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Post by Countydog on Nov 17, 2011 17:01:34 GMT
I think in todays society we disproportionately punish people for racism - and before anyone accuses me of being a racist stop right there because I am not at all. I have many friends from many different backgrounds and absolutely do not have a racist bone in my body.
Everyone is outraged because of the recent accusations of Suarez and Terry but is this really justified? Yes its wrong and yes its unacceptable but ultimately these examples are just personal insults using words in a similar way to someone calling be a ginger c££t (yes im a ginge !). I can cope with that - broad shoulders needed. Im not paranoid and really don't care.
Lots of ethnicities from different backgrounds are a little bit paranoid in todays day and age. Talk of life bans even ten game bans are excessive in my opinion. It seems to me that a nasty assault without the racist element would be less punishable than someone using the N word - that to me is not right.
All these anti racism campaigns are a little bit excessive in my eyes. We don't need it ramming down our throat every game we go to - we all know by now or certainly should do what is unacceptable.
For John Terry and Suarez to receive disproportionate bans is purely because of the way society has gone and the taboo that is racism. The PC brigade has gone overboard with this and to me its disproportionate - it is unacceptable granted but its not the crime of the century either.
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Orfuss
Youth Player
Who wants some?
Posts: 441
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Post by Orfuss on Nov 17, 2011 17:06:00 GMT
I spoke about this on another thread, but in short the main reason is because some groups, such as Blacks, have been hugely wronged in the past (genocide, rape, slavery). Due to this I think society as a whole sees people using the fact someone is from one as these groups as a derogatory term as offensive. More offensive than fat, bald, ginger for the reasons I say above.
It's a sort of super conscience. This isn't the only reason but I think it's a contributing factor, see my other posts for more lengthy reasoning
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Post by Lakeland Potter on Nov 17, 2011 17:12:02 GMT
I'm sure the severe punishments (when they are applied) is because society (rightly in my opinion) is concerned that racist insults, if not punished severely, can lead to a culture where racial violence becomes more common.
Let's not forget that the murderer(s) of Stephen Lawrence allegedly made a racist comment just before they stabbed him. It is much the same with homphobic insults. I knew a gay bloke in Plymouth who was stabbed by a youth who first taunted him about being gay. One thing can lead to another ...........
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Post by pittshillplotter on Nov 17, 2011 17:18:58 GMT
I think in todays society we disproportionately punish people for racism - and before anyone accuses me of being a racist stop right there because I am not at all. I have many friends from many different backgrounds and absolutely do not have a racist bone in my body. Everyone is outraged because of the recent accusations of Suarez and Terry but is this really justified? Yes its wrong and yes its unacceptable but ultimately these examples are just personal insults using words in a similar way to someone calling be a ginger c££t (yes im a ginge !). I can cope with that - broad shoulders needed. Im not paranoid and really don't care. Lots of ethnicities from different backgrounds are a little bit paranoid in todays day and age. Talk of life bans even ten game bans are excessive in my opinion. It seems to me that a nasty assault without the racist element would be less punishable than someone using the N word - that to me is not right. All these anti racism campaigns are a little bit excessive in my eyes. We don't need it ramming down our throat every game we go to - we all know by now or certainly should do what is unacceptable. For John Terry and Suarez to receive disproportionate bans is purely because of the way society has gone and the taboo that is racism. The PC brigade has gone overboard with this and to me its disproportionate - it is unacceptable granted but its not the crime of the century either. I completely agree. We are afterall dealing with the constant publicity of such issues on a day to day basis. Everything these days is forced down your throat (no gay pun intended)   |
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Post by Binndy on Nov 17, 2011 17:23:36 GMT
Maybe FIFA should publish a list of social principles that should be abided to by players and supporters, worldwide , inside and the surrounding area of a stadium. A banner saying FIFA are anti racist is one thing a list of principles and consequences is another.
