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Post by rabbigan on Nov 17, 2008 10:35:44 GMT
After 58 years watching Stoke play generally uninspired football Saturday was a new low point.
Our team was prepared and sent to Old Trafford with losing as the only scenario. They were not sent to attempt to win and it is shameful.
I assume that on this board most of the subscribers will at some time have played the game themseleves and if they played long enough will also know that if you play any game with sufficient commitment and effort even against teams who on paper are able to beat you then sometimes you can get a surprise result.
Conversely if yopu approach games with your mind filled with inevitable loss as the scenario then invariably you lose and that is what happened to us on Saturday.
Losing 5 nil is not the point. Losing 1 nil and playing the game with no intention to to try win is just as bad in my book.
Nobody will convince me that the Pulis philosophy is good for our team in the long run. To play 4 midfielders Diao, Faye,Delap and Olofinjana who are identical type of players (midfield grafters) defies understanding when to stand any chance in such a match you must have one player who can pass , who can create, who can hit a good free kick, take a good corner, can take some pressure off the defence is essential. To then exacerbate the situation by replacing Olofinjana with Cresswell who brings nothing absoloutely nothing to the team is incredible and so stupid and addled in thinking it defies explanation.
We had on the bench Whelan who should certainly have started who has all of the above attributes and in addtion he has played as wide midfielder for Wednesday and successfully. Having been forced to make a change this should have been the solution. Also we had Tonge who has played all of his career at Sheffield United as wide midfielder apart from about 6 months. He also has a quality pass in him and good delivery. He was bought as wide midfielder for £2 million because he was "better than what we had".
Tom Soares was not on the bench and why not??In what department of the game is Cresswell a better player than Soares?
We will not survive without getting a win or two away from home that is for sure. Good results away from home are massive confidence boosters and negativity in play breeds negativity throughout the team.
For my group of 3 on Saturday I payed £150 for tickets plus travelling plus snacks not much change out of £250. For this I should at the least expect a performance from my team. Alternatively like the pricing structure grading for home fixtures we need one for away games so the ones where the manager has decided before the game we are setting out our stall to lose we should be told. The team does not need support if we are not trying to win.
The postmatch interview with Nigel Johnsons was unreal. Apparently if they had not got the second just before half time we would have been in with a chance of winning. To have managed that we would have needed more than Delaps throws. We needed some bugger able to shoor from 80 yards out where we were parked perpetually.
That interview also started the "bigging up of Derby". They were in the premiership last year (they were shite last year) They have some excellent players (name them please)
I had given up hope of seeing Stoke in the Premiership again and for this I am grateful to Peter Coates and lesser extent Pulis but I dont want to survive at all costs and if waving the white flag before kick off is necessary then I prefer life in the Championship.
AS for Kitson we have to have a passer like Whelan in the team and then you will see him score. In the system of bash it somewhere near Mama and see what happens or try and get a throw in he aint going to be the man. Get somebody passing and crossing he is a good finisher. I am not sure how you spend 5.5 million on a player and do not understand how he has to be played for best reuslts.
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Post by maninasuitcase on Nov 17, 2008 10:40:25 GMT
Spot on with your last point mate. Ball to feet for Kitson. And believe me Cresswell coming on angered the vast majority, bar the numpty i mentioned on the Whelan Thread, who clearly needs a frontal lobotomy with my right boot.
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Post by davejohnno1 on Nov 17, 2008 10:49:43 GMT
It was very disappointing from us, particularly saving our worst and most insipid display for Saturday.
However, in the scheme of things, any team outside of the top 4 could be on the wrong end a hiding like ours on Saturday. It is after weekends like this when you need a midweek fixture.
Still, a win on Saturday and our horror show of Saturday will be forgotten.
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Post by luke45 on Nov 17, 2008 10:50:56 GMT
I think your thread title is utter rubbish really, there is no 'shame' in losing to the champions of europe away from home, we aren't in the same league as them, thats a sad reality, even with a different, attacking approach we still wouldn't have won the game, this defeat boils down to one thing, one side being far superior to us.
The next two games are the important games, i could understand criticism if we lost those games, their the kind of games which give us a big insentive into our chances, you can't have honestly expected us to take the game to top 4 teams away and get results, the gulf in class is huge, and most of these games are damage limitation away from home.
I firmly believe we will get those few wins on the road, we still have several places i believe we can go and get points from, newcastle being a fine example.
