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Post by 321 on Sept 25, 2011 21:07:11 GMT
Good to see one or three apologist"s lines swept away in a tremendous performance. A game that was end to end at times killed for ever the notion that if we take the game to the big clubs we get thrashed. For the first time we have a real go at Man United and get our first point. The comical excuses that are made for not playing full backs in the full back positions was blown out of the water. Wilkinson in particular showed how a full back who is a full back adds a whole new dimension to our play without reducing our defensive area effectiveness. Wilkinson also stuck the proverbial two fingers up to the few who rubbish his ability in order that they may justify the manager playing square pegs in round holes. It was as good a full back display as you will see anywhere in the Premier League this season. Talking of square pegs we saw again confirmation of the impact Walters has as a central striker compared to the non-entity he is reduced to as a wide player as used the week before at Sunderland. The idea that he should be started out wide to suite a negative away game plan was exposed as nonsense. All but a couple of see no evils had already fathomed that of course. The idea that Woodgate is some sort of failed "experiment' as has been suggested recently was demolished by a further display of his international standard ability. All we need now is to stop fucking ourselves over with our away line ups and approach and we will be a real player in this league! Goodness me, if this continues our favourite band of apologists who have tried to suppress the ideas above are going to have to abandon their stock lines on here! Quite a conceited post, from a conceited poster.
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Post by Orbs on Sept 25, 2011 21:10:55 GMT
The give away is the fact that I start a thread listing the very things that thrilled me about yesterday. How can that not give the impression that I'm thrilled about it? I'm extra happy that the myths about us not being able to take on teams that way have been knocked into a cocked hat. I want to see more of the same. I'm not going to apologise for saying so. If you don't see any relevance in cross referencing the good with the not so good, fair enough but it's a mistake to assume that's slating anyone. It passes as normal analysis and discussion to me. I've got plenty of chips on my shoulders about plenty of shite I've been treated to over the last few decades of watching the club like many but I live for days like yesterday. It's what makes it worthwhile. Pulis makes mistakes and will continue to do so. There's no harm in saying that. Personally I think he was wrong to ever drop Wilko. It was probably a misguided effort to shoehorn as many of his superstar centre-backs into the team at once. But I think it's still possible to criticise some of Pulis' decisions in a sensible context without resorting to misleading claims like we've been having to put up with "standard away garbage". It did come across as though you were clutching at straws and desperately looking for something to be angry about. Apologies if you didn't mean that comment to come across the way I read it, but it did seem you were making out Pulis may have done well this week, but let's not forget how crap he was last week. That's exactly what he's saying mate - but without the bit about him doing well this week.
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Post by onionman on Sept 25, 2011 21:14:39 GMT
Pulis makes mistakes and will continue to do so. There's no harm in saying that. Personally I think he was wrong to ever drop Wilko. It was probably a misguided effort to shoehorn as many of his superstar centre-backs into the team at once. But I think it's still possible to criticise some of Pulis' decisions in a sensible context without resorting to misleading claims like we've been having to put up with "standard away garbage". It did come across as though you were clutching at straws and desperately looking for something to be angry about. Apologies if you didn't mean that comment to come across the way I read it, but it did seem you were making out Pulis may have done well this week, but let's not forget how crap he was last week. That's exactly what he's saying mate - but without the bit about him doing well this week. I stand corrected - I should have read the thread.