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Post by Stafford-Stokie on Nov 17, 2011 17:24:47 GMT
I think in todays society we disproportionately punish people for racism - and before anyone accuses me of being a racist stop right there because I am not at all. I have many friends from many different backgrounds and absolutely do not have a racist bone in my body. Everyone is outraged because of the recent accusations of Suarez and Terry but is this really justified? Yes its wrong and yes its unacceptable but ultimately these examples are just personal insults using words in a similar way to someone calling be a ginger c££t (yes im a ginge !). I can cope with that - broad shoulders needed. Im not paranoid and really don't care. Lots of ethnicities from different backgrounds are a little bit paranoid in todays day and age. Talk of life bans even ten game bans are excessive in my opinion. It seems to me that a nasty assault without the racist element would be less punishable than someone using the N word - that to me is not right. All these anti racism campaigns are a little bit excessive in my eyes. We don't need it ramming down our throat every game we go to - we all know by now or certainly should do what is unacceptable. For John Terry and Suarez to receive disproportionate bans is purely because of the way society has gone and the taboo that is racism. The PC brigade has gone overboard with this and to me its disproportionate - it is unacceptable granted but its not the crime of the century either. That is more or less what I have been trying to say but couldn't find the right words. ;D |
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Post by PotterLog on Nov 17, 2011 17:32:10 GMT
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Post by greyman on Nov 17, 2011 17:35:54 GMT
I think SS is right. Players should be allowed to call black players 'niggers' and 'fucking black cunts' without consequences. It's political correctness gone mad when you can't be poisonously racist to people whenever you feel like it. Every time I order a curry I'm careful to call the waiters 'dirty paki bastards' to their faces to keep them on their toes. I knew one at work once, so I'm not racist.
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Post by Stafford-Stokie on Nov 17, 2011 17:38:51 GMT
I think SS is right. Players should be allowed to call black players 'niggers' and 'fucking black cunts' without consequences. It's political correctness gone mad when you can't be poisonously racist to people whenever you feel like it. Every time I order a curry I'm careful to call the waiters 'dirty paki bastards' to their faces to keep them on their toes. I knew one at work once, so I'm not racist. ??????????????? |
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Post by rorymscfc on Nov 17, 2011 17:43:44 GMT
The only disproportionate aspect to this this is that for making the same comment a player (Terry or Suarez) can expect a 5-10 game ban at worst whereas a fan in the stands can expect a lifetime ban.
One of these is either far too lenient or far too severe but I'll leave it to others to decide which is which.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 17, 2011 17:59:22 GMT
There is absolutely NO excuse for racism in any shape or form. Its despicable, horrid and unacceptable. If Suarez or Terry are found guilty no punishment in my opinion is too severe.
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Post by Paul Spencer on Nov 17, 2011 18:07:41 GMT
I think in todays society we disproportionately punish people for racism - and before anyone accuses me of being a racist stop right there because I am not at all. I have many friends from many different backgrounds and absolutely do not have a racist bone in my body. Everyone is outraged because of the recent accusations of Suarez and Terry but is this really justified? Yes its wrong and yes its unacceptable but ultimately these examples are just personal insults using words in a similar way to someone calling be a ginger c££t (yes im a ginge !). I can cope with that - broad shoulders needed. Im not paranoid and really don't care. Lots of ethnicities from different backgrounds are a little bit paranoid in todays day and age. Talk of life bans even ten game bans are excessive in my opinion. It seems to me that a nasty assault without the racist element would be less punishable than someone using the N word - that to me is not right. All these anti racism campaigns are a little bit excessive in my eyes. We don't need it ramming down our throat every game we go to - we all know by now or certainly should do what is unacceptable. For John Terry and Suarez to receive disproportionate bans is purely because of the way society has gone and the taboo that is racism. The PC brigade has gone overboard with this and to me its disproportionate - it is unacceptable granted but its not the crime of the century either. And there was me thinking this thead was going to be about all those people who are currently serving lengthy bans from football stadia up and down the country for being racist. A footballer is no different to you or I. If I can be banned from a football ground for a very, very long time for being racist, then somebody is going to have to come up with one helluva an argument to convince me that a footballer should be treated any differently to me. |
