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Post by dan999 on Jan 18, 2009 0:09:25 GMT
Unbelievable
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Post by Gods on Jan 18, 2009 0:12:00 GMT
What's "unbelievable"?
Surely not that anyone might question the tactics when we have the worst away record amongst 92 clubs in the football league bar nobody?
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Post by Deleted on Jan 18, 2009 0:16:56 GMT
I'm going to stick up for Jazzy a bit here. Of course we couldn't really have gone to Stamford Bridge today and really have set up any differently. However Jazzy's title to this thread is "why does he have us sitting back all the time" not "why did he have us sitting back today" Some of the abuse he's getting here is a bit wide of the mark. The fact of the matter is that we have managed to achieve 3pts away from home this season. Against Liverpool and Wigan we set up the same way and managed to get a point from each by the skin of our teeth, quite how we didn't concede in either game was quite frankly incredible. The other point we have got was against Newcastle, where as we were already 2-0 down by half time, we actually HAD to take the game to Newcastle and proved that we can actually play a bit and earned ourselves a great point. The first half today reminded me very much of the Old Trafford game, but thanks to Sorro we went in level at half time, it was really down to a great goalkeeping display rather than our tactics that meant we were level come the start of the second half. I don't see how it can be argued that our tactics away from home are working when we have so little to show for it. Today was a fantastic effort from the lads and as I said earlier I don't think we really could have set up any other way. However it's the remaining away games that we've got to look to now, and I'm not at all convinced that if we continue to play keeping it tight and hoping to nick somet on our travels, that we're likely to win any of our away games this season. Paul I think the remaining away gamed based on what I saw today will be a hell of a lot different than what we have witnessed up to now. Other team will not have as much possesion as Chelsea did today and we will have at least 3 players who can now counter at pace which gives TP more ammunition in the game plan he puts out away from home. Gutted today as everyone else but I am pretty confident we are not one of the 3 shittest teams in this league.
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jazzy
Youth Player
Posts: 407
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Post by jazzy on Jan 18, 2009 0:17:07 GMT
The fact of the matter is that we have managed to achieve 3pts away from home this season.
Against Liverpool and Wigan we set up the same way and managed to get a point from each by the skin of our teeth, quite how we didn't concede in either game was quite frankly incredible.
The other point we have got was against Newcastle, where as we were already 2-0 down by half time, we actually HAD to take the game to Newcastle and proved that we can actually play a bit and earned ourselves a great point.
The first half today reminded me very much of the Old Trafford game, but thanks to Sorro we went in level at half time, it was really down to a great goalkeeping display rather than our tactics that meant we were level come the start of the second half.
I don't see how it can be argued that our tactics away from home are working when we have so little to show for it.
Today was a fantastic effort from the lads and as I said earlier I don't think we really could have set up any other way.
However it's the remaining away games that we've got to look to now, and I'm not at all convinced that if we continue to play keeping it tight and hoping to nick somet on our travels, that we're likely to win any of our away games this season.
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that is spot on !!
i should of wrote that asmy thread !!
i am a season ticket holder and proud to be a stokie !!
but we need points --- rapido !!
i hope we dont leave our fate until the last game of the season !! arsenal away !!
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Post by Deleted on Jan 18, 2009 0:22:54 GMT
The fact of the matter is that we have managed to achieve 3pts away from home this season. Against Liverpool and Wigan we set up the same way and managed to get a point from each by the skin of our teeth, quite how we didn't concede in either game was quite frankly incredible. The other point we have got was against Newcastle, where as we were already 2-0 down by half time, we actually HAD to take the game to Newcastle and proved that we can actually play a bit and earned ourselves a great point. The first half today reminded me very much of the Old Trafford game, but thanks to Sorro we went in level at half time, it was really down to a great goalkeeping display rather than our tactics that meant we were level come the start of the second half. I don't see how it can be argued that our tactics away from home are working when we have so little to show for it. Today was a fantastic effort from the lads and as I said earlier I don't think we really could have set up any other way. However it's the remaining away games that we've got to look to now, and I'm not at all convinced that if we continue to play keeping it tight and hoping to nick somet on our travels, that we're likely to win any of our away games this season. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- that is spot on !! i should of wrote that asmy thread !! i am a season ticket holder and proud to be a stokie !! but we need points --- rapido !! i hope we dont leave our fate until the last game of the season !! arsenal away !! Jazzy I can understand your point and I had shouted god knows how many times today. Get fucking out close down in the middle of the park. Today however I don't think that had a bearing in the result I think some of the things that conspired in those last 8 miuntes were shit reffing and poor play form Stoke when we should of gone uber tight.
