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Post by countofmontecristo on Apr 2, 2013 19:44:10 GMT
Lakeland
In a word... Yes! In the same way that christian guesthouse owners are not allowed to discriminate against gay couples even though they disapprove of their way of life and are genuinely offended by them sleeping together under their roof. Equality for all? Or just for those that you agree with?
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Post by dime on Apr 2, 2013 19:45:27 GMT
Lakeland I agree with parts of that. But YOU would not employ him due to his political beliefs. Would you be comfortable with someone being denied employment due to their socialist beliefs? Would the media be so interested if he had espoused socialist beliefs in the past? I suppose my point is that there is an agenda at work here and it is rank hipocrisy for someone to be hounded for their political beliefs by those that purport to support democracy. So, if I were a Rabbi, you'd say I should not be able to refuse to employ Di Canio (on the grounds of his fascism) if he applied for a job at my synagogue because otherwise I would be denying him employment because of his political beliefs? Presumably the same would be true if I were the owner of Maccabi Tel Aviv or even Spurs? Fascist does not equal Nazi, or even anti-semitic, or racist! In fact Mussolini, the man he claims to admire was not anti-semitic, until he succumbed to severe pressure from Hitler.
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Post by countofmontecristo on Apr 2, 2013 19:54:13 GMT
We've shot off at a tangent here Lakeland - I think it's fair to say we disagree and probably best to draw a line under it. I've been a stalker on here for quite a while and this is the first time I've been moved to actually post as I feel strongly on the subject.....but just to clarify - no, I wouldn't have Di Canio at Stoke for footballing reasons but would not discount any potential candidate due to their politics..... the bottom line for me is 'who is the best man for the job?'.
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Post by countofmontecristo on Apr 2, 2013 19:55:16 GMT
We've shot off at a tangent here Lakeland - I think it's fair to say we disagree and probably best to draw a line under it. I've been a stalker on here for quite a while and this is the first time I've been moved to actually post as I feel strongly on the subject.....but just to clarify - no, I wouldn't have Di Canio at Stoke for footballing reasons but would not discount any potential candidate due to their politics..... the bottom line for me is 'who is the best man for the job?'.
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Post by nik80 on Apr 2, 2013 20:58:57 GMT
A silly thread, facism is quite a complex system of government, perhapswhen everone gets fed up of calling each other nams they may wish to read up on the subject and THEN air knowledgeable views. "Historians, political scientists and other scholars have long debated the exact nature of fascism.[19] Each form of fascism is distinct, leaving many definitions too wide or narrow.[20][21] Roger Griffin describes fascism as "a genus of political ideology whose mythic core in its various permutations is a palingenetic form of populist ultranationalism".[22] Griffin describes the ideology as having three core components: "(i) the rebirth myth, (ii) populist ultra-nationalism and (iii) the myth of decadence".[23] Fascism is "a genuinely revolutionary, trans-class form of anti-liberal, and in the last analysis, anti-conservative nationalism" built on a complex range of theoretical and cultural influences. He distinguishes an inter-war period in which it manifested itself in elite-led but populist "armed party" politics opposing socialism and liberalism and promising radical politics to rescue the nation from decadence " en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FascismNot only this, lots of people find it nigh on impossible to differentiate between Italian fascism and Nazism and I include our beloved media in that. Makes for a very confused melting pot of ideas on what Paulo Di Canio actually stands for. I've read plenty on the matter by the way
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Post by nik80 on Apr 2, 2013 21:13:46 GMT
So, if I were a Rabbi, you'd say I should not be able to refuse to employ Di Canio (on the grounds of his fascism) if he applied for a job at my synagogue because otherwise I would be denying him employment because of his political beliefs? Presumably the same would be true if I were the owner of Maccabi Tel Aviv or even Spurs? Fascist does not equal Nazi, or even anti-semitic, or racist! In fact Mussolini, the man he claims to admire was not anti-semitic, until he succumbed to severe pressure from Hitler. well said dude Mussolini's concerns were primarily for Italy, a young nation that was struggling to find a strong national identity. Yes he wanted an empire, he wanted to make Italy a great nation (sound familiar?) Mussolini never had a desire to create a 'master race' and all that shit with Eugenics and Italy didn't directly have an anti-semitic domestic or foreign policy This is bollocks now, the man is dead, Di Canio's got the Sunderland job and we still can't buy a bloody goal
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Post by Lakeland Potter on Apr 2, 2013 21:22:10 GMT
Lakeland In a word... Yes! In the same way that christian guesthouse owners are not allowed to discriminate against gay couples even though they disapprove of their way of life and are genuinely offended by them sleeping together under their roof. Equality for all? Or just for those that you agree with? I was under the impression that our law forbade discrimination on the grounds of race, creed, colour, gender (in most cases) or sexual orientation. Fascism is a political belief not a creed. I could be wrong of course......
