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Post by greyman on Nov 8, 2018 10:39:52 GMT
Gary Rowett prepared to stand behind James McClean ‘as a footballer and member of our squad’Stoke City boss says he can’t condone some of what James McClean has posted on social media That statement is full of double standards, no mention of the game changing comments evoking the IRA (why wont anyone acknowledge that?) and it just comes across that he blames the fans far more than he blames McClean for this situation. This is the problem now. McClean was always going to be targeted by a minority idiots. But he's the one who dragged the full sectarian issue to the fore for a much larger number of people. But the media narrative hasn't changed. They're still pushing the idea that it's just a bunch of bigots targeting him for not wearing a poppy, rather than the truth which is that McClean is just as bad as they are. Rowett and the club have no way out of this one that isn't a problem. They can drop him which looks like they are bending to the boo boys. Or they play him, which causes a problem for a larger number of supporters, including those who have always backed him. It is a quite unbelievable mess. There is a solution which is that McClean applies the same standards he has about the Parachute Regiment to the IRA. That would sort it for me at least, but I just can't see it.
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Post by greyman on Nov 8, 2018 9:04:05 GMT
After 33 pages of comment it seems that there are three issues which are predictably getting jumbled up
1. The wearing of Poppies
2. The behaviour of James Mclean and
3. The behaviour of a minority of Stoke fans both in relation to McClean and sectarian chanting historically
I have said what I think about 1 and 2 and have nothing else to say. But I do have a last comment about 3.
There is some debate about whether the singing of Fuck the Pope and the IRA is sectarian, I and others have heard it many times others are denying it. But it is noticeable that we have had a least one respondent say he doesn't think its sectarian and sings songs about flutes because its a cheerful little ditty. We also have a whopper from East Belfast boasting that he is coming across to belt out his favourite song book quite soon- so make your own mind up a) If its been sung and b) is it sectarian.
The point I want to focus on is the idea highlighted by a number of contributors that singing monotonously "Fuck the IRA" does not have sectarian connotations _ it does and I would like to point out the logic behind this.
If you look at the Troubles wiki page it will detail who died in the period 1969-97 by category and which groups were responsible. Republicans were responsible for 58.2% of the 3,532 deaths in the Troubles. Therefore 41.7% were killed by Loyalists and British forces ( 5 were killed by Irish forces). However 1,252 civilian's were killed by Protestant Paramilitaries and British forces and 723 by Republicans- a terrible toll in a disgusting war. In 2012 PM David Cameron apologised for "collusion" between British forces and Loyalist paramilitaries in the assassination of Catholics - now some of those may have been "suspected terrorists" but others were solicitors and politicians. Many of these deaths were supported by bigots by using the concept of "fucking the IRA" (and Fenians)
So when people sing "fuck the IRA" and don't follow it up with "Fuck the UVF" then I am afraid a sectarian stance is being taken given the religious profile of the dead on both sides. All the dead should be mourned, The Good Friday Agreement is 20 years old and peace must be cherished in Ireland....The club has to take a stance on this...other wise we will be getting more visitors from Belfast and Glasgow before we know it and our club will sink to the bottom of a dark pit I think you're crediting the people who sing it with too much knowledge. My guess is they're too thick to realise what it's all about. I'd also guess many of those booing McClean weren't even wearing poppies themselves. So in some ways I think they're as sectarian as a chimp throwing shit at a tricolour. Even so, it has now become sectarian because of both them and McClean himself.
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Post by greyman on Nov 7, 2018 22:38:20 GMT
Yes but any clown with an iota of cop on would know how Sands and the IRA are perceived in the UK. To quote him on Remembrance Day was just inflaming an already divisive issue. At best he’s just thick as shit but more likely he’s giving the two fingers all round. Sands here is perceived much as the British Army is perceived in Derry. Exactly. Maybe McClean should ponder what would happen to an Englishman turning out for Derry City over Easter weekend wearing a Para beret. Although he's probably too thick to see exactly why that shows he shouldn't be quoting IRA members.
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Post by greyman on Nov 7, 2018 14:28:15 GMT
I have been to Glasgow the last two days. Mclean is a hot topic up there but every Celtic fan I spoke to doesnt want him They say that they have their views but are not all Republicans and an idiot like him would set them back years. The not wearing a poppy thing seems more important to them than us and slagging off his clubs fans a cardinal sin It would appear he is toxic and we are stuck with him! Under 23s it is then until he resigns! I wouldn't even do that. The club need to come to some arrangement so he can move on, while they publicly support his rights and condemn the people booing him. I don't think they can just expect this one to die away, except perhaps in the event he starts ripping up trees as a player.
