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Post by dozintheseventees on Jan 30, 2013 14:40:47 GMT
I am 100% in agreement with you mate and am sick to death of saying that strikers are NOT the problem, supply is the problem. Absolutely, which is why it is ludicrous to play Jonathan Walters has a supplier by playing out wide. Presumably that is the idea??? How many assists for him this season? He doesn't play out wide as "a supplier" but as the utility player that he is. This has allowed Pulis to play ADAM as a supplier. It aint worked too well, I agree and Walters should always be in the hole where he's best.
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Post by dozintheseventees on Jan 30, 2013 14:42:46 GMT
And to watch TP in the transfer market is like watching an eight year old buying Ferrari after Ferrari and complaining they don't work, when it's because they don't know how to drive and can't reach the pedals. Except our players depreciate faster than Ferraris. Most people seem to have Walters down as a Lada! ;D
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Post by spitthedog on Jan 30, 2013 14:42:59 GMT
What is a utility player?
or rather what is the role of a utility player at home to Wigan?
and why would you need one when we have 2 defensive midfield players, and 4 defenders playing at home to a team 3rd from the bottom?
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Post by Paddypotter on Jan 30, 2013 14:44:05 GMT
Walters is very good at breaking up the play, last night almost every time we went forward he broke it up. At one point on the wing, he received the ball and had a chance to break but instead tried to turn back towards his own goal only to turn straight into a wigan player that was chasing him. He has no pace and knew he couldn't outrun their player so he lost the ball yet again.
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Post by dozintheseventees on Jan 30, 2013 14:48:28 GMT
What is a utility player? Jack of all trades i.e. protect the full back, be an outlet for forward hoofs from the defence, get back and tackle, track back with opposition midfielders, get inside and support the striker, try not to head it into your own goal too often AND Get enough goals to keep all the moaning bastard Stoke fans off your back (and his record compares to any of our recent strikers). I don't think we ask enough of the lazy fucker myself.
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Post by Kjones9 on Jan 30, 2013 14:52:43 GMT
The thing is with Walters for all his running around he cannot even defend. He is always in or around his man but never does anything of any note. I agree that he isn't the best full back in the world, or indeed the best defensive midfielder or winger. Perhaps we should expect more from our STRIKERS. We'd be asking him to be making goal-line diving saves with his fingertips if only football's governing body would change the rules for us. Remind me, what position dbaoes he play? Walters isn't in the team to play up front though his he? If he was he would of been dropped yonks ago. He's in the team to "work hard". He plays on the wing or in midfeild. So yes if he's in the team for his hard work he should actually be able to contribute to the match in some capacity.
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Post by dozintheseventees on Jan 30, 2013 14:57:42 GMT
I agree that he isn't the best full back in the world, or indeed the best defensive midfielder or winger. Perhaps we should expect more from our STRIKERS. We'd be asking him to be making goal-line diving saves with his fingertips if only football's governing body would change the rules for us. Remind me, what position does he play? Minutes he isn't in the team to play up front his he? If he was he would of been dropped yonks ago. He's in the team to "work hard". He plays on the wing or in midfeild. So yes if he's in the team for his hard work he should actually be able to contribute to the match in some capacity. IF he was actually in the team as a striker (which he IS, amongst many other things) perhaps he would actually be allowed to get in on goal more, support his partner more and score more goals but he's asked to do all the rest as well. He's Super Jon not fucking Superman. And he does CONTRIBUTE more than most and he's scored more goals than most too. But don't let me sway you. Anyway, about 20 posts ago, I said I'd try and make THAT my last post on Walters for a while. Trouble is I have to keeep coming back to defend the poor fella against all you bullies picking on him. ;D ;D ;D
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Post by stokiejoe on Jan 30, 2013 15:07:37 GMT
Walters and all the others play in the straight-jacket forced on the by TP, where working hard is valued more than ability and the whole team defend but one lone soul attacks. A better manager would get better performances from the players we have got Walters included. One thing Walters isn't is a winger.