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Post by ColonelMustard on Apr 2, 2013 21:31:36 GMT
Lakeland I agree with parts of that. But YOU would not employ him due to his political beliefs. Would you be comfortable with someone being denied employment due to their socialist beliefs? Would the media be so interested if he had espoused socialist beliefs in the past? I suppose my point is that there is an agenda at work here and it is rank hipocrisy for someone to be hounded for their political beliefs by those that purport to support democracy. Because I am not a fascist I think he, like anyone else, has every right to vote for whoever he wants and apply for any jobs he wants - and I have every right to think he's a cunt and to express my displeasure should he get the Stoke job. But not if he becomes prime minister. Simples.
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Post by countofmontecristo on Apr 2, 2013 21:50:16 GMT
Lakeland In a word... Yes! In the same way that christian guesthouse owners are not allowed to discriminate against gay couples even though they disapprove of their way of life and are genuinely offended by them sleeping together under their roof. Equality for all? Or just for those that you agree with? I was under the impression that our law forbade discrimination on the grounds of race, creed, colour, gender (in most cases) or sexual orientation. Fascism is a political belief not a creed. I could be wrong of course...... t I'm sure you're correct.... but that shouldn't prevent us from forming our own opinions of what's right and wrong. Anyway - as stated above, I think it's time to draw a line under the subject...... I'm new to this and my missus thinks I must be on a dating site!!
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Post by countofmontecristo on Apr 2, 2013 21:51:30 GMT
Lakeland I agree with parts of that. But YOU would not employ him due to his political beliefs. Would you be comfortable with someone being denied employment due to their socialist beliefs? Would the media be so interested if he had espoused socialist beliefs in the past? I suppose my point is that there is an agenda at work here and it is rank hipocrisy for someone to be hounded for their political beliefs by those that purport to support democracy. Because I am not a fascist I think he, like anyone else, has every right to vote for whoever he wants and apply for any jobs he wants - and I have every right to think he's a cunt and to express my displeasure should he get the Stoke job. But not if he becomes prime minister. Simples. I can live with that!
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Post by spitthedog on Apr 2, 2013 22:01:43 GMT
His views are massively misinterepreted imo. Hes actively supported anti-racism campaigns on numerous occasions and stated that it wasnt necessarily the actions of Mussolini that he supported, but rather that he felt he was "deeply misunderstood". Hes another guy who left wing happy clapping champagne socialist bastards can take a cheap shot at. I'd be delighted if we sacked Pulis and brought in someone of Di Canio's ability. So you have to be a 'left wing happy clapping champagne socialist bastard' to oppose Fascism? My grandad fought for this country for 5 years to oppose Fascism don't seem to remember him fitting that description. In the end its up to every individual to decide whether they can support a team with a person holding such beliefs as a manager. Personally I would withdraw my support. I don't expect to be abused because I hold such a view, being a person opposed to any kind of Fascism as I understand it.
