The enigma that is Tony Pulis

[4thMarch1972]

I remember being genuinely excited the day that George Burley was to be appointed as manager of Stoke City. I also recall being gutted when he turned us down and angry beyond belief that second choice was to be Tony f*****g Pulis. I recall his first game at Walsall and the chants of 'you don't know what you're doing' and the 6-0 drubbing at Forest that followed. We went defensive and survived by the skin of our teeth on the last day. TP leaves and we heave a collective sigh of relief as we welcome Boskamp's ,ahem,' flowing football'.
Boskamp leaves and who do we appoint. Tony f*****g Pulis. We all know what followed and most of us are still in some kind of suspended disbelief that Tony got us here. I, for one, owe the man an enormous debt of gratitude for taking SCFC back into the national( international?) consciousness and for showing my son what it is to support a top flight club at last. He has always polarized opinion amongst our supporters whilst people like Macari (who achieved far less) are universally popular but you still feel that a couple of defeats and the Pulis haters ,who are probably just hibernating, will once again be out in force. I'm not entirely sure what I am trying to say other than 'thank you Tony', you certainly proved me wrong and long may that continue.

[dozintheseventees]

Wish others were as magnanimous fella. well done for that!

[mrpickles]

i'll second that

[chuffed]

Good Post. I agree TP is an enigma. In my opinion he is one of the most underrated managers in the country. basically, I think he organizes his team to try and win irrespective of how. He also is somewhat of a mystery man, never really opening up to either the press or the fans, instead limiting his rhetoric with sound bites, always trying to say the 'right thing'. Perhaps only the real TP will be revealed in some autobiography to come in the distant future. I think Stoke are fortunate to have him at this time when he appears to be coming to the peak of his abilities as a manager. So many other clubs seem to jump for the 'established previously successful but sacked Prem manager'. 'same old same old' Coates is a shrewed guy and his gut feeling about TP being the right man for the job is proving right.

[Hiram]

SuperTone's an open book - the PHWs are enigmatic.

[dwr17477]

I completely agree with your post 4thMarch1972.
Not sure what it is about this man but he does deserve more praise than he gets from a lot of us (me included). He is our second most successful manager after the Great Wadd, bar none, yet we still feel the need to question all he does when we have a little hiccup. It will happen again and, hopefully, he will prove himself once again to all us doubters.
The work he has done for our club is immense. I really did wonder if all I could look back on was top flight memories from years ago, but no, here we are, living the dream, pissing just about every media man going off, yet we still cannot get our collective heads around TP's management. I would cry if he left us at the moment but after we went two down to Villa I thought we were for relegation and it was time for TP to go. How wrong might(don't want to temp fate ) I be!!!
Special mention to Peter Coates, after all the shit he put us through, he managed to turn things round by really backing the club. Well done, PC.

[Hiram]

You've got to question the ball circulation though

[trebor63]

To be honest I think that most PHWs now know they were talking shite and most have realised what a top drawer manager TP is. The only reason TP has taken a while to win over the doubters is they weren't big enough to admit they called it hopelessly wrong.

Still alls well that ends well and at least we are (almost) all united behind one of our greatest ever managers

[kidsgrove4]

it wasn'tthat long ago that we thought Pulis was an enema, not an enigma. Times change quickly . !!! ;D

[dozintheseventees]

I think you'll find that the majority of Stoke fans have always had faith in him.

Some of the4 others have accepted the obvious evidence to suggest that our club is in safe hands.

Others just cannot admit they were wrong and so now question his tactics. (Tactics that got us here and are looking increasingly likely to keep us here)

[march4]

No mystery here for me.

TP is a very good manager, who because he never played at the top hasn't been given the credit he deserves by the media.

There was no way he was going to walk into a Prem manager's job like Strachan, Shearer, Adams, Robson, Ince, etc. TP has had to do the job the proper way, by building up clubs and getting them promoted.

Manager of the Season would be a fitting accolade, not just for TP, but for all of those unsung lower league managers who are doing a mighty fine job.

His is a tale of encouragement for any young manager or coach just starting out at a lower league club.

