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Post by bayernoatcake on Mar 31, 2013 16:26:56 GMT
When will it be right to shout Pulis out? Because it needs to happen and without it being shouted on the stands then I can't see it happening at all. I'm all for holding my tongue until we're safe but when that safety mathematically comes then it should howled from the roof tops. I don't think we should ever shout Pulis out a) because it will never help the team that day and b) because we should respect what Pulis and Coates have done to date to allow the two of them to make the decision when the time is right for a change. I want a new manager in the summer, but I still won't shout Pulis out or call him a cunt next season! It will help the team in the long run though. And I don't respect them, that's my problem I know but I just don't. I think PC will leave it too long and TP won't do the honourable thing and fall on his sword. The only thing that will see the back of him is protestation. It needs to happen because TP is too long in the tooth. Even if he changed I wouldn't be behind him because I know he'll revert to type. Too many people are too far gone with him. He has to be sacked in the summer. And I'll be honest, I'll be calling him a cunt until the day I die, my last words will probably Pulis related whilst my last energies are to raise my hand and shake it!
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Post by Paul Spencer on Mar 31, 2013 16:27:36 GMT
It's about context mate. Go back to December of 2011 and look at our results (it's you've made a point about this) since THEN. What is it, 8 wins in 41 games, the figure that is being banded about, I don't know? Less than a 25% win rate ... we've been poor for ages fella and now it's catching up with us. I honestly don't know how you can use statistics to claim we've been poor for longer than half a season when we were eighth after 19 games. I accept Bayern's point about performances not being great, but anyone that tries to claim the first of this season was not a success in terms of results is off their rocker. With respect mate ... YOU'RE NOT LISTENING. People weren't disputing where we were in the table in the first half of the season, they were disputing your claim that we've only been bad for half a season. When you look at the WHOLE THING in bastard fookin' CONTEXT we have been poor for longer than that.
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Post by Okie Stokie. on Mar 31, 2013 16:31:45 GMT
When will it be right to shout Pulis out? Because it needs to happen and without it being shouted on the stands then I can't see it happening at all. I'm all for holding my tongue until we're safe but when that safety mathematically comes then it should howled from the roof tops. I don't think we should ever shout Pulis out a) because it will never help the team that day and b) because we should respect what Pulis and Coates have done to date to allow the two of them to make the decision when the time is right for a change. I want a new manager in the summer, but I still won't shout Pulis out or call him a cunt next season!
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Post by Homzy on Mar 31, 2013 16:32:30 GMT
I honestly don't know how you can use statistics to claim we've been poor for longer than half a season when we were eighth after 19 games. I accept Bayern's point about performances not being great, but anyone that tries to claim the first of this season was not a success in terms of results is off their rocker. With respect mate ... YOU'RE NOT LISTENING. People weren't disputing where we were in the table in the first half of the season, they were disputing your claim that we've only been bad for half a season. When you look at the WHOLE THING in bastard fookin' CONTEXT we have been poor for longer than that. Nice use of caps. I've read everything you've written and still think you're talking nonsense. Until the day comes that points are given for performances, it's absolutely irrefutable that Stoke had a GOOD first of the season. I say it's irrefutable, but you're a man that would argue white was black until he was blue in the face. None of this matters anyway. Even if we were bottom of the league, I would not agree with the abuse Pulis is getting from some people.
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Post by spitthedog on Mar 31, 2013 16:32:55 GMT
Anybody who thinks that we haven't been consistently poor all season is just deluded.
We have played just 1 decent game all season, against Liverpool, and I'm sure that would not have happened if they hadn't had scored in the first minute. After their goal we were forced to respond, and we did.
We have not come anywhere near that performance all season.
