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Post by Deleted on Oct 22, 2012 20:41:34 GMT
Worth his place at the moment IMO.
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Post by johnnysoul60 on Oct 22, 2012 20:57:56 GMT
great attitude and good team player but missed three very good chances this season , his finishing is currently not good enough , but then only Crouch takes most of his chances
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Post by wardrobe monster on Oct 22, 2012 21:02:13 GMT
To those slating Walters, I'll say this. What does he do for the team? He does exactly what he's asked to do by the manager, giving 110% effort and commitment in the process. He's never done anything other than enjoy his time at Stoke, kept his head down and got on with his job.
So whatever discussions take place reference the merits of having in the team or not hows about showing him some fucking respect?
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Post by redwhite on Oct 22, 2012 21:04:50 GMT
To those slating Walters, I'll say this. What does he do for the team? He does exactly what he's asked to do by the manager, giving 110% effort and commitment in the process. He's never done anything other than enjoy his time at Stoke, kept his head down and got on with his job. So whatever discussions take place reference the merits of having in the team or not hows about showing him some fucking respect? So Pulis asks him to be hopeless at finishing?
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Post by davejohnno1 on Oct 22, 2012 21:05:46 GMT
It is fair to say that he has ZERO confidence in front of goal. He looks shot to pieces in that respect and doesn't look like he has a goal in him from anything other than a foul or a penalty.
I don't rate him but I have said myself what is said immediately above...He does exactly what the manager asks of him and he gives his very best effort in doing so.
If people think he isn't pulling his weight or performing as he should, then the finger of blame should be pointed at the manager rather than the player in all honesty.
He needs to perform WITH THE BALL over the course of our next 5 or 6 fixtures and if he doesn't, he needs to face a spell on the bench.
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Post by boskampsflaps on Oct 22, 2012 21:24:22 GMT
All he needs is a treadmill and Jon will be happy,he clearly aint happy when he has a ball at his feet because his finishing is pathetic and crucially its costing us big time. Lowest scorers again this season if he continues in the team unless we get a penalty in every game from now on. He has no composure or technique when striking a ball and he's a forward ffs!!! Time to play A REAL GOAL SCORER!!!To play on the right? So you want to have a square peg in a round hole? Have you not been moaning about this for ever.
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Post by Pugsley on Oct 22, 2012 21:48:07 GMT
thankfully Pulis understands what he brings to the team, even if some of our supporters don't All I hear from the likes of you is 'you don't understand what he brings to the team...' Etc etc. why don't you explain it to us all then?
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Post by Deleted on Oct 22, 2012 22:04:33 GMT
I don't think he's worth his place at all. The basic fact is that Walters simply isn't quick enough and added to this is the fact that his skill level isn't exactly the best either. His only plus point is his enthusiasm to chase back and tackle into midfield areas. The very same midfield area that is now much much better in terms of quality and therefore he is has become superfluous to requirements. When you look at the likes of much quicker players like Jerome on the bench , it begs the question of why is this.?
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Post by SCFC92 on Oct 22, 2012 22:33:05 GMT
scfcbiancorossi, I think there is no other answer than he works aaard so far on the thread... I have noticed what he does, he takes the ball from defense (when we are defending) and runs it forward, breaks up play a few times and generally gets himself in the way, however I agree for us now with the likes of N'Zonzi, Adam, Kightly etc in the squad we should really be using our second Striker slot for another striker to play off or with Crouch... but until the current system shows up as not working.. why change it? The biggest test is coming up in my opinion, how we perform against those around us, we've come out of a tough start not smelling of shit and that is down to a solid system which has worked, all the players (walters included) deserve a chance against the "lesser" teams, if it doesn't work fix it...
