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Post by ravenonthewing on Jun 29, 2010 14:39:33 GMT
Once you've touched the ladies belly button it's the creation of a life...........fact Dammit, if only someone had told me touching my belly twice meant twins ;D No, that's one in the belly button and one up the Arry hole
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Post by Yorkshirepotter on Jun 29, 2010 15:18:19 GMT
a couple of questions then.
If your wife/ mum/ sister / girlfriend / daughter was raped and became pregnant because of this rape, is it wrong to have an abortion?
If a young woman, 16 - 19 became pregnant despite using contraception, is she wrong to have an abortion as she knows she is not ready to look after a child and cannot provide for a child properley or give it a good life?
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Post by Pretty Little Boother on Jun 29, 2010 15:31:29 GMT
a couple of questions then. If your wife/ mum/ sister / girlfriend / daughter was raped and became pregnant because of this rape, is it wrong to have an abortion? If a young woman, 16 - 19 became pregnant despite using contraception, is she wrong to have an abortion as she knows she is not ready to look after a child and cannot provide for a child properley or give it a good life? This old chestnut again, I don't buy it. Yes it is a tragedy, but two wrongs don't make a right, and even though it's an horrific set of circumstances, I don't see it as a justification for murder. If the young woman aged 16-19 is going to have sex, she should be prepared to accept the consequences. I don't see how people can have the sheer audacity to say that because the child might not have a good life, it should be denied the right to life. Should we abort any pregnancies that occur below the breadline? Should we fuck. It's an absolute disgrace that in a civilised society, we have a legal industry based in denying life.
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Post by rhodesy on Jun 29, 2010 15:34:05 GMT
Well, there is an answer to unwanted children other than murder, adoption! Abortion should never be the the answer in my opinion. Double effect is a hard topic however.
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Post by Irish Stokie on Jun 29, 2010 15:42:43 GMT
I think that every mother should have the choice to have an abortion. If some crackhead gets rode beside a canal and lives rough and can provide no future for her child other then a life of living on the streets were a life of drug addiction then i think it is best the mother have the choice to decide whether a child should have to live through that.
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Post by rhodesy on Jun 29, 2010 15:45:47 GMT
I think that every mother should have the choice to have an abortion. If some crackhead gets rode beside a canal and lives rough and can provide no future for her child other then a life of living on the streets were a life of drug addiction then i think it is best the mother have the choice to decide whether a child should have to live through that. The mother should find alternative arrangements for the child such as adoption.
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Post by Pretty Little Boother on Jun 29, 2010 15:50:17 GMT
I think that every mother should have the choice to have an abortion. If some crackhead gets rode beside a canal and lives rough and can provide no future for her child other then a life of living on the streets were a life of drug addiction then i think it is best the mother have the choice to decide whether a child should have to live through that. If she's a crackhead, arrest her and keep her until she has the child and then take it off her. If she's homeless but not a criminal then the state should be looking after her anyway by providing her with housing and benefits.
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Post by Beloved Monkfish on Jun 29, 2010 15:55:47 GMT
a couple of questions then. If your wife/ mum/ sister / girlfriend / daughter was raped and became pregnant because of this rape, is it wrong to have an abortion? If a young woman, 16 - 19 became pregnant despite using contraception, is she wrong to have an abortion as she knows she is not ready to look after a child and cannot provide for a child properley or give it a good life? This old chestnut again, I don't buy it. Yes it is a tragedy, but two wrongs don't make a right, and even though it's an horrific set of circumstances, I don't see it as a justification for murder. If the young woman aged 16-19 is going to have sex, she should be prepared to accept the consequences. I don't see how people can have the sheer audacity to say that because the child might not have a good life, it should be denied the right to life. Should we abort any pregnancies that occur below the breadline? Should we fuck. It's an absolute disgrace that in a civilised society, we have a legal industry based in denying life. Bang on the money
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Post by Miles Offside on Jun 29, 2010 16:13:20 GMT
Interesting topics, religion and abortion. Makes a change from the "signing imminent" thread.
Here's my two penneth:-
Holding people responsible for their actions is a bit old fashioned, isn't it? Anyone would think that women who get pregnant (along with the men who get them pregnant) shouldn't be creating children if they can't (or won't) look after them.