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Post by scfcbiancorossi on Apr 2, 2013 22:10:50 GMT
His views are massively misinterepreted imo. Hes actively supported anti-racism campaigns on numerous occasions and stated that it wasnt necessarily the actions of Mussolini that he supported, but rather that he felt he was "deeply misunderstood". Hes another guy who left wing happy clapping champagne socialist bastards can take a cheap shot at. I'd be delighted if we sacked Pulis and brought in someone of Di Canio's ability. So you have to be a 'left wing happy clapping champagne socialist bastard' to oppose Fascism? My grandad fought for this country for 5 years to oppose Fascism don't seem to remember him fitting that description. So did mine. As far as I know..Paolo Di Canio has no intention of invading Europe and initiating another holocaust. I might be wrong and he might be planning it but i'd say its doubtful. I'd say that at a guess, he doesnt want to do or see anything of the sort and is just your average, friendly, but passionate family man who has right wing political views. There is nothing more too it. Read his comments re immigration etc and you will see that he is a far more rational man than the press (who have to make money by making good stories) are having you believe.
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Post by madnellie on Apr 2, 2013 22:10:56 GMT
Agree with the above, I would withdraw my support too.
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Post by spitthedog on Apr 2, 2013 22:59:00 GMT
So you have to be a 'left wing happy clapping champagne socialist bastard' to oppose Fascism? My grandad fought for this country for 5 years to oppose Fascism don't seem to remember him fitting that description. So did mine. As far as I know..Paolo Di Canio has no intention of invading Europe and initiating another holocaust. I might be wrong and he might be planning it but i'd say its doubtful. I'd say that at a guess, he doesnt want to do or see anything of the sort and is just your average, friendly, but passionate family man who has right wing political views. There is nothing more too it. Read his comments re immigration etc and you will see that he is a far more rational man than the press (who have to make money by making good stories) are having you believe. No sympathy for the Socialists who Mussolini had assassinated in Italy then? Mussolini did believe in a racial hierarchy (e.g.Africa) which is basically illegal in this country. The point is if you take a high profile job having made statements supporting such ideologies which have huge historical significance in this country, you have a responsibility to either explain or denounce such beliefs. Sunderland has many thousand young supporters, and it has to be questioned whether such beliefs should be accepted or tolerated in such an institution. It is not just a question of personal belief in this context.
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Post by philm87 on Apr 2, 2013 23:27:15 GMT
I wouldn't want him at Stoke because I think he's an arrogant fuck-head. Add to that his professed sympathies for one of the twentieth century's most notorious dictators, his obvious mental health issues, his rank hypocrisy and his provocative comments towards Swindon fans.. no thanks.
If people think Pulis is arrogant and condescending then I don't see how they could want this bloke anywhere near Stoke.
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Post by fortressbritannia on Apr 2, 2013 23:52:44 GMT
I wouldn't want him at Stoke because I think he's an arrogant fuck-head. Add to that his professed sympathies for one of the twentieth century's most notorious dictators, his obvious mental health issues, his rank hypocrisy and his provocative comments towards Swindon fans.. no thanks. If people think Pulis is arrogant and condescending then I don't see how they could want this bloke anywhere near Stoke. I agree, though he's entirely to his political beliefs I disagree on that bit. If people think TP has an ego I'd dread to think what they would think of Di Canio some of his antics at Swindon were cringe worthy.
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Post by hammered on Apr 3, 2013 0:11:52 GMT
If I'm honest I'm more concerned about him turning an expensively assembled Sunderland squad into a football team and making anyone in the bottom half a bit twitchy at least.
DiCanio's politics whether relevant cor otherwise seem to have overtaken the fact he's acquired one of the biggest jobs outside the top 6 - given the shit storm that's following media darling O'Neil you wonder whether he'll be given the chance to show his stuff or he'll get hounded out.
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Post by RipRoaringPotter on Apr 3, 2013 1:53:20 GMT
A quote from a man voted as Britain's greatest person:
"I do not agree that the dog in a manger has the final right to the manger even though he may have lain there for a very long time. I do not admit that right. I do not admit for instance, that a great wrong has been done to the Red Indians of America or the black people of Australia. I do not admit that a wrong has been done to these people by the fact that a stronger race, a higher-grade race, a more worldly wise race to put it that way, has come in and taken their place."
