|
|
Post by Davef on Sept 26, 2011 11:49:37 GMT
I agree with much of that WM. And to start the important games my choice of centre backs would also be two from Upson, Huth and Shawcross. I'm not saying Woodgate won't get back to his best, I'm just saying he isn't there yet. Surely the only way for Woodgate to get back to his best though is for him to play games? Woody, more than most players, needs a good run of games to really get back his match sharpness and I'm pretty confident that that's the way TP sees it as well. |
|
|
|
Post by ParaPsych on Sept 26, 2011 11:50:20 GMT
The Esso is gone.  Or at least changed company. Despise is a bit much, isn't it? As for you - I think you are very witty. Please keep it up. I don't know if you mean that in a nice way or not. |
|
|
|
Post by Davef on Sept 26, 2011 11:52:56 GMT
As for you - I think you are very witty. Please keep it up. I don't know if you mean that in a nice way or not. He didn't put a smiley so he probably does. |
|
|
|
Post by wandonlodge2 on Sept 26, 2011 11:54:01 GMT
As for you - I think you are very witty. Please keep it up. I don't know if you mean that in a nice way or not. I see what you mean, sorry. It was a genuine compliment though. |
|
|
|
Post by despotter on Sept 26, 2011 11:55:38 GMT
I don't know if you mean that in a nice way or not. I see what you mean, sorry. It was a genuine compliment though. Get a room. |
|
|
|
Post by ParaPsych on Sept 26, 2011 12:03:20 GMT
This thread is going downhill fast  |
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Sept 26, 2011 12:04:28 GMT
I had Chicken SuperNoodles for dinner.
|
|
|
|
Post by Lakeland Potter on Sept 26, 2011 12:04:42 GMT
I agree with much of that WM. And to start the important games my choice of centre backs would also be two from Upson, Huth and Shawcross. I'm not saying Woodgate won't get back to his best, I'm just saying he isn't there yet. Surely the only way for Woodgate to get back to his best though is for him to play games? Woody, more than most players, needs a good run of games to really get back his match sharpness and I'm pretty confident that that's the way TP sees it as well. Dave, as things stand at the moment it is a pity Woody isn't in the Europa squad because AT PRESENT (and I stress AT PRESENT) Upson to me looks in better form. I guess I'd be giving Woody starts in the less high profile Prem games but for a big Prem game such as Arsenal away, my preference would be for 2 from Upson, Ryan and Huth to start. |
|
|
|
Post by ColonelMustard on Sept 26, 2011 12:05:45 GMT
Our problem is we're planning for every eventuality but not all eventualities are happening.
|
|
|
|
Post by vestanpance on Sept 26, 2011 12:08:56 GMT
Firstly, this thread is clearly NOT an example of why this place has gone to ratshit since we got promoted. No siree.
I thought we were brilliant on Saturday, genuinely. All the doubts that creep in were eradicated, even Delap (who i have massive doubts about) had a great game and disproved all the moaning i'd done about replacing him with Palacios as soon as possible. It was Delap's best game since i cannot remember when and fair play to him. Wilkinson's inclusion at Right-back made a mockery of previous attempts to force Huth into the reckoning, which in truth did neither Stoke nor Huth any good. I appreciate i am in a minority, but i still think Shotton is our long term option there, but this is what having a squad of players is all about isn't it? When you get the shirt, you have to do well to keep it.
As for Pulis finally "seeing the light", i think we should reserve judgement for a couple of weeks. If we play with the same kind of freedom and ambition at Swansea, a team that i genuinely believe we have the quality to overwhelm, the we can thinking about a realisation of what we can achieve with a little more forward ambition. Pulis is by definition a defensive manager however, so don't be amazed if Huth is reinstated next week. It's who he is, and it's why there is frequently the kind of fractured debate about his qualities, both Good and Bad.
And isn't that what football is all about? debate? Ever since we have been promoted there have been an increasing number of posters who smash any kind of reasoned argument on here owing to their slavish dedication to a manager who is, in almost equal measure, infuriating and magnificent. The fact is he is different to any manager anywhere else in the country...when we win he's brilliant, when we lose he's hopeless. Twas ever thus on here, that is until any questioning of his tactics on here was met with a "what the fuck do you know/fuck off down the Vale/we're 7th/9th/13th FFS". Well done to you anyway. You're killing the place.
And Wandonlodge2. I'm going to presume that you used the wrong word. Because if you do "despise" a man/men because they have a contrary opinion to you...men i hasten to add you have never even met...then you probably need to get out a bit more. It's almost as bad as offering to have a fight with someone because they disag...oh, you've done that already.
