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Post by Paul Spencer on Mar 7, 2011 22:49:03 GMT
The point I'm making chap, is that with a favourable draw, then a run of half a dozen games can see you win the FA cup ... for fucks sake, we've seen a relegated Pompey and Millwall reach the final in recent years. To gain promotion into the Premiership, you're going to have to achieve a helluva lot more than go on a flukey run. But flukey runs are exactly that - flukes, anomolies. You make it sound like any old team can string together a few games and get to the final. Let me remind you that it is something that we have never done in 140-odd attempts. We've got promotion to the top division loads of times. If you'd swap a cup success for relegation, then fair do's chap. For me, to see us the lift the cup, whilst at the same time knowing we'd swapped our place in the top flight for that single moment of glory, would make me feel like a complete mug. But hey I respect your opinion.
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Post by PotterLog on Mar 7, 2011 22:57:55 GMT
But flukey runs are exactly that - flukes, anomolies. You make it sound like any old team can string together a few games and get to the final. Let me remind you that it is something that we have never done in 140-odd attempts. We've got promotion to the top division loads of times. If you'd swap a cup success for relegation, then fair do's chap. Well, that was why I asked the question... I can't really decide My instinct is Prem survival, but the more I think about it - I mean really think about what it would be like and what it would mean, the more I lean towards the cup. Jesus, I've just remembered something - the final is before the final Prem game this season, so we could feasibly be at Wembley with a crucial final game still to play. Same applies to any title contenders who might be there...
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Post by trend....... on Mar 8, 2011 2:51:30 GMT
definitely the cup. i would still follow stoke if we were in the championship or even league two, and to be honest i might even enjoy it more because there would be something to fucking fight for unlike this season, which has been one of the most boring seasons for a long time. and even though ive been to wembley to watch stoke before, it would be completely different now im older and i would not turn down that chance for anything!!!
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Post by PotterLog on Mar 8, 2011 4:36:58 GMT
and even though ive been to wembley to watch stoke before, it would be completely different now im older Not to mention that it would be for the bloody FA CUP, not the Auto Windscreens Egg Cup...
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Post by apb1 on Mar 8, 2011 8:52:16 GMT
It is, of course, academic. I reckon any sort of victory on Saturday would be the springboard that gives us momentum for picking up 7-8 points over the rest of the league season.
But it's a good question. For me the chance to win the FA Cup would do it every time. The only thing I couldn't stand would be the 'look how far the Cup's been devalued when a little club like Stoke can win it.' bollocks in the media.
We will never win the league, and while I'd never wish for a return to the days of half-filled stadia and no decent players, I'd pay that price for the Cup, the open-top bus tour, the European games, etc. Parachute payments should ensure we at least have a chance of promotion for a couple of seasons.
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Post by dozintheseventees on Mar 8, 2011 9:17:34 GMT
The simple, and very obvious, answer to the question is that no-one in their right mind would sacrifice Premier League survival for an FA Cup win. However, I have no understanding whatsoever as to why the two are mutually exclusive at this stage. We need to win ONE game at home to West Ham in order to be at Wembly and there is no reason at all why we shouldn't be giving that our complete attention on Sunday. We should pick our strongest team and do all that we can to win, otherwise there is absolutely no point in us taking part in the first place. Of course players could get injured etc but does that mean we should play our reserves against Newcastle in case players get injured before the NEXT Premier League game? We have a fantastic opportunity to reach Wembley for an FA Cup Semi Final and hence the chance to do what even the great early 70s team couldn't quite manage. If West Ham are better than us on Sunday and deserve to win well good luck to them and I could live with that. What I couldn't live with is Stoke City turning their noses up at a fantastic opportunity to make history for our club and handing it to West Ham before we even get out on the pitch. That would be, for me, unforgiveable.
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Post by davejohnno1 on Mar 8, 2011 9:30:02 GMT
I'm hoping Pulis will play some of his fringe players on Sunday Doz! You know, the Sorenson's, Wilkinson's, Higgy's and Fuller's of this world. Maybe even Matty if he has recovered from his recent injury. Save the big guns, Walters, Pugh, Wilson and Whitehead until the game is won and we need their quality to run the clock down.
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Post by dozintheseventees on Mar 8, 2011 9:40:33 GMT
davejohnno1: ;D ;D ;D Yeh, it looks as though some of our 'BIg Guns' have been rested in recent Premier League games with thre FA Cup in mind. ;D
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Post by Yorkshirepotter on Mar 8, 2011 9:46:43 GMT
I would be happy with survival and a semi final defeat come the end of the season.
