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Post by Pretty Little Boother on Sept 2, 2010 16:26:31 GMT
Three excellent posts in a row, cheers JC, Bayern and MP.
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Post by Nick1984 on Sept 2, 2010 16:33:12 GMT
I think science and evolution have turned me into an hardcore atheist even though I've been sceptical my whole life. I've been fascinated by astronomy and dinosaurs since I was a kid.
You only have to look at dog breeding to see evolution on your doorstep. Look at Crufts, there's no way natural selection would produce such useless animals as sausage dogs.
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Post by Moosehead on Sept 2, 2010 16:39:52 GMT
No-one will ever understand, as us humans can't quantify infinity. There must be an end to the universe, and what is at the other side of it? If a god put it there, well, who put the god there?
Anyway, shouldn't science and religion be the same? Scientists have been looking for evidence of our existence, that evidence is the big bang - therefore, is the big bang essentially what happens when a God has just let one rip after a night on a galaxy curry?
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Post by MetalPotter on Sept 2, 2010 16:43:02 GMT
No-one will ever understand, as us humans can't quantify infinity. There must be an end to the universe, and what is at the other side of it? If a god put it there, well, who put the god there? Anyway, shouldn't science and religion be the same? Scientists have been looking for evidence of our existence, that evidence is the big bang - therefore, is the big bang essentially what happens when a God has just let one rip after a night on a galaxy curry? My R.E teacher tells us that, that Religion and Science are two sides of the same coin, because they're both trying to find out why we exist and how we exist.
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Post by Nick1984 on Sept 2, 2010 16:43:35 GMT
It's to do with matter, when a stupid amount of matter is crushed together with heat it explodes. Einstein figured that years ago, damn we used that knowledge to defeat the Japs in WW2 and the simpletons still don't get it.
''Something can't come from nothing duh!''
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Post by Pretty Little Boother on Sept 2, 2010 16:45:10 GMT
I have no qualms with the ideas of evolution, survival of the fittest and adaption being a fact of life; what I do have a problem with is people using it as an explanation for the existence of life as a whole.
If you trace it back far enough, there must be a stage you can pinpoint at which life first sparked into existence. Since the theory of evolution doesn't apply to inorganic matter, how can you claim that either a) the first organic cell evolved from a mineral molecule, or b) life just "happened", with no explanation for it?
These are questions to which answers never seem to even be attempted.
I'm not saying that a bearded man sitting on a cloud snapped his fingers, but there are other alternatives; such as a higher life form as a creator, which could still be called a "god", or life existing elsewhere in the universe, which could also be called "god".
You could always assume, also, that any "god" is not benevolent or all-powerful, just created the universe for a laugh, and is tinkering about with it, doing whatever he likes just for the craic, like a kid sitting and playing on the Sims.
Not a conventional viewing of "god", but as equally plausible as the ridiculous, hardcore creationist element of full theism, and the ridiculous, hardcore sneering of reasonless atheism.
Most sensible people will be in the middle, erring on one side of the other of agnosticism, and it's genuinely annoying when people claim that the "scientific" and "reasonable" way to look at things is complete atheism.
If some bible-bashing Deep-South dickhead came on here arguing the other side with as much naive and unreasonable conviction as some on here use for their atheist argument, he'd get shouted down and hounded out of the whole forum. It smacks of double standards, and I'd be arguing against him as well before anyone thinks otherwise. ;D
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Post by boothy on Sept 2, 2010 16:46:11 GMT
I don't really buy into the evolution crap, the main reason is that it's boring. But the Bible is just full of Horse shit. I think that we are all like ants and we are contained in a glass box where a big super race of people laugh at our misfortunes. And you think the bible is full of horse shit. ;D I think if there is one thing that is 100% true then it is evolution. You'd struggle to find one single scientist that thinks otherwise.