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Post by kylelightbourne on Nov 17, 2011 18:09:34 GMT
If you knew anything of racism you would not compare it to calling someone ginger. Fucking ridiculous comparison and I'm not going to explain why, if you cant work out the difference for yourself then I'm not wasting my time talking to such idiots. Fuck all to do with political correctness, its a matter of living in a civilized society. Anyone with half a brain should see racism is the most ridiculous thing in existence In my eyes anyone holding racist views is incredibly unintelligent and I pity them, unfortunately that doesnt excuse them though. And you may argue one comment doesn't equate to being racist and fair enough but the thought of using the colour of someones skin as a way of insulting them is just as bad, in all honestly the whole concept baffles and disgusts me in equal measure
Off topic but a lengthy ban for these pair of cunts (Terry and Suarez) would benefit the premiership immensely
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Post by Deleted on Nov 17, 2011 18:14:07 GMT
The problem is where do you draw the line? Abusive language, racist or not should be dealt with properly, however football seems to be above the law these days and you can get away with practically murder if you can kick a ball well. As well, because football's got so many different countries and ethnicities in it now that players don't know where to stand. Obviously, most people and I use most for a reason here, know that racism is disgusting and completely unacceptable but for players/people of different cultures and backgrounds, what they get away with in their country may not be acceptable over here. It's a tough call.
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Post by greyman on Nov 17, 2011 18:16:14 GMT
SS
Nobody is claiming that it's the crime of the century but if everybody knew what was unacceptable, Terry and Suarez wouldn't have said what they did, Blatter would have kept his mouth shut and I wouldn't have to listen to some of the filth I still have to hear at grounds. This is one of those things that the FA can stamp out here and now for good with an appropriate ban. They can strip Terry of the England captaincy while they're at it as well.
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Post by heavysoul on Nov 17, 2011 18:16:27 GMT
I think in todays society we disproportionately punish people for racism - and before anyone accuses me of being a racist stop right there because I am not at all. I have many friends from many different backgrounds and absolutely do not have a racist bone in my body. Everyone is outraged because of the recent accusations of Suarez and Terry but is this really justified? Yes its wrong and yes its unacceptable but ultimately these examples are just personal insults using words in a similar way to someone calling be a ginger c££t (yes im a ginge !). I can cope with that - broad shoulders needed. Im not paranoid and really don't care. Lots of ethnicities from different backgrounds are a little bit paranoid in todays day and age. Talk of life bans even ten game bans are excessive in my opinion. It seems to me that a nasty assault without the racist element would be less punishable than someone using the N word - that to me is not right. All these anti racism campaigns are a little bit excessive in my eyes. We don't need it ramming down our throat every game we go to - we all know by now or certainly should do what is unacceptable. For John Terry and Suarez to receive disproportionate bans is purely because of the way society has gone and the taboo that is racism. The PC brigade has gone overboard with this and to me its disproportionate - it is unacceptable granted but its not the crime of the century either. . Just read a little of what you have posted and thought how sad! You obviously do not see what racism is and the effects of it on people from black and ethic backgrounds. Again how sad! |
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Post by cobhamstokey on Nov 17, 2011 18:22:15 GMT
The only disproportionate aspect to this this is that for making the same comment a player (Terry or Suarez) can expect a 5-10 game ban at worst whereas a fan in the stands can expect a lifetime ban. One of these is either far too lenient or far too severe but I'll leave it to others to decide which is which. Spot on. In the same respect that if you got a criminal record or were sent to prison you would lose your job. Not like footballers who look on it as a minor inconvenience. It all comes down to money in the end and who you are. Look at the way Gerrard got away with that assault and he's not the only one. Like the great moral crusader Ferdinand who got away lightly after deliberatley missing a drugs test. In my opinion racism has no place in football and all offenders should be given bans ranging from minimum of a season to a maximum of life. If Terry is found guilty such is his high profile he should never play for England again and be banned from football for 5 years. |
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Post by manchesterpotter on Nov 17, 2011 18:34:37 GMT
