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Post by march4 on Dec 29, 2010 16:23:34 GMT
"McClaren was accused by rival managers as having a "pot of gold" provided by Gibson to buy players, giving him an advantage over other teams when signing players. Despite this, towards the latter end of his tenure McClaren was criticised by supporters of using negative tactics and earning Middlesbrough the tag of a "dull" side. Some observers attributed Middlesbrough's success to the senior, experienced players in the side rather than McClaren's managerial ability." I know admin don't like us pasting sections of other sites, but this is the summary of McClaren's time at 'Boro. He is a woeful manager. ;D Give it up March. And he has just had (last week) the dreaded 'vote of confidence' from the board at Wolfsburg as he plunges them down to the relegation zone. The man is as clueless as they come; a joke of a manager.
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Post by RAF on Dec 29, 2010 16:28:43 GMT
So nothing substantial then, just some hearsay? Ashley Young, Petrov, Agbonlahor and Carew have all showed their support of O'Neill in recent interviews. Funnily enough Carew and Young look to be going elsewhere in January. Coincidence?
H
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Post by roostersgonnagetya on Dec 29, 2010 16:29:38 GMT
Don't know how to say this without it coming out wrong, but so he fucking should with the amount of money he has spent, more than half of that has bought shite players and all in all shite football. Look at the money Sunderland have spent in the last few years and they're only just getting it right now. Look at the mess Villa are in - they've spent more than we have in recent years as well. Look at all the teams below us who've been here for so much longer and the millions they've spent over the years. You don't successfully turn yourself from a Championship team who have been away from the top flight for nearly a quarter of a century into an established Premier League team without spending some money, and you're invariably going to sign some duffers when you're doing that. Sunderland? Ask Captain Fish paste what their return in player sales is compared to their outlay, when you compare it to ours you might have an unpleasent shock. Besides, we are a unique case, Pulis has been given the sort of funds that other newly promoted havn't to get us to a stage where most managers with any tactical nouse and an eye for a player would get us. I'm yet to be convinced that Pulis knows how to spend money wisely, let alone make an investment in a player, or how to build a balanced football team, as i am yet to be convinced about his abilities as a tactition, these are all major part of a managers armoury. He can't spot a forward for toffee now he has the funds to do so, or a midfielder, he refuses to use the foreign market. Not the best ingrediants to put your trust in a manager to continue to blow hard cash when someone with more an idea how to spend it could be doing it.
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Post by alexk on Dec 29, 2010 16:29:54 GMT
Re: O'Neill supposedly being unpopular with the Villa players, is this necessarily a bad thing? Wasn't Macari disliked by many of the Stoke players during his time here?
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Post by march4 on Dec 29, 2010 16:31:12 GMT
Re: O'Neill supposedly being unpopular with the Villa players, is this necessarily a bad thing? Wasn't Macari disliked by many of the Stoke players during his time here? There has to be a barrier between leaders and led in any organisation.
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Post by roostersgonnagetya on Dec 29, 2010 16:31:53 GMT
And he has just had (last week) the dreaded 'vote of confidence' from the board at Wolfsburg as he plunges them down to the relegation zone. The man is as clueless as they come; a joke of a manager. ....... thats achieved minor miracles.