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Post by greyman on Nov 7, 2018 13:00:54 GMT
How has he glorified the IRA? We brought the IRA into it by singing the songs? What did he do other than quote Bobby Sands about being a proud Irish man? He had a picture of himself with Martin McGuinness, erstwhile Officer Commanding of the North Belfast IRA from when Mountbatten was blown to pieces, with a very enthusiastic caption about reigniting the flames of republicanism. To be fair to McClean, that's something different. He's perfectly entitled to be a republican. I'd have to hold my nose if I met McGuinness, but he did help to achieve peace.
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Post by greyman on Nov 7, 2018 12:41:59 GMT
Still no response from the club... Everybody involved has put them into an impossible situation. And by everybody I mean the pinheads booing him and McClean himself.
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Post by greyman on Nov 7, 2018 12:18:07 GMT
greyman Stoke City Legend ****** What he can't do then is glorify an organisation responsible for Warrington, Omagh, Enniskillen, the M62 bombing and all the rest, while moaning about the exact same behaviour from the other side. A tad Northern in your focus so for balance let me mention some IRA mass casualty attacks in the South: Balcombe Street, Guilford, Shepherd's bush (fourteen year old maimed and blinded), Brighton (blowing up the the Conservative Party conference) and Deal (bombing of non-combatant musicians). And yet at least one Stoke fan is quoted asking the club "What are they doing to kick 'The No surrender to the IRA' idiots into touch'. "WOULD THEY TOLERATE IF IT WAS AGAINST ANY OTHER MINORITY GROUP" He says. The IRA an oppressed minority group. Jesus wept! How has he glorified the IRA? We brought the IRA into it by singing the songs? What did he do other than quote Bobby Sands about being a proud Irish man? I never sang any songs and nor would I. That's true for most people. See my earlier post - he can't defend himself against no-nothing idiots singing songs about a struggle they're not part of by quoting IRA members. Instead of focusing attention on the people responsible, he's dragged the IRA into this issue and alienated people like me who have supported his stance. He can now fuck off and the sooner the better.
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Post by greyman on Nov 7, 2018 11:47:56 GMT
greyman Stoke City Legend ****** What he can't do then is glorify an organisation responsible for Warrington, Omagh, Enniskillen, the M62 bombing and all the rest, while moaning about the exact same behaviour from the other side. A tad Northern in your focus so for balance let me mention some IRA mass casualty attacks in the South: Balcombe Street, Guilford, Shepherd's bush (fourteen year old maimed and blinded), Brighton (blowing up the the Conservative Party conference) and Deal (bombing of non-combatant musicians). And yet at least one Stoke fan is quoted asking the club "What are they doing to kick 'The No surrender to the IRA' idiots into touch'. "WOULD THEY TOLERATE IF IT WAS AGAINST ANY OTHER MINORITY GROUP" He says. The IRA an oppressed minority group. Jesus wept! I was living in Aldershot the day the IRA blew up a bunch of cleaners and a Roman Catholic chaplain in 1972. I was also in Warrington on the day of the bombing there. Murdering children, the elderly, pregnant women and other innocents was their speciality. Also remarkable how often they would phone in 'warnings' to save civilians but then make terrible 'mistakes' that would see the emergency services take action in the wrong towns or see people evacuated from the site warned about directly into the place the bomb was actually located. In the case of Warrington, this meant phoning a warning to Merseyside police so the authorities focused on Liverpool. Instead there were two bombs in Warrington, placed in cast iron bins to ensure as much shrapnel as possible. The timers on the bombs were set to ensure that the people fleeing the first explosion would get caught by the second. There are similar stories in dozens of other cases. Perhaps Omagh was the worst of all. McClean has every right to object to the actions of the Army in his own town and I've backed him on that. But now he's expressed support for the organisation responsible for this, the sooner he's out of my club, the better.
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Post by greyman on Nov 7, 2018 9:59:09 GMT
The poppy commemorates those that fell in battle like my grandfather WW2 Artillery Dover Costal defence. The Paras didn't lose any soldiers on 30th January 1972 so what he and you say is false. If you want to see what the poppy represents in Northern Ireland then simply enter the following term 8nto google then click on images. UDA UVF Memorial It’s also worth pointing out that funds from the poppy appeal went towards supporting and defending the soldiers involved in the Bloody Sunday enquiries. That doesn’t sit well with Irish people in general and Northern Irish nationalists in particular. This is where this sectarian crap takes us. I fully understand and support McClean's wish not to wear the poppy. But he's dragged the IRA into it now and that means the whole thing descends into whataboutery. So he can not wear the poppy because of Bloody Sunday and other events. That's fine. What he can't do then is glorify an organisation responsible for Warrington, Omagh, Enniskillen, the M62 bombing and all the rest, while moaning about the exact same behaviour from the other side. I would say he's no better than the idiots who boo him, but the fact is he's worse. They probably have little or no idea what they're on about. But McClean does.