The only disproportionate aspect to this this is that for making the same comment a player (Terry or Suarez) can expect a 5-10 game ban at worst whereas a fan in the stands can expect a lifetime ban. One of these is either far too lenient or far too severe but I'll leave it to others to decide which is which. Spot on. In my opinion, footballers who use racist abuse should get much stiffer punishments than fans that do the same. These people are well aware that they are role models for many people and they should know that they have a responsibility to behave in a decent manner. Sadly, very few of them do. |
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Post by onionman on Nov 17, 2011 18:37:39 GMT
If you knew anything of racism you would not compare it to calling someone ginger. Fucking ridiculous comparison and I'm not going to explain why, if you cant work out the difference for yourself then I'm not wasting my time talking to such idiots. Fuck all to do with political correctness, its a matter of living in a civilized society. Anyone with half a brain should see racism is the most ridiculous thing in existence In my eyes anyone holding racist views is incredibly unintelligent and I pity them, unfortunately that doesnt excuse them though. And you may argue one comment doesn't equate to being racist and fair enough but the thought of using the colour of someones skin as a way of insulting them is just as bad, in all honestly the whole concept baffles and disgusts me in equal measure Off topic but a lengthy ban for these pair of cunts (Terry and Suarez) would benefit the premiership immensely Very well put, and I'd add ignorant and cowardly to incredibly unintelligent. Although to be fair maybe I missed the history lesson when they taught how millions of ginger people were persecuted and enslaved and the resulting legacy of discrimination and prejudice today.  |
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Post by surreystokie on Nov 17, 2011 22:41:11 GMT
My greatest concern is that OTT responses or some suggested punishments on here and elsewhere, will actually have an adverse effect. Times have inarguably changed for the better re racism and no good will come from terrorising the ignorant/wicked/unintelligent into submission.
I agree that there is no justification for giving supporters lifelong bans and players relatively ineffective ones. What should be being questioned, however, is whether the punishment given to supporters is too draconian and to players, too weak. Also to be asked is what is happening to the 'second chance' directive of which our country used to be so proud?
To effectively destroy a person's life, both with regard to credibility, social standing and finance, in an instant, of one who was a prime leader in working with black players when, as John Barnes said this week, an emotional outburst is no guarantee of racism, should be a concern. That no-one dared to object, was extremely worrying.
Lee Hughes is back in football, despite killing someone (unintentionally but utterly irresponsibly) yet Ron Atkinson (he referred to above) was hounded into anonymity at a stroke.
I ask that you think about it.
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Post by cobhamstokey on Nov 17, 2011 22:48:03 GMT
My greatest concern is that OTT responses or some suggested punishments on here and elsewhere, will actually have an adverse effect. Times have inarguably changed for the better re racism and no good will come from terrorising the ignorant/wicked/unintelligent into submission. I agree that there is no justification for giving supporters lifelong bans and players relatively ineffective ones. What should be being questioned, however, is whether the punishment given to supporters is too draconian and to players, too weak. Also to be asked is what is happening to the 'second chance' directive of which our country used to be so proud? To effectively destroy a person's life, both with regard to credibility, social standing and finance, in an instant, of one who was a prime leader in working with black players when, as John Barnes said this week, an emotional outburst is no guarantee of racism, should be a concern. That no-one dared to object, was extremely worrying. Lee Hughes is back in football, despite killing someone (unintentionally but utterly irresponsibly) yet Ron Atkinson (he referred to above) was hounded into anonymity at a stroke. I ask that you think about it. Very well put Surrey and as I stated above Ferdinand isn't exactly an angel and missed a drugs test only to be given another chance after a small ban. |
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Post by pittshillplotter on Nov 17, 2011 22:54:19 GMT
I would just like to draw to your attention that it is footballers that we are dealing with here.
I'm not wishing to appear snobbish or condescending but what they say or do does not really represent the whole of society and furthermore they are not exactly the brightest bunch of individuals on the whole. All that said, they are seen as 'role models' and therefore they should act in a more responsible manner given the extortionate wages they are on.
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Post by scfcno1fan on Nov 17, 2011 23:02:16 GMT
We are on a downward spiral.
Racism (along with many things) will unfortunately only get worse and worse as we prepare to enter into the abyss of a worldwide economic collapse.
