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Post by starkiller on Jun 29, 2010 20:49:12 GMT
According to the Christian story, didn't God rape Mary?
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Post by Beloved Monkfish on Jun 29, 2010 21:09:32 GMT
According to the Christian story, didn't God rape Mary? You do realise that's quite offensive?
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Post by salopstick on Jun 29, 2010 21:11:57 GMT
its quite tame by his standards
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Post by rhodesy on Jun 29, 2010 21:50:01 GMT
Well, there is an answer to unwanted children other than murder. It's not murder. Abortion is preventing life in the same way that using contraception is preventing life (and a more ridiculous analogy: not getting every woman you see pregnant is preventing life). During embryogenesis in the early stages of pregnancy the embryo looks like a bean, has the same level of consciousness as an orange pip and is pretty indistinguishable from a plant or fish embryo, for me... it's not a life here, it's pesky sex juice. I personally don't think stopping the pregnancy at this stage is much different from wearing a condom with spermicidal lubrication (or throwing your cummy tissue in the bin)... I know for a fact it isn't murder. No, abortion is the termination of a human soul. I don't get why you all have a problem with my opinions, because you disagree you decide to slate me, I'm not forcing my opinions on anyone and neither are the catholic church. The catholic church has guidelines for catholics to follow, you clearly aren't all catholics so they aren't rules for you. You lot are forcing your opinions on me far more than I am upon you, I'm just clearly stating my opinion. You all need to get a grip. I suggest you watch a video on what happens in abortion and of an actual abortion taking place and you may change your minds at the horrific act of terminating a poor defenceless human being.
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Post by rhodesy on Jun 29, 2010 21:50:54 GMT
According to the Christian story, didn't God rape Mary? Doesn't offend me, you can have your views, let me have mine.
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Post by rhodesy on Jun 29, 2010 21:55:24 GMT
WARNING VERY GRAPHIC BUT EDUCATIONAL. IF YOU AGREE WITH ABORTION I SUGGEST YOU WATCH THIS AND SEE WHAT YOU ARE ADVOCATING. www.catholic.org/video/?v=13Watch it, abortion is a method of contraception? It disgusts me to be honest and I can't believe that this happens in this day and age when preventative methods are widely available. Honestly I can't believe that anyone could ever support this butchering of an innocent child.
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Post by Ariel Manto on Jun 29, 2010 21:58:07 GMT
I don't think that anyone here (with any sense of fairness) is trying to slate you for agreeing with aspects of the Catholic faith. Far from it. I have always thought that religion is a good thing if it allows people a focus to live a better life. It's a really good mechanism for living. The problems always start when people forget that "The Kingdom of God is Within Everyone" - it is not for me to tell you that what you believe is wrong, it's for your own conscience. So, to be fair Rhodesey, can you see how even though I wouldn't dream of telling you that certain aspects of your faith may upset me (they probably wouldn't, but for arguments sake let's say they did). I just wouldn't believe it nor act that way myself and I would follow my own path. This is not about religious belief, it's about child abuse. No-one blames Catholics for what has happened - that's illogical and unfair. But the institution of the Catholic Church has covered it up, and for that The Vatican must answer, in the same way that if it were an Anglican, Methodist or Presbyterian Institution we would be saying the very same thing and rightly so. All wind ups aside, this is not about the Catholic Faith nor those that adhere to it. It helps millions a billion and is an entirely honourable mode of thought. It's the institution that's the problem. Thing is though Jay if you slated some of my religion how do you know I agree with it? That's my point, Rhodesey. You adhere to your own moral code and let others live by theirs. One has to be very careful, my friend. If you are religious, then you'll know that you are not here to judge others - only God has the power to judge - and if you do castigate others for following a different path then you have to be quite prepared to have stones cast against you for doing so. The Bible is very clear on this. Matthew 7 - Judge not lest ye not be judged.