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Post by MarkWolstanton on Sept 25, 2011 21:16:14 GMT
The results in those 12 games were good but the performances flagged up plenty of flaws that came home to roost last weekend. Yesterday it looked as if the manager had recognised that and ironed it out. I don't always agree with Mark's stance on TP but I thought he was positive and very fair in his original post. It was the complaint that it's only one week since we had to suffer "standard away garbage" that got me. I know many of away performances have been horrible to watch over the years, particularly since we've been in the Prem, but to call the Sunderland game "standard away garbage" was completely misleading when you look at our 12 games as a whole this season and the circumstances of the lead-up to that game. Nothing about Stoke City this season (or indeed the past six months), including our away form, could be described as standard garbage by anyone who isn't desperately trying to find a stick to hit the manager with. I can only refer you to our Premier League away record and the type of performance we tend to put in to demonstrate where I am coming from. In my book it is an area that requires urgent attention on the basis that any slip in our tremendous home form could spell trouble. I'd honestly suggest it's a concern shared by many. If you want to interpret that as sticking it to the manager then so be it. I'm really keen to see some of the progressive attitude shown against the best team in the country taken into our away performances on the basis that we are good enough not to be as timid and negative as we have been. I believe we are capable of better away, don't you? I cross referenced the last two league performances to illustrate this. If you want to insist that is a prejudice against the manager fair enough. I just want to see the team do even better . I believe they can and proved it by blowing away the myths some have built up.
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Post by ParaPsych on Sept 25, 2011 21:22:17 GMT
2 seasons ago we got 20 points away from home. The 9th best record in the league. And I thought we were probably more negative away that season than last season's poor showing. We ground out a load of draws and nicked a few wins. Huth was even at right back for most of it. So in true march4 style, I say fuck attacking away from home. Park the bus. Having Fuller helped too, mind...
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Post by swampySCFC on Sept 25, 2011 21:23:22 GMT
I think theres one or two simplists on this board who think that, for example, we did well against Manure because we played with Wilko at RB. They've been telling us for years Wilko is better in that position than anyone else and finally because Pulis has seen the light. When we started off on this journey in the depths of the Championship and relegation certainties 2 years on the trot in that league, Pulis had a plan to get from A to B. I defy any Stokie to say that position "B" would be any further along than our status today and its not about Wilko or Huth at RB or whether Crouch is value for money or Walters is no better that Championship standard. Its about management and its about TP. some dunna like to admit it
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Post by Paul Spencer on Sept 25, 2011 21:30:10 GMT
I think theres one or two simplists on this board who think that, for example, we did well against Manure because we played with Wilko at RB. They've been telling us for years Wilko is better in that position than anyone else and finally because Pulis has seen the light. When we started off on this journey in the depths of the Championship and relegation certainties 2 years on the trot in that league, Pulis had a plan to get from A to B. I defy any Stokie to say that position "B" would be any further along than our status today and its not about Wilko or Huth at RB or whether Crouch is value for money or Walters is no better that Championship standard. Its about management and its about TP. some dunna like to admit it We were having this exact same discussion 12 months ago ... as a team we weren't really firing at all, then TP moved Huth to centre back, put Wilko in at right back, we looked like a different team and took Liverpool apart. It's not like we haven't been here before. If you want to argue that Pennant is just as effective with Huth behind him as he is Wilko, then please fire away, I'd love to hear it ...
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Post by MarkWolstanton on Sept 25, 2011 21:35:44 GMT
Good to see one or three apologist"s lines swept away in a tremendous performance. A game that was end to end at times killed for ever the notion that if we take the game to the big clubs we get thrashed. For the first time we have a real go at Man United and get our first point. The comical excuses that are made for not playing full backs in the full back positions was blown out of the water. Wilkinson in particular showed how a full back who is a full back adds a whole new dimension to our play without reducing our defensive area effectiveness. Wilkinson also stuck the proverbial two fingers up to the few who rubbish his ability in order that they may justify the manager playing square pegs in round holes. It was as good a full back display as you will see anywhere in the Premier League this season. Talking of square pegs we saw again confirmation of the impact Walters has as a central striker compared to the non-entity he is reduced to as a wide player as used the week before at Sunderland. The idea that he should be started out wide to suite a negative away game plan was exposed as nonsense. All but a couple of see no evils had already fathomed that of course. The idea that Woodgate is some sort of failed "experiment' as has been suggested recently was demolished by a further display of his international standard ability. All we need now is to stop fucking ourselves over with our away line ups and approach and we will be a real player in this league! Goodness me, if this continues our favourite band of apologists who have tried to suppress the ideas above are going to have to abandon their stock lines on here! Quite a conceited post, from a conceited poster. Well thank you. There has ben no holding you since you learnt to count backwards from three has there?