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Post by Paul Spencer on Nov 17, 2011 23:59:09 GMT
My greatest concern is that OTT responses or some suggested punishments on here and elsewhere, will actually have an adverse effect. Times have inarguably changed for the better re racism and no good will come from terrorising the ignorant/wicked/unintelligent into submission. I agree that there is no justification for giving supporters lifelong bans and players relatively ineffective ones. What should be being questioned, however, is whether the punishment given to supporters is too draconian and to players, too weak. Also to be asked is what is happening to the 'second chance' directive of which our country used to be so proud? To effectively destroy a person's life, both with regard to credibility, social standing and finance, in an instant, of one who was a prime leader in working with black players when, as John Barnes said this week, an emotional outburst is no guarantee of racism, should be a concern. That no-one dared to object, was extremely worrying. Lee Hughes is back in football, despite killing someone (unintentionally but utterly irresponsibly) yet Ron Atkinson (he referred to above) was hounded into anonymity at a stroke. I ask that you think about it. But I don't recall any drive to reduce the punishments that have been dished out to the 'ordinary' guy in the stands for being a racist in a football ground in the past. However once a 'celebrity' (the footballer) gets caught out for the same offence, then everybody's not so sure. There are fourteen year olds in this country who have been given banning orders for being racists in football grounds - a precedent (very much) has been set. If at some stage we want to have a discussion about altering the punishments for future examples of racism, then fine but as of right now, I (very strongly) believe that EVERYBODY (and that includes footballers) should be treated in the same way as others who have gone before them. If they aren't, then we'll be presented with a lack of equality in the eyes of the law, whilst (ironically) attempting to protect equality regardless of the colour of a person's skin. |
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Post by smokey on Nov 18, 2011 10:26:02 GMT
I think anyone who says that punishments for racism is NOT disproportionate are digging their heads in the sand, the fact is people are getting one, two and three match bans for career threatening, dangerous, harmful tackles. Tackles which can ruin lives, lose players millions, wreck careers and effect their ability to perform simple everyday tasks such as walking, running or bending. Compare this to a harmless insult, yes that is all it is..an insult, a vile one at that, but a name call, a childish insult and we have people getting 6 match bans with talk of worse. Its seriously over the top. Being called a white bastard or paki cunt to me is on a par with being called a ginger tosser, thick blonde or midget twat. No-one can help whether they are white, black, ginger, blonde or short, its a namecall, we need to stop being so paranoid and sensitive, they are insults, they don't harm you or effect your life unless you let them, sticks and stones etc, there are much bigger problems such as life changing tackles or disgusting overpriced tickets fleecing fans of their hard earned money.
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Post by greyman on Nov 18, 2011 10:30:02 GMT
Being called a white bastard or paki cunt to me is on a par with being called a ginger tosser, thick blonde or midget twat. That's because you don't know what you're talking about. |
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Post by mcf on Nov 18, 2011 10:35:58 GMT
Explain it then grey man.
Abuse is abuse isn't it?
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Post by smokey on Nov 18, 2011 10:43:54 GMT
I feel that being good friends with many ginger and black and white people gives me a good grounding in this subject, red heads in my opinion suffer most from this type of abuse and handle it the best. Its an admirable trait, we could learn alot from them.
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Post by cousindupree on Nov 18, 2011 10:45:03 GMT
Racist remarks are the thin end of the wedge and if allowed to become more commonplace would certainly lead to more serious aspects of racism not only as Forny says violence but also an increase in discrimination in the workplace and in other aspects of society. That somebody would be overlooked for a job because of his or her colour is truly outrageous and unacceptable in a civilised society.
Those people who think racist remarks are trivial and action against their use is over the top need to think again. There is an element in modern society who dont have the intelligence to work out for themselves the consequences of a lenient response to racist remarks and will test the boundaries of what is acceptable and will lead to more serious acts of racism.
That this is such a hot topic in 2011 is rather shameful.
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Post by smokey on Nov 18, 2011 10:45:37 GMT
I'm listening greyman...........
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