As for religion, God knows where we'd be without it.
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Post by stokie25 on Jun 29, 2010 16:36:09 GMT
a couple of questions then. If your wife/ mum/ sister / girlfriend / daughter was raped and became pregnant because of this rape, is it wrong to have an abortion? If a young woman, 16 - 19 became pregnant despite using contraception, is she wrong to have an abortion as she knows she is not ready to look after a child and cannot provide for a child properley or give it a good life? This old chestnut again, I don't buy it. Yes it is a tragedy, but two wrongs don't make a right, and even though it's an horrific set of circumstances, I don't see it as a justification for murder. If the young woman aged 16-19 is going to have sex, she should be prepared to accept the consequences. I don't see how people can have the sheer audacity to say that because the child might not have a good life, it should be denied the right to life. Should we abort any pregnancies that occur below the breadline? Should we fuck. It's an absolute disgrace that in a civilised society, we have a legal industry based in denying life. I was studying for my A levels when i discovered i was pregnant at 18, living in student accomodation with a part time job. I had our first daughter in the following May and in the September went back to college and finished them and went onto further education when she was 4 months old....she's 14 now. God gave us free will, i abused it...it was never even a 5 second consideration that i had the choice to abort...i'm Catholic...i wouldn't change a thing!!!
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Post by followyoudown on Jun 29, 2010 16:44:11 GMT
Isn't it a bit strange that the Catholic church puts so much effort into protecting the lives of unborn children yet once they're born if a priest starts to molest them they appear to not really give a shit.
The next dead pool I'd be putting the Pope in it as he was the chief burier of child abuse evidence for the Vatican and with his links to Nazi germany he's becoming a bit of a liability and Pope isn't the kind of job you can resign from so don't be surprised if there's an accident or sudden illness.
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Post by Ariel Manto on Jun 29, 2010 17:59:36 GMT
Something to do with the fact that you keep banging on about it being murder. It's your opinion based on religious ideology. Cool. I hope it keeps you at peace. Personally, I don't care if your Buddhist, Sikh, Christian or Muslim. It's irrelevant. It's a statement of fact that the Vatican has been defending child abuse for centuries. If you don't like abortion, then don't have sex with your girlfriend until you get married either. Double standards, again? ;D Not really, I'll just use contraception. I don't think that anyone here (with any sense of fairness) is trying to slate you for agreeing with aspects of the Catholic faith. Far from it. I have always thought that religion is a good thing if it allows people a focus to live a better life. It's a really good mechanism for living. The problems always start when people forget that "The Kingdom of God is Within Everyone" - it is not for me to tell you that what you believe is wrong, it's for your own conscience. So, to be fair Rhodesey, can you see how even though I wouldn't dream of telling you that certain aspects of your faith may upset me (they probably wouldn't, but for arguments sake let's say they did). I just wouldn't believe it nor act that way myself and I would follow my own path. This is not about religious belief, it's about child abuse. No-one blames Catholics for what has happened - that's illogical and unfair. But the institution of the Catholic Church has covered it up, and for that The Vatican must answer, in the same way that if it were an Anglican, Methodist or Presbyterian Institution we would be saying the very same thing and rightly so. All wind ups aside, this is not about the Catholic Faith nor those that adhere to it. It helps millions and is an entirely honourable mode of thought. It's the institution that's the problem.
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Post by mermaidsal on Jun 29, 2010 18:03:46 GMT
An awful lot of blokes here telling women how to conduct our own bodies and fertility....
