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Post by MarkWolstanton on Sept 25, 2011 15:35:11 GMT
Good to see one or three apologist"s lines swept away in a tremendous performance. A game that was end to end at times killed for ever the notion that if we take the game to the big clubs we get thrashed. For the first time we have a real go at Man United and get our first point. The comical excuses that are made for not playing full backs in the full back positions was blown out of the water. Wilkinson in particular showed how a full back who is a full back adds a whole new dimension to our play without reducing our defensive area effectiveness. Wilkinson also stuck the proverbial two fingers up to the few who rubbish his ability in order that they may justify the manager playing square pegs in round holes. It was as good a full back display as you will see anywhere in the Premier League this season. Talking of square pegs we saw again confirmation of the impact Walters has as a central striker compared to the non-entity he is reduced to as a wide player as used the week before at Sunderland. The idea that he should be started out wide to suite a negative away game plan was exposed as nonsense. All but a couple of see no evils had already fathomed that of course. The idea that Woodgate is some sort of failed "experiment' as has been suggested recently was demolished by a further display of his international standard ability. All we need now is to stop fucking ourselves over with our away line ups and approach and we will be a real player in this league! Goodness me, if this continues our favourite band of apologists who have tried to suppress the ideas above are going to have to abandon their stock lines on here!
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Post by spongebob on Sept 25, 2011 15:38:02 GMT
Sorry?
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Post by Deleted on Sept 25, 2011 15:41:26 GMT
Agree with all of that Mark.
On a bit of a tangent, wondered if Huth being rested for the first time in the league in the interests of playing a proper right back was significant?
For the first time in the league he hasn't strained to accommodate Huth, Ryan and one of Woodgate/Upson. We'll likely keep rotating the centre halves, but if we persevere with Wilko/Shotton at rb (as we should), is it the beginning of the end of Huth at Stoke?
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Post by mayf on Sept 25, 2011 15:44:01 GMT
It shouldn't be because Huth is arguably our best centre half
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Post by Mr_DaftBurger on Sept 25, 2011 15:44:19 GMT
With the games we have to play we need Huth, Ryan, Upson and Woodgate and none should be allowed to leave.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 25, 2011 15:45:34 GMT
With the games we have to play we need Huth, Ryan, Upson and Woodgate and none should be allowed to leave. That isn't going to be easy if one of the starts agitating for a move though.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 25, 2011 15:46:05 GMT
Agree with all of that Mark. On a bit of a tangent, wondered if Huth being rested for the first time in the league in the interests of playing a proper right back was significant? For the first time in the league he hasn't strained to accommodate Huth, Ryan and one of Woodgate/Upson. We'll likely keep rotating the centre halves, but if we persevere with Wilko/Shotton at rb (as we should), is it the beginning of the end of Huth at Stoke? I think we will keep Huth unless someone offers us stupid money for him. Woodgate is always going to be one game from getting a longterm injury judging by his record and Upson is also getting on a bit. We have a lot of matches to play and with injuries and suspensions there will be playing time for all 4 of our Centre Halves.
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Post by Mr_DaftBurger on Sept 25, 2011 15:47:48 GMT
With the games we have to play we need Huth, Ryan, Upson and Woodgate and none should be allowed to leave. That isn't going to be easy if one of the starts agitating for a move though. I think all four will get enough games to keep them happy. Even if it is at fullback! If they don't like it they can fuck off up the Vale! ;D
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Post by Deleted on Sept 25, 2011 15:51:33 GMT
Agree with all of that Mark. On a bit of a tangent, wondered if Huth being rested for the first time in the league in the interests of playing a proper right back was significant? For the first time in the league he hasn't strained to accommodate Huth, Ryan and one of Woodgate/Upson. We'll likely keep rotating the centre halves, but if we persevere with Wilko/Shotton at rb (as we should), is it the beginning of the end of Huth at Stoke? I think we will keep Huth unless someone offers us stupid money for him. Woodgate is always going to be one game from getting a longterm injury judging by his record and Upson is also getting on a bit. We have a lot of matches to play and with injuries and suspensions there will be playing time for all 4 of our Centre Halves. I'm sure they will and I'm sure we'll rotate. I just wonder if that'll be enough for Huth or if he might feel that his performances last season should make him something of an untouchable, especially since Ryan hasn't really been rotated so far.