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Post by One-Two on Jun 29, 2010 22:00:22 GMT
I find "The Sanctity of Life" so arrogant. Why are humans the only living creatures to have souls? Why is a human life so sacred, but the lives of animals are so worthless in comparison? Humans evolved from apes, other apes supposedly have no souls, was there a certain moment in the history of the world when humans became special enough to have a soul? Special enough for our lives to be sacred?
We are just animals with a big brain and curiosity, our lives are no more or less sacred than that of a cow, or a dog.
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Post by rhodesy on Jun 29, 2010 22:00:52 GMT
Would you murder your kids Sal? It's the same thing, just because a foetus isn't fully developed yet it's still a child with a human soul and a right to life. The sanctity of life is abused when a child is aborted. It's highly disrespectful to God in my opinion, acting as God and deciding who has the right to life. I can't see the situation happening to me now but if I believed it was the right thing, yes I'd have an early termination if contraception or morning after pill had failed for some reason. But with the emphasis on early as I said above. And of course I wouldn't be delighted about it, abortions mess with women's bodies and hormones pretty massively. You're welcome to your notion of God but you and the Catholic church have absolutely no right to impose it on the entire female population by making rules for us. I'm sorry Sal, you're great but I just can't believe how selfish that last sentence seems to me, I honestly can't believe it, I'm in shock that my views are so sparse, I've been educated of such matters and I just find it incomprehensible that people could support the killing of a child!
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Post by rhodesy on Jun 29, 2010 22:02:56 GMT
I find "The Sanctity of Life" so arrogant. Why are humans the only living creatures to have souls? Why is a human life so sacred, but the lives of animals are so worthless in comparison? Humans evolved from apes, other apes supposedly have no souls, was there a certain moment in the history of the world when humans became special enough to have a soul? Special enough for our lives to be sacred? We are just animals with a big brain and curiosity, our lives are no more or less sacred than that of a cow, or a dog. 1) We're created in the image of God. 2) We have immortal souls animals only have mortal souls. 3) God gave us supremacy and stewardship over animals, admittedly some abuse this power and authority.
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Post by Ariel Manto on Jun 29, 2010 22:06:08 GMT
I find "The Sanctity of Life" so arrogant. Why are humans the only living creatures to have souls? Why is a human life so sacred, but the lives of animals are so worthless in comparison? Humans evolved from apes, other apes supposedly have no souls, was there a certain moment in the history of the world when humans became special enough to have a soul? Special enough for our lives to be sacred? We are just animals with a big brain and curiosity, our lives are no more or less sacred than that of a cow, or a dog. Well, Buddhists do believe that humans are not the only animals to have living souls. They would particularly agree with your last sentence, I suspect.
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Post by starkiller on Jun 29, 2010 22:06:38 GMT
According to the Christian story, didn't God rape Mary? You do realise that's quite offensive? Not as offensive as buggering kids. Actually, I do realise the Virgin Birth was just another stolen idea from paganism.
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Post by rhodesy on Jun 29, 2010 22:12:40 GMT
I've lost a lot of faith in humanity today.
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Post by Pretty Little Boother on Jun 29, 2010 22:16:43 GMT
I'm not even arguing my point from a Catholic perspective. I can't see how any civilised person with a shred of respect for life at all could fail to be absolutely disgusted at the thought of a metal hook being pushed into the uterus and scraping a human being to death by just mashing it up and scrambling it. It's respulsive.
And how you can't see it as a human being is frankly beyond me. The legal limit is 24 weeks, isn't it? Is it legal after 23 weeks and six days? How about twenty three weeks, six days, twenty three hours and fifty nine minutes?
On the stroke of a clock, does it suddenly stop being an embryonic bean and become human?
You think you have the right to quantify the existence of a human life by saying "No, it's not human yet... Wait for it... 3-2-1, NOW it's human".
As far as I'm concerned as soon as that sperm enters that ovum it is a human being.