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Post by greyman on Nov 6, 2018 16:35:33 GMT
Are you deaf or just being deliberately obtuse? I think it’s more likely people do not understand what they are singing...🙈 I can guarantee it given that many of them wouldn't have been born at the time of the Good Friday agreement. I also wonder how many of them were wearing poppies themselves at the weekend. They shouldn't be allowed to think they're off the hook for being nasty and ignorant morons just because James McClean keeps digging his hole deeper.
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Post by greyman on Nov 6, 2018 13:45:58 GMT
As long as he did this quietly, not sure what the problem is. He did what a lot of fans did who arrived during the min silence ,he walked to the dug out in silence but some people just want to make out he was doing cartwheels and waving a IRA flag . Also I wouldn't be happy if fans where calling me a terrorist ,also how many people have no issues with that knob Corbyn getting all pally and close with terrorist's supporters also how many people supported Mandella who I agree was a great man but had terrorist links, if we want we can find something to beat anyone with ,he thanks the stoke fans for supporting him, he dropped a clanger with his quote the day after ,though I agree with the caveman quote. Maclean dropped a bollock by doing what he did because he just gave the fans who just want to give him grief more ammo to do this. Also someone said they heard no singing quoting fuck the IRA etc ,are you deaf ? Mclean should have just ignored it because I am sure he is well used to it . Matic apparently did it the right way by saying nowt , Mclean said nowt until he was given shitload of abuse ,had a flag waved at him and things thrown at him .but again its just an excuse to give him more grief . If he plays this weekend then has a stoke player he will get my support even if he is not playing to well at the min (I think Ince is worse ),I really don't give a shit what he does after he takes his top off . I've supported his stance up till now, but he's crossed a line. Just as he doesn't have to support Remembrance Day because of the actions of the British Army, I don't have to support him for his association with the murderous thugs of the IRA. He can't have it both ways. I hope he never pulls on a Stoke shirt again. If he does, I won't boo him, but he's done as far as I'm concerned.
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Post by greyman on Nov 6, 2018 11:35:02 GMT
Just seen the SCFC statement.....they are clearly following correct HR guidance.....there will be s fact find and probable disciplinary meeting with the player. Then a decision as to the outcome having heard his side of the story. There seems grounds for misconduct or gross misconduct but there will be mitigation in how he presents how he has been wronged. My guess at the outcome will be a written warning and a fine? Yes but he'll never be allowed to play for this club again. When he came on I wanted him to score the winner and shut the boos down. I've supported completely his right not to wear the poppy. But expressing his support for the IRA? He's done for me. He's no better than the idiots that sing their sectarian bullshit
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Post by greyman on Nov 6, 2018 6:41:47 GMT
Leaving abusive phone messages for Ryan Shawcross. Cheering on his players to feign injury to get Stoke players sent off. Squaring up to Bojan. Leaking stories to the press about Berahino after his transfer. Hes an utter cunt. Did a good job and I'm glad he did, but now he's just another manager. I wouldn't boo him, or applaud him. In order: We don't know exactly how that phone call played out do we? Sparky claims Pulis called Ryan a loser. Pulis claimed he phoned and said "Ryan, you've never been like that, you can still be a loser while being a winner". Both sound a little contrived tbh. Don't forget Ryan was also being loyal to Sparky at that time. Oh come off it. You telling me our players are whiter than white? Never dive? Never cheat? Behave yourself mate. Pulis like most managers will use every shit house tactic in the book to win a match. We were dumb enough to repeatedly fall for his tricks. Not sure he really squared up to Bojan. Sounds like words were exchanged as opposed to anything else. The only one that I actually agree was a really nasty thing to do. However Bera didn't act brilliantly at West Brom. I suspect Tony was just taking one last opportunity to stick a knife deep in. It was a cunt move but meh, Bera was daft to get a drugs ban. Neither are innocent mate. As for calling him a cunt? He's still our second most successful manager on paper mate. Remember to tell your kids that our second most successful manager is a cunt. I already have. And he is.
