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Post by gaznandi on Nov 18, 2010 19:53:04 GMT
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Post by nickscfc on Nov 18, 2010 19:54:42 GMT
I cant help feeling this Pennant deal is going to go tits up. We keep seeing negative reports regarding this deal. ffs hes such a great player for us as well.
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Post by stokie25 on Nov 18, 2010 19:56:07 GMT
So TP is peddling that old chestnut again  If the kid wants what he's worth we can forget him signing for us...we won't pay it! And before anybody tells me how shrewd he is, Pennant is worth as much as Jones but i'll bet my life he won't get it! |
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Post by Irish Stokie on Nov 18, 2010 19:59:36 GMT
I can only assume that we would have a deal done with Pennant in regard to his basic salary. Hopefully we'll get it done and dusted soon as if the price of less then £4M is to be believed, then he's an absolute steal!!
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Post by PickSCFC on Nov 18, 2010 19:59:44 GMT
So TP is peddling that old chestnut again If the kid wants what he's worth we can forget him signing for us...we won't pay it! And before anybody tells me how shrewd he is, Pennant is worth as much as Jones but i'll bet my life he won't get it! do you want us to end up like portsmouth? if we pay stupid wages out thats the way we will go |
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Post by banburypotter on Nov 18, 2010 20:00:32 GMT
it does appear to be all negative stuff, maybe its to throw everyone else off the scent so we can get the deal done with no interference
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Post by Deleted on Nov 18, 2010 20:01:59 GMT
So TP is peddling that old chestnut again If the kid wants what he's worth we can forget him signing for us...we won't pay it! And before anybody tells me how shrewd he is, Pennant is worth as much as Jones but i'll bet my life he won't get it! We don't know what he's on or what he's asking for do we? As good as Pennant is, it's surely an entirely sensible stance not to publicly announce you're prepared to break your wage structure is it? |
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Post by gaznandi on Nov 18, 2010 20:02:08 GMT
Perhaps he's not that concerned as he has Walters as a ready made replacement...  Seriously though, even me mate who supports the Hammers says we're playing the right way, with 2 'proper' skilful wingers racing down the byline and delivering quality time and again...so why dice with it...? |
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Post by bayernoatcake on Nov 18, 2010 20:03:53 GMT
I wish he'd just keep quiet.
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Post by stokelad84 on Nov 18, 2010 20:04:08 GMT
We want him, he wants to sign, but it has to suit our wage structure.
We only signed Jones after coming to an agreement which suited the club.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 18, 2010 20:05:03 GMT
I wish he'd just keep quiet. I do as well. About a lot of things tbh. |
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Post by stokie25 on Nov 18, 2010 20:09:38 GMT
No we don't know what Pennant wants but I'll bet you anything that we offer him a fraction of it.
We won't break our wage structure to keep him or any other decent player and so, sadly, i think we'll lose him.
Tone has been more lucky than shrewd imo given that we have taken advantage of the parent club wanting rid in the past, even if they subsidise the move. I reckon Pennant has done enough to be courted by other clubs who will pay him a decent salary.
When Tone peddles this shit, it's usually as a gentle let down and not a smoke screen as suggested
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teflondel
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Post by teflondel on Nov 18, 2010 20:13:03 GMT
It could simply be that they don't want the other players banging on the door demanding a wage rise again. They will have an idea of what he is on atm and would assume that he would be on similar when he signs perminantly, but by pre-emting this in the press stoke can pay a big signing on fee to JP and bring him in on budget without stiring up trouble in the dressingroom.
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Post by gaznandi on Nov 18, 2010 20:17:29 GMT
It could simply be that they don't want the other players banging on the door demanding a wage rise again. They will have an idea of what he is on atm and would assume that he would be on similar when he signs perminantly, but by pre-emting this in the press stoke can pay a big signing on fee to JP and bring him in on budget without stiring up trouble in the dressingroom. And it could/will also have his agent, Sky Andrew, hawking him around to allcomers willing to offer him a bit more than we will, and there'd be many... Remember, this is the agent of Sol Cambell and Defoe amongst others, so he's a ruthless fucker.. |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 18, 2010 20:27:56 GMT
No we don't know what Pennant wants but I'll bet you anything that we offer him a fraction of it. We won't break our wage structure to keep him or any other decent player and so, sadly, i think we'll lose him. Tone has been more lucky than shrewd imo given that we have taken advantage of the parent club wanting rid in the past, even if they subsidise the move. I reckon Pennant has done enough to be courted by other clubs who will pay him a decent salary. When Tone peddles this shit, it's usually as a gentle let down and not a smoke screen as suggested Jesus, where on earth to start with this... First of all, taking a player that another club can't see any value in and making him valuable is massively shrewd, isn't it? Second, if Pennant is asking for unrealistic wages, we're right not to cave in rather than bankrupting the club aren't we? You talk as if we haven't got any decent players, owing to the wage structure, when in fact we've got the best squad we've had in 30 years. |
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Post by stokie25 on Nov 18, 2010 20:37:33 GMT
we'll see then Rob. I think Pennants agent isn't sitting scratching his arse like you'd all believe. In the time he's spent with us i believe he's shown a complete turnaround from the player that left this league and if you think we're his number one option, you are deluded. I never suggested bankrupting the club at all!!! To listen to Pennant, he wants to stay, to listen to Tony, he's warning him about finances...not everybody bleeds for this club you know, despite how happy he is |
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Post by Lakeland Potter on Nov 18, 2010 20:40:46 GMT
I'm sure the story in today's Sentinel quoting Ethers' dad saying how much the club has done for Ethers and how delighted he is that he chose Stoke over other clubs, is not entirely unconnected with TP's quotes about Pennant and our wage structure. In fact I'd bet it is connected with the Pennant negotiations.
