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Post by whereami on Apr 2, 2013 14:09:05 GMT
The lowest scorers thing is an issue but only to a certain degree. If we continue to be very solid defensively (which we haven't been for the last 3 months granted) then it's not that big a deal. Someone had to be the lowest scorers, just as someone has to be the best defensively. I just believe that Pulis deserves next season to get things back on track. If next season is this poor, then i'd agree it's time to move on. Not after a few bad months though. Get your tin hat on fella Again, When has someone stopped you offering an opinion?
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Post by Deleted on Apr 2, 2013 14:10:53 GMT
The "give him another year" argument only really works if you can see the direction he is trying to take us and you accept we are in a transitional period.
The facts suggest the opposite though. The recent signings can't get into the side (Kightly, Shea, Owen, Adam etc) which suggest he is either buying players that aren't good enough or he is buying players that he doesn't trust to start in his first XI, or that they don't even fit into the style he insists on playing.
Does any of this suggest we are going through a transitional period, or does it look like he's made a bit of a balls up of things?
We're not waiting for new signings to gel or giving a new system time to settle in, we're watching a bit of a shambles and giving him more time is not the answer for me.
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Post by foster on Apr 2, 2013 14:11:10 GMT
This blip is what so many people have been waiting for. Pulis has proven them wrong for 7 years (which really really hurt some people), and now they've finally got their chance to stick the boot into him after his first bad spell as manager. Sometimes, things don't always go to plan. Pulis didn't plan this season to turn out like this. He's allowed 1 bad season in every 7 surely? It's moronic to expect constant progress year on year on year. It simply doesn't happen anywhere. Bollocks Dave. For years I was hugely pro-Pulis. What evidence is there that it's a blip? We had a dreadful end to last season as well. It's moronic to expect year on year improvement every single season, but why was it moronic to expect it this season, given we had no European distractions, kept our best players and spent another £30m? A relegation battle wasn't inevitable, was it? The one game in which we played really well this season saw us play two proper wingers and Walters and Jones up front, but we've barely seen that side since. Why's that? For the second successive year we're the lowest scorers in the entire pyramid, how do you explain that? Daves point certainly plays on the heart (or is it harp) strings but although our mid table positions were decent, our underlying issues as Rob points out (in addition to attacking stats) have not only come to light this year. Moronic and Embarrassment are just two terms used to describe those who don's share the pro Pulis view. Yet it's those posters who apparently resort to name calling.
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Post by chattyladypotter on Apr 2, 2013 14:11:20 GMT
Yes Dave I can see now how wrong I was my views are as welcome as a turd in a swimming pool anyones, obviously
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Post by davejohnno1 on Apr 2, 2013 14:13:36 GMT
Why would he need his tin hat? It is a perfectly reasonable response even though I disagree with it.
To counter it, I would say we are the lowest goalscorers because we set up so defensively. 8 of our 11 players are picked for their defensive capabilities rather that attacking instincts.
If we didn't have a half decent defensive record, given how we set up, then you really would have to worry but the blend is wrong. If we concede, generally, we aren't going to win. Our defensive record, which was once brilliant, is now pretty crap, not in the overall standings obviously, but in the swing in goal difference since the turn of the year.
That is a worry. I can understand why people would give TP another year. I just don't agree with it and I don't agree with it because I don't think there seems to be much evidence to suggest that Pulis can or will arrest this decline. There are very few positives in our approach to games or the subsequent results right now, if any. We are conceding too many goals and not scoring enough. That normally leads to relegation.
Our nosedive this season has all the hallmarks of Hull City's nosedive a couple of seasons ago. We will survive this season, JUST, but next season, should Pulis stay, I would say we have to be one of the favourites for relegation.
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Post by foster on Apr 2, 2013 14:15:18 GMT
The lowest scorers thing is an issue but only to a certain degree. If we continue to be very solid defensively (which we haven't been for the last 3 months granted) then it's not that big a deal. Someone had to be the lowest scorers, just as someone has to be the best defensively. I just believe that Pulis deserves next season to get things back on track. If next season is this poor, then i'd agree it's time to move on. Not after a few bad months though. 2 seasons in a row though? and with the money we've invested in forwards? Also considering that the fans have called for some wingers for 2 seasons now.