[BuzzB]

When the Icelandics sacked TP I was honestly shocked, and rather gutted! I thought he was actually building a very good side, steadily from the back four up. I thought it was very harsh, and as we have come to realise, he doesn't suffer fools and is no yes man, he has his own ideas and beliefs and has stuck by them. Lets be honest he has rode some rocky waters early in his second spell, that binary six months or so was dire. Credit to him though it was obviously all a long term plan and he didn't waver. Stability was the key word.
I was half and half on his reappointment, pleased in one way but desperate to see a fresh face with new ideas, wanting a biggish name after the Bossie fiasco to get us going.
All history and water under the proverbial bridge now, no doubt if we hit a horrendous spell now (god forbid) or next season, he will get slaughterd, but what he has achieved is superb, bit by bit we are getting there, no Stokie on this earth could have dreamt in 2002 that this bloke would get us where we are now, massive credit to Coatsey, their relationship is top notch and long may it continue, now, bring on those Geordies ;D ;D ;D

[TheWiseMaster]

Well I have to say that I have never had any doubt about what makes Pulis tick and I have always believed that he could make a good manager, given the chance

The doubts were created for many people (understandably) when Pulis went through his binary phase. There were special reasons for that episode but for many fans that time was a total turn-off and it has taken them a good while to recover

On top of that, as has been said, Pulis doesn't court popularity and he could at times use some PR - but that wouldn't be him would it?! I really do think that Stokies now see something of themselves in this quirky outsider

Pulis is a simple sole who realised a long time ago that he would be realatively successful if he won as many matches as possible and that defeat (and relegation) for any team he managed was to be avoided at all costs

Sounds easy but the overiding fear of failure has meant that Pulis wont gamble on any result. If he believes that his team is unlikely to win a game then he will settle for the point and play on the break (as we all know). Only when he believes we have the better team will he sanction the sort of attacking line-up we saw on Saturday

Pulis's real secret is without doubt his ability to chose players to fit into his playing system and even more important to only rely on team players who will put the group before themselves. This can't be easy to achieve with todays rich pros

I am sure we will stay up and I said that before the season started. What will now be interesting will be to see if Pulis can now build a team capable of improving on this great season

It is one thing to create the battling side he has built this season but yet another to improve it to the point where he doesn't feel obliged to play only on the break against the likes of Wigan etc next season

PS - even he couldn't have expected our crowd to be quite so fantastic as they have been for him this season - and they have made a difference. I have been watching Stoke for many many years and have never seen a season like this

[dozintheseventees]

Wise Master: Good points and I too have always had faith in TP's abilities. The support this season has been amazing but it's still a sore point with me that we don't sing his name with the same fervour that I feel he deserves. It's almost 'reluctant' support by some (for TP not the team). I know that his tactics and team selections have sometimes been questionable but that's what HE gets paid for and they have served him well. I know it doesn't endear him to some but even his harshest critics must surely by now accept that he is a damn good manager.l

[Deleted]

When we got promoted I published a similar post. The last quarter of last season made me temper my wankstaining. I realised that one way or another the club was going in the right direction and I'd rather have the wrong person getting the right results than the other way around. I also realised that the last thing Stoke needed was another swap in manager. Good clubs have stability in their management. You have pick your manager and then back your manager - warts and all. Ours happened to be Pulis. I came to realise that promotion when it came, had been achieved in spite of many things and not because of too many. This gave me a greater respect for Pulis. I was happy to make my apology on this message board and (even though I sometimes wonder what he is bloody doing) I have been happy to support TP ever since. If or when he goes, I will have nothing but thanks and praise for what he has done for Stoke.

[dozintheseventees]

Respect malvern!

[Paul Spencer]

Apr 6, 2009 21:50:23 GMT dwr17477 said:

yet we still feel the need to question all he does when we have a little hiccup.

I was dissapointed when Pulis left originally and happy enough on his return, however that doesn't mean that I'll blindly accept every decision he makes.

Benitez has taken Liverpool to two European Cup finals and currently has his club sitting in their srongest league position for years but that hasn't stopped MANY Liverpool fans questioning (quite rightly in my opinion) some of his bizzare tactical decisions this season.

[dozintheseventees]

I don't think anyone is criticising people who have the occasional dig at tactics etc. I think we all do that and have done with many previous managers. It's just that some NEED to maintain the pressure on every decision he makes because of the stance they took some time ago. Some are just waiting eagerly for the day they can say 'told you so' and refuse to accept that the bloke has done, and continues to do, a fantastic job for this football club.