Yesterday was not the worst I have seen us play, but I would say we were still very poor (Collymore has been a big Stoke supporter and he even said it several times)
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Post by bayernoatcake on Mar 31, 2013 16:35:52 GMT
With respect mate ... YOU'RE NOT LISTENING. People weren't disputing where we were in the table in the first half of the season, they were disputing your claim that we've only been bad for half a season. When you look at the WHOLE THING in bastard fookin' CONTEXT we have been poor for longer than that. Nice use of caps. I've read everything you've written and still think you're talking nonsense. Until the day comes that points are given for performances, it's absolutely irrefutable that Stoke had a GOOD first of the season. I say it's irrefutable, but you're a man that would argue white was black until he was blue in the face. But this season as a whole has been shite. And added on to the shiteness of the second half of last season it's the best part of 18 months of dreadful football. People will not stand for that. Especially with the money spent and the way the manager is going about his business. The league position has long been irrelevant because it's been so bad too watch. If You can't comprehend that then You won't comprehend why so many aren't very happy with the manager.
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Post by Homzy on Mar 31, 2013 16:36:31 GMT
Anybody who thinks that we haven't been consistently poor all season is just deluded. We have played just 1 decent game all season, against Liverpool, and I'm sure that would not have happened if they hadn't had scored in the first minute. After their goal we were forced to respond, and we did. We have not come anywhere near that performance all season. Yesterday was not the worst I have seen us play, but I would say we were still very poor (Collymore has been a big Stoke supporter and he even said it several times) That's funny because I think anyone that tries to spin being eighth after half a season as 'poor' is deluded. I certainly agree that most of the performances were not great, but the results were very good indeed. And no matter what anyone says about our performances, success can only be judged by results.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Mar 31, 2013 16:37:51 GMT
Anybody who thinks that we haven't been consistently poor all season is just deluded. We have played just 1 decent game all season, against Liverpool, and I'm sure that would not have happened if they hadn't had scored in the first minute. After their goal we were forced to respond, and we did. We have not come anywhere near that performance all season. Yesterday was not the worst I have seen us play, but I would say we were still very poor (Collymore has been a big Stoke supporter and he even said it several times) That's funny because I think anyone that tries to spin being eighth after half a season as 'poor' is deluded. I certainly agree that most of the performances were not great, but the results were very good indeed. And no matter what anyone says about our performances, success can only be judged by results. You're completely missing the reason why so many are so pissed off though Homzy. Like that thread the other week and now this one. It's whooshing over Your head faster than a Wilson diagonal.
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Post by Homzy on Mar 31, 2013 16:38:31 GMT
Nice use of caps. I've read everything you've written and still think you're talking nonsense. Until the day comes that points are given for performances, it's absolutely irrefutable that Stoke had a GOOD first of the season. I say it's irrefutable, but you're a man that would argue white was black until he was blue in the face. But this season as a whole has been shite. And added on to the shiteness of the second half of last season it's the best part of 18 months of dreadful football. People will not stand for that. Especially with the money spent and the way the manager is going about his business. The league position has long been irrelevant because it's been so bad too watch. If You can't comprehend that then You won't comprehend why so many aren't very happy with the manager. Like I say, it was never my intention to argue about this. But I will never, ever consider results or league position to be irrelevant when judging the success of a football team.
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Post by Kjones9 on Mar 31, 2013 16:40:01 GMT
Ah more advocating fighting in the stands, nice one! FFS. It was obviously a joke hence the Some are getting far too precious on here. That was my point, but it's ok to be precious when posters dare to question the mighty one because it suits your agenda hey Stafford?
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Post by FullerMagic on Mar 31, 2013 16:40:36 GMT
You could argue that the Nov 3rd- Dec 30th 10-game run was the real blip though.
On November 3rd, we'd got 10 points from the first 9 games.
And that was on the back of the horrific end of 2011-12 where we got 4 wins from the last 22.
55 points (and 45 goals) from the last 53 games is beyond dire.
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Post by Homzy on Mar 31, 2013 16:42:28 GMT
That's funny because I think anyone that tries to spin being eighth after half a season as 'poor' is deluded. I certainly agree that most of the performances were not great, but the results were very good indeed. And no matter what anyone says about our performances, success can only be judged by results. You're completely missing the reason why so many are so pissed off though Homzy. Like that thread the other week and now this one. It's whooshing over Your head faster than a Wilson diagonal. I disagree with you - we agree the performances were not great in the first half of the season, yet there was no abuse - but I don't want to spend my night arguing about something irrelevant to my original point, which is that Pulis doesn't deserve to be abused.