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Post by whereami on Apr 2, 2013 14:17:52 GMT
Yes Dave I can see now how wrong I was my views are as welcome as a turd in a swimming pool anyones, obviously Well for the 4th time then, WHEN HAS SOMEONE STOPPED YOU OFFERING AN OPINION?
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Post by bayernoatcake on Apr 2, 2013 14:18:50 GMT
The "give him another year" argument only really works if you can see the direction he is trying to take us and you accept we are in a transitional period. The facts suggest the opposite though. The recent signings can't get into the side (Kightly, Shea, Owen, Adam etc) which suggest he is either buying players that aren't good enough or he is buying players that he doesn't trust to start in his first XI, or that they don't even fit into the style he insists on playing. Does any of this suggest we are going through a transitional period, or does it look like he's made a bit of a balls up of things? We're not waiting for new signings to gel or giving a new system time to settle in, we're watching a bit of a shambles and giving him more time is not the answer for me. I was in the "give him another year camp" last season. It just got worse.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 2, 2013 14:18:59 GMT
whereami i think the point isn't that people are stopped from having an opinion, it's simply that if others disagree with you nowadays they tend to do with insults,abuse,condescension and a high and mighty attitude which to be fair to CLP is completely unnecessary and childish!(and she's also quite right that davejohnno didn't really do his argumnet any favours by patronising with "Girly catfight" comments) i personally DO want Pulis to go but at the same time i also think he does deserve a bit more respect than he currently gets for what he HAS done in the past..i'm not calling for a knighthood or for a statue at the Brit but some of the things on here are ridiculous, incredibly hypocrticial (given that most were quite happy with the manager who got us to Wembley, promoted blah blah blah at the time but now like to act smug as if they've always hated him which is, in most cases, utter bollocks. now, if people DO want to abuse TP (and i can see why they would at this moment for his current decisions etc. but still not why they would have hated him for his previous achievements....and sod this "Anyone could have with Coates' money" bollocks, i don't see QPR pulling up many trees with their ridiculous amounts of money!!) then crack on, i personally am an adult and can appreciate people for past achievements rather than simply ignore them and only focus on the now because that's suit a certain stance better so i'll leave them to it but to resort to insulting other posters, taking the piss, patronising them as if becase they disagree then therefore must have no footballing knowledge or be a gloryhunter is completely over the top, unnecessary and JUST as bad as what others HAVE been banned for........for some reason however this is only deemed to be unacceptable behaviour when it involves swearing,a major point admin seem to have missed. personally i don't give a shit..i'm always getting abused by foster, today i've abused momo but i know when it is banter and when it isn't and it is quite obvious that on here a lot of it is frustration spilling over......we all have our own opinions, we're all human and our own opinion is therefore just as likely to be as wrong as anyone elses so all people need to do is accept what others think and stop letting the collective frustration of what's happening on the pitch (and in the dugout) at the moment affect how we treat everyone else here!!
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Post by Deleted on Apr 2, 2013 14:20:47 GMT
The lowest scorers thing is an issue but only to a certain degree. If we continue to be very solid defensively (which we haven't been for the last 3 months granted) then it's not that big a deal. Someone had to be the lowest scorers, just as someone has to be the best defensively. I just believe that Pulis deserves next season to get things back on track. If next season is this poor, then i'd agree it's time to move on. Not after a few bad months though. Surely it's a big deal if you're spending millions on creative and/or attacking players every year? As football fans, don't we want to see our team trying to score goals? Isn't that a big part of what made us football fans?