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Post by roostersgonnagetya on Dec 29, 2010 16:34:35 GMT
"McClaren was accused by rival managers as having a "pot of gold" provided by Gibson to buy players, giving him an advantage over other teams when signing players. Despite this, towards the latter end of his tenure McClaren was criticised by supporters of using negative tactics and earning Middlesbrough the tag of a "dull" side. Some observers attributed Middlesbrough's success to the senior, experienced players in the side rather than McClaren's managerial ability." I know admin don't like us pasting sections of other sites, but this is the summary of McClaren's time at 'Boro. He is a woeful manager. Did those senior Boro players win him the Dutch league with a no mark team as well? How did it work out for Boro when they replaced Schteve with one of those "senior players?" "Schteve" ;D As March was saying, the middlesborough fans believed the chairman was more important than the manager....... well we all know what happened there March, where are they now and what has McClaren done since.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 29, 2010 16:36:07 GMT
Look at the money Sunderland have spent in the last few years and they're only just getting it right now. Look at the mess Villa are in - they've spent more than we have in recent years as well. Look at all the teams below us who've been here for so much longer and the millions they've spent over the years. You don't successfully turn yourself from a Championship team who have been away from the top flight for nearly a quarter of a century into an established Premier League team without spending some money, and you're invariably going to sign some duffers when you're doing that. Sunderland? Ask Captain Fish paste what their return in player sales is compared to their outlay, when you compare it to ours you might have an unpleasent shock. Besides, we are a unique case, Pulis has been given the sort of funds that other newly promoted havn't to get us to a stage where most managers with any tactical nouse and an eye for a player would get us. I'm yet to be convinced that Pulis knows how to spend money wisely, let alone make an investment in a player, or how to build a balanced football team, as i am yet to be convinced about his abilities as a tactition, these are all major part of a managers armoury. He can't spot a forward for toffee now he has the funds to do so, or a midfielder, he refuses to use the foreign market. Not the best ingrediants to put your trust in a manager to continue to blow hard cash when someone with more an idea how to spend it could be doing it. I'm not sure I buy that Sunderland argument whatever fishy says to be honest. Roy Keane spent twice as much as us in Sunderland's first two seasons up and we finished comfortably above them. Sunderland have wasted a lot of money on shite in recent years regardless of who they sold to finance it.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 29, 2010 16:38:18 GMT
So nothing substantial then, just some hearsay? Ashley Young, Petrov, Agbonlahor and Carew have all showed their support of O'Neill in recent interviews. Funnily enough Carew and Young look to be going elsewhere in January. Coincidence? H www.goal.com/en/news/9/england/2010/08/10/2063791/aston-villa-players-celebrate-martin-oneills-exit-by-textingYeah, it must just be because O'Neill's not there anymore, not because, you know, they're in a relegation battle. Could you find me these interviews professing support since you're so keen on evidence and all that? What context were they in? Couldn't possibly be a hindsight-driven "grass is greener" type deal could it?
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Post by march4 on Dec 29, 2010 16:39:31 GMT
Did those senior Boro players win him the Dutch league with a no mark team as well? How did it work out for Boro when they replaced Schteve with one of those "senior players?" "Schteve" ;D As March was saying, the middlesborough fans believed the chairman was more important than the manager....... well we all know what happened there March, where are they now and what has McClaren done since. They were on the way to relegation thanks to McClaren's appalling leadership. The quote from Boro fans sums him up perfectly. It was the senior players who were behind the club's success in spite of their braindead manager. If he became our manager we would decline back to the 3rd Division very quickly. How anyone can defend this utter numpty is beyond me. I smile every time I think of him.
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Post by roostersgonnagetya on Dec 29, 2010 16:41:08 GMT
O Neil is a fantastic coach whichever way you look at it and the side he put together at villa before he had the rug pulled from underneath him was a fantastic team.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 29, 2010 16:41:30 GMT
"Schteve" ;D As March was saying, the middlesborough fans believed the chairman was more important than the manager....... well we all know what happened there March, where are they now and what has McClaren done since. They were on the way to relegation thanks to McClaren's appalling leadership. The quote from Boro fans sums him up perfectly. It was the senior players who were behind the club's success in spite of their braindead manager. If he became our manager we would decline back to the 3rd Division very quickly. How anyone can defend this utter numpty is beyond me. I smile every time I think of him. I like your hudson-esque tactic of attributing literally everything good that happened under McClaren's reign to someone else and everything bad that happened afterwards to McClaren. You're better at this PHW-stuff than you think
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Post by Deleted on Dec 29, 2010 16:42:13 GMT
O Neil is a fantastic coach whichever way you look at it and the side he put together at villa before he had the rug pulled from underneath him was a fantastic team. He spent an absolute fuckton to do it though and he signed a lot of overpriced shite as well.