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Post by scfcbiancorossi on Oct 22, 2012 22:36:18 GMT
Great Player, Great Attitude, 100% EVERY game, Looking brilliant as a wide man, Does a cracking job in about 3/4 positions and is a lovely guy (met him twice) who appreciates being a professional footballer after his set backs he has had. Please stop the bashing because without him....we would miss him massively. Keep it up SJW! Thought we missed him massively when we were playing with Jones/Fuller Mama/Fuller up front. If anything i'd rather Mama these days its got that bad for him. At least the big man looked slightly threatening in the opposition penalty area ;D
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Post by scfcbiancorossi on Oct 22, 2012 22:37:53 GMT
scfcbiancorossi, I think there is no other answer than he works aaard so far on the thread... I have noticed what he does, he takes the ball from defense (when we are defending) and runs it forward, breaks up play a few times and generally gets himself in the way, however I agree for us now with the likes of N'Zonzi, Adam, Kightly etc in the squad we should really be using our second Striker slot for another striker to play off or with Crouch... but until the current system shows up as not working.. why change it? The biggest test is coming up in my opinion, how we perform against those around us, we've come out of a tough start not smelling of shit and that is down to a solid system which has worked, all the players (walters included) deserve a chance against the "lesser" teams, if it doesn't work fix it... Fine but I just dont see why we need him against lesser teams.
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Post by Olgrligm on Oct 22, 2012 22:43:07 GMT
scfcbiancorossi, I think there is no other answer than he works aaard so far on the thread... I have noticed what he does, he takes the ball from defense (when we are defending) and runs it forward, breaks up play a few times and generally gets himself in the way, however I agree for us now with the likes of N'Zonzi, Adam, Kightly etc in the squad we should really be using our second Striker slot for another striker to play off or with Crouch... but until the current system shows up as not working.. why change it? The biggest test is coming up in my opinion, how we perform against those around us, we've come out of a tough start not smelling of shit and that is down to a solid system which has worked, all the players (walters included) deserve a chance against the "lesser" teams, if it doesn't work fix it... He's not playing as a second striker though, is he? He's playing as a winger/inside forward. If you're suggesting that we should go back to a 4-4-1-1/4-4-2 (or a more classic 4-4-1-1 with an actual striker, for you formation pedants out there ), I wouldn't be so quick to dispense with our midfield three. It's the only way I can see Adam working in our set-up and it's produced some improved performances to date.
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Post by fca47 on Oct 22, 2012 22:47:56 GMT
If Walters is not there to score goals, who is? are relying entirely on Crouch. His overall play isn't bad but his finishing is poor. As said above he has missed game changing goals this year, on a regular basis.
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Post by SCFC92 on Oct 22, 2012 22:55:53 GMT
scfcbiancorossi, I think there is no other answer than he works aaard so far on the thread... I have noticed what he does, he takes the ball from defense (when we are defending) and runs it forward, breaks up play a few times and generally gets himself in the way, however I agree for us now with the likes of N'Zonzi, Adam, Kightly etc in the squad we should really be using our second Striker slot for another striker to play off or with Crouch... but until the current system shows up as not working.. why change it? The biggest test is coming up in my opinion, how we perform against those around us, we've come out of a tough start not smelling of shit and that is down to a solid system which has worked, all the players (walters included) deserve a chance against the "lesser" teams, if it doesn't work fix it... He's not playing as a second striker though, is he? He's playing as a winger/inside forward. If you're suggesting that we should go back to a 4-4-1-1/4-4-2 (or a more classic 4-4-1-1 with an actual striker, for you formation pedants out there ), I wouldn't be so quick to dispense with our midfield three. It's the only way I can see Adam working in our set-up and it's produced some improved performances to date. A decision I'm more than happy to leave to Pulis ;D then bollock him if he cocks it up!
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Post by shiftyfifty on Oct 22, 2012 22:59:24 GMT
All you walters bashers should really WATCH what he does on the pitch and what he brings to the team! Hes on the wing, in mid field in defense, he is our most productive player in the team fact! We would be weaker without him. I wouldn't bother mate, I've come to the conclusion that they don't want to see what he contributes.
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Post by scfcbiancorossi on Oct 22, 2012 23:18:11 GMT
All you walters bashers should really WATCH what he does on the pitch and what he brings to the team! Hes on the wing, in mid field in defense, he is our most productive player in the team fact! We would be weaker without him. I wouldn't bother mate, I've come to the conclusion that they don't want to see what he contributes. Why dont you stop harping on about what he contributes or tell us exactly what it is he contributes apart from hard work? Explain yourself if you would. You're not adding much to the debate by simply saying "he contributes loads" without explaining anything about how he contributes ;D
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Post by scfcbiancorossi on Oct 22, 2012 23:20:38 GMT
Worth his place at the moment IMO. On what basis though Rob? Hes been pretty woeful in possession and in front of goal, and is keeping others out the side. He needs to learn off Kightly who is looking a fine player.