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Post by Smudge_SCFC on Nov 17, 2008 10:53:42 GMT
I don't disagree with much of what you've said but "shame" is too strong.
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Post by wardrobe monster on Nov 17, 2008 11:04:35 GMT
It struck me it was the same tactics as Liverpool, which worked and everyone raved about. We tried it against Man Utd and it failed so its a disaster? The first goal went in on Saturday, against Liverpool it was inexplicably ruled out. The 2 games then took 2 completely different paths.
There are 3 really bad times to cocede a goal. Early on, at the end of the first half and at the start of the 2nd half. We managed all 3.
In between the first and second goal we did okay, limited them to one real chance (admitidly neither did we, apart from the Delap throw which Van Der Sar slapped away).
The majority of us thought we would lose, and probably lose big. We did....................move on.
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Post by twinedwitherlangen on Nov 17, 2008 11:05:50 GMT
I agree with Kitson to feet, it was clear as day in the cup match that Pugh and Whelan passed it to his feet thus enabling him to show the trickery and skill that he does possess, hoofing long balls up to him at chest, head or over head height dunna really work for the big man
But i have to say 'shame' is very very very OTT, it was not shamefull
Now, if we lose 3-0 at home to Hull, that may be shamefull, i cant think of any midlands club who'd allow that to happen to them though ;-)
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Post by dandare on Nov 17, 2008 11:28:06 GMT
A brave post Rabbigan and a valid one too. I don't think we can criticise Pulis too much for putting out a defensive team against the likes of Man U and Chelsea but even were he to have unlimited resources at his disposal, he's never ever going to set the world alight with an exciting, attacking brand of football. That's just not in his philosophy. He plays a type which is effective, efficient but deadly dull. And you're right, it is a shame. Whether we stay up or not will depend very much on who else we can bring in during the January transfer window. We desperately need a little bit of guile and flair in midfield but would any player with these qualities now want to come to a club with the reputation for playing the type of football we play?
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Post by swampySCFC on Nov 17, 2008 11:28:29 GMT
A well constructed post with good points although the "suicidal" nature of it is a little too strong.
The defeat has affected me more than any in recent times because I think we could have done better and the nature of our performance did nothing to defend the club from the criticism it has received, unfairly, since last May.
I cannot understand how most of them could perform poorly at the same time in a showpiece game and why Tony would think Cresswell was the right option as sub.
The only explanation I can find is that we are still star struck or nervous about taking on these teams and that is something we have to get over quickly.
It is only one game and two wins in the coming home games will change the picture dramatically.
Yes it was disappointing but they are the Champions of the best league in the world and at the pinnacle of the game worldwide so we should see it as no disgrace.
In terms of progress, people were telling us that Pulis would never get us promoted last year but he did of course and he has confounded his critics consistently since he returned.
The key now is to keep us there and try and close that gap as much as possible to the top teams in terms of quality.
The financial structure of clubs like Manure is something that we can never get close to and therefore arguably we will never compete on a level playing field (£175k a week for Ronaldo!).
A pasting was quite likely but Manure wont win the league by beating us -they need to beat the Chelsea's, Liverpool's etc and similarly we wont go down losing to them-for us we need to beat teams like Hull, Fulham etc.
Im putting it behind me now
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Post by Deleted on Nov 17, 2008 11:49:46 GMT
For want of a better word, what a load of bollocks rabbigan. We were beaten convincingly on Saturday but you have to look at the opposition and accept that that was always a possibility. They will take many teams apart this season due to the sheer quality they have throughout the team. We’re talking about one of the best footballing teams in the world here, the fact that we are competing in the same league as them shows how far we have come in such a short space of time. You can question the tactics all you want but when they play like that you can’t do anything.
We’ve already taken 4 points off 2 of the “big 4”, what are your thoughts on that rabbigan? We’ve taken points off Arsenal, Liverpool, Spurs and Villa this season; did this leave you with shame at the final whistle? Did Pulis get his tactics spot on for these games.
I have nothing but pride for the players and Pulis for given us top flight football for the first time in many, many years…..it’s been a long time coming.
The step up is huge and the fact that we are competing and taking some big scalps along the way is enough to make me a very happy potter.
Shame? What a load of bollocks…….immense pride for me.
WD
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Post by JoeinOz on Nov 17, 2008 12:02:09 GMT
If we win saturday the shit result will be well and truly behind us. Upwards and onwards.