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Post by march4 on Dec 29, 2010 16:42:25 GMT
O Neil is a fantastic coach whichever way you look at it and the side he put together at villa before he had the rug pulled from underneath him was a fantastic team. I totally agree about O'Neill. We will have to agree to differ over Shteve McClaren.
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Post by Beardy200 on Dec 29, 2010 16:42:46 GMT
Did those senior Boro players win him the Dutch league with a no mark team as well? How did it work out for Boro when they replaced Schteve with one of those "senior players?" "Schteve" ;D As March was saying, the middlesborough fans believed the chairman was more important than the manager....... well we all know what happened there March, where are they now and what has McClaren done since. After McClaren had spent all of Gibson's money it's hardly surprising. ;D As for what McClaren has done since, well he did a shit job with England, has won a league that none of us can claim we know anything about and is now not doing very well with Wolfsburg. I'd say it is a mixed record at best.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 29, 2010 16:44:39 GMT
"Schteve" ;D As March was saying, the middlesborough fans believed the chairman was more important than the manager....... well we all know what happened there March, where are they now and what has McClaren done since. After McClaren had spent all of Gibson's money it's hardly surprising. ;D As for what McClaren has done since, well he did a shit job with England, has won a league that none of us can claim we know anything about and is now not doing very well with Wolfsburg. I'd say it is a mixed record at best. That's making light of what he did at Twente, who had never won a league dominated by Ajax, PSV and Feyenoord. He got there, sold their star man and won the league. That's pretty good going.
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Post by roostersgonnagetya on Dec 29, 2010 16:46:51 GMT
As I've put above, these are my thoughts on Pulis below and I can't help but think the grass could be greener with a proven manager with a proven transfer recored ( such as O neil) and a proven tactical head on his shoulders.
Besides, we are a unique case, Pulis has been given the sort of funds that other newly promoted havn't to get us to a stage where most managers with any tactical nouse and an eye for a player would get us.
I'm yet to be convinced that Pulis knows how to spend money wisely, let alone make an investment in a player, or how to build a balanced football team, as i am yet to be convinced about his abilities as a tactition, these are all major part of a managers armoury.
He can't spot a forward for toffee now he has the funds to do so, or a midfielder, he refuses to use the foreign market.
Not the best ingrediants to put your trust in a manager to continue to blow hard cash when someone with more an idea how to spend it could be doing it. We have the direction in Peter Coates but the driver has had a few I reckon.
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Post by march4 on Dec 29, 2010 16:47:41 GMT
After McClaren had spent all of Gibson's money it's hardly surprising. ;D As for what McClaren has done since, well he did a shit job with England, has won a league that none of us can claim we know anything about and is now not doing very well with Wolfsburg. I'd say it is a mixed record at best. That's making light of what he did at Twente, who had never won a league dominated by Ajax, PSV and Feyenoord. He got there, sold their star man and won the league. That's pretty good going. And left the club in complete disarray after selling their best players and bringing in crap. Then jumps ship just as the manure is hitting the fan, just as he did at 'Boro. Now he is busy relegating Wolsburg. If you asked me to name the top 100 living English managers, he would not be in it. Was Mike Bassett based on McClaren?
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Post by drevil on Dec 29, 2010 16:49:15 GMT
getting rid of pulis would be suicide. As soon as you start dicking about with management you start to slide
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Post by Kirstendunstslovebubbles on Dec 29, 2010 16:49:51 GMT
getting rid of pulis would be suicide. As soon as you start dicking about with management you start to slide Charlton did the same thing and look what happened there!