Is it possible we can laud Churchill, without agreeing with this statement, and various others he made of the same ilk? I believe it is.
If anyone has listened to the Football Weekly podcast, James Richardson believes it's a cultural thing. Italians tend to be able look back on a bad period in their history, and still acknowledge the good things from that bad period. In the same way that Di Canio has looked at a terrible Fascist, and seen some good aspects of his politics. In Britain we understandably want to tar that whole period as a dark time, with nothing good coming from it. While I like that Italian way of not seeing everything as black and white, I also understand our way of seeing it as nothing but a bad thing.
In uni I did a module on European Studies, generally the history of the European Union. We did a couple of weeks looking at how Hitler was the first modern-day politician, in the way he spoke and the way he showed himself to the German people. Undoubtedly it emphasised how clever Hitler was, and how intelligent he was to persuade the people of Germany that he was the man to take them forward. If you'd been unaware of WW2 [obviously impossible], you'd have come out of that lesson thinking he was a great political forward-thinker of our time. Was that part of my education particularly offensive? Not really, it was again merely accepting that his horrible, evil man was very good at some things.
On another point, it amazes me how the footballing world picks and chooses when to have a conscience. There are various people in the game who I would consider to have more stains on their copy book than Di Canio. Lee Hughes still plys his trade in professional football, and I've got no doubt Ched Evan will get another contract when he gets out. At Stoke we had Marvin Robinson shortly after he'd been convicted of headbutting and assaulting his girlfriend - we remained fairly silent when he signed. On a global level, the owner of Man City is the deputy prime minister of a country with questionable human rights records. If we want to get on the racism side of things, Stuart Pearce, currently the England U21 manager, has admitted racially abusing Paul Ince during his career. While I completely disagree with Di Canio's views, he has never, as far as I know, been even accused of being racist to another person.
We need to remember that the media has morals when it is allowed to have morals. Why wasn't this bought up when he was at Swindon? Becuase it was too small-time then. Would this be bought up if he was appointed manager of big club, who the media rely on to for breaking stories every day? No, it wouldn't. Sunderland is a nice club for the media to get their hands on, just big enough that it can be made into an issue but small enough that they won't lose potential big stories in the future.
His refusal to discuss it in the media is only going to flame the situation, and make sure it runs and runs. If he feels he was taken out of context in his original quote about Mussolini, then he should come out and tell us what he really believes, in his own words. Personally, I could see this being one of the most disastrous appointments of all time if he doesn't come out and openly speak about it soon. In the day and age of 24-hours rolling news, there's no way you can just ignore it and hope it goes away.
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Post by Huddysleftfoot on Apr 3, 2013 7:23:51 GMT
Lakeland In a word... Yes! In the same way that christian guesthouse owners are not allowed to discriminate against gay couples even though they disapprove of their way of life and are genuinely offended by them sleeping together under their roof. Equality for all? Or just for those that you agree with? I was under the impression that our law forbade discrimination on the grounds of race, creed, colour, gender (in most cases) or sexual orientation. Fascism is a political belief not a creed. I could be wrong of course...... Spot on Lakeland..fascists are also enemies of democracy and freedom. PDC admits to being a fascist so for me he shouldn't be getting employment at a club that has a multi cultural and racial squad and a proud local history of fighting and defeating fascism.
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Post by countofmontecristo on Apr 3, 2013 8:19:00 GMT
I was under the impression that our law forbade discrimination on the grounds of race, creed, colour, gender (in most cases) or sexual orientation. Fascism is a political belief not a creed. I could be wrong of course...... Spot on Lakeland..fascists are also enemies of democracy and freedom. PDC admits to being a fascist so for me he shouldn't be getting employment at a club that has a multi cultural and racial squad and a proud local history of fighting and defeating fascism. .......so in order to ptotect freedom - you advocate denying Di Canio his ......errrm FREEDOM! (in this case freedom to gain employment). Brilliant.