As for the Centre Half debate...they get picked when Pulis picks them. If they don't like it it's a bit of tough shit they are having isn't it? Chances are we'll play, what, 55 games this season? I think everyone will get their fair share. And i prefer Upson or Woodgate to play alongside Huth/Shawcross. Their composure on the ball is yet another plus point to what has been a great start to a season.
|
|
|
|
Post by Davef on Sept 26, 2011 12:11:58 GMT
Pulis is by definition a defensive manager however, so don't be amazed if Huth is reinstated next week. True. Did anyone notice Glenn Whelan covering Ryan's position when he went up for the toss?  (Better put the smiley in there before Wandonlodge gets on my case). |
|
|
|
Post by wandonlodge2 on Sept 26, 2011 12:20:57 GMT
Firstly, this thread is clearly NOT an example of why this place has gone to ratshit since we got promoted. No siree. I thought we were brilliant on Saturday, genuinely. All the doubts that creep in were eradicated, even Delap (who i have massive doubts about) had a great game and disproved all the moaning i'd done about replacing him with Palacios as soon as possible. It was Delap's best game since i cannot remember when and fair play to him. Wilkinson's inclusion at Right-back made a mockery of previous attempts to force Huth into the reckoning, which in truth did neither Stoke nor Huth any good. I appreciate i am in a minority, but i still think Shotton is our long term option there, but this is what having a squad of players is all about isn't it? When you get the shirt, you have to do well to keep it. As for Pulis finally "seeing the light", i think we should reserve judgement for a couple of weeks. If we play with the same kind of freedom and ambition at Swansea, a team that i genuinely believe we have the quality to overwhelm, the we can thinking about a realisation of what we can achieve with a little more forward ambition. Pulis is by definition a defensive manager however, so don't be amazed if Huth is reinstated next week. It's who he is, and it's why there is frequently the kind of fractured debate about his qualities, both Good and Bad. And isn't that what football is all about? debate? Ever since we have been promoted there have been an increasing number of posters who smash any kind of reasoned argument on here owing to their slavish dedication to a manager who is, in almost equal measure, infuriating and magnificent. The fact is he is different to any manager anywhere else in the country...when we win he's brilliant, when we lose he's hopeless. Twas ever thus on here, that is until any questioning of his tactics on here was met with a "what the fuck do you know/fuck off down the Vale/we're 7th/9th/13th FFS". Well done to you anyway. You're killing the place. And Wandonlodge2. I'm going to presume that you used the wrong word. Because if you do "despise" a man/men because they have a contrary opinion to you...men i hasten to add you have never even met...then you probably need to get out a bit more. It's almost as bad as offering to have a fight with someone because they disag...oh, you've done that already. As for the Centre Half debate...they get picked when Pulis picks them. If they don't like it it's a bit of tough shit they are having isn't it? Chances are we'll play, what, 55 games this season? I think everyone will get their fair share. And i prefer Upson or Woodgate to play alongside Huth/Shawcross. Their composure on the ball is yet another plus point to what has been a great start to a season. I made it very clear (more than once) that I was ONLY commenting on their messageboard personas. I think I observed that Mark may be the 'nicest man in Christendom' in real life. Also, it was RAF who suggested we meet face-to-face to discuss things further. I don't think I was being totally ridiculous in construing that as a threat. |
|
|
|
Post by wandonlodge2 on Sept 26, 2011 12:28:54 GMT
On Woodgate, I think he is immense. His tackles on Torres (v Chelsea) and Hernandez were different class. If you watch a replay of his tackle on Saturday you will see that not one Man Utd player makes any great appeal for a penalty + the linesman had a fantastic view of the incident.
|
|
|
|
Post by TheWiseMaster on Sept 26, 2011 12:30:05 GMT
Paul, you say that TP played upon the lack of pace if their strike force but he didn't know beforehand that Hernandez was going to get injured did he? Yes, no Rooney helped but I'm not sure if you can put our success down to one single factor. It's about time we got a point from a home game with United as we've come close twice before but other 'lesser' clubs have managed to do it and have even beaten them. We need to manage our expectations of course, but let's raise them a little too. Mike Three points really - Crouch should have been first - we now have better options and he is using them. Second - no Rooney and third Hernandez went out early which would have encouraged TP's new found sense of adventure. TP admitted that their wekened strikeforce was a major factor - it took away much of the fear I have to say that I was surprised at how well Crouch played - way above the level of his earlier outings. I feared the worst when Jones was injured |
|
|
|
Post by vestanpance on Sept 26, 2011 12:30:21 GMT
It is a long-standing joke on here mate. Well it used to be. I believe humour of any description waved goodbye sometime around our second season in the Premier League.
