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Post by bunnyscfc on Apr 14, 2009 19:01:47 GMT
Another 'War and Peace' offering I'm sorry to say!!!!
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Jim,
Many thanks for getting back to me. I hope my email didn’t come across with any bitterness as it was intended to be as constructive as possible. I still feel though that you aren’t quite getting the gist of where I (and many, many other Stokies) are coming from.
You will know by now that, like many Stokies, I’ll say a thousand words when a dozen would probably do, so apologies!
Thirty five or so years ago I was a football-mad kid. My school holidays would see my dad go to work at 8am in the morning and drop me and my older brother off at the Victoria Gound – the days when we didn’t have to wrap kids in cotton wool and they could be left alone.
We’d happily spend hour after hour watching our heroes train, and then at lunchtime the old man would return and we’d have lunch in the same social club as the players. Indeed, you would actually be sat with the players. Great days.
During this period I can readily recall an away match at Anfield. Whilst father and elder brother toddled off to watch Stoke lose a thriller 5-3, I sat for two hours with my mum in a car parked up in a terraced Liverpool street. It wasn’t boring (or child cruelty!) as he did get me a programme to scour before the game!
When the pair returned to the car I asked the score. I knew that Stoke had lost, as the beaming Scousers walking past our car at 5pm told me who the winners were.
“What was the score, dad?”, I asked rather too eagerly.
With a frown etched across his face he stumbled, “5-3 son, 5-3 we lost”. He was gutted. My brother was gutted.
In the papers the following day, The Potters display was heralded as one of the very best and bravest seen at Anfield in aeons. A team had actually gone to Anfield and had a go, a real go.
It mattered not a jot to the old man – we had lost. Yes, there had been pride in defeat, but we had lost in style. I remember how blinkin’ miserable my dad was until his striped heroes had a chance to put that right, the following Saturday.
You see Jim, your team chooses you, not the other way around and we go to matches to watch our team win and escape the pressures and stresses life brings us. Indeed, I would say that I enjoy football more between the hours of 1-3pm than 3-5pm, because football is so much more than the game.
A question: Wouldn’t it be fantastic if we all chose to follow United or Arsenal, for and away the most stylish footballing teams around at the moment?
Er, no it wouldn’t.
I’m lucky enough, and old enough, to have seen Greenhoff, Hudson, Hurst etc in their prime. And those players were lucky enough to have a back four of Pejic, Smith, Bloor and Marsh behind them. For football isn’t simply about which is the better or more stylish team. Thankfully.
Cut back to 2009, and I spent £350 to watch my team at home this season. I have a pig of an uphill and down dale mile-long walk to and from the coldest ground in the UK for my troubles. I’m sure some WBA fans have similar walks every other Saturday. Which set of supporters do you feel have gained more value for their hard-earned this season? Which set of fans has been entertained the most?
Of course, winning in sport is not everything.
As Head of PE at a secondary school I always tell my teams three things before EVERY game:
- give everything you have got - enjoy the game - and you win, lose or draw with standards. The very best standards.
The final point is what my personal sporting ethos is all about. That’s why my teams get invited back to tournaments year after year and some schools don’t. But I tell you what Jim, on those coach journeys back to school at 6pm I look around and see beaming faces when my team has won. I hear songs being sung and laughter. When we lose, we lose with standards and grace, but that bus journey seems to be a bit longer. Like the kids’ faces.
But professional sport is about winning if you follow a team. It’s also about losing, too. But no matter what the score or entertainment, you’re back there a week later. It’s about following and supporting them through thick and thin. Entertainment? Which of the questions do you think my beautiful 9 year old daughter asks when I return from a Stoke game:
What was the score? Did we play well?
That’s right, exactly the same question I asked of my dad over three decades ago. My daughter has always known how to rile me. “Dad, Chelsea/Man U/Arsenal etc are so much better than Stoke, aren’t they? I think I’ll support them!”.
“Course you can sweetheart”, I answer, “I’ll find you some foster parents in Manchester or London and we’ll visit you every birthday”. Her face soon changes - until I break into a knowing smile. She does have a choice of who to support though – Stoke City or Port Vale – her local teams.
Because supporting your local team, not matter how poor or lacking in entertainment they are, is one of life’s utter joys. Pride, passion, belief and belonging – essential for a great life and essential for the football team you support. Entertainment? Standing soaked to the bone on an open terrace at Cambridge in 1992 and watching your team concede in the last minute and then getting home at 1am – that wasn’t entertaining Jim, it was character building and life-affirming. Wouldn’t have missed it for the world.