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Post by greyman on Nov 4, 2018 18:58:18 GMT
Got rid of the clowns who had all but relegated us to the third tier of English football Gave the club back it's pride and lead us to the prem Achieved a lot of good things on and off the pitch ( Donna Louise) But the story about recommending charlie Adam find a new club after his dad's suicide. Oh dear, not good. Best to remember the good he did Leaving abusive phone messages for Ryan Shawcross. Cheering on his players to feign injury to get Stoke players sent off. Squaring up to Bojan. Leaking stories to the press about Berahino after his transfer. Hes an utter cunt. Did a good job and I'm glad he did, but now he's just another manager. I wouldn't boo him, or applaud him.
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Post by greyman on Nov 3, 2018 20:46:13 GMT
We've got a rival now haven't we. Gary really is his baby. Sadly we have Afobe, the idle, useless fucking shit! To be fair, the real problem isn't his ability to get results. It's that he's a cunt. And you know it as well as I do.
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Post by greyman on Oct 21, 2018 11:37:40 GMT
If the history of football teaches us anything, it's that changing managers every few weeks is a great idea. Give them a two year contract, tell them that they'll be judged on half a dozen results, then sack them. That's always worked.
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Post by greyman on Oct 16, 2018 15:33:46 GMT
Son of a whore. Same roots as puttanesca - whore's pasta. I prefer 'Devil's Dumplings' GD
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Post by greyman on Oct 16, 2018 15:29:43 GMT
. . . . which, translated literally, means 'f*** off sons of a b****'. Now he’s alleged to have spoken those words to a BT camera after his team came back from two goals down to beat Newcastle recently. In their infinite wisdom the FA employed a lip reader and translator to find out what he said and have now charged him with using offensive language. My question is, isn’t there more important things to worry about or is Mourinho about to get everything he deserves? Son of a whore. Same roots as puttanesca - whore's pasta.
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Post by greyman on Oct 16, 2018 15:25:42 GMT
Everything you need to know about Stoke and Port Vale:
Slash:
Arnold Bennett:
"There were two "great" football clubs in the Five Towns - Knype, one of the oldest clubs in England, and Bursley. Now, whereas the Knype Club was struggling along fairly well, the Bursley had come to the end of its resources. The great football public had practically deserted it. The explanation, of course, was that Bursley had been losing too many matches."
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Post by greyman on Oct 13, 2018 6:21:18 GMT
I'd run the course. I'm a professional writer and Fellow of the RSA. Lesson one - why cunt is the mot juste for describing a cunt. Professional writer, fellow of the RSA, whoopee. I take it your mentors and peers would approve of you using gutter language to reflect your personal opinions on a social media platform. Academic qualifications are are meaningless when judging “life skills and experience” I hope you are not a supposed role model for children, your own or those of other parents. At that I’ll sign off by wishing you a good night. I'm capable of far worse. It's all about context my friend. This is a football club's messageboard. It's not social media and it's not my front room or a kindergarten. As I said before, no other word will do quite as well to get across my opinion. Twat might work at a push. Arsehole isn't quite right. Bastard would work for some aspects of his behaviour. He's not thick or bad at his job, so knobhead or fucker won't do. So cunt it is. www.sciencealert.com/swearing-is-a-sign-of-more-intelligence-not-less-say-scientists
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Post by greyman on Oct 12, 2018 17:56:09 GMT
This wankstain reunion is ever so beautiful. They still come back for a walloping even though their cunt made absolute cunts of them for a decade. Daft cunts. B)
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Post by greyman on Oct 12, 2018 17:15:06 GMT
Not that I fully agree with your comment on Pulis, everyone to their own. But your description is much better than using the dispicable term c**t. Perhaps yourself and others could run a Latin or English course on the Oatie for some who prefer or know no better than gutter language Out of interest, how would 'a course' change anything for those of us who prefer to use the 'dispicable' term? I'd run the course. I'm a professional writer and Fellow of the RSA. Lesson one - why cunt is the mot juste for describing a cunt.
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Post by greyman on Oct 12, 2018 15:58:15 GMT
I thought you were going to do it then but you couldn't bring yourself to do it. The answer is yes by the way. Read the court transcript. In answer to your question, I think he almost certainly was based on what we know. In answer to your next question, I've already answered it. See above. When you refer to the court transcript could you just clarify do you the mean the one where the judge called him a liar over the payments he was trying to extort claiming from Gillingham or the one where the judge called him a liar over the payments he dishonestly received from Crystal Palace Take your pick.
