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Post by mark71 on Jun 1, 2011 9:00:14 GMT
Didn't Kenwne Jones sign a 4 year deal 12 months before he signed for us? Yes but he wasnt on £90k a week The £90k a week includes his signing on fee because he was on a free transfer. if you take that off his basic pay is only(!) £45k per week.
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Post by toddyssilkyskills on Jun 1, 2011 9:01:06 GMT
Nah, Pennant and Ethers arn't built like Giant Haystacks, Joe Cole has huge quality and imo is when fit the best sided Left midfielder for the national team, he's one hell of a player that hasn't settled for Liverpool, I believe at a club of our size he'd become a bit of a legend. If TP is looking to add more to or game steadily then we could do a lot worse than Cole, extra options, who knows what TP has planned to mix up our play. Cole is 10x the player of Tuncay and is a player you could build a new tactic around, no harm in a plan b & C. it hasn't been his day since about 2006. Didn't you once say that about Barton & Nolan, I might be able to root it out for you if you like? ;D 2006 is going a bit to the extreme too, thats more Keiron Dyer territory.
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Post by toddyssilkyskills on Jun 1, 2011 9:04:13 GMT
Yes but he wasnt on £90k a week The £90k a week includes his signing on fee because he was on a free transfer. if you take that off his basic pay is only(!) £45k per week. Genius. Think i can remember that too. Very doable if this is the case, who knows, we could get him for a very small fee or a loan deal with a bit of panache.
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Post by drwhom on Jun 1, 2011 9:17:41 GMT
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Post by robinredcoat on Jun 1, 2011 9:18:48 GMT
Joe Cole is a wonderful player, and I would walk to Liverpool myself and give him a piggy back to The Britannia Stadium. I don't buy this 'doesn't fit into the way we play' nonsense - Tony has said enough times he is trying to evolve our play, and we have changed things over the last few years. However, the issue is wages, and I'm not sure Uncle Peter would stretch to anywhere near his current salary. What he said...... Just stepping back for a minute, its amazing to think how far we have come with people suggesting they wouldn't be keen on a player like Joe Cole! if anything demonstrates the progress we have made,this does. I believe Cole would be a fabulous signing for us, aplayer who has lost his way somewhat, frozen out of the England picture, with a major tournament coming up at the end of next season. His fitness has been poor over the last 2 years, and everything points to him needing to take a step down to try to resurrect his career! Wages will no doubt be a problem, but it depends whether money alone, or getting his career back on track is more important to him. If TP is interested, I suspect hes seen soemthing in him that says the latter. Don't forget wages were also an issue for Kenwyne and JP, both of whom took a drop to come to Stoke. Doing that goes someway to suggesting they have the "right DNA." I'd love him to come here, I think we shouldn't get hung up on this "Tunny didn't fit in so other flair players wouldn't" theory. I think the issues were clearly different with Tunny. I'd love to see him here and think he could offer a lot to Stoke in a variety of roles, out wide, in the hole behind Jones, and centre Midfield.
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Post by cobhamstokey on Jun 1, 2011 9:21:31 GMT
For me there'd be no point signing him as he's always injured we don't want another Kieren Dyer on our hands. For me we'd be better off signing Poulson or Lucas however that looks unlikely now.
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Post by Beardy200 on Jun 1, 2011 9:48:03 GMT
it hasn't been his day since about 2006. Didn't you once say that about Barton & Nolan, I might be able to root it out for you if you like? ;D 2006 is going a bit to the extreme too, thats more Keiron Dyer territory. 2006? You must have had about 12 usernames since then. ;D
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Post by Vadiation_Ribe on Jun 1, 2011 10:01:15 GMT
Joe Cole = yes please. He'd be the biggest signing we've made since I can't remember...
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Post by Deleted on Jun 1, 2011 11:11:01 GMT
Too small and lightweight for a tp midfield???? Blankety blank time........... "Blank" Whelan.....anyone?
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Post by FullerMagic on Jun 1, 2011 11:22:34 GMT
Time will tell if Whelan can keep his form up - but, whatever else he is, he's a bit of a Duracell bunny who works his arse off, is disciplined defensively and likes a tackle. Although portayed as a 'passer', he actually seems to enjoy being the Gattuso-type that Trapattoni dubbed him.
His 'passing', when it fires, is almost a bonus to the disciplined Pulis basics he brings to the table.
Even when he was at his best, the idea of putting a freewheeling attacking spirit like Cole in a Pulis midfield 2 does seem a bit eccentric.