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Post by cheekymatt71 on Jan 30, 2013 15:12:37 GMT
doz you cant defend his performance last night. I dont care if he works hard and run around if he cant pass a ball successfully to a teammate 5 metres away.
He wasnt the only one guilty of it, but hes so limited as an attacking threat its untrue.
And all this about his defensive qualities - the last time he was in our penalty area he scored 2 goals for Chelsea for christ sake. Played on the wing hes bad going forward and a liability going back.
Played in the hole or NOT AT ALL.
And yet every game he seems to play in 3 different positions just to keep him on the field. Whilst we sub on and off the real wingers and strikers just to find a place for him on the pitch.
When was the last time he got subbed off by the way?
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Post by dozintheseventees on Jan 30, 2013 15:19:05 GMT
doz you cant defend his performance last night. I dont care if he works hard and run around if he cant pass a ball successfully to a teammate 5 metres away. He wasnt the only one guilty of it, but hes so limited as an attacking threat its untrue. And all this about his defensive qualities - the last time he was in our penalty area he scored 2 goals for Chelsea for christ sake. Played on the wing hes bad going forward and a liability going back. Played in the hole or NOT AT ALL. And yet every game he seems to play in 3 different positions just to keep him on the field. Whilst we sub on and off the real wingers and strikers just to find a place for him on the pitch. When was the last time he got subbed off by the way? I don't seek to defend his performance last night mate. He was wank along with several other players who HAVEN'T got threads devoted to their wankness today.
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Post by johnbutlershair on Jan 30, 2013 15:23:46 GMT
doz you cant defend his performance last night. I dont care if he works hard and run around if he cant pass a ball successfully to a teammate 5 metres away. He wasnt the only one guilty of it, but hes so limited as an attacking threat its untrue. And all this about his defensive qualities - the last time he was in our penalty area he scored 2 goals for Chelsea for christ sake. Played on the wing hes bad going forward and a liability going back. Played in the hole or NOT AT ALL. And yet every game he seems to play in 3 different positions just to keep him on the field. Whilst we sub on and off the real wingers and strikers just to find a place for him on the pitch. When was the last time he got subbed off by the way? I don't seek to defend his performance last night mate. He was wank along with several other players who HAVEN'T got threads devoted to their wankness today. Every season we have a scapegoat that when we are shit get singled out. Walters, Foley, Collins, Darel Russell, Delap, Sidibe to name but a few.
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Post by spitthedog on Jan 30, 2013 15:23:57 GMT
doz you cant defend his performance last night. I dont care if he works hard and run around if he cant pass a ball successfully to a teammate 5 metres away. He wasnt the only one guilty of it, but hes so limited as an attacking threat its untrue. And all this about his defensive qualities - the last time he was in our penalty area he scored 2 goals for Chelsea for christ sake. Played on the wing hes bad going forward and a liability going back. Played in the hole or NOT AT ALL. And yet every game he seems to play in 3 different positions just to keep him on the field. Whilst we sub on and off the real wingers and strikers just to find a place for him on the pitch. When was the last time he got subbed off by the way? I don't seek to defend his performance last night mate. He was wank along with several other players who HAVEN'T got threads devoted to their wankness today. He is a serial offender.
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Post by johnbutlershair on Jan 30, 2013 15:26:39 GMT
I don't seek to defend his performance last night mate. He was wank along with several other players who HAVEN'T got threads devoted to their wankness today. He is a serial offender. No he isn't. Again the same as Jones, when we had two fully functional, on form, playing in their natural positions wingers on the pitch Walters looked ten times better. At the minute he's trying to cover the wings, the whole behind Crouch and Jones, something which even the Energiser Bunny would struggle with
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Post by bayernoatcake on Jan 30, 2013 15:27:14 GMT
I don't seek to defend his performance last night mate. He was wank along with several other players who HAVEN'T got threads devoted to their wankness today. Every season we have a scapegoat that when we are shit get singled out. Walters, Foley, Collins, Darel Russell, Delap, Sidibe to name but a few. Collins was not a scapegoat, he was just consistently at fault for goals. Why can people not see that?