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mt
Youth Player
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Post by mt on Apr 3, 2013 8:21:27 GMT
How would you react if Stoke appointed a manager with the same political wiews as Di Canio has expressed for several years? Personally I couldn`t have stand to have a self-declared facist as a manager at the club. Even though you shouldn`t mix up political wiews with football or sport, it`s a limit for everything... How would you react if the owners of the club were gangsters? How would react if one the players had killed somebody say in a car crash thro been pissed up? How would you react if one of your players had been up on a sexual assault charge? The thing is football is now a sport that it full of murky characters. For a start it would be fine if they come out in public and show that they regret what they have done or said... But if they come out in public start bragging about that they have killed, are gangsters or like to sexual abuse other people or admire those who are, then it`s another story. Do you spot the difference? It`s not about left-wing/right-wing either. A lot of people on the political right-wing( conservatives etc. ) despise fascism because they know that it would damage their cause if they are to heavily connected to their extreme political wiews. I belive that Di Canio himself would earn much more respect if he come out and say that he has give it a lot of thinking and his wiews were/are wrong. Simple as that.
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Post by stokeramblers on Apr 3, 2013 8:30:28 GMT
How would you react if the owners of the club were gangsters? How would react if one the players had killed somebody say in a car crash thro been pissed up? How would you react if one of your players had been up on a sexual assault charge? The thing is football is now a sport that it full of murky characters. For a start it would be fine if they come out in public and show that they regret what they have done or said... But if they come out in public start bragging about that they have killed, are gangsters or like to sexual abuse other people or admire those who are, then it`s another story. Do you spot the difference? It`s not about left-wing/right-wing either. A lot of people on the political right-wing( conservatives etc. ) despise fascism because they know that it would damage their cause if they are to heavily connected to their extreme political wiews. I belive that Di Canio himself would earn much more respect if he come out and say that he has give it a lot of thinking and his wiews were/are wrong. Simple as that. I'd lose all respect for him if he did that. Why should he renounce his fascist beliefs just because of this media shit storm?.
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mt
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Post by mt on Apr 3, 2013 8:46:10 GMT
For a start it would be fine if they come out in public and show that they regret what they have done or said... But if they come out in public start bragging about that they have killed, are gangsters or like to sexual abuse other people or admire those who are, then it`s another story. Do you spot the difference? It`s not about left-wing/right-wing either. A lot of people on the political right-wing( conservatives etc. ) despise fascism because they know that it would damage their cause if they are to heavily connected to their extreme political wiews. I belive that Di Canio himself would earn much more respect if he come out and say that he has give it a lot of thinking and his wiews were/are wrong. Simple as that. I'd lose all respect for him if he did that. Why should he renounce his fascist beliefs just because of this media shit storm?. I have a lot of respect for people that have the guts to admit that they were wrong... A lot of people on here goes on about TP`s stubborness and it seems to me most of them want him to change. Would you lose ( if you have any? ) respect for Pulis if he changed his wiews on football?