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Post by Moosehead on Sept 2, 2010 16:47:31 GMT
It's to do with matter, when a stupid amount of matter is crushed together with heat it explodes. Einstein figured that years ago, damn we used that knowledge to defeat the Japs in WW2 and the simpletons still don't get it. I'm down with that, but where did the matter come from ? That's the next step we need to take. The next step of proving how we came to be. And I'm sure we will, just maybe not for a few more hundred years. Or never, depending if we keep knackering the planet up. I much prefer that method of finding things out, rather than just settling for the fact it is all too complicated to think about, therefore there MUST be some sort of God out there.
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Post by Pretty Little Boother on Sept 2, 2010 16:48:13 GMT
I think if there is one thing that is 100% true then it is evolution. You'd struggle to find one single scientist that thinks otherwise. As a fact of life yes, but not as an explanation for how life came into existence. What did the first living thing evolve from?
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Post by MetalPotter on Sept 2, 2010 16:50:00 GMT
I have no qualms with the ideas of evolution, survival of the fittest and adaption being a fact of life; what I do have a problem with is people using it as an explanation for the existence of life as a whole. If you trace it back far enough, there must be a stage you can pinpoint at which life first sparked into existence. Since the theory of evolution doesn't apply to inorganic matter, how can you claim that either a) the first organic cell evolved from a mineral molecule, or b) life just "happened", with no explanation for it? These are questions to which answers never seem to even be attempted. I'm not saying that a bearded man sitting on a cloud snapped his fingers, but there are other alternatives; such as a higher life form as a creator, which could still be called a "god", or life existing elsewhere in the universe, which could also be called "god". You could always assume, also, that any "god" is not benevolent or all-powerful, just created the universe for a laugh, and is tinkering about with it, doing whatever he likes just for the craic, like a kid sitting and playing on the Sims. Not a conventional viewing of "god", but as equally plausible as the ridiculous, hardcore creationist element of full theism, and the ridiculous, hardcore sneering of reasonless atheism. Most sensible people will be in the middle, erring on one side of the other of agnosticism, and it's genuinely annoying when people claim that the "scientific" and "reasonable" way to look at things is complete atheism. If some bible-bashing Deep-South dickhead came on here arguing the other side with as much naive and unreasonable conviction as some on here use for their atheist argument, he'd get shouted down and hounded out of the whole forum. It smacks of double standards, and I'd be arguing against him as well before anyone thinks otherwise. ;D That reeks of scfc2010, apart from the American bit, although he could be from the look of him. ;D
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Post by Nick1984 on Sept 2, 2010 16:50:30 GMT
I thought the synthetic life experiment a few months back finally convinced people. Guess not.
I think too many people just stare at clouds to try and figure things out.
It's laughable people think a 'God' made all those billions of stars and trillions of planets just to have one inhabited by pets that he casts into fire for jerking off. But then belief in God does come from a time when man thought the sun travelled around the world and there were only 3 planets.
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Post by Moosehead on Sept 2, 2010 16:51:14 GMT
You could always assume, also, that any "god" is not benevolent or all-powerful, just created the universe for a laugh, and is tinkering about with it, doing whatever he likes just for the craic, like a kid sitting and playing on the Sims. Not a conventional viewing of "god", but as equally plausible as the ridiculous, hardcore creationist element of full theism Nail and head - there is no proof of God, so why do people look at me like a mentalist when I think we are just a marble in some pissed old fart's attic
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Post by Pretty Little Boother on Sept 2, 2010 17:01:09 GMT
I thought the synthetic life experiment a few months back finally convinced people. Guess not. I think too many people just stare at clouds to try and figure things out. It's laughable people think a 'God' made all those billions of stars and trillions of planets just to have one inhabited by pets that he casts into fire for jerking off. But then belief in God does come from a time when man thought the sun travelled around the world and there were only 3 planets. That's completely different. What you're arguing against there is man's influence and politics interfering with the already questionable moral existence of organised religion. Argue against all that all you want and it won't bother me, in fact I'd probably agree with you, but that's a completely separate argument than the existence of a Creator. And we also don't know that we're the be all and end all of life in the universe, there could be life on every single planet to some degree or another, we just haven't discovered it yet. To think otherwise is just close-minded arrogance.