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Post by Paul Spencer on Jun 1, 2011 11:26:23 GMT
Joe Cole is a wonderful player, and I would walk to Liverpool myself and give him a piggy back to The Britannia Stadium. I don't buy this 'doesn't fit into the way we play' nonsense - Tony has said enough times he is trying to evolve our play, and we have changed things over the last few years. However, the issue is wages, and I'm not sure Uncle Peter would stretch to anywhere near his current salary. People used EXACTLY the same argument to justify TP's decision to buy Tuncay, when people dared to suggest that he also wouldn't fit into our system. Joe Cole (on his day) might be a better player than Tuncay but that's irrelevant, his best position on a football field (as Rob has already stated) is the same position as Tuncay's is, a position that hasn't ever existed, in a Tony Pulis football team.
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Post by salopstick on Jun 1, 2011 11:35:29 GMT
the trouble with buying these "superstar name" type players on big money is the effect on the rest of the squad
we fund cole at 40-50+k per week then other players may get jealous and want a pay rise or it could affect team spirit
regardless of how good cole is i would prefer cheaper just as good alternatives. we should be buying the BEST of the championship or teams around us who are hungry to play and succeed instead of targeting big 4 team's players on the way down
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Post by Deleted on Jun 1, 2011 11:36:55 GMT
Fullermagic thats exactly my point.glenn is an oompa loompa compared to the so-called TP "right dna" but does a damn good despite his size therefore being little is not necessarily a problem.i also think that altho he does like to tackle others,he doesnt tend to fare well when being tackled himself,i think Coles extra guile and skill could edge it over glenn.i was simply disputing that size is important (i am a bloke after all)
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Post by FullerMagic on Jun 1, 2011 11:43:56 GMT
Fair enough, Mick.
I agree on the size point - which is why you can see Vaughan being an option, despite his height.
But although talk of the 'cage' is probably a bit overplayed, can you see Cole having the defensive discipline to play in central midfield for a Pulis team?
His first thought is always the Hollywood pass or the stepover. He's totally uncageable.
There would be more leeway on the wing - but if he deigned to come to l'il old Stoke City, he'd want to be one of the main men, wouldn't he?
And that'd mean he'd have to figure above Pennant and Etherington in the notional pecking order, which seems unlikely.
Dalglish seems to have made his mind up on Cole, for what it's worth, as well
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Post by Deleted on Jun 1, 2011 11:57:32 GMT
Thats the thing thoufh,i think with TP's evolution theory of the xlub I think we may see less of the two sturdy centre mids idea and be moving towards the one sturdy,one creative idea (which was why we got Wilson in after all.yes Wilson also does get back more than Cole would but if we strengthen our defence this summer I could see it working.we're a different team than we were when we had tuncay and the attacking options with Cole,Matty and Pennant could be awesome
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Post by Paul Spencer on Jun 1, 2011 12:12:01 GMT
Thats the thing thoufh,i think with TP's evolution theory of the xlub I think we may see less of the two sturdy centre mids idea and be moving towards the one sturdy,one creative idea (which was why we got Wilson in after all.yes Wilson also does get back more than Cole would but if we strengthen our defence this summer I could see it working. we're a different team than we were when we had tuncay and the attacking options with Cole,Matty and Pennant could be awesome In what way? We're still playing with two wingers and deep lying forward doing plenty of leg work in the space between the striker leading the line and the midfield. How many teams in the prem play with two out and out wingers and a creative central midfielder, in a four man midfield? Spurs are the only team I can think of the, however the way 'Arry plays football is completely different to TP.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 1, 2011 12:14:19 GMT
Joe Cole would be a fantastic signing.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 1, 2011 12:23:06 GMT
Paul we're different in terms of confidence and tempo going forward.tunc was mostly used out wide which certainly wouldnt be necessary with cole and walters has far more confidence and nouse at getting in the right positions now.having someone like cole incthe middle would enable the forwards to not have to lie so deep (which is at the moment why there are so many times that crosses come in and theres no-one in the box,forwards should not be having to lie deep,walters does at the moment so he can actually get some possession,it doesnt mean he should be having to though.he's a forward and should be furthrr up the pitch then he tends to be nowadays) and out of interest,since when has KJ ever been known for "putting in plenty of legwork"??????
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Post by Deleted on Jun 1, 2011 12:27:43 GMT
Staggers me though that people slate TP for not moving the team on and then if he thiks of ways to do it then its a case of "we cant do that,thats not how TP plays"....talk about a no win situation! The man himself said we would gradually evolve;evolution not revolution! You never know guys,moves like this could eventually give you the kind of football you've been criticisng TP for for NOT playing previously! Just no pleasing some people
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Post by toddyssilkyskills on Jun 1, 2011 12:32:33 GMT
People are suggesting that Cole if purchased would be used as a central midfield player ??? he can play 4 different positions ( ideal when you have a 25 man squad). He is English (bonus) and how I see it is currently we need cover & compitition for both wings, a ball playing CM player also, an option to have of a player of his calibre who can play in the hole too if need be .
Signing Joe Cole and getting him fit would improve our first 11 no end. He may of not done much for 2 years but players of his calibre never lose it.
I can't believe people are suggesting that Cole would not "fit in" at Stoke, seriously.