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Post by onionman on Sept 25, 2011 21:36:12 GMT
I agree our away form needs to be much better than it was in our first three seasons in this league. However, I don't think there's any chance we'll get relegated this season with Pulis in charge.
The irony is I agree with most of what you're saying about our need to play positively at all times. I just feel it's possible to make those points without implying the manager is an idiot. By giving him zero credit for getting things right (suggesting we've only done well because he's finally got on the same page as you) and coming down on him like a ton of bricks when he gets things wrong, you do imply you think he's an idiot, whether intentionally or not.
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Post by MarkWolstanton on Sept 25, 2011 21:45:48 GMT
I agree our away form needs to be much better than it was in our first three seasons in this league. However, I don't think there's any chance we'll get relegated this season with Pulis in charge. The irony is I agree with most of what you're saying about our need to play positively at all times. I just feel it's possible to make those points without implying the manager is an idiot. By giving him zero credit for getting things right (suggesting we've only done well because he's finally got on the same page as you) and coming down on him like a ton of bricks when he gets things wrong, you do imply you think he's an idiot, whether intentionally or not. The nature of message boards is always to accentuate the extremes. Not only that but its easy to read things that arent there. Only a fool would rubbish everything what the manager has achieved with the football club but surely the conversations regarding the many areas we are quite capable of getting better are fair enough? Its not like they arent the same discussions that go on in the local every Saturday night. Id like to think TP wouldnt be so precious about criticism and observation about these things as some posters are. Surely the point of having this message board is to discuss the good with the bad? edit: mind you I dont have any problem with neing misrepresented. i'm lucky enough to have Orbital translating on my behalf. ;D
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Post by wandonlodge2 on Sept 25, 2011 21:56:22 GMT
If only you were our manager we could have been here years ago. But don't be so modest in future, there are probably some people who didn't realise it was down to you. (Not one mention of the current manager I notice? How strange, when things are gonig badly you mention him ever such a lot). What's up, someone pissed on your fire? I bet you hated yesterday didn't you? All that passing, moving, creating chances, going toe to toe with the champIons and not looking second best. Plucky Stoke should know their role. No. I loved it. In fact, I probably enjoyed it all the more because it was the fruition of all the hard work of the last three years. I've enjoyed the whole PL experience, not just the 'glory' days like yesterday. We have had to scrap and fight while we built a squad and established ourselves and yesterday was another landmark on our fantastic journey. Yesterday was FAR more fun for those of us who haven't whined and sniped our way through the last few years. Those of us who had faith all along in the manager and players are very happy now thank you.
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Post by Trouserdog on Sept 25, 2011 21:57:52 GMT
We've now reached the point on this message board where every single thread attempting a discussion on where we can improve, or even the mildest criticism of any aspect of the club, is pounced on by a group of people who seem intent on stifling any kind of conversation about Stoke City.
Perhaps admin should reply to every opening post with "we're 7th FFS" and then lock the thread. It seems to be what some people would like to see.
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Post by wandonlodge2 on Sept 25, 2011 21:59:09 GMT
I read the thread. It read like you were so begrudging of Pulis you were trying to give him as little credit as possible for our brilliant start to the season. But you were happy to slate him by harking back to the only match out of 12 that hasn't gone very well this season. The whole tone across the message board is indeed extremely complimentary. To not be extremely complimentary about this start to the season, you'd need a real chip on your shoulder about something. Thats exactly how i read as well mate so we can't all be wrong can we? And + a few.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 25, 2011 22:02:17 GMT
I think theres one or two simplists on this board who think that, for example, we did well against Manure because we played with Wilko at RB. They've been telling us for years Wilko is better in that position than anyone else and finally because Pulis has seen the light. When we started off on this journey in the depths of the Championship and relegation certainties 2 years on the trot in that league, Pulis had a plan to get from A to B. I defy any Stokie to say that position "B" would be any further along than our status today and its not about Wilko or Huth at RB or whether Crouch is value for money or Walters is no better that Championship standard. Its about management and its about TP. some dunna like to admit it That we set up with a proper right back at right back yesterday WAS absolutely pivotal to our performance against Man Utd. I'd like to hear the argument that it wasn't.