[Paul Spencer]

Apr 7, 2009 0:18:24 GMT dozintheseventees said:

It's just that some NEED to maintain the pressure on every decision he makes because of the stance they took some time ago. Some are just waiting eagerly for the day they can say 'told you so' ...

I agree with you Doz, that is pretty pathetic, but no less pathetic than those on the other side of the fence who equally feel duty bound to unreservedly jump to the manager's defence WHENEVER he is criticised due to the polar position they too adopted sometime ago.

Thankfully the numbers in both camps are dwindingly significantly nowadays.

[dozintheseventees]

You're right. Both ends of the 'extreme' are equally 'boring'.

[cheekymatt71]

I think those few who loved saying "I told you so" whenever we lost under Pulis were always a minority that generally didnt attend many games.

I think any REAL Stoke fan would always want the team to win in any circumstance even if it meant an unlikeable manager stayed at the helm.
I always thought those few who delighted in seeing Stoke lose because it gave them a chance to shout "Pulis Out' (cue Hudsongod), are not genuine supporters in my opinion. Paying Customers Yes but Supporters No way

[garyhackett]

Didnt / dont think he has any personality whatsoever and i still think his tactics are very out of date but hey we are on the verge of a second spell in the Prem so i will forgive these flaws and congratulate him on his success and long may it continue.

[Malex]

I agree with pretty much all that's been said, and I'm by no means a PHW.

I think that overall though he's his own worst enemy. He's got potential to be an amazing manager but his stubborness and favourtism in spite of form means that he's only a very good manager at the moment. I'm overall ecstatic by the postition that we're in at the moment and completely surprised if truth be told, but at the same time it's frustrating as at times as I feel that we could be in an even better position. I know that this is our first season up here and that he definately had his work cut out in getting the squad to the strength it is now, and that next season once it's been strengthened our squad will actually be very formiddable. But at the same time it's annoying, and I'm certain that everyone is guilty of thinking this at at least some point during the season, our squad has not been utilised fully effectively with square pegs in round hole and out of form players in place of more dependable players.

This coupled with some rather bizarre signings for players that either didn't fit our style or just simply weren't up the task in hand, for which I don't know if he can hold FULL accountability for, has basically provided relatively valid ammunition for the PHW's to use against him.

He's human and we all make mistakes, the way we progress is by learning from them which I honestly believe he is doing and will continue to do.

[dozintheseventees]

Gary:

Is football such a complicated and evolving game that ANY tactic becomes out of date. Surely the aim is to be successful by whatever means you are able. Our 'friends' in Smethwick have been taught this harsh lesson this season. Their manager has been praised in the media for sticking to his principles despite results, and for maintaining an honourable philosophy on how the game should be played. In my opinion, the guy is a complete idiot who all but guarenteed their relegation from the moment they were promoted with his stubborn refusal to learn the lessons that experience should have taught him. You play to your strengths and no-one has done that better than Stoke City this season. Pulis has a way of setting his teams out to compete with squads that are generally better and have cost much more to assemble. His career has been spent, mainly in the lower divisions, and until last season, he has rarely had money to spend. He signs players he believes he can trust and sends teams out to 'compete'. OK we can criticise his tactics away from home because our jobs don't depend on it, but none of us knows that a more adventurous set up away from home would have yeilded any more points (it's pure guesswork). He uses the type of player, and the tactics that work for him and have done over a good many years. He has taken Stoke City from the brink of the Third Tier to a fantastic season of competing with some of the very best (Embarrassing several along the way). At no stage of this season have I been embarrassed by my team (bet baggies fans wish they could say the same).

As for having 'no personality' I think that's just plain insulting. I don't expect my manager to be a TV entertainer, I expect him to manage the players and get results and, on both counts, he scores. He could, of course be like Brown and grab the headlines at every given opportunity, bollock his players at a half-time sit in on the pitch. Then again he could hold press conferences to 'explain' to the media' that it's not actually results that count but the beautiful way you play the game. I know what I prefer!

I doubt that we will ever see a sparkling team of footballing superstars under Pulis but we really do need to remember who and what we are. As long as he is manager I know that he will rely on the lessons that his years in the game have taught him and send out a team to 'compete' and I am happy to support him in that. He has given this Club, these fans and this City some pride back after decades in the wilderness. We won't 'dazzle' anyone with our football but we WILL compete with some of the very best and 'hold our own' If they are outdated tactics, they'll do for me.