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Post by dozintheseventees on Jan 30, 2013 15:29:29 GMT
Every season we have a scapegoat that when we are shit get singled out. Walters, Foley, Collins, Darel Russell, Delap, Sidibe to name but a few. Collins was not a scapegoat, he was just consistently at fault for goals. Why can people not see that? I've long since conceded defeat on that one bayern. ;D 1-1
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Post by johnbutlershair on Jan 30, 2013 15:32:10 GMT
Every season we have a scapegoat that when we are shit get singled out. Walters, Gudjonsson, Foley, Collins, Darel Russell, Delap, Sidibe to name but a few. Collins was not a scapegoat, he was just consistently at fault for goals. Why can people not see that? Collins was shit granted, but even in games where other players were shit as well, he was constantly singled out
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Post by jonnynico on Jan 30, 2013 15:32:47 GMT
At least walters works hard and tries his best. Think we should focus more on players who aint trying there best guys But is his best good enough ?
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Post by bayernoatcake on Jan 30, 2013 15:36:43 GMT
;D Whitehead is garbage too. The sooner people realise the better! Collins was not a scapegoat, he was just consistently at fault for goals. Why can people not see that? Collins was shit granted, but even in games where other players were shit as well, he was constantly singled out Because he'd be shit most weeks and it was blatantly obvious that for me anyway it would wind me up. Much like Walters and Whitehead now. They are the problem, not the solution. And as much as I love Wilko and think he's great defensively, I'm starting to think that yeah if we can get a right back in, get it done. We need a root and branch overhaul to our footballing ethics. Replace the hard work with skill and hard work. The hardest working side in the land is Barcelona, it's needed but we don't balance well enough.
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Post by johnbutlershair on Jan 30, 2013 15:42:04 GMT
;D Whitehead is garbage too. The sooner people realise the better! Collins was shit granted, but even in games where other players were shit as well, he was constantly singled out Because he'd be shit most weeks and it was blatantly obvious that for me anyway it would wind me up. Much like Walters and Whitehead now. They are the problem, not the solution. And as much as I love Wilko and think he's great defensively, I'm starting to think that yeah if we can get a right back in, get it done. We need a root and branch overhaul to our footballing ethics. Replace the hard work with skill and hard work. The hardest working side in the land is Barcelona, it's needed but we don't balance well enough. [/quote] How much is that going to cost? Pulis has backed himself into a corner on this one. Another striker, two full backs, two wingers and a striker are not going to come cheap. Will Sir Peter back him like that financially, and will he sign all the right players? Sadly i think no to both questions. And on a plus side I'm now 3 stars. Do I get a medal?
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Post by Staffsoatcake on Jan 30, 2013 15:44:22 GMT
There are far too many Stoke players who are not Premiership class. Walters,Whielan,Whitehead,Wilko,Shotton,Kightley. Those who are Premiership class are played out of position more often than not. The only reason Pulis has kept us in the Prem,is because every season there have been a few teams who have been worse than us. We could be in trouble if next season there are only one or two worse than us,especialy if Pulis is still in charge.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Jan 30, 2013 15:45:50 GMT
;D Whitehead is garbage too. The sooner people realise the better! Collins was shit granted, but even in games where other players were shit as well, he was constantly singled out Because he'd be shit most weeks and it was blatantly obvious that for me anyway it would wind me up. Much like Walters and Whitehead now. They are the problem, not the solution. And as much as I love Wilko and think he's great defensively, I'm starting to think that yeah if we can get a right back in, get it done. We need a root and branch overhaul to our footballing ethics. Replace the hard work with skill and hard work. The hardest working side in the land is Barcelona, it's needed but we don't balance well enough. How much is that going to cost? Pulis has backed himself into a corner on this one. Another striker, two full backs, two wingers and a striker are not going to come cheap. Will Sir Peter back him like that financially, and will he sign all the right players? Sadly i think no to both questions This is the problem, we've wasted so much money on such technically poor players. Five years into the Premier League and we've still got Whelan starting for us! He's been doing well don't get me wrong but surely we should have been able to do better? And I don't think we should be playing like Barcelona before anyone starts but having more than one player who looks comfortable on the ball would be nice.