If i had to make a choise i would take the cup over staying up though. For my whole Stoke supporting life the FA Cup has been something other teams win. We have taken a tiny bit part in it but that is all. Now we are in a position to have a realistic chance of winning it and, after trips to Wembley in 92 and 2000 and the memories that i have from those days, the thought of MY Stoke City in the FA Cup final makes me feel the excitment i had for football as a kid.
There have been plenty of times i've felt down and pissed off with events this season but the idea of a trip (or 2) to Wembley Stadium with my little girl and my dad for two of the biggest games we have ever played in really does remind me why we take all the crap that goes with being a fan.
It's another reason why following Stoke is so much better than being a top 4 glory hunter. They will never know this feeling of anticipation and excitement before a game.
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Post by OldStokie on Mar 8, 2011 10:01:41 GMT
"The simple, and very obvious, answer to the question is that no-one in their right mind would sacrifice Premier League survival for an FA Cup win." That's a helluva assumption, Doz, to assume that those who would choose to win the cup whilst accepting relegation are out of their minds. Maybe I'm not the brightest spark on the block, but I would choose that option immediately. Why? What has The Premiership achieved for us? On the one hand, Coates has managed to buy the ground outright, has improved facilties at the club tremendously, and our finances must be one of the most stable in the land. That is one hell of an achievement! On the other hand, Stoke City is now the byword for dross. Our club has suffered; our fans have suffered, and our city has suffered from it. Some fans may not think that's important, but because we're now a worldwide brand, what the club represents is seen as what the city represents. If the question had been put slightly different: Would you prefer to win the cup and go down, or forego the cup and face a future in The Prem with a different manager, I would have, immediately, chosen to take the option of staying up. But, although all six of our season tickets for next season are bought and paid for, the thought of another season like this fills me with dread. On that basis, I would take the cup anyday. Not only would it be the greatest day in our history, it would present us with another challenge. I notice that some keep mentioning those clubs that have fallen almost permanently from grace. Equally, I can point to as many teams who have made that step right back up on the back of the financial inequality we would have over other clubs in The Championship. In my opinion, it would be a chance worth taking. OS.
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Post by mcf on Mar 8, 2011 10:07:38 GMT
I'm really not sure....beating Man Utd, Liverpool or Arsenal in the Cup Final would be awesome and never be forgotten. We would bounce straight back under SuperTone's expert guidance.
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Post by Cyprusdelilah on Mar 8, 2011 10:10:05 GMT
Id probably say FA Cup. Once in a lifetime opportunity. Also mean trips to stadio olimpico, munich, valencia etc potentially next year ;D More likely Dynamo Tiblisi, IK Start & an early exit to Apollon Limasol Nowt wrong with Limassol mate and I've seen Apollon play a few times last season, tidy team.
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Post by OldStokie on Mar 8, 2011 10:12:54 GMT
I'm really not sure....beating Man Utd, Liverpool or Arsenal in the Cup Final would be awesome and never be forgotten. We would bounce straight back under SuperTone's expert guidance.
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Post by dozintheseventees on Mar 8, 2011 10:31:43 GMT
Old Stokie: I take your point mate but my comments stem from my bewilderment as to why they are mutually exclusive. If forced to choose between winning the cup and going down then surely MOST would want to stay up, even if I agree with your comments about us so far in the Premier League because we all hope tp progress to a better place in time. I accept that you might not think that likely under Pulis but he won't be there forever. I accept that we COULD get relegated and come back stronger, better and more entertaining but the clubs that have done that are few and far between. More likely, we would spend some time striving to get back and be pretty much back at square one(i.e. doing whatever it takes to get up and stay up). That's where we are at right now. In order for our club to get to where I'd like to see them, we need to be in the Premier League with all the priviledge and finance that that affords us. I don't mean that I have aspirations of seeing us at the top end of the Premier League because I think that is unrealistic but I would like to see us surviving comfortably, maybe pushing for Europe but certainly attracting quality players and playing good football. That will be a million miles away if we are relegated and a quarter of a century of struggle at this club will have been largely wasted. That's not to dismiss the many good 'moments' in those years because it has been an absolute pleasure and passion to follow Stoke for all those years but we are where we strove to be and it would be madness to wish that away now in the name of trying to do it again, but do it better. We have a solid base and we need to build on it. I would love to win the FA Cup (or even simply reach the final) and, at the moment, I desperately want to reach the Semi Final. We are a couple of games away from creating history at Stoke and I'd love to be there to see it so I'm with you on that. However, given a straight choice (and it's certainly not that) then I think those who'd take the FA Cup over PL survival will be very much in the minority. I respect your views and I understand the point you make but I maintain that it would be madness to want to see this club relegated when it has been such a long, painful and often depressing road to get where we are.