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Post by shiftyfifty on Oct 22, 2012 23:26:20 GMT
I wouldn't bother mate, I've come to the conclusion that they don't want to see what he contributes. Why dont you stop harping on about what he contributes or tell us exactly what it is he contributes apart from hard work? Explain yourself if you would. You're not adding much to the debate by simply saying "he contributes loads" without explaining anything about how he contributes ;D ;D You're not contributing to a debate if you're quoting things I've not said. ;D Also as I HAVE said, there's no point in explaining what he contributes to you.
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Post by justinp on Oct 23, 2012 0:09:36 GMT
All you walters bashers should really WATCH what he does on the pitch and what he brings to the team! Hes on the wing, in mid field in defense, he is our most productive player in the team fact! We would be weaker without him. We were weaker without him on Saturday, after he went off we had nothing going forward.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 23, 2012 7:18:01 GMT
Worth his place at the moment IMO. On what basis though Rob? Hes been pretty woeful in possession and in front of goal, and is keeping others out the side. He needs to learn off Kightly who is looking a fine player. Who is he keeping out of the side exactly? I like Jerome, but beyond pace he'd offer nothing out there that Walters doesn't, it's essentially a coin toss situation between the two. Etherington looks a spent force, so who does that leave? When he's played this season, in addition to the shift you take as a given with him, he's actually been fairly neat with his link play and worked well with Crouch and Kightly. There are better players out there and long term his place has to be up for grabs if we're looking to keep improving, but for now he's playing well and is contributing to the team playing well, and I'm a firm believer that you don't drop players who are playing well. Taking the season as a whole, Kightly hasn't been markedly better than him.
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Post by foxysgloves on Oct 23, 2012 8:18:24 GMT
On what basis though Rob? Hes been pretty woeful in possession and in front of goal, and is keeping others out the side. He needs to learn off Kightly who is looking a fine player. Who is he keeping out of the side exactly? I like Jerome, but beyond pace he'd offer nothing out there that Walters doesn't, it's essentially a coin toss situation between the two. Etherington looks a spent force, so who does that leave? When he's played this season, in addition to the shift you take as a given with him, he's actually been fairly neat with his link play and worked well with Crouch and Kightly. There are better players out there and long term his place has to be up for grabs if we're looking to keep improving, but for now he's playing well and is contributing to the team playing well, and I'm a firm believer that you don't drop players who are playing well. Taking the season as a whole, Kightly hasn't been markedly better than him. A sensible, balanced view. Just what the Oatcake MB is famed for. Fact is, Walters has earned his place this season.....as a right winger/inside forward. Unfortunately his goals to games ratio is poor. Having said that, Pennant was hardly a goal scoring machine from the same position.
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Post by scfcbiancorossi on Oct 23, 2012 9:46:59 GMT
On what basis though Rob? Hes been pretty woeful in possession and in front of goal, and is keeping others out the side. He needs to learn off Kightly who is looking a fine player. Who is he keeping out of the side exactly? I like Jerome, but beyond pace he'd offer nothing out there that Walters doesn't, it's essentially a coin toss situation between the two. Etherington looks a spent force, so who does that leave? When he's played this season, in addition to the shift you take as a given with him, he's actually been fairly neat with his link play and worked well with Crouch and Kightly. There are better players out there and long term his place has to be up for grabs if we're looking to keep improving, but for now he's playing well and is contributing to the team playing well, and I'm a firm believer that you don't drop players who are playing well. Taking the season as a whole, Kightly hasn't been markedly better than him. This just isnt the case though Rob. Its become pretty noticeable, particularly in our home games, that pretty much all our good link up play has come on the right hand side between Cameron, Kightly and Adam and it is no coincidence that we look infinitely more dangerous on this side of the pitch. You say Kightly hasnt been markedly better than him but hes been twice as threatening. Simply because hes not afraid to have a go...he will run at players and fans dont mind it if every now and then you get tackled...its all about positive play and Walters is probably as negative a footballer as i've seen. I might be wrong but I'm pretty sure Cresswell has a better championship goal return than him...and it does make you wonder, what was the point in selling Richard just to replace him with a replica !
