thanks very much!" You seem to be a person with a lot of introspection... The differences between for example religion and fascism is that the ideas in fascism is basically misantrophic. In religion( and also other political ideologys ) it is people who are misconducting the ideas. I don`t care much whatever your opinions are about me, or that you make false accusations about my knowledge and wiews on the subject. Just keep on if it`s amuses you. And if Di Canio did say: "I`m a fascist and I admire Mussolini", why didn`t he come out in public years ago to clearify what he meant by such a statement? He had a lot of oppertunities to do so. It`s maybe difficult for you to understand, but it doesn`t work that way that you can just pick a few aspects from an ideology, leave behind the bad things and go out in public and say: I`m a fascist! You have to look at it in a bigger picture. At least if you want to gain some credibility.
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Post by foster on Apr 4, 2013 13:53:54 GMT
i'm guessing you don't know much about fascism due to the posts you've been making so far..they indicate nothing but a massive generalisation based on a Wikipedia search....i presume you also think Fergie should be banned from footbal management also, after all he's a Chrsitian and they did all they possibly could to exterminate Muslims and Jews alike during the Crusades (or does that bit not count cos it kinda makes a farce of your stance?) how do i seem biased exactly???? i simply don't like people like yourself presuming you know EXACTLY what Di Canio said when he said he admires some of the thing Mussolini believed and therefore deciding he shouldn't be allowed a job managing a football club (although i didn't see as many people up in arms when it wasn't a fashionable tabloid story!) it's a hell of a decision for you to come to when you know the square root of f@*k all about Di Canio's personal beliefs and extremely ignorant of you to presume he is therefore some fascist activist that agrees with all Mussolini did and stood for! like i said, if you want to start a thread like this then you'd bloody well better know EXACTLY what Di Canio thinks or you can kind of expect people to think you're just being a tabloid reading, knee jerker of the worst order who simply likes to shove people into little envelopes and say "We'll have none of that here thanks very much!" You seem to be a person with a lot of introspection... The differences between for example religion and fascism is that the ideas in fascism is basically misantrophic. In religion( and also other political ideologys ) it is people who are misconducting the ideas. I don`t care much whatever your opinions are about me, or that you make false accusations about my knowledge and wiews on the subject. Just keep on if it`s amuses you. And if Di Canio did say: "I`m a fascist and I admire Mussolini", why didn`t he come out in public years ago to clearify what he meant by such a statement? He had a lot of oppertunities to do so. It`s maybe difficult for you to understand, but it doesn`t work that way that you can just pick a few aspects from an ideology, leave behind the bad things and go out in public and say: I`m a fascist! You have to look at it in a bigger picture. At least if you want to gain some credibility. Yeah Mick!
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Post by Deleted on Apr 4, 2013 14:50:16 GMT
mt, no offence mate but the idea that if you say you admire "Some" of the things Mussolini believed (again, they are the facts you feel free to misconstrue or misquote as you wish mate as "I`m a fascist and I admire Mussolini" isn't what he said...he actually said "basically a very principled, ethical individual" "deeply misunderstood".)in no way means you believe EVERYTHING he stood for (not sure how many times i have to say that...as i have said twice already which, again you ignored, does someone who votes or says they are a conservative therefore agree with EVERYTHING that party promotes or advocates? of course it doesn't...i think you would be very hard pressed to find ANY supporter of any political party that 100% agrees with everything that party advocates) and it's completely ludicrous to state it does.
i have no particular problem with you other than the fact that so far all you have demonstrated is 1) an inability to actually read people's posts and the FACTS they give you 2) misquote and misrepresent what others (including Di Canio) have said 3) tried to somehow decide that your personal opinions on what people SHOULD mean (in your opinion) regarding their political beliefs if they are stating them 4) decided that Di Canio has for some reason got to justify what he said and why he said it despite it being perfectly legal in this country and irrelevant to the work he is being asked to carry out
i really really fail to see how i can make it any clearer to you mt...Di Canio DOESN'T have to further explain himself to you, me or anyone else full stop! he is not committing ANY crime whatsoever, it's simply a case of you finding his political views as being repugnant. now, whilst you are free to have those opinions and for what it's worth, although it has sod all to do with you (but as you seem to be trying to play the "You seem to have issues/you seem angry" childish card..which usually is a last resort and not really anything of any kind of substance in any kind of discussion and far more likely to be found being spouted by little kids to be honest) i will tell you anyway, i also disagree with fascism but that in no way means i have any right whatsoever to enforce my opinions on anyone else and certainly not decide what career path they should be allowed to follow simply because i don't like it!
the reason for my apparent "anger" mt is your complete and utter refusal to look at valid posts people have made (which, earlier on, were put in a far less angry way but you simply ignored them or brushed them under the carpet) and your insistence on misquoting people and selectively picking bits out.
some people DO look at the bigger picture when considering politics however most don't..they simply affiliate themselves to a political party due to class, their environment, tradition, where they live etc. and the impact it will have on them personally.if you genuinely believe that even in this country people vote because of how they think it will benefit their fellow man then i think you're extremely naive!
the most abiding fact however is that regardless of what you think and whether you like it or not, our government has set down laws to prohibit being discriminated against in terms of employment simply because of their political beliefs. maybe you should write to parliament telling them how ridiculous they are too as i'm sure they would like the patronising and condescending tone you seem to enjoy taking with others that disagree with you, you can also label them as biased and angry simply because they don't think you're right and tell them they should ignore all their facts and ideas of what "Freedom of speech" means and that that should only apply to people you agree with eh? see how you get on, be sure to let us all know!