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Post by Nick1984 on Sept 2, 2010 17:05:36 GMT
I don't believe in aliens because there's zero evidence, as with 'god'
However I 100% believe in the possibility of aliens as there's billions of stars and planets in similar circumstances to ours, there's even a remote possibility of bacteria on Mars.
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Post by MetalPotter on Sept 2, 2010 17:08:24 GMT
Reading what Nick has said, I think that should we find Aliens ever it will be a massive blow to all organised religion, (I don't think any holy books mention life on other planets.) And also a massive pro to evolutionism depending on how the aliens work and what their home planet is like. Personally I think aliens must exist, I also don't understand why scientists say that there cannot be life on local planets because they lack oxygen or water.
If aliens do exist why must they have the exact same requirements as us? Oops I've gone off topic a little, oh well.
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Post by ravenonthewing on Sept 2, 2010 17:11:39 GMT
Pretty much the same as Bayern And I neither believe or disbelieve the bible as I have no proof
But I strongly believe in God.
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Post by Moosehead on Sept 2, 2010 17:13:42 GMT
Debate on Newsnight tonight - 'physics and god'
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Post by boothy on Sept 2, 2010 17:13:42 GMT
I think if there is one thing that is 100% true then it is evolution. You'd struggle to find one single scientist that thinks otherwise. As a fact of life yes, but not as an explanation for how life came into existence. What did the first living thing evolve from? Yes well that hasn't been proven properly yet, has it? They're just theories and will stay that way until it is 100%. I for one, believe that the "Soup" theory is the most likely. All the needed elements were just floating around in the early waters of the Earth and they collided to form life.
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Post by Nick1984 on Sept 2, 2010 17:17:00 GMT
As a fact of life yes, but not as an explanation for how life came into existence. What did the first living thing evolve from? Yes well that hasn't been proven properly yet, has it? They're just theories and will stay that way until it is 100%. I for one, believe that the "Soup" theory is the most likely. All the needed elements were just floating around in the early waters of the Earth and they collided to form life.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Sept 2, 2010 17:17:35 GMT
I believe in evolution the big bang theory too, I'm just hedging my bets! ;D I don't know what the answer is but I believe in science and I believe in a form of God that helps me deal with the shite in life. And I'm definitely not religious.
What I have been taught in life is to question everything and that's what I do. I'm satisfied with what science has taught me but I still believe in a God of sorts. ;D
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Post by Orbs on Sept 2, 2010 17:18:58 GMT
Friday Dec 3rd at Nott'm Arena
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Post by boothy on Sept 2, 2010 17:21:31 GMT
Reading what Nick has said, I think that should we find Aliens ever it will be a massive blow to all organised religion, (I don't think any holy books mention life on other planets.) And also a massive pro to evolutionism depending on how the aliens work and what their home planet is like. Personally I think aliens must exist, I also don't understand why scientists say that there cannot be life on local planets because they lack oxygen or water. If aliens do exist why must they have the exact same requirements as us? Oops I've gone off topic a little, oh well. Well, it is possible for life on gas giant planets, scientists believe. They would be nothing like humans of course. I'm sure there are millions of civilization's out there. Not even just in our Universe, there could be thousands or even millions of other universe's. You could pretty much guarantee there is other life out there. I'd say if there is other life on our solar system then it will be in one of Jupiter's moons. And even then they'd be trapped underneath shit loads of ice.
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Post by Pretty Little Boother on Sept 2, 2010 17:22:03 GMT
If aliens do exist why must they have the exact same requirements as us? Oops I've gone off topic a little, oh well. I'm always wondering this, if there is such a thing as "adaptation" and "evolution" then surely that suggests that life can exist outside of different circumstances to ours.
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Post by Funky on Sept 2, 2010 17:28:05 GMT
It's no good knocking when there's no one in Boother I wish you would stop knocking all together.