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Post by OldStokie on Mar 8, 2011 10:38:16 GMT
I understand where you're coming from, Doz. I really do. But we'll have to agree to disagree. OS.
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Post by dozintheseventees on Mar 8, 2011 10:42:15 GMT
We all want the same things OS at the end of the day. We only differ on how we get there.
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Post by Mr_DaftBurger on Mar 8, 2011 10:44:09 GMT
"The simple, and very obvious, answer to the question is that no-one in their right mind would sacrifice Premier League survival for an FA Cup win." Cup ;D as we aren't ever going to win the Premiershit! Beating Arsenal with a 96th minute winner from a Rory throw would exorcise so many demons! I'm sick of the Premiershit and what it is doing to our club and fans. A nice promotion season would take away some of the drudgery under Martin O'Neills expert guidance!
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Post by dozintheseventees on Mar 8, 2011 10:46:56 GMT
O'Neill would have a pragmatic, workmanlike team of 'triers' to get him into the Premier League and to keep him there. He would then want Zillions to get a better team and move forward. All sounds a bit familiar don't you think?
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Post by jimmygscfc on Mar 8, 2011 10:54:08 GMT
It is a sad indictment of what seems to have happened to our football team when fans would sacrifice our Premiership status for a day in the sun. There's no guarantee we'd bounce straight back. Gates would drop as would income and we'd be a less attractive proposition to players. And what of the 3 year plan? Would relegation signal failure for Pulis when we looked relatively comfortable a month or so ago? Would Coates get rid? Would he heck as like.
Let's take the West Ham game for what it is. The chance to get one over on a team who comprehensively beat us last Saturday even though they're in the bottom three (or were). West Ham are improving and we're not so let's put away the bunting and cancel the open topped coaches. Win this weekend and get some much-needed momentum and confidence....nuff said.
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Post by Paul Spencer on Mar 8, 2011 11:20:55 GMT
Old Stokie: I take your point mate but my comments stem from my bewilderment as to why they are mutually exclusive. If forced to choose between winning the cup and going down then surely MOST would want to stay up, even if I agree with your comments about us so far in the Premier League because we all hope tp progress to a better place in time. I accept that you might not think that likely under Pulis but he won't be there forever. I accept that we COULD get relegated and come back stronger, better and more entertaining but the clubs that have done that are few and far between. More likely, we would spend some time striving to get back and be pretty much back at square one(i.e. doing whatever it takes to get up and stay up). That's where we are at right now. In order for our club to get to where I'd like to see them, we need to be in the Premier League with all the priviledge and finance that that affords us. I don't mean that I have aspirations of seeing us at the top end of the Premier League because I think that is unrealistic but I would like to see us surviving comfortably, maybe pushing for Europe but certainly attracting quality players and playing good football. That will be a million miles away if we are relegated and a quarter of a century of struggle at this club will have been largely wasted. That's not to dismiss the many good 'moments' in those years because it has been an absolute pleasure and passion to follow Stoke for all those years but we are where we strove to be and it would be madness to wish that away now in the name of trying to do it again, but do it better. We have a solid base and we need to build on it. I would love to win the FA Cup (or even simply reach the final) and, at the moment, I desperately want to reach the Semi Final. We are a couple of games away from creating history at Stoke and I'd love to be there to see it so I'm with you on that. However, given a straight choice (and it's certainly not that) then I think those who'd take the FA Cup over PL survival will be very much in the minority. I respect your views and I understand the point you make but I maintain that it would be madness to want to see this club relegated when it has been such a long, painful and often depressing road to get where we are. I agree with every word of that Doz, although I would have to concede (well based on this thread anyway) that we are actually the ones in the minority chap.