Say Stoke played Everton next season and a fit Cole was in their central midfield, or on either wing, we'd be shitting bricks because he's better than anything we have.
If it's possible sign him up.
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Post by northantsash on Jun 1, 2011 12:33:11 GMT
1. has joe cole expressed a desire to leave liverpool after 1 season of a which a substantial amount he was injured? 2. has joe cole got the desire to play somehwere for footballing reasons? 3. is joe cole value for money at £50 k a week if he is injury prone and hasnt really fired for several years?
if you can honestly answer those questions with a yes, then he would be a good signing. my biggest worry re cole is fitness and his attitude - not of the stoke mould at all.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 1, 2011 12:36:18 GMT
And tuncay (attitude) and carew (wages) were better options were they???
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Post by toddyssilkyskills on Jun 1, 2011 12:36:56 GMT
sorry, but if we can pay Gudjohnsson for his 'role' in last season, and Tuncays for his role, Cole is in the same bracket but 10 x better. There is no doubt in my mind at least that Cole would be a huge hit at Stoke in a number of positions.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 1, 2011 12:40:29 GMT
Joe Cole is a wonderful player, and I would walk to Liverpool myself and give him a piggy back to The Britannia Stadium. I don't buy this 'doesn't fit into the way we play' nonsense - Tony has said enough times he is trying to evolve our play, and we have changed things over the last few years. However, the issue is wages, and I'm not sure Uncle Peter would stretch to anywhere near his current salary. Jesus Christ... Evolution is a slow, gradual process, by definition. Bringing in a player whose best position doesn't exist in our team is NOT 'evolution' in any sense of the word. It requires drastic changes to get the best out of them. How many Tuncays and Gudjohnsens have to rot on the bench before people get the hang of this?
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Post by Deleted on Jun 1, 2011 12:42:02 GMT
it hasn't been his day since about 2006. Didn't you once say that about Barton & Nolan, I might be able to root it out for you if you like? ;D 2006 is going a bit to the extreme too, thats more Keiron Dyer territory. It still stands for Nolan. He's excelled, for the most part at Newcastle in an attacking midfield role that we don't possess and which doesn't require the defensive responsibilities we demand of our midfielders. Barton was never about him fitting in ON the pitch. It was more of him being a psychopath and troublemaker.
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Post by tonedepear on Jun 1, 2011 12:42:11 GMT
Blankety blank time........... "Blank" Whelan.....anyone? Noel?
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Post by Deleted on Jun 1, 2011 12:43:58 GMT
Too small and lightweight for a tp midfield???? Blankety blank time........... "Blank" Whelan.....anyone? Whelan is a defensive-minded midfielder who can win a header and get stuck in. Which of these things is Joe Cole?
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Post by toddyssilkyskills on Jun 1, 2011 12:44:38 GMT
Joe Cole is a wonderful player, and I would walk to Liverpool myself and give him a piggy back to The Britannia Stadium. I don't buy this 'doesn't fit into the way we play' nonsense - Tony has said enough times he is trying to evolve our play, and we have changed things over the last few years. However, the issue is wages, and I'm not sure Uncle Peter would stretch to anywhere near his current salary. Jesus Christ... Evolution is a slow, gradual process, by definition. Bringing in a player whose best position doesn't exist in our team is NOT 'evolution' in any sense of the word. It requires drastic changes to get the best out of them. How many Tuncays and Gudjohnsens have to rot on the bench before people get the hang of this? So when he played Left Wing for England he was shit then? even his 3rd best position when fit is better than we currently have. To suggest Joe Cole would not "fit" in at Stoke is ... well... ;D ;D ;D
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Post by Paul Spencer on Jun 1, 2011 12:47:15 GMT
Paul we're different in terms of confidence and tempo going forward.tunc was mostly used out wide which certainly wouldnt be necessary with cole and walters has far more confidence and nouse at getting in the right positions now.having someone like cole incthe middle would enable the forwards to not have to lie so deep (which is at the moment why there are so many times that crosses come in and theres no-one in the box,forwards should not be having to lie deep,walters does at the moment so he can actually get some possession,it doesnt mean he should be having to though.he's a forward and should be furthrr up the pitch then he tends to be nowadays) and out of interest,since when has KJ ever been known for "putting in plenty of legwork"?????? Tunc wasn't mostly used out wide at all. I don't follow your logic ... how would replacing one of our 'cage' dewellers with Joe Cole, then allow our deep lying forward to be freed from his defensive duties? Under TP we have THREE players, the two centre mids and the deep lying striker doing the leg work, using your logic, we would end up with just one player performing that role - it's never going to happen. KJ didn't put a shift in when he was played in the hole and of course, he has been transformed since he's been used as the player leading the line.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 1, 2011 12:47:50 GMT
And attitude-wise lets remember that a certsin tattooed winger used to have one of the most questionable attitudes in the prem and abroad until TP got hold of him
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