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Post by Paul Spencer on Mar 31, 2013 16:43:41 GMT
With respect mate ... YOU'RE NOT LISTENING. People weren't disputing where we were in the table in the first half of the season, they were disputing your claim that we've only been bad for half a season. When you look at the WHOLE THING in bastard fookin' CONTEXT we have been poor for longer than that. Nice use of caps. I've read everything you've written and still think you're talking nonsense. Until the day comes that points are given for performances, it's absolutely irrefutable that Stoke had a GOOD first of the season. I say it's irrefutable, but you're a man that would argue white was black until he was blue in the face. None of this matters anyway. Even if we were bottom of the league, I would not agree with the abuse Pulis is getting from some people. We might have had a good first half of the season but that doesn't mean that OVERALL we haven't been playing poorly for the last 18 months. This is what people have been trying to point out to you, I don't understand why it's such a difficult concept to grasp. You've tried to suggest it's just about half a season, when it isn't, not at all.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Mar 31, 2013 16:44:21 GMT
But this season as a whole has been shite. And added on to the shiteness of the second half of last season it's the best part of 18 months of dreadful football. People will not stand for that. Especially with the money spent and the way the manager is going about his business. The league position has long been irrelevant because it's been so bad too watch. If You can't comprehend that then You won't comprehend why so many aren't very happy with the manager. Like I say, it was never my intention to argue about this. But I will never, ever consider results or league position to be irrelevant when judging the success of a football team. Well people do and to understand the position people are in now You have to take that on board. Last season was dire, this season has been even worse.
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Post by Homzy on Mar 31, 2013 16:44:56 GMT
You could argue that the Nov 3rd- Dec 30th 10-game run was the real blip though. On November 3rd, we'd got 10 points from the first 9 games. And that was on the back of the horrific end of 2011-12 where we got 4 wins from the last 22. 55 points (and 45 goals) from the last 53 games is beyond dire. I don't pay much attention to mini-runs throughout a season. A team like Stoke is never going to be consistent so can only be judged on their results over the entirety of a season or half season, once they have played everyone. At the halfway point, we were doing well. I highly doubt we'll be able to say the same come the end of the season, but if we happened to go on a run and make the top half, the season would have to be judged as a success in terms of results.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Mar 31, 2013 16:46:48 GMT
You're completely missing the reason why so many are so pissed off though Homzy. Like that thread the other week and now this one. It's whooshing over Your head faster than a Wilson diagonal. I disagree with you - we agree the performances were not great in the first half of the season, yet there was no abuse - but I don't want to spend my night arguing about something irrelevant to my original point, which is that Pulis doesn't deserve to be abused. There was no abuse because people still thought he would change. I was calling for that change at the end of last season but the more and more it hasn't happened, the more people will get angry. He probably doesn't but as other have pointed out he's got off lightly than previous incumbents and he's in a position to be shot down from. Abuse is inevitable.
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Post by Paul Spencer on Mar 31, 2013 16:47:12 GMT
You could argue that the Nov 3rd- Dec 30th 10-game run was the real blip though. On November 3rd, we'd got 10 points from the first 9 games. And that was on the back of the horrific end of 2011-12 where we got 4 wins from the last 22. 55 points (and 45 goals) from the last 53 games is beyond dire. Now that's a far more intelligent appraisal of the context of the situation.
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Post by Stafford-Stokie on Mar 31, 2013 16:50:14 GMT
FFS. It was obviously a joke hence the Some are getting far too precious on here. That was my point, but it's ok to be precious when posters dare to question the mighty one because it suits your agenda hey Stafford? No. It is fine to question Pulis and I do regularly. It is not fine to abuse the bloke that has given us the best time to be Stokie. The same bloke that has given so much to the area like the DLT. The football may not be great at the moment but with the right signings it will improve. Pulis knows we need wingers. He tried to sort this with Kightly and Shea but it so far hasn't happened. I can't see him going anywhere and if this is the case then he has my continued support. If he does move on then that is fine with me also. If people want to hide behind their screens and call him a cunt etc then I hope it makes them feel better. If it starts in the stands then Yesterday at Goodison will be nothing as to what will happen at the Brit. There may well be trouble ahead and it will just make us look small time. Pulis will stay for as long as we are in the Prem or for as long as he wants to.