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Post by Paul Spencer on Jan 18, 2009 0:23:13 GMT
I'm going to stick up for Jazzy a bit here. Of course we couldn't really have gone to Stamford Bridge today and really have set up any differently. However Jazzy's title to this thread is "why does he have us sitting back all the time" not "why did he have us sitting back today" Some of the abuse he's getting here is a bit wide of the mark. The fact of the matter is that we have managed to achieve 3pts away from home this season. Against Liverpool and Wigan we set up the same way and managed to get a point from each by the skin of our teeth, quite how we didn't concede in either game was quite frankly incredible. The other point we have got was against Newcastle, where as we were already 2-0 down by half time, we actually HAD to take the game to Newcastle and proved that we can actually play a bit and earned ourselves a great point. The first half today reminded me very much of the Old Trafford game, but thanks to Sorro we went in level at half time, it was really down to a great goalkeeping display rather than our tactics that meant we were level come the start of the second half. I don't see how it can be argued that our tactics away from home are working when we have so little to show for it. Today was a fantastic effort from the lads and as I said earlier I don't think we really could have set up any other way. However it's the remaining away games that we've got to look to now, and I'm not at all convinced that if we continue to play keeping it tight and hoping to nick somet on our travels, that we're likely to win any of our away games this season. Paul I think the remaining away gamed based on what I saw today will be a hell of a lot different than what we have witnessed up to now. Other team will not have as much possesion as Chelsea did today and we will have at least 3 players who can now counter at pace which gives TP more ammunition in the game plan he puts out away from home. Gutted today as everyone else but I am pretty confident we are not one of the 3 shittest teams in this league. 'Paul I think the remaining away gamed based on what I saw today will be a hell of a lot different than what we have witnessed up to now.' We've still got to go to Spurs, Villa, Everton and even the Baggies yet Sidders.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 18, 2009 0:27:27 GMT
We have indeed but I saw a lot of promise today. Some things looked like they could be worked on and then we can all have a good fucking cheer at a Stoke away win
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Post by Paul Spencer on Jan 18, 2009 0:31:17 GMT
We have indeed but I saw a lot of promise today. Some things looked like they could be worked on and then we can all have a good fucking cheer at a Stoke away win Tons of promise mate, I thought the lads worked like Trojans and each and every one of them were a credit to the shirt today. It's going to be interesting to see how Pulis approaches our remaining away fixtures.
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Post by spitthedog on Jan 18, 2009 0:33:05 GMT
i think you could also ask why can't we keep possession??? how many games have we played when we have around 30% of possession, you simply cannot win games with that level of possession. our passing is poor. we need a player who can put their foot on the ball, and pass it to a stoke player, instead of booting it up all the time. sitting back and inability to keep possession is a recipe for disaster at this level
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Post by Deleted on Jan 18, 2009 0:33:17 GMT
We have indeed but I saw a lot of promise today. Some things looked like they could be worked on and then we can all have a good fucking cheer at a Stoke away win Tons of promise mate, I thought the lads worked like Trojans and each and every one of them were a credit to the shirt today. It's going to be interesting to see how Pulis approaches our remaining away fixtures. Beattie and Ethel are going to be real handful for defenses mate and it looks like Rory is over his shit period. I thought he was bang on again today.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 18, 2009 0:35:03 GMT
i think you could also ask why can't we keep possession??? how many games have we played when we have around 30% of possession, you simply cannot win games with that level of possession. our passing is poor. we need a player who can put their foot on the ball, and pass it to a stoke player, instead of booting it up all the time. sitting back and inability to keep possession is a recipe for disaster at this level There were parts of the game in the second half we looked 100% better on the ball. It is just when the ball is punted forward we lose poessesion. The work on the left between Pugh and Etherington at times was very very encouraging
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Post by Smudge_SCFC on Jan 18, 2009 0:35:56 GMT
We have indeed but I saw a lot of promise today. Some things looked like they could be worked on and then we can all have a good fucking cheer at a Stoke away win Tons of promise mate, I thought the lads worked like Trojans and each and every one of them were a credit to the shirt today. It's going to be interesting to see how Pulis approaches our remaining away fixtures. Well that really is the acid test now. We have eight games left and will most probably need two wins to give ourselves a fighting chance. Parking the bus in front of the goal has got us 3 points from 33 so far this season and the worst away record of the entire 92 league clubs. It's not just about today, it's about our combined body of work. What we've tried so far hasn't worked and we have to take a different approach.