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Post by boothy on Sept 2, 2010 17:29:12 GMT
If aliens do exist why must they have the exact same requirements as us? Oops I've gone off topic a little, oh well. I'm always wondering this, if there is such a thing as "adaptation" and "evolution" then surely that suggests that life can exist outside of different circumstances to ours. Ask God. He'll answer you straight away. ;D
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Post by Beloved Monkfish on Sept 2, 2010 18:24:46 GMT
I have no qualms with the ideas of evolution, survival of the fittest and adaption being a fact of life; what I do have a problem with is people using it as an explanation for the existence of life as a whole. If you trace it back far enough, there must be a stage you can pinpoint at which life first sparked into existence. Since the theory of evolution doesn't apply to inorganic matter, how can you claim that either a) the first organic cell evolved from a mineral molecule, or b) life just "happened", with no explanation for it? These are questions to which answers never seem to even be attempted. I'm not saying that a bearded man sitting on a cloud snapped his fingers, but there are other alternatives; such as a higher life form as a creator, which could still be called a "god", or life existing elsewhere in the universe, which could also be called "god". You could always assume, also, that any "god" is not benevolent or all-powerful, just created the universe for a laugh, and is tinkering about with it, doing whatever he likes just for the craic, like a kid sitting and playing on the Sims. Not a conventional viewing of "god", but as equally plausible as the ridiculous, hardcore creationist element of full theism, and the ridiculous, hardcore sneering of reasonless atheism. Most sensible people will be in the middle, erring on one side of the other of agnosticism, and it's genuinely annoying when people claim that the "scientific" and "reasonable" way to look at things is complete atheism. If some bible-bashing Deep-South dickhead came on here arguing the other side with as much naive and unreasonable conviction as some on here use for their atheist argument, he'd get shouted down and hounded out of the whole forum. It smacks of double standards, and I'd be arguing against him as well before anyone thinks otherwise. ;D Wow. I couldn't have summed up exactly how I feel any better than that, great post. Who says God has to be human/human looking? Why would he be? Anything outside of this planet is considered alien, so a God therefore by definition would be alien. I find it incredibly annoying when atheists say things like 'so you believe in a man with a big white beard in the sky'. The answer is no. Just because you're religious it does not mean you believe the media depiction of events, and to be honest most of the bible. To me, we cannot possibly ever hope to understand what happened when everything 'started'. We weren't there. Who says anything has to start or end anyway? Is this not a rule made up by the human race? 'Everything must have an end and a start'. Why couldn't the universe have always been there? The human race certainly didn't create the universe, so why should our rules be relevent when trying to understand it? And Boother you're totally spot on with regards to the athiests 'preaching'. They complain about religious people ramming their views down people's throat, yet would you ever hear a Christian say something like 'science is bollocks, God made the world so fuck off'.
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Post by ravenonthewing on Sept 2, 2010 18:40:57 GMT
It's no good knocking when there's no one in Boother I wish you would stop knocking all together. Whs that mate ???
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blaow
Youth Player
Posts: 430
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Post by blaow on Sept 2, 2010 19:06:16 GMT
I don't believe in god or anything, dont mind if other people do, just a few things that i just dont understand.....
"The world would be a better place if we all believed in god", and "I believe in god to get me through the shite in life..."
Does this mean that you have to convince yourself of something unfounded to give yourself a moral compass, or pillar of strength? Isn't it possible to do all this on your own really? I mean what physically changes inside a person when they begin to believe in a god?
If you believe in a god, because you've reasoned it, fair enough, but to believe in a god for the benefits... dont get that at all
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Post by shiny nosehair on Sept 2, 2010 19:10:02 GMT
Mugs, suprised at certain peoples views, not saying which side of the fence that I sit, not planning on offending anyone. Amen
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Post by Nick1984 on Sept 2, 2010 19:11:01 GMT
If religious people believe in the law because of their religion, if it was conclusively proved tomorrow that there's absolutely no God, would all these religious people suddenly have to reason to have any morals and go around raping eachother like chimps? I'm talking about average-Joe here, not the vatican
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