[canadianmoose]

There was an interview with a girl on the BBC website the other day.....lots of laughing and joking from Pulis. He showed lots of 'personality' on that one.......

[mcf]

Talk about over complicating matters.

PHWs were the stubborn cunts, not Pulis.

He's provided us, to date (and there is still plenty to do), with everything that was required and all along, he has done it his way - using the very means that were scoffed at by the PHWs.

We work hard and we play it safe. We are direct and we tend not to fuck about with the ball in the wrong areas. It is perhaps the basis of all good football sides. Pulis has always maintained that better players produce a better quality of football. We are improving as new and better players come to the club to mix with his previous excellent acquisitions.

Our resident PHWs have lived in some fantasy land where Pulis was the dinosaur and there was a plethora of modern coaches out there who would turn average footballers and kids into world beaters. The truth is, you polish gems, not dog turds and gems are either unearthed or bought for quite a price.

This whole PR issue with TP is bollox too. Its a state of mind for many where plenty of our fans simply couldn't bear to look or hear him without going into a hissy fit. The feel good factor of a promotion, beating a host of decent Prem sides and generally lifting the club to a whole new level as somewhat mellowed this position.

As posted by others, although it doesn't take Einstein to work it out, the wankstains will be back moaning their sorry arses off during the next lean spell.

[Lakeland Potter]

Pulis is no enigma - he is very predictable. He is a decent manager who can make mistakes but who has an eye for a bargin and a philisophy of building his sides based on a sound defence and strong midfielders willing to track back. He also has a stubborn streak which can make him very reluctant to abandon a player or a tactic until he has seen it fail a several times. Like many managers he has his favourites. Despite this he is, unlike some managers, able to engender tremendous team spirit and it is this as much as anything which enables his teams to often "punch above their weight. He is a working class man at heart and his unease with the media (although this has improved this season) can often make him appear uncomfortable at best and inarticulate at worst. What is enigmatic about that?

On the other hand Stoke fans must be the biggest enigma in British football. We've gone from one of the more apathetic crowds in the Championship to the noisiest in the Premiership in a few short months. and you can't say it was inevitable because we got promoted. The Baggies were silent on Saturday, Reading didn't raise the roof when they were in the Prem and Bolton's Reebock sounds like a library.

[Pugsley]

What a load of sanctimonious claptrap. Enigma my arse. He's a run of the mill manager who does things by percentages. Clough was an enigma.

Tony Pulis came to Stoke (twice) with a distinctly average record as a manager (it could be argued poor) and a dubious record off the pitch i.e. in the courtroom. His manner made it particularly difficult to warm to him, unlike Macari, and his tactics are only now just coming out of the Jurassic period.

What can't be argued are his achievements at Stoke where, once Coates backed him properly, he has done exceptionally well. I have noticed that since his success he has become a lot more like-able and I'm hoping that in the close season we sign some more footballers and we develop our play, although we need to keep the aggression and organisation.

So there we have it, Pulis has done a great job once Coates gave him the money. Staying in the Premiership will be a great achievement and puts Pulis just behind Waddo as great Stoke managers.

I'll be accused of classic wankstainery but I don't give a shit.

[Deleted]

I have never been one of Tones biggest fans thats for sure. But he overall he has done a superb job in his second spell, promotion and survival if achieved cannot and should not be argued with. His handling of the media has been excellent when compared to other managers in the top flight.

Of course his tactics and selections especially away from home drive me crackers but I have to take my baseball cap off to him and say well done, Tone and PC have done a brilliant job for Stoke City and I hope the foundations are being laid to ensure our long term success.

[RAF]

I think we can safely say that both PC and TP's second installment as Chairman and Manager (not together) are significantly more successful than their first.
And I for one couldn't be happier, they deserve all the plaudits along with the players, especially if we stay up.
Let us not forget Stoke fans tried to lynch Coates after the drubbing by Birmingham, and TP was derided for his binary season by all but the insane.
It's laughable especially from the likes of mcf and others who claim now to be some kind of fucking Nostradamus that the return of PC and TP would reap the rewards and the more vocal of us with concerns and knowing their reputations were being stubborn.
Just because you were more than prepared to welcome them back with open arms doesn't mean fuck all, apart from you are more forgiving than myself and others.
Some could be forgiven for not knowing Coates's reputation as they were either too young or supporting Colchester at the time.

H