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Post by onionman on Sept 25, 2011 22:02:41 GMT
I agree our away form needs to be much better than it was in our first three seasons in this league. However, I don't think there's any chance we'll get relegated this season with Pulis in charge. The irony is I agree with most of what you're saying about our need to play positively at all times. I just feel it's possible to make those points without implying the manager is an idiot. By giving him zero credit for getting things right (suggesting we've only done well because he's finally got on the same page as you) and coming down on him like a ton of bricks when he gets things wrong, you do imply you think he's an idiot, whether intentionally or not. The nature of message boards is always to accentuate the extremes. Not only that but its easy to read things that arent there. Only a fool would rubbish everything what the manager has achieved with the football club but surely the conversations regarding the many areas we are quite capable of getting better are fair enough? Its not like they arent the same discussions that go on in the local every Saturday night. Id like to think TP wouldnt be so precious about criticism and observation about these things as some posters are. Surely the point of having this message board is to discuss the good with the bad? Judging by the other posts on this thread, I'm not the only person who's perceived your comments as part of a personal crusade against the manager. Like I said, there's nothing wrong with pointing to the manager's failings. But I imagine after yesterday's game the conversations in most Stokie-filled pubs were about how well we'd done against Man Utd, how far we've come in the past few seasons and what a great job Pulis is continuing to do. Apart from one particular pub, where MarkWolstanton, Waiting For Waddo and Spiderman probably sat round a table bemoaning how badly we played at Sunderland and how our away form will get us relegated if Pulis doesn't buck his ideas up. I dare say you're right that Pulis doesn't really care what we write on here though.
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Post by wandonlodge2 on Sept 25, 2011 22:09:05 GMT
I agree our away form needs to be much better than it was in our first three seasons in this league. However, I don't think there's any chance we'll get relegated this season with Pulis in charge. The irony is I agree with most of what you're saying about our need to play positively at all times. I just feel it's possible to make those points without implying the manager is an idiot. By giving him zero credit for getting things right (suggesting we've only done well because he's finally got on the same page as you) and coming down on him like a ton of bricks when he gets things wrong, you do imply you think he's an idiot, whether intentionally or not. The nature of message boards is always to accentuate the extremes. Not only that but its easy to read things that arent there. Only a fool would rubbish everything what the manager has achieved with the football club but surely the conversations regarding the many areas we are quite capable of getting better are fair enough? Its not like they arent the same discussions that go on in the local every Saturday night. Id like to think TP wouldnt be so precious about criticism and observation about these things as some posters are. Surely the point of having this message board is to discuss the good with the bad? edit: mind you I dont have any problem with neing misrepresented. i'm lucky enough to have Orbital translating on my behalf. ;D Don't try and paint yourself in a different light. Quite a few posts on this thread show that you've been rumbled. You don't 'criticise and make observations' you denigrate and you undermine. Your comments are snide and self-aggrandising. You have spent the last few years belittling everything the manager does. Because the manager/chairman/players have worked our way up to the stage where we can give the champions a good game don't try and claim the credit. They got us here - not you.
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Post by bunnyscfc on Sept 25, 2011 22:09:44 GMT
/quote]
That we set up with a proper right back at right back yesterday WAS absolutely pivotal to our performance against Man Utd.