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Post by scfcbiancorossi on Oct 23, 2012 9:49:47 GMT
Who is he keeping out of the side exactly? I like Jerome, but beyond pace he'd offer nothing out there that Walters doesn't, it's essentially a coin toss situation between the two. Etherington looks a spent force, so who does that leave? When he's played this season, in addition to the shift you take as a given with him, he's actually been fairly neat with his link play and worked well with Crouch and Kightly. There are better players out there and long term his place has to be up for grabs if we're looking to keep improving, but for now he's playing well and is contributing to the team playing well, and I'm a firm believer that you don't drop players who are playing well. Taking the season as a whole, Kightly hasn't been markedly better than him. A sensible, balanced view. Just what the Oatcake MB is famed for. Fact is, Walters has earned his place this season.....as a right winger/inside forward. Unfortunately his goals to games ratio is poor. Having said that, Pennant was hardly a goal scoring machine from the same position. I love how some posters say this...a "sensible" view simply on the basis that it agrees with their own. Can such posters also stop going on about Pennant not scoring goals...how many did he create and how many games did he single handedly change. I used a good example earlier...remember Villa away last season? We were pretty shocking until he came on. Granted he has off the field problems but to even put him in the same bracket as Walters in terms of ability is simply insulting to the game and pretty foolish if you dont mind me saying. Theres a pretty good reason why Pennant has played for the likes of Arsenal and Liverpool and why Walters has spent his career in the lower leagues. Why does it take posters like yourself an eternity to realise i'm right. Rob I have to include you in this as well ;D You were both harping on about how Delap should be in the side this time last season when it was obvious he was not good enough. Ultimately I was right...and i'm pretty confident i'm right about this. Walters works hard, but ultimately isnt good enough at this level.
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Post by foxysgloves on Oct 23, 2012 10:01:03 GMT
A sensible, balanced view. Just what the Oatcake MB is famed for. Fact is, Walters has earned his place this season.....as a right winger/inside forward. Unfortunately his goals to games ratio is poor. Having said that, Pennant was hardly a goal scoring machine from the same position. I love how some posters say this...a "sensible" view simply on the basis that it agrees with their own. Can such posters also stop going on about Pennant not scoring goals...how many did he create and how many games did he single handedly change. I used a good example earlier...remember Villa away last season? We were pretty shocking until he came on. Granted he has off the field problems but to even put him in the same bracket as Walters in terms of ability is simply insulting to the game and pretty foolish if you dont mind me saying. Balance = there are better players out there, we should aim to get better, currently though he's doing well and doesn't deserve dropping. I don't know? How many games did Pennant singlehandedly change? You tell me, I haven't seen that statistic anywhere. Where have I mentioned Walters and Pennant being of similar ability? They are totally different players. Both have strengths, both have weaknesses. Some may suggest its foolish to fail to see that Walters has achieved a level of consistency this season that deserves positive recognition rather than hammering him for what he isn't, nor will ever be.
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Post by billybigballs on Oct 23, 2012 10:02:08 GMT
A sensible, balanced view. Just what the Oatcake MB is famed for. Fact is, Walters has earned his place this season.....as a right winger/inside forward. Unfortunately his goals to games ratio is poor. Having said that, Pennant was hardly a goal scoring machine from the same position. I love how some posters say this...a "sensible" view simply on the basis that it agrees with their own. Can such posters also stop going on about Pennant not scoring goals...how many did he create and how many games did he single handedly change. I used a good example earlier...remember Villa away last season? We were pretty shocking until he came on. Granted he has off the field problems but to even put him in the same bracket as Walters in terms of ability is simply insulting to the game and pretty foolish if you dont mind me saying. Theres a pretty good reason why Pennant has played for the likes of Arsenal and Liverpool and why Walters has spent his career in the lower leagues. Why does it take posters like yourself an eternity to realise i'm right. Rob I have to include you in this as well ;D You were both harping on about how Delap should be in the side this time last season when it was obvious he was not good enough. Ultimately I was right...and i'm pretty confident i'm right about this. Walters works hard, but ultimately isnt good enough at this level. Exactly, Pennant is one of the most naturally talented players this country has produced in the past 10 years or so, but if it was just about ability he would still be at Arsenal or another top club. Pennant fucked his career up a long time ago and has blown chance after chance not only here but at every club hes been at. Theres a good reason why hes now at Wolves and why no other premier league club came in for him during the summer. This new formation suits Walters, theres massive improvement on last season, i don't get the abuse hes getting, although it does seem to be coming from the usual suspects who look for any opportunity to have a go at Pulis.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 23, 2012 10:13:51 GMT