A woman has the right to do whatever se damn well pleases with her body but once she is pregnant she hasn't got one fucking single right to fuck with another persons, which is exactly what a foetus is, it is ANOTHER person.
Rhodesy is taking unbelievable flak for having the bollocks to stand up and say what he thinks is right.
I have no idea how this thread got onto abortion but you can bet that even if I wasn't religious at all I'd still feel exactly the same way.
Edit- If I'm coming across as a bit agressive then I apologise. I'm honestly not looking to offend people; but this really is something I feel unbelievably strongly about and one of the few issues that really riles me up. I honestly can't see how people can accept abortion and be in favour of the choice.
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Post by Yorkshirepotter on Jun 29, 2010 22:22:49 GMT
I've lost a lot of faith in humanity today. Same here, but for very different reasons. The more 'god' bullshit i read on here, the more im inclined to agree with the thread title. No it is not the ideal solution, but in some cases it is the only solution.
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Post by Pretty Little Boother on Jun 29, 2010 22:23:16 GMT
I've lost a lot of faith in humanity today. It really makes you think about our so-called "civilised" society, doesn't it?
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Post by Deleted on Jun 29, 2010 22:25:41 GMT
A very hypothetical and highly improbable title thread .......
Not worth getting too excited about ....but those priests...horrid.
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Post by Beloved Monkfish on Jun 29, 2010 22:27:26 GMT
You do realise that's quite offensive? Not as offensive as buggering kids. Actually, I do realise the Virgin Birth was just another stolen idea from paganism. I'm not the one buggering kids. Obviously that's disgusting and anyone who commits such a crime deserves everything they get. But to make an offensive, sly made up comment like you have just done is pathetic. Anyway, you're someone who believes every conspiracy they read on the internet, and just because it's come from David fucking Icke and is against the general consensus it must be true. And this is coming from someone (myself) who occasionally is a but suspicious of the going's on in this world. Stop regurgitating everything you read on conspiracy forums. You'd accuse the likes of me for doing the same from the bible.
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Post by rhodesy on Jun 29, 2010 22:31:14 GMT
Thing is though, completely disregarding religion and whatever it says, the killing of children is never right.
All the fuss about things such as child murder you create? Not one of you are arsed about the poor, innocent and defenceless children being slaughtered every day. Bet none of you have watched the video, it's alright stay in your ignorant state of bliss and continue to advocate the mass murder of children.
People who I thought were rational and moral people have shocked me today, I thought my view would be within the majority rather than the minority, I'm truly shocked.
All I can say that this has made me appreciate my Catholic upbringing a hell of a lot more than I did prior to this.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 29, 2010 22:33:22 GMT
Fairy stories are man made .....It's called Religion.
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Post by Pretty Little Boother on Jun 29, 2010 22:34:50 GMT
It seems as though an appalling number of people would choose their own convenience over their own offspring, doesn't it Rhodesy?
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Post by Beloved Monkfish on Jun 29, 2010 22:35:01 GMT
Fairy stories are man made .....It's called Religion. Mumf, do you ever add anything constructive to a thread ever?
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Post by Deleted on Jun 29, 2010 22:38:01 GMT
Fairy stories are man made .....It's called Religion. Mumf, do you ever add anything constructive to a thread ever? It's the only constructive comment on this thread. The Catholic church will never be banned ....! Utterly ridiculous.
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Post by Pretty Little Boother on Jun 29, 2010 22:38:31 GMT
Fairy stories are man made .....It's called Religion. Mumf, do you ever add anything constructive to a thread ever? No, he doesn't. He's a very poor, attention seeking, wind up merchant who constantly fails miserably in any attempt at humour... Assuming you can work out what the hell he's supposed to be saying in the first place.