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Post by stokie25 on Jun 29, 2010 18:06:06 GMT
Try having a stubborn coil removed or giving birth to 2 kids then have a comment I'm with Sal
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Post by salopstick on Jun 29, 2010 18:12:10 GMT
it is a womens choice to abort
i can understand the catholic churchs stance on contraception however the rest of the religions allow it
i see abortion as a form of contraception, if the women doesnt want the baby in the legal timline she should have the right to get rid
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Post by rhodesy on Jun 29, 2010 18:16:32 GMT
Not really, I'll just use contraception. I don't think that anyone here (with any sense of fairness) is trying to slate you for agreeing with aspects of the Catholic faith. Far from it. I have always thought that religion is a good thing if it allows people a focus to live a better life. It's a really good mechanism for living. The problems always start when people forget that "The Kingdom of God is Within Everyone" - it is not for me to tell you that what you believe is wrong, it's for your own conscience. So, to be fair Rhodesey, can you see how even though I wouldn't dream of telling you that certain aspects of your faith may upset me (they probably wouldn't, but for arguments sake let's say they did). I just wouldn't believe it nor act that way myself and I would follow my own path. This is not about religious belief, it's about child abuse. No-one blames Catholics for what has happened - that's illogical and unfair. But the institution of the Catholic Church has covered it up, and for that The Vatican must answer, in the same way that if it were an Anglican, Methodist or Presbyterian Institution we would be saying the very same thing and rightly so. All wind ups aside, this is not about the Catholic Faith nor those that adhere to it. It helps millions a billion and is an entirely honourable mode of thought. It's the institution that's the problem. Thing is though Jay if you slated some of my religion how do you know I agree with it?
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Post by rhodesy on Jun 29, 2010 18:20:05 GMT
An awful lot of blokes here telling women how to conduct our own bodies and fertility.... Would you murder your kids Sal? It's the same thing, just because a foetus isn't fully developed yet it's still a child with a human soul and a right to life. The sanctity of life is abused when a child is aborted. It's highly disrespectful to God in my opinion, acting as God and deciding who has the right to life.
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Post by Yorkshirepotter on Jun 29, 2010 18:21:23 GMT
This old chestnut again, I don't buy it. Yes it is a tragedy, but two wrongs don't make a right, and even though it's an horrific set of circumstances, I don't see it as a justification for murder. If the young woman aged 16-19 is going to have sex, she should be prepared to accept the consequences. I don't see how people can have the sheer audacity to say that because the child might not have a good life, it should be denied the right to life. Should we abort any pregnancies that occur below the breadline? Should we fuck. It's an absolute disgrace that in a civilised society, we have a legal industry based in denying life. What i find more disgracefull is your attitude towards womens rights. So a woman has to suffer the worst possable expieriance and then they should be forced to carry a rapists child for 9 months, go through the pain of child birth and see the baby that was forced upon them. Then in 15 or 20 years the kid finds out that they were adopted and goes looking for answers to find they were the result of a rape. How much is that going to fuck with a kids head? ADFaye25, im not for one second saying that young mothers cant be good parents and if, like you they choose to have the baby under those circumstances and make things work then thats great. I agree that is the ideal outcome but not all people are able to do that and i believe they have the right to make the decision to stop the pregnancy early on for the benefit of both. Woman who choose to have an abortion dont do it lightley. The church would probebley have us all belive women who choose that route are all slappers who do it every month but that just isnt the case. Its a heart breaking decision but in the end the only person who has the right to make the choise is the woman herself, nobody else has the right to say anything.
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Post by salopstick on Jun 29, 2010 18:23:58 GMT
the way the catholic church treated unmarried mothers in the past says a lot about their views on abortion
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Post by Yorkshirepotter on Jun 29, 2010 18:26:04 GMT
An awful lot of blokes here telling women how to conduct our own bodies and fertility.... Would you murder your kids Sal? It's the same thing, just because a foetus isn't fully developed yet it's still a child with a human soul and a right to life. The sanctity of life is abused when a child is aborted. It's highly disrespectful to God in my opinion, acting as God and deciding who has the right to life. If you knew your next door neighbour was sexually abusing kids for decades would you hush it up and slate the police when they come to investigate? The leaders of the catholic church o.
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Post by mermaidsal on Jun 29, 2010 18:26:22 GMT
An awful lot of blokes here telling women how to conduct our own bodies and fertility.... Would you murder your kids Sal? It's the same thing, just because a foetus isn't fully developed yet it's still a child with a human soul and a right to life. The sanctity of life is abused when a child is aborted. It's highly disrespectful to God in my opinion, acting as God and deciding who has the right to life. I can't see the situation happening to me now but if I believed it was the right thing, yes I'd have an early termination if contraception or morning after pill had failed for some reason. But with the emphasis on early as I said above. And of course I wouldn't be delighted about it, abortions mess with women's bodies and hormones pretty massively. You're welcome to your notion of God but you and the Catholic church have absolutely no right to impose it on the entire female population by making rules for us.