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Post by Lakeland Potter on Mar 31, 2013 16:51:08 GMT
When will it be right to shout Pulis out? Because it needs to happen and without it being shouted on the stands then I can't see it happening at all. I'm all for holding my tongue until we're safe but when that safety mathematically comes then it should howled from the roof tops. I don't think we should ever shout Pulis out a) because it will never help the team that day and b) because we should respect what Pulis and Coates have done to date to allow the two of them to make the decision when the time is right for a change. I want a new manager in the summer, but I still won't shout Pulis out or call him a cunt next season! If we accept (and most fans do) that the fans can lift a team and improve their performance, then the reverse is almost certainly true. Can anyone explain to me how shouting abuse at the manager, whilst a game is in progress, is going to benefit the team during that game? The chances are that it may put some or all of the players off and make it less likely that the team will get a positive result that day - it will certainly give the opposing players a lift. We'd love it at the Brit if the away fans started chanting abuse at their own manager - in fact we'd join in to make sure he heard the abuse. EDIT: I take Bayern's point that, if/when we are safe, then shouting abuse at the manager is less of a concern. I won't be doing it myself but, if that's what floats your boat, so be it.
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Post by Homzy on Mar 31, 2013 16:51:33 GMT
Nice use of caps. I've read everything you've written and still think you're talking nonsense. Until the day comes that points are given for performances, it's absolutely irrefutable that Stoke had a GOOD first of the season. I say it's irrefutable, but you're a man that would argue white was black until he was blue in the face. None of this matters anyway. Even if we were bottom of the league, I would not agree with the abuse Pulis is getting from some people. We might have had a good first half of the season but that doesn't mean that OVERALL we haven't been playing poorly for the last 18 months. This is what people have been trying to point out to you, I don't understand why it's such a difficult concept to grasp. You've tried to suggest it's just about half a season, when it isn't, not at all. This post is a lot more sensible, albeit tinged with the usual condescension. I said myself in the summer that Pulis would lose my support if we were still complaining about the same things come the end of the season and failed to make the top 10 again. I am now definitely in favour of a change of manager in the summer. I am pissed off that we've now blown a good position at Christmas to (probably) finish in the bottom half, and I'm pissed off with many of the decisions Pulis has been making. However (and this is the point YOU seem to be missing), Pulis has done enough for the club that I could never condone the abuse he is getting from some quarters, regardless of how long anyone thinks we've been poor for. I hope that makes my position clear to you, but I suspect it won't. I've never, ever come across anybody on an internet forum as patronising as you.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Mar 31, 2013 16:52:11 GMT
I don't think we should ever shout Pulis out a) because it will never help the team that day and b) because we should respect what Pulis and Coates have done to date to allow the two of them to make the decision when the time is right for a change. I want a new manager in the summer, but I still won't shout Pulis out or call him a cunt next season! If we accept (and most fans do) that the fans can lift a team and improve their performance, then the reverse is almost certainly true. Can anyone explain to me how shouting abuse at the manager, whilst a game is in progress, is going to benefit the team during that game? The chances are that it may put some or all of the players off and make it less likely that the team will get a positive result that day - it will certainly give the opposing players a lift. We'd love it at the Brit if the away fans started chanting abuse at their own manager - in fact we'd join in to make sure he heard the abuse. I agree and that's why it needs to be kept shtum until we're safe. But when then comes, so should the hounding.
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Post by Lakeland Potter on Mar 31, 2013 16:55:09 GMT
If we accept (and most fans do) that the fans can lift a team and improve their performance, then the reverse is almost certainly true. Can anyone explain to me how shouting abuse at the manager, whilst a game is in progress, is going to benefit the team during that game? The chances are that it may put some or all of the players off and make it less likely that the team will get a positive result that day - it will certainly give the opposing players a lift. We'd love it at the Brit if the away fans started chanting abuse at their own manager - in fact we'd join in to make sure he heard the abuse. I agree and that's why it needs to be kept shtum until we're safe. But when then comes, so should the hounding. See my edit above, which I wrote before I saw your most recent post.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Mar 31, 2013 16:57:03 GMT
I agree and that's why it needs to be kept shtum until we're safe. But when then comes, so should the hounding. See my edit above, which I wrote before I saw your most recent post. Sound! I just think it's best for the club.