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Post by johnbutlershair on Jan 30, 2013 15:53:41 GMT
Because he'd be shit most weeks and it was blatantly obvious that for me anyway it would wind me up. Much like Walters and Whitehead now. They are the problem, not the solution. And as much as I love Wilko and think he's great defensively, I'm starting to think that yeah if we can get a right back in, get it done. We need a root and branch overhaul to our footballing ethics. Replace the hard work with skill and hard work. The hardest working side in the land is Barcelona, it's needed but we don't balance well enough. How much is that going to cost? Pulis has backed himself into a corner on this one. Another striker, two full backs, two wingers and a striker are not going to come cheap. Will Sir Peter back him like that financially, and will he sign all the right players? Sadly i think no to both questions This is the problem, we've wasted so much money on such technically poor players. Five years into the Premier League and we've still got Whelan starting for us! He's been doing well don't get me wrong but surely we should have been able to do better? And I don't think we should be playing like Barcelona before anyone starts but having more than one player who looks comfortable on the ball would be nice. With two technically good wingers I would like to think that the side could look something like this. Lindegaard (part of the Begovic deal) Naughton Huth Shawcross Wilson Bentley??? Nzonzi Adam Phillips Walters Jones. Controversial choices in Bentley and Naughton but I wouldn't mind them
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Post by dozintheseventees on Jan 30, 2013 15:57:38 GMT
Surprisingly, I agree with both Staffsoatcake and bayern when it comes to the lack of technical quality in our players and our ball retention really is pathetic most of the time. I just look at all of the players we've had, particularly since promotion, and (sadly) I can't see it ever changing much under Pulis because he'll continue to sign players of that ilk (IMO). Hopefully we'll sign some that are slightly better at the limited game Pulis believes in but I don't ever see him signing too many 'ball-players'. It really is a sad condemnation of the modern game that I don't, necessarily, see that putting us anywhere near the bottom of the table.
I think the Premier League is a very, very poor league indeed in terms of technical quality.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Jan 30, 2013 16:01:05 GMT
This is the problem, we've wasted so much money on such technically poor players. Five years into the Premier League and we've still got Whelan starting for us! He's been doing well don't get me wrong but surely we should have been able to do better? And I don't think we should be playing like Barcelona before anyone starts but having more than one player who looks comfortable on the ball would be nice. With two technically good wingers I would like to think that the side could look something like this. Lindegaard (part of the Begovic deal) Naughton Huth Shawcross Wilson Bentley??? Nzonzi Adam Phillips Walters Jones. Controversial choices in Bentley and Naughton but I wouldn't mind them We need someone on the right that's for certain. I don't think Adam could play in a midfield two either. I think we need someone like N'Zonzi but more disciplined and then let N'Zonzi get forward more, I think he could be a Yaya figure for us, just not as good obviously. As much as I moan, I don't think we're that far off a decent enough side even with the likes of Wilko (at right back), Whelan and Walters in. The problem at the minute to me seems to be at the top. Now if we could swap Wilko with a full back, Whelan for Mo Diame and Walters for Gylfi Sigurdsson, we'd have the basis of a fookin' awesome side on our hands. Time to stop smoking now I think!
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Post by The Stubborn Optimist on Jan 30, 2013 16:08:25 GMT
The thing is with Walters for all his running around he cannot even defend. He is always in or around his man but never does anything of any note. I agree that he isn't the best full back in the world, or indeed the best defensive midfielder or winger. Perhaps we should expect more from our STRIKERS. We'd be asking him to be making goal-line diving saves with his fingertips if only football's governing body would change the rules for us. Remind me, what position does he play? You ask what position does he play? That's the point though, what position does he play? I, probably along with lots of Stoke fans who watch him, have no idea what he's supposed to be doing. Based on the fact he spends most games running around like some headless chicken I'd suggest he doesn't know either. He lacks pace, he's got the first touch of a rapist, his pass success rate % must be single digit, he can't tackle, he's crap in the air, his vision is on a par with Stevie Wonder and his positional awareness is like a drunk on acid. Other than that he's brilliant.