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Post by MarkWolstanton on Sept 25, 2011 15:52:56 GMT
Agree with all of that Mark. On a bit of a tangent, wondered if Huth being rested for the first time in the league in the interests of playing a proper right back was significant? For the first time in the league he hasn't strained to accommodate Huth, Ryan and one of Woodgate/Upson. We'll likely keep rotating the centre halves, but if we persevere with Wilko/Shotton at rb (as we should), is it the beginning of the end of Huth at Stoke? If it did mark the end of the centre half at full back approach, Rob then I guess Huth's long term future depends on him accepting a rotation system in the central defensive positions. I have a feeling he may be moving on in January which would be a shame. It's going to be interesting to see if he plays regularly in the next month or so. It's also going to be fascinating to see the back four make-up in the next away fixture.
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Post by seddonstandviewer on Sept 25, 2011 15:59:28 GMT
Woodgate was awful in the first half.
He was well off the pace against a player who is quick, played a dreadful hand in the Utd goal, as he allowed (along with Wilson) Nani to waltz into the box right through the centre of the defence for a tap in. It was sheer woeful defending.
He was lucky that on another day he didn't concede a penalty and receive a red card.
He played much better in the second half once he sussed out that Owen wasn't going to trouble us at all in behind and the ineffective Berbatov just wasn't interested.
I'm sorry, but he isn't a patch on Upson, who has been superb and does not deserve to be dropped.
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Post by march4 on Sept 25, 2011 15:59:59 GMT
Who are these two full backs? I saw 4 centre backs playing in our defence yesterday or are the 'middle grounders' rewriting history yet again
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Post by Deleted on Sept 25, 2011 16:03:28 GMT
Who are these two full backs? I saw 4 centre backs playing in our defence yesterday or are the 'middle grounders' rewriting history yet again You saw no such thing ;D
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Post by Deleted on Sept 25, 2011 16:04:37 GMT
Woodgate was awful in the first half. He was well off the pace against a player who is quick, played a dreadful hand in the Utd goal, as he allowed (along with Wilson) Nani to waltz into the box right through the centre of the defence for a tap in. It was sheer woeful defending. He was lucky that on another day he didn't concede a penalty and receive a red card. He played much better in the second half once he sussed out that Owen wasn't going to trouble us at all in behind and the ineffective Berbatov just wasn't interested. I'm sorry, but he isn't a patch on Upson, who has been superb and does not deserve to be dropped. Shaky start aside I thought he was absolutely excellent yesterday. Distribution seems a lot more accurate than our other centre halves as well, always seemed to find Crouch and aim for his chest rather than his head allowing him to bring it down.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 25, 2011 16:10:57 GMT
Wilko was quality. I can't recall him having many bad games for us at right back. He deserves to keep the shirt now.
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Post by Paul Spencer on Sept 25, 2011 16:11:31 GMT
I'm not comfortable rotating centre backs at all.
Fergie has been winning the Prem and going deep in Europe for years and in doing so, he's always played his best centre back pairing when they're available.
Most (if not all) successful managers do the same.
The earlier stages of the domestic cup competitions are different matter entirely but if he's got the opportunity to play his best two in the league games and in the European games, then he (of course) does do so.
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Post by MarkWolstanton on Sept 25, 2011 16:12:16 GMT
Who are these two full backs? I saw 4 centre backs playing in our defence yesterday or are the 'middle grounders' rewriting history yet again I've always said you see what you think you want to see, March. What about this Woodgate experiment you have been telling us is over?
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Post by Deleted on Sept 25, 2011 16:13:43 GMT
I think we will keep Huth unless someone offers us stupid money for him. Woodgate is always going to be one game from getting a longterm injury judging by his record and Upson is also getting on a bit. We have a lot of matches to play and with injuries and suspensions there will be playing time for all 4 of our Centre Halves. I'm sure they will and I'm sure we'll rotate. I just wonder if that'll be enough for Huth or if he might feel that his performances last season should make him something of an untouchable, especially since Ryan hasn't really been rotated so far. It's just something our squad is going to have to get used to. Big names sit on the bench or are rested altogether at other clubs and for us to have a decent season TP will have to do it here. Pulis can't let sentiment hold the development of the club back because of what happened in the past and if anyone rocks the boat then they need to go. I think Huth is a good professional though and will understand the situation the club are in. Does anyone know how bad Wilko's injury is? I don't think he is the type of player to go off with a broken finger nail.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 25, 2011 16:14:07 GMT
I'm not comfortable rotating centre backs at all. Fergie has been winning the Prem and going deep in Europe for years and in doing so, he's always played his best centre back pairing when they're available. Most (if not all) successful managers do the same. The earlier stages of the domestic cup competitions are different matter entirely but if he's got the opportunity to play his best two in the league games and in the European games, then he (of course) does do so. I have no idea who our best 2 centre halves are anymore!