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Post by Beloved Monkfish on Jun 29, 2010 22:38:45 GMT
It seems as though an appalling number of people would choose their own convenience over their own offspring, doesn't it Rhodesy? I'm amazed Boother at the amount of people on here who don't see it the way we do. It's almost as if people are pro-abortion just because it's 'hip and cool' to be anti-Catholic.
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Post by jonesinamillion on Jun 29, 2010 22:39:04 GMT
I'm not even arguing my point from a Catholic perspective. I can't see how any civilised person with a shred of respect for life at all could fail to be absolutely disgusted at the thought of a metal hook being pushed into the uterus and scraping a human being to death by just mashing it up and scrambling it. It's respulsive. And how you can't see it as a human being is frankly beyond me. The legal limit is 24 weeks, isn't it? Is it legal after 23 weeks and six days? How about twenty three weeks, six days, twenty three hours and fifty nine minutes? On the stroke of a clock, does it suddenly stop being an embryonic bean and become human? You think you have the right to quantify the existence of a human life by saying "No, it's not human yet... Wait for it... 3-2-1, NOW it's human". As far as I'm concerned as soon as that sperm enters that ovum it is a human being. A woman has the right to do whatever se damn well pleases with her body but once she is pregnant she hasn't got one fucking single right to fuck with another persons, which is exactly what a foetus is, it is ANOTHER person. Rhodesy is taking unbelievable flak for having the bollocks to stand up and say what he thinks is right. I have no idea how this thread got onto abortion but you can bet that even if I wasn't religious at all I'd still feel exactly the same way. Edit- If I'm coming across as a bit agressive then I apologise. I'm honestly not looking to offend people; but this really is something I feel unbelievably strongly about and one of the few issues that really riles me up. I honestly can't see how people can accept abortion and be in favour of the choice. I don't think rhodesy's taking much flack for his views, though neither has he explained his veiws a eloquently (or graphically) as yourself boother. Though I'm no expert on medicine I don't think t's quite as horific as gouging out a live featus - I think the pregnancy is ended relitavley pain free by drugs and then the body is removed by the most practical means available... a big hook! Abortion is not to be used as a form of birth control but you'd have to consider individual circumstances;for example a seriously physical / mentally disabled child hat could look forward to no quality of life. Or rape victims it must be a torcherous ordeal. Or if the mothers life is at risk, especially where she is the parent of other young children. I do however agree that for the lage part 24 weeks is too far gone. When I was in neonatal intensive care there was a baby delivered at 20 weeks, if it was born any earlier they wouldn't have interveined. When i left 6 weeks later it was still alive so to me 24 weeks is too far gone. It's be interesting to know when an embryo becomes a featus and a featus become a living being and what (if anything) it is aware of during these stages.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 29, 2010 22:40:32 GMT
Fuck me me and Ginge had a 40 minute argument on facebook chat about this haha
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Post by Deleted on Jun 29, 2010 22:41:30 GMT
Mumf, do you ever add anything constructive to a thread ever? No, he doesn't. He's a very poor, attention seeking, wind up merchant who constantly fails miserably in any attempt at humour... Assuming you can work out what the hell he's supposed to be saying in the first place. I doubt whether you would have the intelligence to understand what I say anyway.
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Post by rhodesy on Jun 29, 2010 22:43:54 GMT
This brings it home for me to be honest boother. And of course I wouldn't be delighted about it, abortions mess with women's bodies and hormones pretty massively. Sal wouldn't want an abortion because of the way that it will implicate her, personally I'm utterly utterly shocked. And Jones I refer you to the video I posted earlier so you can be aware of the way that foetus' are often aborted.
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Post by One-Two on Jun 29, 2010 22:45:13 GMT
Lets say a foetus is a human being with a soul, being completely innocent, wouldn't they go straight to heaven? Which is surely a good thing? They avoid a world of sin, and spend eternity in bliss.
That is a genuine question by the way. I'd also like to point out I don't agree with abortion barring any extreme circumstances, so I'm definitely not arguing abortion is a good thing.
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