Your sentence regarding Stoke’s repeated appealing for/against decisions baffled me to be honest. Every single team in the country does it, indeed Newcastle managed to get almost all their team around the referee at various parts of Saturday’s game, something Stoke aren’t particularly good at.
I then watched Villa v Everton on the telly the next day, a very good game and I’m sure that entertained many people, but both teams contested almost every decision. Singling us out isn’t right. Neither is contesting decisions – something else I drill into my kids not to do – but it goes on in every standard of the game. Shame, but not simply Stoke’s problem, although I would love for us to be part of the answer.
We’ll have to agree to disagree on entertainment.
I would hazard a guess that out of our 18000 season ticket holders, around 17,996 of them go to watch Stoke with the sole purpose of watching a Stoke win. The other 4 are probably liars! There is zero entertainment for any fan watching his own team lose.
Your comparison with Fulham is rather futile until we spend as much time and money as they have in the Greed League. You mention our ‘long term health’ and yet you’ve given us less than 8 months to become like Hodgson’s admirable team. If we are still playing as we are at present in a few years time then that’s a valid point. In the meantime did you expect us to either lie down and let teams hammer us or try to pitter-patter it around like West Brom have?
Also, just why should Stoke entertain neutrals, especially neutrals whom have not even paid to get in – not a personal dig at you Jim, but Tony Pulis answers to his chairman, his team and to us. No-one else. You might not like that, but we wouldn’t like to be relegated either, after taking 23 painful years to get where we are now.
As stated previously, looking at West Brom’s internet messageboards, I don’t see too many enamoured or entertained by watching their team lose on a weekly basis. Indeed, many are advocating Mr Pulis and his team as a blueprint for what they should have done.
And as for their atmosphere, well, I’ve been to Craven Cottage several times. It’s a ground I love, and their fans are as sound as you can find anywhere, but any atmosphere in their lovely ground is generated by away fans. Booing other teams might not be in the Corinthian spirit of sport, but it damn well works for us and keeps us involved fully in games we need to win. Please ask Wayne Bridge for his comments to ex-Saints chum James Beattie after the Stoke v Man City game for confirmation of just what a difference we can make. Or check out our home record.
We have not been worked out yet, which I feel kind of says more about many other clubs’ management than it does of our own. It might not be pretty, mind you neither is James Beatties’ eye after seeing it at close quarters today, but every single Stoke fan wants us in the Premier League next year.
Yes, the Greed League. A league changed and spoiled for me by the money and subsequent media attention given to the cult of making average footballers celebrities and forever in our living rooms.
That comes with a price I suppose, and the price from what I can see is this win-at-all-costs mentality that unfortunately prevails in 2009. Some clubs will be in for a big surprise when it all goes wrong.
I’m sure my grandkids will also be taken down to watch their heroes train and then on a Saturday they’ll go to hopefully watch Stoke win. It’s part of their history and heritage. My two eldest (9 and 5) went own to the training pitches today, and I still can’t get the beams off their faces after having their picture taken with the likes of Faye and Fuller. That’s entertainment, Jim. Local kids getting giddy as anything at meeting the players from their local club. Aren’t you a Charlton fan? If so, this should surely touch a nerve with someone who supports such a fantastic community-based club?
I’m also sure that your articles will also continue to be excellent reading every Sunday.
Y’see, that’s when I want entertaining, because reading newspapers doesn’t really matter that much to me, I just do it for enjoyment in any spare time I have. I go to Stoke City to worship my local football team and that is all the entertainment and style I need on Saturdays.
Yours in sport,
ANTHONY
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Post by You want salad on kebab boss? on Apr 14, 2009 19:03:52 GMT
Too long !
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Post by StatesideStokie on Apr 14, 2009 19:12:02 GMT
Is it fuck too long, I didn't want it to end. Absolutely fist class mate, it perfectly sums up everything that these fucking ignorant knobs that masquerade as football "experts" are missing!
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Post by march4 on Apr 14, 2009 19:13:27 GMT
I think that is a sensible and well considered piece. If he can't understand the feelings of a true football fan after you have explained it so eloquently then he has no right reporting on the beautiful game.
It might be worth sending a copy to the editor. You never know he might sack Holden and give you his job. It will pay an awful lot more money and won't have the hassle of teaching teenagers. It won't have the rewards of seeing the talents of your young charges develop, so you might be better off financially but not spiritually.
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Post by Olgrligm on Apr 14, 2009 19:21:59 GMT
I enjoyed reading that. Very good.
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Post by powchirper on Apr 14, 2009 19:29:41 GMT
Tick,V/G, Gold star,See me at home time for extra home-work.