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Post by chattyladypotter on Apr 2, 2013 14:23:23 GMT
whereami there is a reason that I haven't answered your direct question. It is that the answers are in other replies/posts
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Post by foster on Apr 2, 2013 14:24:17 GMT
whereami i think the point isn't that people are stopped from having an opinion, it's simply that if others disagree with you nowadays they tend to do with insults,abuse,condescension and a high and mighty attitude which to be fair to CLP is completely unnecessary and childish!(and she's also quite right that davejohnno didn't really do his argumnet any favours by patronising with "Girly catfight" comments) i personally DO want Pulis to go but at the same time i also think he does deserve a bit more respect than he currently gets for what he HAS done in the past..i'm not calling for a knighthood or for a statue at the Brit but some of the things on here are ridiculous, incredibly hypocrticial (given that most were quite happy with the manager who got us to Wembley, promoted blah blah blah at the time but now like to act smug as if they've always hated him which is, in most cases, utter bollocks. now, if people DO want to abuse TP (and i can see why they would at this moment for his current decisions etc. but still not why they would have hated him for his previous achievements....and sod this "Anyone could have with Coates' money" bollocks, i don't see QPR pulling up many trees with their ridiculous amounts of money!!) then crack on, i personally am an adult and can appreciate people for past achievements rather than simply ignore them and only focus on the now because that's suit a certain stance better so i'll leave them to it but to resort to insulting other posters, taking the piss, patronising them as if becase they disagree then therefore must have no footballing knowledge or be a gloryhunter is completely over the top, unnecessary and JUST as bad as what others HAVE been banned for........for some reason however this is only deemed to be unacceptable behaviour when it involves swearing,a major point admin seem to have missed. p ersonally i don't give a shit..i'm always getting abused by foster, today i've abused momo but i know when it is banter and when it isn't and it is quite obvious that on here a lot of it is frustration spilling over......we all have our own opinions, we're all human and our own opinion is therefore just as likely to be as wrong as anyone elses so all people need to do is accept what others think and stop letting the collective frustration of what's happening on the pitch (and in the dugout) at the moment affect how we treat everyone else here!! To be fair Mick, and I mean this in the nicest way possible.. that's fucking bollocks. I haven't sent you any abuse for at least a week.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 2, 2013 14:25:39 GMT
It has to change in the Summer Bayern, it just has to.
To give Pulis his due, he has been open to trying a few changes in recent years, which is something I never thought he would be.
• He brought Woodgate in at the expense of Huth, maybe his thinking was to try a more “ball playing” type centre half? Didn’t really work out for him. • He brought Adam in, who is very much not a TP type midfielder. He then proceeded to shove him up front with, by his own admission, the tactical masterstroke being “just follow Crouchy around”. I can’t quite figure out what the thinking was on this one. • He brought in Kightly to take up the mantle on the right hand side of midfield. People may say the jury is out on that one but for me, he is nowhere near good enough. • He brought in Owen, who like Adam, is a very non-typical Pulis player. As above with Adam, I’ve tried but I just can’t figure that one out. • He brought in Wilson Palacios and failed to get the wind gods to bugger off. • I don’t even know where to start with the likes of Ness and Edu
I haven’t a clue what we have to benefit from giving him another year. It just seems like a complete mess.
Lets get survival sorted and then make the change in the Summer.
WD
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Post by bayernoatcake on Apr 2, 2013 14:28:10 GMT
It's hard not to be condescending when You have people like Sid saying stuff and then backing it up with nothing.
In real life You'd humour them and then sloop off if You're polite.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 2, 2013 14:28:24 GMT
whereami i think the point isn't that people are stopped from having an opinion, it's simply that if others disagree with you nowadays they tend to do with insults,abuse,condescension and a high and mighty attitude which to be fair to CLP is completely unnecessary and childish!(and she's also quite right that davejohnno didn't really do his argumnet any favours by patronising with "Girly catfight" comments) i personally DO want Pulis to go but at the same time i also think he does deserve a bit more respect than he currently gets for what he HAS done in the past..i'm not calling for a knighthood or for a statue at the Brit but some of the things on here are ridiculous, incredibly hypocrticial (given that most were quite happy with the manager who got us to Wembley, promoted blah blah blah at the time but now like to act smug as if they've always hated him which is, in most cases, utter bollocks. now, if people DO want to abuse TP (and i can see why they would at this moment for his current decisions etc. but still not why they would have hated him for his previous achievements....and sod this "Anyone could have with Coates' money" bollocks, i don't see QPR pulling up many trees with their ridiculous amounts of money!!) then crack on, i personally am an adult and can appreciate people for past achievements rather than simply ignore them and only focus on the now because that's suit a certain stance better so i'll leave them to it but to resort to insulting other posters, taking the piss, patronising them as if becase they disagree then therefore must have no footballing knowledge or be a gloryhunter is completely over the top, unnecessary and JUST as bad as what others HAVE been banned for........for some reason however this is only deemed to be unacceptable behaviour when it involves swearing,a major point admin seem to have missed. p ersonally i don't give a shit..i'm always getting abused by foster, today i've abused momo but i know when it is banter and when it isn't and it is quite obvious that on here a lot of it is frustration spilling over......we all have our own opinions, we're all human and our own opinion is therefore just as likely to be as wrong as anyone elses so all people need to do is accept what others think and stop letting the collective frustration of what's happening on the pitch (and in the dugout) at the moment affect how we treat everyone else here!! To be fair Mick, and I mean this in the nicest way possible.. that's fucking bollocks. I haven't sent you any abuse for at least a week. and i miss it, it makes me feel special instead of just yet another one of your ho's!!!