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Post by Deleted on Dec 29, 2010 16:51:34 GMT
That's making light of what he did at Twente, who had never won a league dominated by Ajax, PSV and Feyenoord. He got there, sold their star man and won the league. That's pretty good going. And left the club in complete disarray after selling their best players and bringing in crap. Then jumps ship just as the manure is hitting the fan, just as he did at 'Boro. Now he is busy relegating Wolsburg. If you asked me to name the top 100 living English managers, he would not be in it. Was Mike Bassett based on McClaren? Could you verify that for me march or are you just full on making stuff up now? If so, I preferred your "Tuncay promised on his mother's life to adapt to our style of play" fly on the contract negotiations wall ;D
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Post by drevil on Dec 29, 2010 16:53:20 GMT
getting rid of pulis would be suicide. As soon as you start dicking about with management you start to slide Charlton did the same thing and look what happened there! i rest my case
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Post by Deleted on Dec 29, 2010 16:53:40 GMT
As I've put above, these are my thoughts on Pulis below and I can't help but think the grass could be greener with a proven manager with a proven transfer recored ( such as O neil) and a proven tactical head on his shoulders. Besides, we are a unique case, Pulis has been given the sort of funds that other newly promoted havn't to get us to a stage where most managers with any tactical nouse and an eye for a player would get us. I'm yet to be convinced that Pulis knows how to spend money wisely, let alone make an investment in a player, or how to build a balanced football team, as i am yet to be convinced about his abilities as a tactition, these are all major part of a managers armoury. He can't spot a forward for toffee now he has the funds to do so, or a midfielder, he refuses to use the foreign market. Not the best ingrediants to put your trust in a manager to continue to blow hard cash when someone with more an idea how to spend it could be doing it. We have the direction in Peter Coates but the driver has had a few I reckon. Can't spot a forward for toffee is harsh - it's a mixed record, but he has signed some good ones. Again, he's established us a Premier League side - that wasn't going to happen overnight and it wasn't going to happen cheaply. I know we're all disappointed about yesterday, but for the most part, things are going, realistically as well as we could hope for. Tactically I also think there's an argument that Pulis and TP aren't poles apart.
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Post by Beardy200 on Dec 29, 2010 16:54:18 GMT
After McClaren had spent all of Gibson's money it's hardly surprising. ;D As for what McClaren has done since, well he did a shit job with England, has won a league that none of us can claim we know anything about and is now not doing very well with Wolfsburg. I'd say it is a mixed record at best. That's making light of what he did at Twente, who had never won a league dominated by Ajax, PSV and Feyenoord. He got there, sold their star man and won the league. That's pretty good going. Maybe it was. As i said i know fuck all about the Dutch league and anybody who does (unless they live there) is full of shit. ;D It may have been truly brilliant but the Dutch league is the Dutch league. By it's very nature the best players piss off abroad at the first opportunity and it's incrediby difficult to know how great an achievement it was with any confidence as none of us know anything about the players or strengths of the squads he was competing with. As i said earlier, i've got no axe to grind with McClaren but he's nothing special when he's being discussed as a possible replacement for Pulis. The average Englishman thinks he's a joke and convincing home based players to come and play for him won't be as easy as some young, easily impressed Dutch kid who just remembers he was once the England manager. The whole thread is a joke anyway. I only got involved because he tried to suggest that McClaren got Boro into the top half of the premiership on some sort of a shoestring. That's just complete horseshit and needed correcting.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 29, 2010 16:55:49 GMT
That's making light of what he did at Twente, who had never won a league dominated by Ajax, PSV and Feyenoord. He got there, sold their star man and won the league. That's pretty good going. Maybe it was. As i said i know fuck all about the Dutch league and anybody who does (unless they live there) is full of shit. ;D It may have been truly brilliant but the Dutch league is the Dutch league. By it's very nature the best players piss off abroad at the first opportunity and it's incrediby difficult to know how great an achievement it was with any confidence as none of us know anything about the players or strengths of the squads he was competing with. As i said earlier, i've got no axe to grind with McClaren but he's nothing special when he's being discussed as a possible replacement for Pulis. The average Englishman thinks he's a joke and convincing home based players to come and play for him won't be as easy as some young, easily impressed Dutch kid who just remembers he was once the England manager. The whole thread is a joke anyway. I only got involved because he tried to suggest that McClaren got Boro into the top half of the premiership on some sort of a shoestring. That's just complete horseshit and needed correcting. It isn't that hard to suggest that winning the league with a smallish team who had never won it before is a pretty decent effort.