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Post by stokie25 on Jun 29, 2010 18:34:19 GMT
the way the catholic church treated unmarried mothers in the past says a lot about their views on abortion What a pile of steaming horseshit mate! Society did that not the bloody Catholic Church...and i thought i posted a load of bollox...you can have my medal mate on the crap i've read from you on this thread
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Post by salopstick on Jun 29, 2010 18:44:40 GMT
the way the catholic church treated unmarried mothers in the past says a lot about their views on abortion What a pile of steaming horseshit mate! Society did that not the bloody Catholic Church...and i thought i posted a load of bollox...you can have my medal mate on the crap i've read from you on this thread yes society including the protestants had their part but the catholics were very big into this especially in ireland, magdelane laundaries ithink they were called. and yes their were similar protestant ones but they became a massive institution in ireland run by nuns and the last time i checked they were catholics considering this is a debate on catholics, abortion and contraception i think iam fair to say that the catholic church did not treat unmarried mothers very well have your fucking medal back
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Post by rhodesy on Jun 29, 2010 19:07:42 GMT
Would you murder your kids Sal? It's the same thing, just because a foetus isn't fully developed yet it's still a child with a human soul and a right to life. The sanctity of life is abused when a child is aborted. It's highly disrespectful to God in my opinion, acting as God and deciding who has the right to life. If you knew your next door neighbour was sexually abusing kids for decades would you hush it up and slate the police when they come to investigate? The leaders of the catholic church o. I don't condone it and have made that clear, don't know what you're on about myself!
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Post by stokie25 on Jun 29, 2010 19:19:05 GMT
salop.....from what bloody century are you quoting from? Or indeed, what Country? You can't sensibly ask Catholic posters on this board to comment on attitudes in Ireland or Rome pre 1950 without looking a bit daft We're talking about our personal belief and in my case, a catholic upbringing since 1976...i can't account for the rest of the world since the birth of Christ
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Post by stokie25 on Jun 29, 2010 19:21:25 GMT
And although it pains me immensly to say it Give Rhodesy a break...why the witch hunt because he doesn't agree with you all
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Post by tampon on Jun 29, 2010 19:24:49 GMT
Well, there is an answer to unwanted children other than murder. It's not murder. Abortion is preventing life in the same way that using contraception is preventing life (and a more ridiculous analogy: not getting every woman you see pregnant is preventing life). During embryogenesis in the early stages of pregnancy the embryo looks like a bean, has the same level of consciousness as an orange pip and is pretty indistinguishable from a plant or fish embryo, for me... it's not a life here, it's pesky sex juice. I personally don't think stopping the pregnancy at this stage is much different from wearing a condom with spermicidal lubrication (or throwing your cummy tissue in the bin)... I know for a fact it isn't murder.
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Post by TheGodfather on Jun 29, 2010 19:28:13 GMT
a couple of questions then. If your wife/ mum/ sister / girlfriend / daughter was raped and became pregnant because of this rape, is it wrong to have an abortion? If a young woman, 16 - 19 became pregnant despite using contraception, is she wrong to have an abortion as she knows she is not ready to look after a child and cannot provide for a child properley or give it a good life? exactly what I meant ,but never said and God help the twat who did.
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Post by salopstick on Jun 29, 2010 19:42:15 GMT
these institutions were in all parts of the uk and ireland
considering the last Magdalen Laundry in ireland closed in the late 90s it is quite relevant. i am not asking you to comment i am just stating an opinion and opinion that still stands that the catholic church's attitude to single mothers in the past has not been good.
if we had a debate on societies treatment of single mothers or other religions i would probably have the same opinion
young girls are always going to have sex, the catholic church prohibits their use of contraception, abortion and in the past would make them social outcasts that is fact.
i just think that an organisation that preaches this way of life is so condemning of individuals that get into trouble because of it.
in my opinion an organisation that prevents contraception is basically saying that sex is just for reproduction and not for enjoyment and we all know that not to be the case
well i do anyway
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Post by wigginbird on Jun 29, 2010 20:22:01 GMT
my only further comment on this, is that i find the views of Rhodsey so wrong and offensive I've deleted him off my facebook. I know it won't bother him or change his views, he's been brainwashed clearly
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