Pennant has said he would like to join us. That's good - but we all know that, like all footballers, Pennant will want the best deal he can get. TP's comments about our wage structure are our opening gambit in the negotiations with the player. No doubt similar negotiations are going on with Real Zaragosa.
It is frustrating for us fans - we just want him to put pen to paper. But, the real world of football contracts is much more complicated than we would like it to be - or it is for a club of moderate means who want to live within those means and not become the next Pompey.
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Post by trincostokie on Nov 18, 2010 20:42:58 GMT
If we get him for anywhere near the fee being suggested, then we should have a bit more scope to be able to come to some sort of arrangement re: wages. Obviously we have to stay within our wage structure, but surely something along the lines of a generous signing on fee plus £40-50 grand/week wages could basically equate to something more in keeping with what he is on now/what he will be expecting (given the fact that he will be getting taxed at a much lower rate in Spain, and so would be taking a big cut even by getting the same salary as he is currently on, in real terms).
Signing him for 2 million on a 3 year deal of £50 grand/week, with a signing on fee in the region of 2.5 million equates to a total cost of 12.3 million quid. The signing on fee is basically the equivalent of an additional 18 grand a week, taking his combined earnings upto just under 70 grand/week, which has surely got to be an absolute limit if we are going to stay in the realms of reason.
So basically, to sign a player of his worth for such a low fee makes it worth stretching the other aspects of the deal, for example, comparing the above to a scenario where we had to pay what he is worth (surely at least 6 million), that would leave only another 6.3 million to cover the other costs, so even without a signing on fee that means a salary of under 45 grand a week (within our wage structure) but probably not close to being an acceptable salary for JP/his agent.
So, in short, SIGN HIM UP TONE FFS!
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Post by TheBra1n on Nov 18, 2010 20:43:08 GMT
i assume they will do what they did with KJ and give him a 40k a week wage and a stonking great signing on fee
simples
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Post by gaznandi on Nov 18, 2010 20:46:33 GMT
we'll see then Rob. I think Pennants agent isn't sitting scratching his arse like you'd all believe. In the time he's spent with us i believe he's shown a complete turnaround from the player that left this league and if you think we're his number one option, you are deluded. Ahem, i refer the honourable member to « Reply #13 Today at 9:17pm »
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Post by stokie25 on Nov 18, 2010 20:46:49 GMT
If we get him for anywhere near the fee being suggested, then we should have a bit more scope to be able to come to some sort of arrangement re: wages. Obviously we have to stay within our wage structure, but surely something along the lines of a generous signing on fee plus £40-50 grand/week wages could basically equate to something more in keeping with what he is on now/what he will be expecting (given the fact that he will be getting taxed at a much lower rate in Spain, and so would be taking a big cut even by getting the same salary as he is currently on, in real terms). Signing him for 2 million on a 3 year deal of £50 grand/week, with a signing on fee in the region of 2.5 million equates to a total cost of 12.3 million quid. The signing on fee is basically the equivalent of an additional 18 grand a week, taking his combined earnings upto just under 70 grand/week, which has surely got to be an absolute limit if we are going to stay in the realms of reason. So basically, to sign a player of his worth for such a low fee makes it worth stretching the other aspects of the deal, for example, comparing the above to a scenario where we had to pay what he is worth (surely at least 6 million), that would leave only another 6.3 million to cover the other costs, so even without a signing on fee that means a salary of under 45 grand a week (within our wage structure) but probably not close to being an acceptable salary for JP/his agent. So, in short, SIGN HIM UP TONE FFS! It's not quite as simple as us holding the purse strings to avoid bankrupting the club afterall, is it Trin?  Good analysis |
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Post by stokie25 on Nov 18, 2010 20:48:06 GMT
we'll see then Rob. I think Pennants agent isn't sitting scratching his arse like you'd all believe. In the time he's spent with us i believe he's shown a complete turnaround from the player that left this league and if you think we're his number one option, you are deluded. Ahem, i refer the honourable member to « Reply #13 Today at 9:17pm »
Sorry Gaz...missed that...let you have that evidential point of cross examination then |
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Post by wigginbird on Nov 18, 2010 20:51:12 GMT
Jesus how much are Zaragoza paying him FFS
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Post by Deleted on Nov 18, 2010 20:53:16 GMT
we'll see then Rob. I think Pennants agent isn't sitting scratching his arse like you'd all believe. In the time he's spent with us i believe he's shown a complete turnaround from the player that left this league and if you think we're his number one option, you are deluded. I never suggested bankrupting the club at all!!! To listen to Pennant, he wants to stay, to listen to Tony, he's warning him about finances...not everybody bleeds for this club you know, despite how happy he is Show me where I said anything about us being his number one choice? If he doesn't come, he doesn't come. It'll be a crying shame, but if he wants silly money that's miles over and above what we're prepared to pay, we'll look for someone else. Isn't that how sensible clubs stay in business? |