I'd like to hear the argument that it wasn't.[/quote]
100mph correct
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Post by MarkWolstanton on Sept 25, 2011 22:10:12 GMT
What's up, someone pissed on your fire? I bet you hated yesterday didn't you? All that passing, moving, creating chances, going toe to toe with the champIons and not looking second best. Plucky Stoke should know their role. No. I loved it. In fact, I probably enjoyed it all the more because it was the fruition of all the hard work of the last three years. I've enjoyed the whole PL experience, not just the 'glory' days like yesterday. We have had to scrap and fight while we built a squad and established ourselves and yesterday was another landmark on our fantastic journey. Yesterday was FAR more fun for those of us who haven't whined and sniped our way through the last few years. Those of us who had faith all along in the manager and players are very happy now thank you. Then please explain why you have contributed nothing other than to attempt to supress any conversation on this message board posted by people who want to discuss not only the good things but areas in which things can and should be better? Not only have you and a small minority attempted to suppress such discussions and basically thread wrecked but you have denied they were problems at all! How come now we have seen what can be that you recognise it as a way forward all of a sudden after reams of denial. I would guarentee if we had sat back and got dicked yesterday, you would have been defending the tactics to the hilt and again repeating the shittiest line of the lot that no one is qualified to complain unless they are the manager of the club!
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Post by wandonlodge2 on Sept 25, 2011 22:13:58 GMT
The nature of message boards is always to accentuate the extremes. Not only that but its easy to read things that arent there. Only a fool would rubbish everything what the manager has achieved with the football club but surely the conversations regarding the many areas we are quite capable of getting better are fair enough? Its not like they arent the same discussions that go on in the local every Saturday night. Id like to think TP wouldnt be so precious about criticism and observation about these things as some posters are. Surely the point of having this message board is to discuss the good with the bad? Judging by the other posts on this thread, I'm not the only person who's perceived your comments as part of a personal crusade against the manager. Like I said, there's nothing wrong with pointing to the manager's failings. But I imagine after yesterday's game the conversations in most Stokie-filled pubs were about how well we'd done against Man Utd, how far we've come in the past few seasons and what a great job Pulis is continuing to do. Apart from one particular pub, where MarkWolstanton, Waiting For Waddo and Spiderman probably sat round a table bemoaning how badly we played at Sunderland and how our away form will get us relegated if Pulis doesn't buck his ideas up. I dare say you're right that Pulis doesn't really care what we write on here though. I like the cut of your jib.
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Post by bunnyscfc on Sept 25, 2011 22:14:12 GMT
the problem is, that some folk cannot see that you can actually (constructively) question TP and still love what he's done/doing for us.
As someone who loves TP but is open to saying it as he sees it, I see the Rimmers as far more one-eyed than the so-called PHW's.
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Post by wandonlodge2 on Sept 25, 2011 22:22:50 GMT
No. I loved it. In fact, I probably enjoyed it all the more because it was the fruition of all the hard work of the last three years. I've enjoyed the whole PL experience, not just the 'glory' days like yesterday. We have had to scrap and fight while we built a squad and established ourselves and yesterday was another landmark on our fantastic journey. Yesterday was FAR more fun for those of us who haven't whined and sniped our way through the last few years. Those of us who had faith all along in the manager and players are very happy now thank you. Then please explain why you have contributed nothing other than to attempt to supress any conversation on this message board posted by people who want to discuss not only the good things but areas in which things can and should be better? Not only have you and a small minority attempted to suppress such discussions and basically thread wrecked but you have denied they were problems at all! How come now we have seen what can be that you recognise it as a way forward all of a sudden after reams of denial. I would guarentee if we had sat back and got dicked yesterday, you would have been defending the tactics to the hilt and again repeating the shittiest line of the lot that no one is qualified to complain unless they are the manager of the club! You are floundering. Find a post where I've talked tactics. I don't know enough about them to inflict my feeble ideas on others. All I've done is take the rough with the smooth without whining like a little girl everytime we lose/play badly. All I've done is give the manager/players the benefit of the doubt when things aren't going in our favour. You can snipe about the manager all you like, but I'll tell you what - it's all working out beautifully for me.