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Post by nik80 on Apr 3, 2013 8:51:56 GMT
How would you react if the owners of the club were gangsters? How would react if one the players had killed somebody say in a car crash thro been pissed up? How would you react if one of your players had been up on a sexual assault charge? The thing is football is now a sport that it full of murky characters. For a start it would be fine if they come out in public and show that they regret what they have done or said... But if they come out in public start bragging about that they have killed, are gangsters or like to sexual abuse other people or admire those who are, then it`s another story. Do you spot the difference? It`s not about left-wing/right-wing either. A lot of people on the political right-wing( conservatives etc. ) despise fascism because they know that it would damage their cause if they are to heavily connected to their extreme political wiews. I belive that Di Canio himself would earn much more respect if he come out and say that he has give it a lot of thinking and his wiews were/are wrong. Simple as that. Someone who has killed someone, someone who's been involved in organised crime and a sex offender of any inclination would have a reason to apologise for their past behaviour You can't however expect someone to apologise for their political leaning, just because it doesn't sit well with the majority. That would be more akin to suggesting a Jew, Sikh or Muslim should apologise for not being Christian, it's their choice, as it is Paulo Di Canio's to how far right wing he chooses to be. The salute was over the top, a stupid thing to do and eventually landed him in the shit. It was stupid for his image around the world and he had to explain himself for his actions. The fact his appointment at Sunderland generates such ill feeling would suggest that he's burned his bridges with many, that pleases me no end as I hope the furore it causes is enough to keep them below us come May. Regarding the OP, I wouldn't want Paulo Di Canio anywhere near Stoke now, having read most of this thread, not only do I think he's a temperamental manager at best, the divisions we've seen TP create with our support could probably be multiplied by ten with Di Canio! But I couldn't oppose a man managing Stoke on the basis of his political beliefs alone, not without oppressive actions to back up your suggestions, that he's racist, would discriminate against black players and so on. Paulo Di Canio's not the Duce, he's just a football man
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mt
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Post by mt on Apr 3, 2013 9:35:32 GMT
For a start it would be fine if they come out in public and show that they regret what they have done or said... But if they come out in public start bragging about that they have killed, are gangsters or like to sexual abuse other people or admire those who are, then it`s another story. Do you spot the difference? It`s not about left-wing/right-wing either. A lot of people on the political right-wing( conservatives etc. ) despise fascism because they know that it would damage their cause if they are to heavily connected to their extreme political wiews. I belive that Di Canio himself would earn much more respect if he come out and say that he has give it a lot of thinking and his wiews were/are wrong. Simple as that. Someone who has killed someone, someone who's been involved in organised crime and a sex offender of any inclination would have a reason to apologise for their past behaviour You can't however expect someone to apologise for their political leaning, just because it doesn't sit well with the majority. That would be more akin to suggesting a Jew, Sikh or Muslim should apologise for not being Christian, it's their choice, as it is Paulo Di Canio's to how far right wing he chooses to be. The salute was over the top, a stupid thing to do and eventually landed him in the shit. It was stupid for his image around the world and he had to explain himself for his actions. The fact his appointment at Sunderland generates such ill feeling would suggest that he's burned his bridges with many, that pleases me no end as I hope the furore it causes is enough to keep them below us come May. Regarding the OP, I wouldn't want Paulo Di Canio anywhere near Stoke now, having read most of this thread, not only do I think he's a temperamental manager at best, the divisions we've seen TP create with our support could probably be multiplied by ten with Di Canio! But I couldn't oppose a man managing Stoke on the basis of his political beliefs alone, not without oppressive actions to back up your suggestions, that he's racist, would discriminate against black players and so on. Paulo Di Canio's not the Duce, he's just a football man St. Pauli FC and Union Berlin( Huth`s former club )in Germany are two examples of clubs with good values. They have understand that a footballclub means a lot more to the society than just the things happening on the pitch. Ìt`s all about what kind of values you want your club to be associated with.
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Post by Lakeland Potter on Apr 3, 2013 9:42:11 GMT
Someone who has killed someone, someone who's been involved in organised crime and a sex offender of any inclination would have a reason to apologise for their past behaviour You can't however expect someone to apologise for their political leaning, just because it doesn't sit well with the majority. That would be more akin to suggesting a Jew, Sikh or Muslim should apologise for not being Christian, it's their choice, as it is Paulo Di Canio's to how far right wing he chooses to be. The salute was over the top, a stupid thing to do and eventually landed him in the shit. It was stupid for his image around the world and he had to explain himself for his actions. The fact his appointment at Sunderland generates such ill feeling would suggest that he's burned his bridges with many, that pleases me no end as I hope the furore it causes is enough to keep them below us come May. Regarding the OP, I wouldn't want Paulo Di Canio anywhere near Stoke now, having read most of this thread, not only do I think he's a temperamental manager at best, the divisions we've seen TP create with our support could probably be multiplied by ten with Di Canio! But I couldn't oppose a man managing Stoke on the basis of his political beliefs alone, not without oppressive actions to back up your suggestions, that he's racist, would discriminate against black players and so on. Paulo Di Canio's not the Duce, he's just a football man St. Pauli FC and Union Berlin( Huth`s former club )in Germany are two examples of clubs with good values. They have understand that a footballclub means a lot more to the society than just the things happening on the pitch. Ìt`s all about what kind of values you want your club to be associated with. You mean like Vale choosing to save the planet by economising on soap?