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Post by Paul Spencer on Sept 25, 2011 16:16:55 GMT
I'm not comfortable rotating centre backs at all. Fergie has been winning the Prem and going deep in Europe for years and in doing so, he's always played his best centre back pairing when they're available. Most (if not all) successful managers do the same. The earlier stages of the domestic cup competitions are different matter entirely but if he's got the opportunity to play his best two in the league games and in the European games, then he (of course) does do so. I have no idea who our best 2 centre halves are anymore! Ryan and Huth. Over the next five years, who is going to receive the most MOTM awards playing at centre back, Huth or Woodgate? It's certainly going to be Huth ... whether he achieves that with us or playing for somebody else, remains to be seen.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 25, 2011 16:19:07 GMT
I have no idea who our best 2 centre halves are anymore! Ryan and Huth. Over the next five years, who is going to receive the most MOTM awards playing at centre back, Huth or Woodgate? It's certainly going to be Huth ... whether he achieves that with us or playing for somebody else, remains to be seen. Upson has been top notch too though. And if Woodgate can get back to his best you could argue he'd be the best of the 4!!
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Post by march4 on Sept 25, 2011 16:20:11 GMT
Andrew Wilkinson is a centre back - fact
Marc Wilson is a centre back - fact
Two facts, undeniable and irrefutable, unless you occupy the 'middle ground' which seems to be some alternative universe.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 25, 2011 16:21:03 GMT
I'm not comfortable rotating centre backs at all. Fergie has been winning the Prem and going deep in Europe for years and in doing so, he's always played his best centre back pairing when they're available. Most (if not all) successful managers do the same. The earlier stages of the domestic cup competitions are different matter entirely but if he's got the opportunity to play his best two in the league games and in the European games, then he (of course) does do so. I've always thought centre backs needed games to develop a partnership together and so you should ideally have a regular pairing, but it's sort of worked for us so far (to an extent). My real concerns have been the manager's apparent obligation to crowbar Huth into the team out of position, and the fact that it seems crazy to risk alienating Huth for the sake of two thirty something centre backs.
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Post by ParaPsych on Sept 25, 2011 16:23:26 GMT
But surely there is another 10 years left in those under-used legs of Woodgate?
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Post by Lakeland Potter on Sept 25, 2011 16:23:56 GMT
Ryan and Huth. Over the next five years, who is going to receive the most MOTM awards playing at centre back, Huth or Woodgate? It's certainly going to be Huth ... whether he achieves that with us or playing for somebody else, remains to be seen. Upson has been top notch too though. And if Woodgate can get back to his best you could argue he'd be the best of the 4!! I agree. Upson has surprised me. Obviously he is the oldest of the quartet which counts against him but, if anything, he is the best of the bunch when he is on the ball. Pity he doesn't have the pace to play at left back against a speedy winger.
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Post by Paul Spencer on Sept 25, 2011 16:25:54 GMT
Ryan and Huth. Over the next five years, who is going to receive the most MOTM awards playing at centre back, Huth or Woodgate? It's certainly going to be Huth ... whether he achieves that with us or playing for somebody else, remains to be seen. Upson has been top notch too though. And if Woodgate can get back to his best you could argue he'd be the best of the 4!! Is there any reason to think that Huth wouldn't have been top notch though? If Upson and Woodgate were of a similar age to Huth, then I could appreciate where we're going with this but they're not, so I can't.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 25, 2011 16:27:41 GMT
Huth and Upson on Thursday for my money.
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Post by cheekymatt71 on Sept 25, 2011 16:31:14 GMT
Andrew Wilkinson is a centre back - fact Marc Wilson is a centre back - fact Two facts, undeniable and irrefutable, unless you occupy the 'middle ground' which seems to be some alternative universe. The fact Wilkinson may have started out a centre-back does not make it a FACT. Just because you right FACT after your opinion does not make it any more factual. Wilkinson is a right-back and always will be for the rest of his career. Change the tune march
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Post by Deleted on Sept 25, 2011 16:32:45 GMT
I was told yesterday that Pulis thinks Shawcross is a better player when paired with Woodgate instead of Huth and there has been an improvement in Ryan's game imo but i suppose only time will tell on that one.We are in a great position having 4 top quality centre halfs and if all 4 accept that some weeks they'll be benched then in my opinion it can only be good for us.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 25, 2011 16:38:18 GMT
Andrew Wilkinson is a centre back - fact Marc Wilson is a centre back - fact Two facts, undeniable and irrefutable, unless you occupy the 'middle ground' which seems to be some alternative universe. But they don't play as centre backs at full back in the way that Huth does do they? Do you think that was a classic "centre back at full back"'s performance by Wilko yesterday?
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