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Post by onionman on Sept 25, 2011 22:25:15 GMT
the problem is, that some folk cannot see that you can actually (constructively) question TP and still love what he's done/doing for us. As someone who loves TP but is open to saying it as he sees it, I see the Rimmers as far more one-eyed than the so-called PHW's. I think both sides are as one-eyed as each other. But, of the two extremes, I'd take the naivety of a happy clapper in the bad times over the knocker's determination to search out negatives even when things are going brilliantly.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 25, 2011 22:29:24 GMT
the problem is, that some folk cannot see that you can actually (constructively) question TP and still love what he's done/doing for us. As someone who loves TP but is open to saying it as he sees it, I see the Rimmers as far more one-eyed than the so-called PHW's. I think both sides are as one-eyed as each other. But, of the two extremes, I'd take the naivety of a happy clapper in the bad times over the knocker's determination to search out negatives even when things are going brilliantly. I find both infuriating to be honest. But the sad thing is that honest attempts to raise a bit of reasonable discussion on here are increasingly dragged down by people who insist on lumping everything into the pro/anti debate. Was there really anything that inflammatory in Mark's original post? It's telling that few people in the thread have actually disagreed with anything he actually wrote - they've just chosen to have a pop at him because of their perception of his stance on one particular side of the divide.
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Post by ParaPsych on Sept 25, 2011 22:47:49 GMT
I think both sides are as one-eyed as each other. But, of the two extremes, I'd take the naivety of a happy clapper in the bad times over the knocker's determination to search out negatives even when things are going brilliantly. I find both infuriating to be honest. But the sad thing is that honest attempts to raise a bit of reasonable discussion on here are increasingly dragged down by people who insist on lumping everything into the pro/anti debate. Was there really anything that inflammatory in Mark's original post? It's telling that few people in the thread have actually disagreed with anything he actually wrote - they've just chosen to have a pop at him because of their perception of his stance on one particular side of the divide. Do you not think using the term "apologists" was ever so slighty inflammatory? I suggest Mark knew exactly what reaction he'd get.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 25, 2011 22:49:40 GMT
I find both infuriating to be honest. But the sad thing is that honest attempts to raise a bit of reasonable discussion on here are increasingly dragged down by people who insist on lumping everything into the pro/anti debate. Was there really anything that inflammatory in Mark's original post? It's telling that few people in the thread have actually disagreed with anything he actually wrote - they've just chosen to have a pop at him because of their perception of his stance on one particular side of the divide. Do you not think using the term "apologists" was ever so slighty inflammatory? I suggest Mark knew exactly what reaction he'd get. Perhaps. It's still pretty reasoned stuff on the whole, the content of which none of those getting themselves all worked up have actually really bothered to argue against.
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Post by bogus on Sept 25, 2011 22:51:29 GMT
I think theres one or two simplists on this board who think that, for example, we did well against Manure because we played with Wilko at RB. They've been telling us for years Wilko is better in that position than anyone else and finally because Pulis has seen the light. When we started off on this journey in the depths of the Championship and relegation certainties 2 years on the trot in that league, Pulis had a plan to get from A to B. I defy any Stokie to say that position "B" would be any further along than our status today and its not about Wilko or Huth at RB or whether Crouch is value for money or Walters is no better that Championship standard. Its about management and its about TP. some dunna like to admit it That we set up with a proper right back at right back yesterday WAS absolutely pivotal to our performance against Man Utd. I'd like to hear the argument that it wasn't. I thought it was because Whelan and Delap dominated Anderson and Fletcher, to be honest. Also, Crouchie had a great second half and was linking up with just about everyone around him. Walters was closing down everything that moved (fucking incredible energy, this guy). It all meant that we were able to spend much more time on the front foot, where we play most of our football, and both of our full backs were able to get forward, which they both did very well. Wilko had an excellent game, but the pivotal thing was the two guys in the middle, Crouch and Walters for me. Just an opinion, like
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Post by ParaPsych on Sept 25, 2011 22:52:04 GMT
Do you not think using the term "apologists" was ever so slighty inflammatory? I suggest Mark knew exactly what reaction he'd get. Perhaps. It's still pretty reasoned stuff on the whole, the content of which none of those getting themselves all worked up have actually really bothered to argue against. Indeed, he is a cunning fucker that Mr Wolstanton...