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Post by jstoke7 on Jan 30, 2013 16:08:41 GMT
Surprisingly, I agree with both Staffsoatcake and bayern when it comes to the lack of technical quality in our players and our ball retention really is pathetic most of the time. I just look at all of the players we've had, particularly since promotion, and (sadly) I can't see it ever changing much under Pulis because he'll continue to sign players of that ilk (IMO). Hopefully we'll sign some that are slightly better at the limited game Pulis believes in but I don't ever see him signing too many 'ball-players'. It really is a sad condemnation of the modern game that I don't, necessarily, see that putting us anywhere near the bottom of the table. I think the Premier League is a very, very poor league indeed in terms of technical quality. I honestly believe our team could play a lot more football than we do. I don't buy this we can't do it because of the players we have, ok we might not be able to do it quite as well as some but we have enough quality players to keep the ball. It's the lack of movement and options that fucks us in possession, not just the lack of quality.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 30, 2013 16:13:10 GMT
We are still lacking pace in midfield which causes so much of the problems.
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Post by dozintheseventees on Jan 30, 2013 16:13:21 GMT
Surprisingly, I agree with both Staffsoatcake and bayern when it comes to the lack of technical quality in our players and our ball retention really is pathetic most of the time. I just look at all of the players we've had, particularly since promotion, and (sadly) I can't see it ever changing much under Pulis because he'll continue to sign players of that ilk (IMO). Hopefully we'll sign some that are slightly better at the limited game Pulis believes in but I don't ever see him signing too many 'ball-players'. It really is a sad condemnation of the modern game that I don't, necessarily, see that putting us anywhere near the bottom of the table. I think the Premier League is a very, very poor league indeed in terms of technical quality. I honestly believe our team could play a lot more football than we do. I don't buy this we can't do it because of the players we have, ok we might not be able to do it quite as well as some but we have enough quality players to keep the ball. It's the lack of movement and options that fucks us in possession, not just the lack of quality. We can be much BETTER than we are mate, I would agree. We can be more exciting, more creative and better to watch but we'll always struggle to out-pass or out-possess most opponents because we DO lack technical quality on the ball. However, as I said earlier, I think the Premier League as a whole lacks quality.
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Post by dozintheseventees on Jan 30, 2013 16:16:08 GMT
I agree that he isn't the best full back in the world, or indeed the best defensive midfielder or winger. Perhaps we should expect more from our STRIKERS. We'd be asking him to be making goal-line diving saves with his fingertips if only football's governing body would change the rules for us. Remind me, what position does he play? You ask what position does he play? That's the point though, what position does he play? I, probably along with lots of Stoke fans who watch him, have no idea what he's supposed to be doing. Based on the fact he spends most games running around like some headless chicken I'd suggest he doesn't know either. He lacks pace, he's got the first touch of a rapist, his pass success rate % must be single digit, he can't tackle, he's crap in the air, his vision is on a par with Stevie Wonder and his positional awareness is like a drunk on acid. Other than that he's brilliant. I'm winning you over aren't I? ;D
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Post by johnbutlershair on Jan 30, 2013 16:16:53 GMT
I honestly believe our team could play a lot more football than we do. I don't buy this we can't do it because of the players we have, ok we might not be able to do it quite as well as some but we have enough quality players to keep the ball. It's the lack of movement and options that fucks us in possession, not just the lack of quality. We can be much BETTER than we are mate, I would agree. We can be more exciting, more creative and better to watch but we'll always struggle to out-pass or out-possess most opponents because we DO lack technical quality on the ball. However, as I said earlier, I think the Premier League as a whole lacks quality. I dont think it does lack that much quality I just think we've become accustomed to it. There's always at least two comparatively poor sides in the top flight every season Swindon, Bradford, Sunderland, Derby, West Brom, Hull and Burnley to name a few the same as every league in the world. The problem is that it's overhyped
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