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Post by bayernoatcake on Nov 18, 2010 20:55:27 GMT
Jesus how much are Zaragoza paying him FFS |
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Post by gaznandi on Nov 18, 2010 20:57:08 GMT
we'll see then Rob. I think Pennants agent isn't sitting scratching his arse like you'd all believe. In the time he's spent with us i believe he's shown a complete turnaround from the player that left this league and if you think we're his number one option, you are deluded. I never suggested bankrupting the club at all!!! To listen to Pennant, he wants to stay, to listen to Tony, he's warning him about finances...not everybody bleeds for this club you know, despite how happy he is Show me where I said anything about us being his number one choice? If he doesn't come, he doesn't come. It'll be a crying shame, but if he wants silly money that's miles over and above what we're prepared to pay, we'll look for someone else. Isn't that how sensible clubs stay in business? Feck me, and i put the 'not to worry cuz Walters is a ready made replacement' sentence as a joke...  |
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Post by trincostokie on Nov 18, 2010 20:57:41 GMT
If we get him for anywhere near the fee being suggested, then we should have a bit more scope to be able to come to some sort of arrangement re: wages. Obviously we have to stay within our wage structure, but surely something along the lines of a generous signing on fee plus £40-50 grand/week wages could basically equate to something more in keeping with what he is on now/what he will be expecting (given the fact that he will be getting taxed at a much lower rate in Spain, and so would be taking a big cut even by getting the same salary as he is currently on, in real terms). Signing him for 2 million on a 3 year deal of £50 grand/week, with a signing on fee in the region of 2.5 million equates to a total cost of 12.3 million quid. The signing on fee is basically the equivalent of an additional 18 grand a week, taking his combined earnings upto just under 70 grand/week, which has surely got to be an absolute limit if we are going to stay in the realms of reason. So basically, to sign a player of his worth for such a low fee makes it worth stretching the other aspects of the deal, for example, comparing the above to a scenario where we had to pay what he is worth (surely at least 6 million), that would leave only another 6.3 million to cover the other costs, so even without a signing on fee that means a salary of under 45 grand a week (within our wage structure) but probably not close to being an acceptable salary for JP/his agent. So, in short, SIGN HIM UP TONE FFS! It's not quite as simple as us holding the purse strings to avoid bankrupting the club afterall, is it Trin? Good analysis Cheers Shell....and then of course there is the fee we'd get back when we sell him in a couple of years, having reaped the rewards of his services in the form of further progress, maybe some silverware, and perhaps even a dabble in Europe.  |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 18, 2010 20:57:47 GMT
If we get him for anywhere near the fee being suggested, then we should have a bit more scope to be able to come to some sort of arrangement re: wages. Obviously we have to stay within our wage structure, but surely something along the lines of a generous signing on fee plus £40-50 grand/week wages could basically equate to something more in keeping with what he is on now/what he will be expecting (given the fact that he will be getting taxed at a much lower rate in Spain, and so would be taking a big cut even by getting the same salary as he is currently on, in real terms). Signing him for 2 million on a 3 year deal of £50 grand/week, with a signing on fee in the region of 2.5 million equates to a total cost of 12.3 million quid. The signing on fee is basically the equivalent of an additional 18 grand a week, taking his combined earnings upto just under 70 grand/week, which has surely got to be an absolute limit if we are going to stay in the realms of reason. So basically, to sign a player of his worth for such a low fee makes it worth stretching the other aspects of the deal, for example, comparing the above to a scenario where we had to pay what he is worth (surely at least 6 million), that would leave only another 6.3 million to cover the other costs, so even without a signing on fee that means a salary of under 45 grand a week (within our wage structure) but probably not close to being an acceptable salary for JP/his agent. So, in short, SIGN HIM UP TONE FFS! It's not quite as simple as us holding the purse strings to avoid bankrupting the club afterall, is it Trin? Good analysis It was I agree - the bit in bold is pretty much what me (and Tone ) have been saying isn't it? Plus you have to consider what effect paying a new player top whack will have on the reat of the squad. |
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Post by lordb on Nov 18, 2010 20:58:12 GMT
non-Spanish players get afvourable tax-breaks in Spain (or they did do)
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Post by stokie25 on Nov 18, 2010 21:04:19 GMT
what is our wage structure then rob? I'm ever so curious? |
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