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Post by Paul Spencer on Mar 31, 2013 16:58:47 GMT
We might have had a good first half of the season but that doesn't mean that OVERALL we haven't been playing poorly for the last 18 months. This is what people have been trying to point out to you, I don't understand why it's such a difficult concept to grasp. You've tried to suggest it's just about half a season, when it isn't, not at all. This post is a lot more sensible, albeit tinged with the usual condescension. I said myself in the summer that Pulis would lose my support if we were still complaining about the same things come the end of the season and failed to make the top 10 again. I am now definitely in favour of a change of manager in the summer. I am pissed off that we've now blown a good position at Christmas to (probably) finish in the bottom half, and I'm pissed off with many of the decisions Pulis has been making. However (and this is the point YOU seem to be missing), Pulis has done enough for the club that I could never condone the abuse he is getting from some quarters, regardless of how long anyone thinks we've been poor for. I hope that makes my position clear to you, but I suspect it won't. I've never, ever come across anybody on an internet forum as patronising as you. And you accuse me of being condescending and patronising? I got your point about not condoing the abuse of Pulis, indeed I haven't said anything to the contrary, I was just backing up what other people had said about your half a season claim, so lord knows what you're on about now.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Mar 31, 2013 17:00:33 GMT
The only advocating abuse is me and I know it's wrong and I only advocate because I can't stop myself from doing it! Pulis tourettes.
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Post by Homzy on Mar 31, 2013 17:02:37 GMT
This post is a lot more sensible, albeit tinged with the usual condescension. I said myself in the summer that Pulis would lose my support if we were still complaining about the same things come the end of the season and failed to make the top 10 again. I am now definitely in favour of a change of manager in the summer. I am pissed off that we've now blown a good position at Christmas to (probably) finish in the bottom half, and I'm pissed off with many of the decisions Pulis has been making. However (and this is the point YOU seem to be missing), Pulis has done enough for the club that I could never condone the abuse he is getting from some quarters, regardless of how long anyone thinks we've been poor for. I hope that makes my position clear to you, but I suspect it won't. I've never, ever come across anybody on an internet forum as patronising as you. And you accuse me of being condescending and patronising? I got your point about not condoing the abuse of Pulis, indeed I haven't said anything to the contrary, I was just backing up what other people had said about your half a season claim, so lord knows what you're on about now. Every post I have ever read of yours is dripping with condescension, but I don't want to ruin the thread any more so will leave it there.
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Post by Pugsley on Mar 31, 2013 17:04:42 GMT
Fans need to make themselves heard if they want the manager out. The way he has managed the team and the sheer arrogance of the man makes him, IMHO, fair game.
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Post by Stafford-Stokie on Mar 31, 2013 17:17:10 GMT
Fans need to make themselves heard if they want the manager out. The way he has managed the team and the sheer arrogance of the man makes him, IMHO, fair game. Do you honestly think Coates will get rid? If Pulis keeps us in the Prem I just can't see him going anywhere any time soon unless he want's to.
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Post by Paul Spencer on Mar 31, 2013 17:26:28 GMT
Fans need to make themselves heard if they want the manager out. The way he has managed the team and the sheer arrogance of the man makes him, IMHO, fair game. Do you honestly think Coates will get rid? If Pulis keeps us in the Prem I just can't see him going anywhere any time soon unless he want's to. Even king of the rimmers mcf has been saying for a while now, that if we don't get to 40 points by the end of the season, then there's no way that Pulis will survive and I think he's likely to be right.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 31, 2013 17:26:33 GMT
it seems like every journalist and pundit is lining up to have a go at us (supporters not the club) at the moment. I've never been so ashamed to be a Stoke supporter, its all because a few idiots cannot see the difference between criticism and abuse. Its got nothing to do with having to watch shit football each week, its about the lack of respect for one of, if not the greatest manager in the club's history.
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