Who is he keeping out of the side exactly? I like Jerome, but beyond pace he'd offer nothing out there that Walters doesn't, it's essentially a coin toss situation between the two. Etherington looks a spent force, so who does that leave? When he's played this season, in addition to the shift you take as a given with him, he's actually been fairly neat with his link play and worked well with Crouch and Kightly. There are better players out there and long term his place has to be up for grabs if we're looking to keep improving, but for now he's playing well and is contributing to the team playing well, and I'm a firm believer that you don't drop players who are playing well. Taking the season as a whole, Kightly hasn't been markedly better than him. This just isnt the case though Rob. Its become pretty noticeable, particularly in our home games, that pretty much all our good link up play has come on the right hand side between Cameron, Kightly and Adam and it is no coincidence that we look infinitely more dangerous on this side of the pitch. You say Kightly hasnt been markedly better than him but hes been twice as threatening. Simply because hes not afraid to have a go...he will run at players and fans dont mind it if every now and then you get tackled...its all about positive play and Walters is probably as negative a footballer as i've seen. I might be wrong but I'm pretty sure Cresswell has a better championship goal return than him...and it does make you wonder, what was the point in selling Richard just to replace him with a replica ! Kightly has been full of running but with precious little end product outside of Saturday's game. Walters has contributed plenty, he was involved in both goals against Swansea, he's getting into good positions and caused both Manchester clubs problems. He needs phasing out but at the moment he's doing fine.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 23, 2012 10:15:48 GMT
A sensible, balanced view. Just what the Oatcake MB is famed for. Fact is, Walters has earned his place this season.....as a right winger/inside forward. Unfortunately his goals to games ratio is poor. Having said that, Pennant was hardly a goal scoring machine from the same position. I love how some posters say this...a "sensible" view simply on the basis that it agrees with their own. Can such posters also stop going on about Pennant not scoring goals...how many did he create and how many games did he single handedly change. I used a good example earlier...remember Villa away last season? We were pretty shocking until he came on. Granted he has off the field problems but to even put him in the same bracket as Walters in terms of ability is simply insulting to the game and pretty foolish if you dont mind me saying. Theres a pretty good reason why Pennant has played for the likes of Arsenal and Liverpool and why Walters has spent his career in the lower leagues. Why does it take posters like yourself an eternity to realise i'm right. Rob I have to include you in this as well ;D You were both harping on about how Delap should be in the side this time last season when it was obvious he was not good enough. Ultimately I was right...and i'm pretty confident i'm right about this. Walters works hard, but ultimately isnt good enough at this level. Delap was playing well when you were whining about him Nick. You have your favourites who can do no wrong and your scapegoats who can do no right. The truth is usually closer to the middle ground. Credit where it's due and all that. Who is Walters keeping out of the team?
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Post by roylandstoke on Oct 23, 2012 10:16:22 GMT
Walters does what TP asks of him. His work rate is Premier class, everything else about his game isn't.
Teams that can't keep the ball need runners to get it back and to fill holes in their overworked defences. Over recent years we have been a team who has struggled to keep the ball we have therefore needed to pick players like Jon Walters and Richard Cresswell. This season with N'Zonzi, Adam in midfield to help complement Whelan, and maybe even a fit for purpose Palacios, with full backs who seem more comfortable with the ball at their feet we seem better at keeping the ball. Maybe we could be evolving? If that is the case then we shouldn't really be seeing so much of Jon Walters. Personally I think TP will persevere with SJW for quite a few more years yet.
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Post by stokelad84 on Oct 23, 2012 10:23:18 GMT
That's true bbb.
The new system puts a lot of strain on our wide men, so it's no surprise TP has picked the 2 fittest up to now. One minute they are in a full back position, the next then have ran the length of the pitch to support Crouch. Last time Pennant had to do that he was moaning on Twitter about being a right back.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 23, 2012 10:30:56 GMT
I'd like to see us back in for Olsson to play on the left in January.
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