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Post by greyman on Oct 12, 2018 15:54:30 GMT
Look. You've failed and are now resorting to putting words in my mouth. Maybe next time, try another way. wiki.c2.com/?FallaciousArgumentThere's also a really good book called The Art of Being Right by Arthur Schopenhauer which offers all sorts of tips about this sort of thing. Or maybe try being honest and admitting that Pulis is a cunt. Once you've said it, all that cognitive dissonance will just slip away. Now do one All are entitled to an opinion, that’s what debate is abouthowever; Isn’t social media great. Anyone can describe someone as a c***t and a crook without fear of retribution. By the way using the term c***t in any conversation/argument is probably the most dispicable word that can be used. I've got worse than that, I can assure you. I can also make comments without fear of retribution: a) Because calling somebody a cunt is an opinion so is just fair comment and not libellous or slanderous. b) Because calling a crook a crook is just stating a fact. He could sue me for that if it wasn't true.
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Post by greyman on Oct 12, 2018 11:11:20 GMT
I'm pretty sure I just said I would cut Pulis exactly the same slack I did Peter Coates over one episode. Now I'm going to cut you some because I know you don't have an argument which is why you've had to make one up. So you don't hate him for Preston but you do hate him for Preston and Paul Scally and you don't hate Hughes for Chelsea at all! All seems very consistent! Look. You've failed and are now resorting to putting words in my mouth. Maybe next time, try another way. wiki.c2.com/?FallaciousArgumentThere's also a really good book called The Art of Being Right by Arthur Schopenhauer which offers all sorts of tips about this sort of thing. Or maybe try being honest and admitting that Pulis is a cunt. Once you've said it, all that cognitive dissonance will just slip away. Now do one
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Post by greyman on Oct 12, 2018 9:54:52 GMT
Yes it is illogical shit, isn't it. Which is why I said it, to show you what it's like. I could keep answering but if you don't like the answer, it's pointless isn't it? So this really is the last time. I don't pay to watch boardroom spats. And there are a lot more reasons to think Pulis is a nasty piece of work than some plan to move on a regime that had lost interest in the club. If that's all Pulis had ever done, I'd be giving him the same amount of stick I give to Peter Coates - not very much at all. OK, so you're being a hypocrite. Cheers. I'm pretty sure I just said I would cut Pulis exactly the same slack I did Peter Coates over one episode. Now I'm going to cut you some because I know you don't have an argument which is why you've had to make one up.
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Post by greyman on Oct 12, 2018 8:19:49 GMT
Yes it is illogical shit, isn't it. Which is why I said it, to show you what it's like.
I could keep answering but if you don't like the answer, it's pointless isn't it?
So this really is the last time. I don't pay to watch boardroom spats. And there are a lot more reasons to think Pulis is a nasty piece of work than some plan to move on a regime that had lost interest in the club. If that's all Pulis had ever done, I'd be giving him the same amount of stick I give to Peter Coates - not very much at all.
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Post by greyman on Oct 12, 2018 7:37:28 GMT
I thought you were going to do it then but you couldn't bring yourself to do it. The answer is yes by the way. Read the court transcript. In answer to your question, I think he almost certainly was based on what we know. In answer to your next question, I've already answered it. See above. Do you hate Coates then for the torture of that Boxing Day game that left you with PTSD? Bit weird to let one off isn't it? As I've just told you, I've already answered that one. And you've just performed a reductio ad absurdum to go with all the other stuff. Let me have a go at your way of arguing. If you think what you do about Pulis, what do you make of Horace Austerberry? You can't have one without the other. And if you think that's ridiculous, then you're a hypocrite. That's how this works isn't it?
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Post by greyman on Oct 12, 2018 7:01:16 GMT
Let's ignore all of this and ask a yes or no question. Is Tony Pulis a crook? No need to mention anybody else, call names or say 'look at that squirrel on Mrs Thompson's roof' or any of the usual stuff. Go on. Yes or no. I don't think he's got a criminal record has he? Now your turn and let's get back to your original accisation. Was Coates "In on it" in 2004? Yes or no? I thought you were going to do it then but you couldn't bring yourself to do it. The answer is yes by the way. Read the court transcript. In answer to your question, I think he almost certainly was based on what we know. In answer to your next question, I've already answered it. See above.
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Post by greyman on Oct 12, 2018 6:17:34 GMT
I feel sorry for you Greyman. It must have torn you apart watching us doing so well with a man you despise for many years. Maybe one day we’ll achieve what we achieved with someone that you can tolerate. I really hope so Nope. He did a very good job for us as he has at other clubs. I just think he's a cunt and a crook.
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