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Post by dozintheseventees on Mar 8, 2011 11:27:26 GMT
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Post by mcf on Mar 9, 2011 7:50:33 GMT
I don't think that you are necessarily in the minority but I think fans would be crazy not to look at the one opportunity of winning something when we've won one cup in over 100 years. It's a cup that we've never, ever won.
Don't get me wrong, being in the Premiership is ace but it is starting to wear off for many and the frustration is already starting to build.
I don't really want to live in the past and it's not an excuse for shit performances, but I do sometimes wonder how we can be where we are in the league and have so much fucking moaning on here.
Maybe, its human nature to always look to the next level but there isn't much further we can go when you factor in all of the other conditions.
Winning the Cup would be a massive thing, something that could never be taken away and would be a marker as the achievement on this journey of ours. If we beat a big club in doing so ie Man Utd, then I could dine off that for a life time.
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Post by bristolpotter123 on Mar 9, 2011 7:55:52 GMT
For the long term future of the club money, ie premiership status, has to come before glory. But whilst i don't think we can win the cup a semi final would be good to see Stoke at Wembley and despite last weeks awful performance we can beat West Ham.
On the premiership I can see the point but I think you only have to look at what Coyle has done at Bolton to see that it is possible to become a team that is good to watch and get points. Maybe a new manager or coaching set up
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Post by ParaPsych on Mar 9, 2011 7:59:14 GMT
Why do people bother if they're not much interested in seeing us win something? Are we so starved of success that people don't realise how amazing it would feel?
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Post by potterglen on Mar 9, 2011 8:06:46 GMT
Is there anyone who would take that if offered it now? Not a chance. Indeed, if I was offered now, a loss against West Ham on Sunday for a guaranteed win against Newcastle, I'd rip your hand off. I'd take your arm as well for good measure.
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Post by stokiejohn on Mar 9, 2011 9:16:38 GMT
I dont think we will consolidate in the premier league long term - and if we continue to play so poorly as we have most of this season could be going down this season . So i go for an Fa cup win which for me is the best competition there is - and one we can win !
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Post by wandonlodge2 on Mar 9, 2011 9:28:38 GMT
'On the other hand, Stoke City is now the byword for dross. Our club has suffered; our fans have suffered, and our city has suffered from it. Some fans may not think that's important, but because we're now a worldwide brand, what the club represents is seen as what the city represents.'
I can see... I think it's a pudding of some kind. Yes, yes it is a pudding and something is being done to it, I can't quite make it out. Oh, hold on, it's becoming clearer now - yes, that's it , it's being over-egged.
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Post by jimmygscfc on Mar 9, 2011 9:49:33 GMT
Despairing at the football we play in the Premiership would be no different to despairing at the way we play in the Championship. The problem is the manager and the way he sets teams up. Not to mention some of the players he signs (some of whom he gets rid of without so much as a 'by your leave'). He's not going to change any time fast so I'd rather be pissed off with him in the 'best league in the world' than shout at him in his dug out on a wet night in Scunthorpe!!!
I find it quite depressing that we're so tired of TP's idiosyncratic managerial methods that we're happy to exit stage left and go back to a lower division after years in the wilderness. Think back to that final game against Leicester and how you felt at the final whistle. I still get goosebumps now and winning the Cup but getting relegated would make me sick to my stomach. Hey, but each to their own........
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Post by skelman on Mar 9, 2011 9:57:16 GMT
Not a chance. Indeed, if I was offered now, a loss against West Ham on Sunday for a guaranteed win against Newcastle, I'd rip your hand off. Well said that man, give me a nail biting dreary 1-0 and 37 points anyday. +1, I absolutely agree. However I'd also like a point against Chelski the week after too!!
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Post by Deleted on Mar 9, 2011 11:04:45 GMT
Winning the Cup would be a massive thing, something that could never be taken away and would be a marker as the achievement on this journey of ours. If we beat a big club in doing so ie Man Utd, then I could dine off that for a life time. Believe me, it wouldn't matter who we beat, we'd be dining off it for years anyway ;D Because of where I live most of my mates are Cov fans and you should see their faces light up when they talk about 1987. Obviously, we'd all take staying in the Prem and winning something, goes without saying, but the OP offered a choice. And knowing that our name would be engraved on that trophy forever, I'd sacrifice finishing 17th to 8th in the Prem each season. "You've never won f*ck all" from oppo fans hurts me a lot more than any criticism of how we play. I couldn't give a monkeys about what they think on that score. They're absolutely right about winning nowt though.
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