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Post by RAF on Dec 29, 2010 16:56:17 GMT
So nothing substantial then, just some hearsay? Ashley Young, Petrov, Agbonlahor and Carew have all showed their support of O'Neill in recent interviews. Funnily enough Carew and Young look to be going elsewhere in January. Coincidence? H www.goal.com/en/news/9/england/2010/08/10/2063791/aston-villa-players-celebrate-martin-oneills-exit-by-textingYeah, it must just be because O'Neill's not there anymore, not because, you know, they're in a relegation battle. Could you find me these interviews professing support since you're so keen on evidence and all that? What context were they in? Couldn't possibly be a hindsight-driven "grass is greener" type deal could it? The interviews I refer to were in newspapers I have read since his sacking, so I'm sure you could find them if you could be arsed. As for context, pretty much down the line of " How did you feel when MON was sacked?" answer " Asolutely gutted, great manager, well respected yada yada yada" But I'm sure players texting themselves pictures of champagne celebrating his departure is far closer to the truth. H I'd go as far as to say that they are the same person Rob!
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Post by Deleted on Dec 29, 2010 16:57:53 GMT
The interviews I refer to were in newspapers I have read since his sacking, so I'm sure you could find them if you could be arsed. As for context, pretty much down the line of " How did you feel when MON was sacked?" answer " Asolutely gutted, great manager, well respected yada yada yada" But I'm sure players texting themselves pictures of champagne celebrating his departure is far more near to the truth. H That isn't context though is it? It's different asking them now as to asking them say, a week after it happened or a month after it happened or five minutes aftter it happened. I don't see how the champagne thing is any less believable.
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Post by march4 on Dec 29, 2010 16:58:03 GMT
And left the club in complete disarray after selling their best players and bringing in crap. Then jumps ship just as the manure is hitting the fan, just as he did at 'Boro. Now he is busy relegating Wolsburg. If you asked me to name the top 100 living English managers, he would not be in it. Was Mike Bassett based on McClaren? Could you verify that for me march or are you just full on making stuff up now? If so, I preferred your "Tuncay promised on his mother's life to adapt to our style of play" fly on the contract negotiations wall ;D All my info comes from the most reliable Wikipedia . Look him up it is very revealing and describes him as the incompetent he truly is. And convince me that Tuncay did not get out of the hell hole of the Championship without making promises. It was we who had all of the trump cards, not him.
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Post by stokelad84 on Dec 29, 2010 16:59:02 GMT
So O'Neills 'favourites' who he played week in and week out miss him... How about players like Curtis Davies and Steve Sidwell who were frozen out and ignored by the manager? Davies in particular was looking forward to a new manager coming in, so he could finally get a fair chance.
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Post by Beardy200 on Dec 29, 2010 16:59:12 GMT
Maybe it was. As i said i know fuck all about the Dutch league and anybody who does (unless they live there) is full of shit. ;D It may have been truly brilliant but the Dutch league is the Dutch league. By it's very nature the best players piss off abroad at the first opportunity and it's incrediby difficult to know how great an achievement it was with any confidence as none of us know anything about the players or strengths of the squads he was competing with. As i said earlier, i've got no axe to grind with McClaren but he's nothing special when he's being discussed as a possible replacement for Pulis. The average Englishman thinks he's a joke and convincing home based players to come and play for him won't be as easy as some young, easily impressed Dutch kid who just remembers he was once the England manager. The whole thread is a joke anyway. I only got involved because he tried to suggest that McClaren got Boro into the top half of the premiership on some sort of a shoestring. That's just complete horseshit and needed correcting. It isn't that hard to suggest that winning the league with a smallish team who had never won it before is a pretty decent effort. I never said it wasn't Rob. ;D I'm just saying that as we know nothing about the league then we can't really say if it was a decent effort or a magnificent, lifetime achievement. What i can comment on with some confidence is his time at Boro and with England. He spent a fortune at Boro and did quite well but was a disaster with England. He's an OK manager with still a lot to prove in my eyes and hence if somebody offered me him instead of Pulis tomorrow i'd politely refuse.
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