|
|
|
|
Post by jimmygscfc on Sept 26, 2011 12:32:09 GMT
RAF's a very touchy, feely person and likes to make contact with others of a similar ilk. You must have had a bit of a ding-dong for him to offer you out as he's only 5 ft nothing and a reet scrawny git.
|
|
|
|
Post by vestanpance on Sept 26, 2011 12:33:33 GMT
RAF's a very touchy, feely person and likes to make contact with others of a similar ilk. You must have had a bit of a ding-dong for him to offer you out as he's only 5 ft nothing and a reet scrawny git. And he bums dogs. He bummed my dog once, and i was only gone for 10 minutes. Dirty bloody dog bummer. |
|
|
|
Post by lordb on Sept 26, 2011 12:35:10 GMT
is the room for an argument?
anyroad is it only me who is happy with almost any combination of our 8 defenders (inc Higgy)?
- I wouldnt want to see Wilson at CB or Ryan/Woody @ fullback but apart from that we have tons of possible line ups at the back all of them good or very very good.
|
|
|
|
Post by Cyprusdelilah on Sept 26, 2011 12:36:02 GMT
Andrew Wilkinson is a centre back - fact Marc Wilson is a centre back - fact Two facts, undeniable and irrefutable, unless you occupy the 'middle ground' which seems to be some alternative universe. Marc Wilson is a Def. Midfielder, when he was playing at Portsmouth he was made to play at CB, cause they had know one else and he played there for a number of months. Cause when they they played us at Stoke, they mentioned, he was a makeshift CB I think. |
|
|
|
Post by vestanpance on Sept 26, 2011 12:38:21 GMT
is the room for an argument? anyroad is it only me who is happy with almost any combination of our 8 defenders (inc Higgy)? - I wouldnt want to see Wilson at CB or Ryan/Woody @ fullback but apart from that we have tons of possible line ups at the back all of them good or very very good. Apart from Huth at RB i agree. I think he looks uncomfortable (little wonder) and has a propensity to drift inside (again, little wonder) But the 8 we have are doing a tremendous job and i have no problem with any of the mixture. |
|
|
|
Post by lordb on Sept 26, 2011 12:55:03 GMT
don't get me wrong Huth is miles better at CB however I do feel he's hardly a weak link at fullback
|
|
|
|
Post by wandonlodge2 on Sept 26, 2011 12:57:05 GMT
It is a long-standing joke on here mate. Well it used to be. I believe humour of any description waved goodbye sometime around our second season in the Premier League. I missed that in my angry haze. |
|
jnb14
Youth Player
Posts: 269
|
Post by jnb14 on Sept 26, 2011 14:53:27 GMT
It's all dancing on the head of pins though isn't it folks? The line between success and failure is so thin.
At the time I didn't think it was a pen when hernandez went down. When I saw it on MOD it was stonewall. One nil down, down to ten men - it really wouldn't have mattered who played full back. And we wouldn't be arguing about Pulis's intentions for the first 5 minutes of the match.
|
|
|
|
Post by tazi on Sept 26, 2011 15:09:25 GMT
Good to see one or three apologist"s lines swept away in a tremendous performance. A game that was end to end at times killed for ever the notion that if we take the game to the big clubs we get thrashed. For the first time we have a real go at Man United and get our first point. The comical excuses that are made for not playing full backs in the full back positions was blown out of the water. Wilkinson in particular showed how a full back who is a full back adds a whole new dimension to our play without reducing our defensive area effectiveness. Wilkinson also stuck the proverbial two fingers up to the few who rubbish his ability in order that they may justify the manager playing square pegs in round holes. It was as good a full back display as you will see anywhere in the Premier League this season. Talking of square pegs we saw again confirmation of the impact Walters has as a central striker compared to the non-entity he is reduced to as a wide player as used the week before at Sunderland. The idea that he should be started out wide to suite a negative away game plan was exposed as nonsense. All but a couple of see no evils had already fathomed that of course. The idea that Woodgate is some sort of failed "experiment' as has been suggested recently was demolished by a further display of his international standard ability. All we need now is to stop fucking ourselves over with our away line ups and approach and we will be a real player in this league! Goodness me, if this continues our favourite band of apologists who have tried to suppress the ideas above are going to have to abandon their stock lines on here! Hopefully, Mark, our manager will draw the same conclusions. He should be patting himself on the back for having found the perfect formula, and gained as much confidence from that display as we supporters have. IMO, it was his finest day as a manager. M. These conclusions that were showed against Man Utd resulted from Pulis laying the foundations ever since we bacame a premiership club in the sense that he's built us up gradually as an attractive outfit resulting in better quality players..... I think Markwalstanton wanted to see it from the outset though. He's acting surprised it's happened and comes across as though Pulis has just kind of accidently stumbled across it. |