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Post by Titan Uranus on Jan 18, 2009 0:37:20 GMT
The same way he has approached any previous fixture in his managerial career.
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Post by Paul Spencer on Jan 18, 2009 0:37:41 GMT
i think you could also ask why can't we keep possession??? how many games have we played when we have around 30% of possession, you simply cannot win games with that level of possession. our passing is poor. we need a player who can put their foot on the ball, and pass it to a stoke player, instead of booting it up all the time. sitting back and inability to keep possession is a recipe for disaster at this level I agree with all of that spit. Maybe Pulis sets us up to play so deep because he doesn't actually believe his current crop of players are good enough to play it any other way. Let's hope he can bring in that midfield player during this window which will give him the confidence to believe they can.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 18, 2009 0:41:22 GMT
Tons of promise mate, I thought the lads worked like Trojans and each and every one of them were a credit to the shirt today. It's going to be interesting to see how Pulis approaches our remaining away fixtures. Well that really is the acid test now. We have eight games left and will most probably need two wins to give ourselves a fighting chance. Parking the bus in front of the goal has got us 3 points from 33 so far this season and the worst away record of the entire 92 league clubs. It's not just about today, it's about our combined body of work. What we've tried so far hasn't worked and we have to take a different approach. There were aspects of the game today where we looked so much better in the second half. We had outlets to move the ball to without punting it aimlessly to no one. Hell we even had some one waiting to run on to the ball from a corner that must be progress in itself. I am not sure how much will change away but I know we do look better after today's showing.
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coggy
Youth Player
Posts: 340
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Post by coggy on Jan 18, 2009 0:50:58 GMT
Bring in Ledley, can hold play, pick a pass, perfect.
Ledley, Matty, Beattie, they would get some nice stuff going and be a great threat
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Post by bostedclog on Jan 18, 2009 0:52:23 GMT
Not reallty related to today but sitting back,did in my opinion cost us promotion the season before last with the amount of late goals we conceded
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Post by Paul Spencer on Jan 18, 2009 0:52:51 GMT
Bring in Ledley, can hold play, pick a pass, perfect. Ledley, Matty, Beattie, they would get some nice stuff going and be a great threat Ledley scored again today didn't he? It's gone worringly quiet on that front.
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coggy
Youth Player
Posts: 340
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Post by coggy on Jan 18, 2009 0:58:12 GMT
Yes it has gone quiet. I would love him and think it's just what we need on the left side of CM to feed Matty at LM and vice versa.
Get Liam on the right, Beattie & Fuller up top mmmmmm nice !
Sorry, yes he scored today
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clippo
Academy Starlet
Posts: 140
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Post by clippo on Jan 18, 2009 1:02:34 GMT
totally gutted !! the reason we havent won away from home is because of the negative tactics . you cant play against world class players and sit back for 90 mins !! sooner or later they will punish you . its not rocket science !! possesion ----- chelsea 72% --- stoke 28% total shots ---- chelsea 29 ------ stoke 4 !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! we had the game today there for the taking at 1 up and blew it !! if it wasn't for those 'negative tactics' we would have been drummed beyond belief
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Post by Smudge_SCFC on Jan 18, 2009 1:11:25 GMT
totally gutted !! the reason we havent won away from home is because of the negative tactics . you cant play against world class players and sit back for 90 mins !! sooner or later they will punish you . its not rocket science !! possesion ----- chelsea 72% --- stoke 28% total shots ---- chelsea 29 ------ stoke 4 !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! we had the game today there for the taking at 1 up and blew it !! if it wasn't for those 'negative tactics' we would have been drummed beyond belief To be perfectly honest with you, I'd have taken a heavy defeat today for more adventurous tactics in our other away games so far this season. I can't see how we'd have done any worse then 3 points from eleven games if we'd gone for it a little more. And to be fair West Ham (one of those teams we think we're going to beat at The Brit later this season) weren't "drummed beyond belief" when they went to Stamford Bridge with a 4-4-2 formation this season and got a 1-1 draw.
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Post by christhepotter on Jan 18, 2009 1:18:19 GMT
smudge has got it spot on . its about all the away games if we don't get 2 or 3 away wins we will go down. we need to be more positive or we will pay the price
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jazzy
Youth Player
Posts: 407
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Post by jazzy on Jan 18, 2009 1:55:49 GMT
We have indeed but I saw a lot of promise today. Some things looked like they could be worked on and then we can all have a good fucking cheer at a Stoke away win we will all drink to that !