Seriously you've entertained me tonight with these E-mails and must say how bang to rights you are.
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Post by northstokie on Apr 14, 2009 19:37:05 GMT
it's football Jim, but not as you know it...
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Post by bunnyscfc on Apr 14, 2009 19:37:12 GMT
"See me at home time for extra home-work"
Fnarr, fnarr
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Post by shiny nosehair on Apr 14, 2009 19:37:31 GMT
Nice work
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Post by trebor63 on Apr 14, 2009 19:40:14 GMT
I thought your original e mail was brilliant but that one was even better. To think that he is the pro journo and you are one of the caveman that watch Stoke!
You've pretty much hammered him at his own game. Nice one
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Post by Deleted on Apr 14, 2009 19:41:25 GMT
Brilliant e-mail again, bunny!
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Post by FullerMagic on Apr 14, 2009 19:42:46 GMT
Loved the closing paragraph, Bunny.
Good stuff
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Post by Dingdangdoo on Apr 14, 2009 19:46:43 GMT
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Post by fortressbritannia on Apr 14, 2009 19:49:53 GMT
pain in the arse to read but still a great e-mail
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Post by swampySCFC on Apr 14, 2009 20:00:23 GMT
>:(Send him a third one and just tell him to fuck off
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Post by shiny nosehair on Apr 14, 2009 20:04:21 GMT
DingDangDoo, don't let him see that !
My god man, his email account will be working overdrive !
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Post by fallheadsroll on Apr 14, 2009 20:12:32 GMT
Magnificent Bunny thats put goosebumps all over me.
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Post by Ddraigcoch on Apr 14, 2009 20:12:54 GMT
Good on ya Bunny....you've given him something to chew on for a while. However I thiink his preconceived ideas will remain unaltered. Jim Holden - Journalist ............my arse!!!
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Post by bunnyscfc on Apr 14, 2009 20:13:47 GMT
DDD,
crikey mate, my fingers are bleeding as I type this.
<insert 'painters in' joke here>
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Post by stayingupforalasrimmed on Apr 14, 2009 20:17:38 GMT
That's a better read than his...!
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Post by KevinWhimper on Apr 14, 2009 20:31:52 GMT
Superb mate, absolutely brilliant.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 14, 2009 20:43:35 GMT
Bunny mate, that is probably the best post I've ever read on here. It sums up so very eloquently what supporting Stoke City is all about. Brilliant mate!!!
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Post by Paul Spencer on Apr 14, 2009 20:46:50 GMT
Bunny, how come you were left in the car?
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Post by alan12661 on Apr 14, 2009 20:50:26 GMT
Bunny,
Sublime reading mate, you should be a football journalist, you have a gift of being able to put a reasonable arguement together without having to revert to demeanour as the illustrious Mr Holden seems to have done. Also, can I say that Trebor63 has succintly put into words that i have struggled with!! Smiley Thingy!!!
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Post by Laughing Gravy on Apr 14, 2009 20:52:21 GMT
Good stuff Bunny. Particularly the follow-up. You must teach at a private school though. None of my kids teachers could put a piece like that together Especially a PE teacher ffs ;D
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coggy1972
Academy Starlet
Mama to get Freedom of the City!
Posts: 145
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Post by coggy1972 on Apr 14, 2009 20:56:22 GMT
Bunny....a lump in my throat and a tear in my eye. Amazing reading. Thank you. I'm fed up with us being portrayed as the poor, thick supporters in the Premier Promised Land. You have restored my faith and I only hope he prints part/all in the paper. Long may you continue to prove them wrong.
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Post by sirpineapple89 on Apr 14, 2009 20:57:47 GMT
Awesome, mate.
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Post by bunnyscfc on Apr 14, 2009 20:58:22 GMT
Paul,
I don't honestly know mate. My old man went everywhere, simply everywhere. His stories of awaydays are what I will hold dear when he departs this earth. He simply lives and breathes Stoke City.
I simply remember it b eing a cold and wet day, and the car didn't even have a bloody radio. We didn't go shopping or owt.
I can only think that my old man is such a tight arse that he left us in there to save money from the 'car minding' scams in Merseyside.
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Post by stokie25 on Apr 14, 2009 20:58:48 GMT
excellent, once more bunny ;D Pertinent and heartfelt.....you are a bloke after my own heart
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Post by Paul Spencer on Apr 14, 2009 21:03:53 GMT
That was harsh on yer Bunny.
My dad took me and my brother to that game, Conroy went off for stitches in his head and then came back on and almost immediately put us 1-0 up.
Great reply to Holden mate.
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