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Post by davejohnno1 on Apr 2, 2013 14:28:28 GMT
Come off it MMLC. It was more than relevant considering the point was about ABUSING Pulis or posters with a different opinon to your own.
The only way it wasn't relevant is if I have had a case of mistaken identity but I don't think I have!
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Post by bayernoatcake on Apr 2, 2013 14:31:40 GMT
It has to change in the Summer Bayern, it just has to. To give Pulis his due, he has been open to trying a few changes in recent years, which is something I never thought he would be. • He brought Woodgate in at the expense of Huth, maybe his thinking was to try a more “ball playing” type centre half? Didn’t really work out for him. • He brought Adam in, who is very much not a TP type midfielder. He then proceeded to shove him up front with, by his own admission, the tactical masterstroke being “just follow Crouchy around”. I can’t quite figure out what the thinking was on this one. • He brought in Kightly to take up the mantle on the right hand side of midfield. People may say the jury is out on that one but for me, he is nowhere near good enough. • He brought in Owen, who like Adam, is a very non-typical Pulis player. As above with Adam, I’ve tried but I just can’t figure that one out. • He brought in Wilson Palacios and failed to get the wind gods to bugger off. • I don’t even know where to start with the likes of Ness and Edu I haven’t a clue what we have to benefit from giving him another year. It just seems like a complete mess. Lets get survival sorted and then make the change in the Summer. WD Agree with every word of that WD. I also think it's got to the point that even if he did make changes I just wouldn't have the belief he'd stick to them. He's done it too many times in the past.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 2, 2013 14:31:50 GMT
dave i just meant the term itself could come across as patronising, not the content of what you were saying mate.
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Post by chattyladypotter on Apr 2, 2013 14:32:14 GMT
It wasn't relevant because it was a personal matter that provoke the dispute, nothing to do with football or Pulis or difference of opinion. Do you log everyones arguments so you can throw it back at them Dave? better get your facts straight
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Post by jstoke7 on Apr 2, 2013 14:34:20 GMT
It wasn't relevant because it was a personal matter that provoke the dispute, nothing to do with football or Pulis or difference of opinion. Do you log everyones arguments so you can throw it back at them Dave? better get your facts straight The crux of the whole thing for me is that from my judgement of reading the board, the ones who resort to abuse etc are not the ones who are anti-pulis...it's the ones who are for him.
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Post by whereami on Apr 2, 2013 14:35:17 GMT
whereami i think the point isn't that people are stopped from having an opinion, it's simply that if others disagree with you nowadays they tend to do with insults,abuse,condescension and a high and mighty attitude which to be fair to CLP is completely unnecessary and childish!(and she's also quite right that davejohnno didn't really do his argumnet any favours by patronising with "Girly catfight" comments) You must type at a phenomenal speed mate I've narrowed it down to this one point because it keeps happening, as others have mentioned too, from the likes of CLP/Stafford/Sid/Owd. When they can no longer answer a thread it gets left, only for them to make the same points again in a different thread. Its no good for them to moan about the same shit getting posted in thread after thread when they repeatedly paint themselves into corners, dont answer direct questions and then come out with the same spiel in a different place. I was asking the question because there is no answer to it - nowhere has anyone said "you cant show gratitiude to Pulis". If they're upset that they get out argued then they should, in my opinion, suck it up and realise that its because they're defending such an apparently indefensible position without offering anything in the way of logical points that can be debated. Instead we get wannabe victimisation and lamenting about some shadowy oatcake "mafia", or an oatcake "clique" that is running wild, and its garbage. Its no wonder language gets more heated as people get frustrated repeating the same points again and again to see them repeatedly go unanswered
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Post by chattyladypotter on Apr 2, 2013 14:35:25 GMT
It wasn't relevant because it was a personal matter that provoke the dispute, nothing to do with football or Pulis or difference of opinion. Do you log everyones arguments so you can throw it back at them Dave? better get your facts straight The crux of the whole thing for me is that from my judgement of reading the board, the ones who resort to abuse etc are not the ones who are anti-pulis...it's the ones who are for him. that is opinion not fact
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Post by bayernoatcake on Apr 2, 2013 14:36:21 GMT
It wasn't relevant because it was a personal matter that provoke the dispute, nothing to do with football or Pulis or difference of opinion. Do you log everyones arguments so you can throw it back at them Dave? better get your facts straight Does it mean we can't take the piss out of WD for deleting 86 times? If so, where's the fun in that?