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jazzy
Youth Player
Posts: 407
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Post by jazzy on Jan 18, 2009 2:01:40 GMT
Not reallty related to today but sitting back,did in my opinion cost us promotion the season before last with the amount of late goals we conceded[/quote i agree that your right in a way , different squad back then and we did not have the players who were capable of closing a game off . we have come a long way , but if we are to survive , we have got to aim to take more 3 points from 33 !
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jazzy
Youth Player
Posts: 407
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Post by jazzy on Jan 18, 2009 2:04:17 GMT
Paul I think the remaining away gamed based on what I saw today will be a hell of a lot different than what we have witnessed up to now. Other team will not have as much possesion as Chelsea did today and we will have at least 3 players who can now counter at pace which gives TP more ammunition in the game plan he puts out away from home. Gutted today as everyone else but I am pretty confident we are not one of the 3 shittest teams in this league. 'Paul I think the remaining away gamed based on what I saw today will be a hell of a lot different than what we have witnessed up to now.' We've still got to go to Spurs, Villa, Everton and even the Baggies yet Sidders. just look at them : spurs , villa , everton and west brom . they will all be tough games and we need to aim for 3 points EACH GAME !
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Post by tuum on Jan 18, 2009 5:06:58 GMT
A few posters are very quick to criticise any person who dares suggest that we try & adopt a more adventurous approach away from home. Their standard response is that to do such a thing would result in us getting dicked by 4 or 5 goals as teams take advantage of the space. My response is so what? I would rather lose eight games 0-4 and win the other two than draw three and lose the other seven by the odd goal. The only downside to the former is the possible adverse effect on confidence and morale among the players & fans alike. Goal Difference will not be the issue at the end of the season. Even if it is then TP will only have himself to blame because his negative tactics away from home will inevitably have meant that we missed out on that one extra point.
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Post by JoeinOz on Jan 18, 2009 6:35:05 GMT
I wouldn't say we deliberately sat back at Chelsea it was just that we couldn't get the sodding ball off them long enough to launch an attack.
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Post by stokebill on Jan 18, 2009 8:33:45 GMT
As was said yesterday - the season starts now. I don't blame Pulis for the way he set up yesterday, but I will blame him if he plays this way away from home for the remainder of the season (Villa and Everton aside perhaps)
He has to show more trust in our defenders to do their job without the midfield constantly holding their hands - they are showing they are up to the task. I'm not saying we should go gung-ho, just more like the home games - moderately conservative as opposed to ultra conservative.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 18, 2009 9:28:31 GMT
A few posters are very quick to criticise any person who dares suggest that we try & adopt a more adventurous approach away from home. Their standard response is that to do such a thing would result in us getting dicked by 4 or 5 goals as teams take advantage of the space. My response is so what? I would rather lose eight games 0-4 and win the other two than draw three and lose the other seven by the odd goal. The only downside to the former is the possible adverse effect on confidence and morale among the players & fans alike. Goal Difference will not be the issue at the end of the season. Even if it is then TP will only have himself to blame because his negative tactics away from home will inevitably have meant that we missed out on that one extra point. I just can't believe that you would think that. If we came away after having 5 or 6 goals agianst us then that would of done the team more harm than good. Chelsea were nothing short of rampant yesterday, they played like a top 4 team. Quick on the ball frightenigly accurate with the passing and possesion which naturally withdrew our players. It didn't help the cause when that tosser of a ref booked Amdy and took away our ability in midfield to close down and subdue the Chelsea movement from the middle. Once he was booked his job for the day was over. I don't know how being open and attacking today would of helped us to get a result any more than the way we played. I do think we sat too deep and that caused us problems but I don't think it cost us the game as much as people are blaming, I think it was errors in a tired defense that was the ultimate down fall.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 18, 2009 9:31:21 GMT
As was said yesterday - the season starts now. I don't blame Pulis for the way he set up yesterday, but I will blame him if he plays this way away from home for the remainder of the season (Villa and Everton aside perhaps) He has to show more trust in our defenders to do their job without the midfield constantly holding their hands - they are showing they are up to the task. I'm not saying we should go gung-ho, just more like the home games - moderately conservative as opposed to ultra conservative. Greay point SB though and with what I saw yesterday we now have some players that may allow us to be more of an attacking threat away from home.
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