|
|
|
Post by werrington on Sept 26, 2011 16:36:29 GMT
Hopefully, Mark, our manager will draw the same conclusions. He should be patting himself on the back for having found the perfect formula, and gained as much confidence from that display as we supporters have. IMO, it was his finest day as a manager. M. These conclusions that were showed against Man Utd resulted from Pulis laying the foundations ever since we bacame a premiership club in the sense that he's built us up gradually as an attractive outfit resulting in better quality players..... I think Markwalstanton wanted to see it from the outset though. He's acting surprised it's happened and comes across as though Pulis has just kind of accidently stumbled across it. Sorry mate but thats not entirely true is it?.......we all know we have the players to do it and for certain games TP has refused to unleash the shackles....even when we lost 4-0 and 5-0 at Old Trafford and 7-0 at Chelsea we still had folk on here defending the tactics of stubborn defence and i;m pretty sure if we had "had a go" then we would not have lost by those scorelines?.....Saturday and Chelsea at home last season has exploded that myth |
|
|
|
Post by ColonelMustard on Sept 26, 2011 16:39:37 GMT
These conclusions that were showed against Man Utd resulted from Pulis laying the foundations ever since we bacame a premiership club in the sense that he's built us up gradually as an attractive outfit resulting in better quality players..... I think Markwalstanton wanted to see it from the outset though. He's acting surprised it's happened and comes across as though Pulis has just kind of accidently stumbled across it. Sorry mate but thats not entirely true is it?.......we all know we have the players to do it and for certain games TP has refused to unleash the shackles....even when we lost 4-0 and 5-0 at Old Trafford and 7-0 at Chelsea we still had folk on here defending the tactics of stubborn defence and i;m pretty sure if we had "had a go" then we would not have lost by those scorelines?.....Saturday and Chelsea at home last season has exploded that myth It could also be argued that we only now have a big enough squad to unleash the shackles every game and keep performing at a high level. It is not just about the game in question but the game before and the game after and in fact having a plan for the whole season. |
|
|
|
Post by werrington on Sept 26, 2011 16:46:06 GMT
Sorry mate but thats not entirely true is it?.......we all know we have the players to do it and for certain games TP has refused to unleash the shackles....even when we lost 4-0 and 5-0 at Old Trafford and 7-0 at Chelsea we still had folk on here defending the tactics of stubborn defence and i;m pretty sure if we had "had a go" then we would not have lost by those scorelines?.....Saturday and Chelsea at home last season has exploded that myth It could also be argued that we only now have a big enough squad to unleash the shackles every game and keep performing at a high level. It is not just about the game in question but the game before and the game after and in fact having a plan for the whole season. Fair points CM but can you honestly see him releasing the shackles at those same stadiums?......as Pennant has said attack is the best form of defence and as somebody who attends 90% of away fixtures its bloody hard work sometimes and thats not a dig at TP its just a fact |
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Sept 26, 2011 16:49:27 GMT
It could also be argued that we only now have a big enough squad to unleash the shackles every game and keep performing at a high level. It is not just about the game in question but the game before and the game after and in fact having a plan for the whole season. Fair points CM but can you honestly see him releasing the shackles at those same stadiums?......as Pennant has said attack is the best form of defence and as somebody who attends 90% of away fixtures its bloody hard work sometimes and thats not a dig at TP its just a fact I don't really buy that "attack is the best form of defence" but we certainly don't need to be frightened of anybody now. |
|
|
|
Post by werrington on Sept 26, 2011 16:51:37 GMT
Fair points CM but can you honestly see him releasing the shackles at those same stadiums?......as Pennant has said attack is the best form of defence and as somebody who attends 90% of away fixtures its bloody hard work sometimes and thats not a dig at TP its just a fact I don't really buy that "attack is the best form of defence" but we certainly don't need to be frightened of anybody now. There is a happy medium to be found Rob but sometimes away from home we are beaten before a ball has been kicked? |
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Sept 26, 2011 17:02:08 GMT
I don't really buy that "attack is the best form of defence" but we certainly don't need to be frightened of anybody now. There is a happy medium to be found Rob but sometimes away from home we are beaten before a ball has been kicked? Exactly, there's a happy medium. I don't see why, for example, we have to go to Anfield and play one up front and park the bus. |
|
Or at least changed company.
(Better put the smiley in there before Wandonlodge gets on my case).