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Post by jstoke7 on Apr 2, 2013 14:36:32 GMT
The crux of the whole thing for me is that from my judgement of reading the board, the ones who resort to abuse etc are not the ones who are anti-pulis...it's the ones who are for him. that is opinion not fact I never said it was fact, I was offering an opinion from my reading of the board... I am so confused right now, what are you trying to get at?
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Post by davejohnno1 on Apr 2, 2013 14:38:05 GMT
I don't log on to anyones profile CLP because I couldn't really give a shit to be honest. I recall the catfight (the argument was greeted with all manner of tongue in cheek remarks such as "fight fight fight" hence I brought it up. If the context of bringing it up was wrong then surely it would have been easier to counter my claim by saying as much.
I thought my two examples were pretty much perfect really considering it involved personal abuse (which you were recently involved in as far as my memory served me) and the view that any opposition views are surpressed or confined to the shit bin given that we have a 4 day old, 17 page thread which started with the opposition view, at the top of the page.
MMLC...No worries mate. I didn't need a response but merely hoped I would get one so I could look at the video at the bottom of your profile. I never tire of seeing that goal and it always puts a smile on my face. For that reason alone, you are my favourite poster on this forum!
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Post by foster on Apr 2, 2013 14:39:21 GMT
It wasn't relevant because it was a personal matter that provoke the dispute, nothing to do with football or Pulis or difference of opinion. Do you log everyones arguments so you can throw it back at them Dave? better get your facts straight I don't think you're in a position to talk about facts when you can't come up with any yourself. Didn't you just call half the board an 'embarrassment to the club' as well. Sounds personal to me.
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Post by chattyladypotter on Apr 2, 2013 14:39:54 GMT
I never said it was fact, I was offering an opinion from my reading of the board... I am so confused right now, what are you trying to get at? Not really getting at anything I can only speak for what I post. I think some replies I get from posters are hostile enough to deter me from posting and I can only assume others get the same.
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Post by chattyladypotter on Apr 2, 2013 14:42:39 GMT
It wasn't relevant because it was a personal matter that provoke the dispute, nothing to do with football or Pulis or difference of opinion. Do you log everyones arguments so you can throw it back at them Dave? better get your facts straight I don't think you're in a position to talk about facts when you can't come up with any yourself. Didn't you just call half the board an 'embarrassment to the club' as well. Sounds personal to me. I was giving my opinion, saying that I agree with the OP... The thread was created to express that opinion Foster.... or am I not allowed to post my opinion ???
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Post by bayernoatcake on Apr 2, 2013 14:43:56 GMT
I don't think you're in a position to talk about facts when you can't come up with any yourself. Didn't you just call half the board an 'embarrassment to the club' as well. Sounds personal to me. I was giving my opinion, saying that I agree with the OP... The thread was created to express that opinion Foster.... or am I not allowed to post my opinion ??? Of course but You seem to have a problem when it's challenged. Isn't that the whole point of this place?
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Post by whereami on Apr 2, 2013 14:46:04 GMT
I don't think you're in a position to talk about facts when you can't come up with any yourself. Didn't you just call half the board an 'embarrassment to the club' as well. Sounds personal to me. I was giving my opinion, saying that I agree with the OP... The thread was created to express that opinion Foster.... or am I not allowed to post my opinion ??? Jebus hates Christ
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