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Post by slother on Apr 4, 2013 14:52:38 GMT
Can we get back to making puns?
When it comes to preparation do you think Di Canio is the type to scrutinise over hours and hours of footage or do you think he just watches the sieg heilights?
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Post by foster on Apr 4, 2013 14:57:05 GMT
Not bad fuehrer first attempt.
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mt
Youth Player
Posts: 355
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Post by mt on Apr 4, 2013 17:28:19 GMT
What kind of "facts" have I ignored in this thread, lovechild? Ok, I admit that I maybe ignored some of your "facts", but that's about it. I asked a simple question in the opening post how people would react to have an self-declared fascist as a manager in a footballclub. You seem to have no problem if that would happen. I believe that a manager also should bring some values to the club and I look at that as a big part of his task. Di Canio expressed his wiews in public and not in the pub or in his own home. He wants to work in a buisness that has a lot of different "customers" with different background, age, sex, race, nationality, but you still expect a club owner to don't care about his expressed, and well known, political extremism? I find that a little bit naive, mate.
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Post by iglugluk on Apr 5, 2013 11:49:53 GMT
maybe you need to research the definition of the word discrimination before writing that...simplistic piece of logic. Discrimination Discrimination is the prejudicial and/or distinguishing treatment of an individual based on their actual or perceived membership in a certain group or category, "in a way that is worse than the way people are usually treated. seems to sum it up nicely.....whats your point iglugluk?? My point is Count, that there is a more relevant definition here, imo i.e. "the ability to judge what is of high quality; good judgement or taste:those who could afford to buy showed little taste or discrimination." Having the ability to discriminate between good and bad is an essential part of living effectively, is it not? So therefore discrimination can represent a positive quality too. As such my opinion about DiCanio is based on well known information about him that is in the public domain......information that indicates him to be at best confused and at worst ethically compromised. But hey if you want to defend a fascist Mussolini sympathiser you go right ahead.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 5, 2013 12:17:53 GMT
What kind of "facts" have I ignored in this thread, lovechild? Ok, I admit that I maybe ignored some of your "facts", but that's about it. Brilliant! I've not ingnored anything apart from the stuff I've ignored!
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mt
Youth Player
Posts: 355
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Post by mt on Apr 5, 2013 14:08:28 GMT
What kind of "facts" have I ignored in this thread, lovechild? Ok, I admit that I maybe ignored some of your "facts", but that's about it. Brilliant! I've not ingnored anything apart from the stuff I've ignored! "An expert is someone who has succeeded in making decisions and judgements simpler through knowing what to pay attention to and what to ignore." -Edward De Bono
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jinx
Spectator
Posts: 15
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Post by jinx on Apr 5, 2013 14:34:38 GMT
Not ignored anything apart from the bits you have ignored....hmmm more chance of catching fish piss or knitting fog mmlc than explaining the difference between fact and opinion to this cretin. Is mt an abbreviation for majorly thick perhaps...? Just saying
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Post by davejohnno1 on Apr 5, 2013 14:40:41 GMT
MT...Tony Pulis is a staunch catholic and you couldn't wish to associate with a more abhorrent, corrupt religion.
Does that mean Tony Pulis should never have been allowed near the club? Afterall, he openly supports and admits to being a staunch catholic, a religion which makes abusing young children seem normal?
You asked a question...How would you react if....
I wouldn't react at all. If Di Canio rocked up as our manager, I really wouldn't give a shit what he believed it to be honest, particularly in this respect as we don't know an awful lot about what he believes in aside from the fact that he sympathised in someway with Mussolini and SOME of his beliefs. TP sympathises with the beliefs of the Catholic Church but I doubt he approves of child abuse!
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Post by countofmontecristo on Apr 5, 2013 14:44:11 GMT
Discrimination Discrimination is the prejudicial and/or distinguishing treatment of an individual based on their actual or perceived membership in a certain group or category, "in a way that is worse than the way people are usually treated. seems to sum it up nicely.....whats your point iglugluk?? My point is Count, that there is a more relevant definition here, imo i.e. "the ability to judge what is of high quality; good judgement or taste:those who could afford to buy showed little taste or discrimination." Having the ability to discriminate between good and bad is an essential part of living effectively, is it not? So therefore discrimination can represent a positive quality too. As such my opinion about DiCanio is based on well known information about him that is in the public domain......information that indicates him to be at best confused and at worst ethically compromised. But hey if you want to defend a fascist Mussolini sympathiser you go right ahead. I'll refer you to this reply I gave to Huddy yesterday "I don't support him. I support his right to a (legal) political opinion without fear of reprisal. The alternative is to say that he has no right to a political opinion that I don't agree with, and THAT sounds like Fascism." All the points you raise have been dealt with ad-infinitum if you read through the thread (fookin tough going in places though!)
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Post by philm87 on Apr 5, 2013 15:11:18 GMT
There are good arguments on both sides. At least Stokies can have a more sophisticated debate than what was going on on Blunderland's MB last time I checked.
Mick, for someone who is so concerned with other people not paying attention to FACTS!! your history is wildly inaccurate.
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