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Post by Deleted on Sept 25, 2011 23:01:07 GMT
That we set up with a proper right back at right back yesterday WAS absolutely pivotal to our performance against Man Utd. I'd like to hear the argument that it wasn't. I thought it was because Whelan and Delap dominated Anderson and Fletcher, to be honest. Also, Crouchie had a great second half and was linking up with just about everyone around him. Walters was closing down everything that moved (fucking incredible energy, this guy). It all meant that we were able to spend much more time on the front foot, where we play most of our football, and both of our full backs were able to get forward, which they both did very well. Wilko had an excellent game, but the pivotal thing was the two guys in the middle, Crouch and Walters for me. Just an opinion, like They were all parts of the same thing - the balance in the team. That we were able to play on the front foot was due partly to the fact that we had full backs who were prepared to overlap and make themselves available in the final third. This gives the wingers more freedom and hence we're able to play more positively. Having Huth at right back constrains Pennant on the right, puts more pressure on the left wing, and generally invites more pressure as he doesn't get forward as much and doesn't link with Pennant as well. Therefore we're not able to get on the front foot as often.
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Post by MarkWolstanton on Sept 25, 2011 23:02:53 GMT
the problem is, that some folk cannot see that you can actually (constructively) question TP and still love what he's done/doing for us. As someone who loves TP but is open to saying it as he sees it, I see the Rimmers as far more one-eyed than the so-called PHW's. I think both sides are as one-eyed as each other. But, of the two extremes, I'd take the naivety of a happy clapper in the bad times over the knocker's determination to search out negatives even when things are going brilliantly. In which case one of us doesn't understand that the purpose of this message board is to discuss all things Stoke City good or bad. The original post on this thread simply celebrated the fact that some myths proposed by the people who will not allow discussion they perceive as anti- manager to take place had been blown away by the manager and players. If you are more comfortable in a World where supporters do not look to discuss aspects they would like to see improved I think you are going to be disappointed. It's what supporters do. How many times do you want people to say how much better things are now than a few years ago? The fact that like most supporters I didn't want Pulis back has never stopped me from stating he has done a great job and neither does it mean I can't criticise what he does to benefit from that. Given that I supported his original appointment when many were critical I feel I've got a reasonably balanced view although I'm a bit prone to scepticism. If you prefer the see no evil, won't hear any evil approach of the Wandonlodges then so be it. I tend to leave that to the Official SCFC site! God knows why I'm bothering to explain myself but there you go. It's just another thread wrecked by the usual suspects who in the absence of anything constructive to contribute prefer to personalise matters.
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Post by onionman on Sept 25, 2011 23:06:20 GMT
I think both sides are as one-eyed as each other. But, of the two extremes, I'd take the naivety of a happy clapper in the bad times over the knocker's determination to search out negatives even when things are going brilliantly. I find both infuriating to be honest. But the sad thing is that honest attempts to raise a bit of reasonable discussion on here are increasingly dragged down by people who insist on lumping everything into the pro/anti debate. Was there really anything that inflammatory in Mark's original post? It's telling that few people in the thread have actually disagreed with anything he actually wrote - they've just chosen to have a pop at him because of their perception of his stance on one particular side of the divide. I thought the initial post raised some good and valid points. It had an air of begrudging praise about it (carefully avoiding patting the manager on the back and still finding room for a bit of a whinge) but no it wasn't inflammatory and yes I agreed with most of the points Mark made. It was the over-the-top and misleading comments about the Sunderland match - at a time when the club, manager and players are doing us all proud - that I thought were silly. We've played 12 games this season. In almost all of them, we've achieved as good or better than we could have hoped. We were rubbish in the 11th. Why, 24 hours after a performance arguably surpassing anything we've managed in 30 years, would any Stoke fan choose to start crying about the single blip on our season so far, which happened a week earlier, and which had mitigating circumstances anyway?
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