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Post by nik80 on Apr 3, 2013 9:51:18 GMT
Someone who has killed someone, someone who's been involved in organised crime and a sex offender of any inclination would have a reason to apologise for their past behaviour You can't however expect someone to apologise for their political leaning, just because it doesn't sit well with the majority. That would be more akin to suggesting a Jew, Sikh or Muslim should apologise for not being Christian, it's their choice, as it is Paulo Di Canio's to how far right wing he chooses to be. The salute was over the top, a stupid thing to do and eventually landed him in the shit. It was stupid for his image around the world and he had to explain himself for his actions. The fact his appointment at Sunderland generates such ill feeling would suggest that he's burned his bridges with many, that pleases me no end as I hope the furore it causes is enough to keep them below us come May. Regarding the OP, I wouldn't want Paulo Di Canio anywhere near Stoke now, having read most of this thread, not only do I think he's a temperamental manager at best, the divisions we've seen TP create with our support could probably be multiplied by ten with Di Canio! But I couldn't oppose a man managing Stoke on the basis of his political beliefs alone, not without oppressive actions to back up your suggestions, that he's racist, would discriminate against black players and so on. Paulo Di Canio's not the Duce, he's just a football man St. Pauli FC and Union Berlin( Huth`s former club )in Germany are two examples of clubs with good values. They have understand that a footballclub means a lot more to the society than just the things happening on the pitch. Ìt`s all about what kind of values you want your club to be associated with. Funny because a few years back I did some work with our own club about what Stoke means to the community and the initiatives they run and how the Premiership funding aids that work. It isn't something I'm unaware of, the importance of a football club to the society it serves. Interesting stuff, and I can appreciate the point you are making here (reluctantly)
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mt
Youth Player
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Post by mt on Apr 3, 2013 9:58:24 GMT
St. Pauli FC and Union Berlin( Huth`s former club )in Germany are two examples of clubs with good values. They have understand that a footballclub means a lot more to the society than just the things happening on the pitch. Ìt`s all about what kind of values you want your club to be associated with. You mean like Vale choosing to save the planet by economising on soap? Something like that, even though the smell it create doesn`t make the local community a better place to live...
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Post by spitthedog on Apr 3, 2013 10:07:28 GMT
Spot on Lakeland..fascists are also enemies of democracy and freedom. PDC admits to being a fascist so for me he shouldn't be getting employment at a club that has a multi cultural and racial squad and a proud local history of fighting and defeating fascism. .......so in order to ptotect freedom - you advocate denying Di Canio his ......errrm FREEDOM! (in this case freedom to gain employment). Brilliant. Why do you find this remarkable? You are implying everyone should have have total freedom in their ideas and then have total freedom to do what they want. Is that the case in any society? If I make a pronouncement that i think I or others should have the freedom to abuse children sexually (which some people believe) I would not expect to get a job teaching in a school, and if a school turned me down on that basis would I be right in condemning them as fascist for denying me that freedom? Freedoms are defined by your beliefs and the belief systems of the society you live in.
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Post by countofmontecristo on Apr 3, 2013 10:25:22 GMT
Spit
Why are you equating sexual abuse to a persons right to political freedom? Who mentioned total freedom (anarchy)? Not me!
Society needs boundaries...and in my opinion, DiCanio holding a political viewpoint falls well within any reasonable boundary - the alternative is totalitarianism. If you don't like his politics.... fine - but don't compare them to child abuse.
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