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Post by Beardy200 on Nov 17, 2008 12:06:48 GMT
It struck me it was the same tactics as Liverpool, which worked and everyone raved about. We tried it against Man Utd and it failed so its a disaster? The first goal went in on Saturday, against Liverpool it was inexplicably ruled out. The 2 games then took 2 completely different paths. There are 3 really bad times to cocede a goal. Early on, at the end of the first half and at the start of the 2nd half. We managed all 3. In between the first and second goal we did okay, limited them to one real chance (admitidly neither did we, apart from the Delap throw which Van Der Sar slapped away). The majority of us thought we would lose, and probably lose big. We did....................move on. I didn't rave about the Liverpool game and a lot agreed with me. Lots raves about the result but the tactics were poor and it was only good fortune, quality defending and poor Liverpool finishing that stopped them putting 5 past us aswell. I too think the Newcastle, Fulham games etc etc are winnable away but not with the mindset our away tactics are putting us in. Surely they are no more winnable than Wigan where we were awful but got very lucky again.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 17, 2008 12:09:04 GMT
We matched Wigan first half but were awful after Sidibe went off. It's that lack of Plan B, true to form, which continues to worry.
People talk about the Liverpool game with ifs and buts, but the fact is we defended magnificently and came away with a valuable point which could prove to be crucial. West Brom tried to pass it round them and got dry-bummed.
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Post by FullerMagic on Nov 17, 2008 12:14:09 GMT
I think 'shame' probably is putting it too strongly.
But paying £50+ to watch your team turn up to voluntarily act as a punchbag (albeit to a top quality team) isn't too pleasurable. The midfield line-up defied belief in the circumstances. 4 stodgy grafters offered us no release valve at all, and we were begging to be walloped.
The Cresswell sub just summed up everything that's wrong with our approach away from home.
We're so Jekyll and Hyde. Every home game has been a pleasure to attend. We've stumbled on a great formula so far at the Britannia, on our little pitch.
Though take 1of the 2 key pieces of Fuller and Delap out and that may change?
But, away from home, we're stumbling around in the dark.
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Post by RAF on Nov 17, 2008 12:15:02 GMT
I don't think shame is the right word. I was disappointed that our team looked beaten before the kickoff, and probably a bit embarrassed that we didn't seem to have any fight. I certainly wouldn't say I was proud either, but at the end of the day we got a hiding off the Champions of England and Europe, and to be honest they could have scored more. It's the games like Brazil we need to be concentrating on now.
H
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Post by starkiller on Nov 17, 2008 12:17:02 GMT
Just because we have had a few great moments this season doesn't mean I should subscribe to the 'we should just be proud (grateful) to be there" mentality of many on here.
Our other games are irrelevant to the one witnessed on Saturday.
Saturday was pretty shameful and it wasn't because of the scoreline but the approach. I don't want my team to be surrender monkeys.
Nevermind Hull, even Burton Albion gave it more of a go there.
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Post by CraigWally on Nov 17, 2008 12:17:02 GMT
There was no shame in the result - but there was shame in the manner of our performance and that was no way to repay the vocal support that they received from the terraces. Had we have held out like we did at Anfield then fair enough. The shame was that we continued with our tactic even though we'd fell behind. The decision to play Cresswell was just...... indefendable
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Post by rabbigan on Nov 17, 2008 12:33:59 GMT
Why Delilah, You make my point for me thank you.
We got points against Arsenal,Spurs and Villa becuase wcompeted. Against Chelsea we lost because we did not compete but selected Cresswell to start and he gifted them the first goal by not picking up the fullback he was supposed to be tracking.
Liverpool was not a a brilliant tactical success. If Gerrards early goal had been allowed we would have been hammered and only escaped because of the awful finishing of Liverpool.
Our only chance at Wigan was made by Whelan with asuperb crossfield ball undortunately to Cresswell who totally ballsed it up. One chance against Wigan.
We narrowly lost to Everton when again we competed.
I have watched Stoke for 58 years I dont need to see us win but I do expect to see us play. Football is not played by robots. Effort and Commitment can and does get the better of skill sometimes.
If as it seems we had already accepted defeat before the team got on the bus in the Potteries why not play Whelan and Kitson and see whether we could get some rapport and understanding between them. We knew at the best we awere only going to get half a game out of Fuller against the Baggies.
Please also explain the master tactic that brought Cresswell on on Saturday?? My best wishes fellow supporter.
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Post by AlanHansen on Nov 17, 2008 12:37:28 GMT
To be honest I can't see much point in travelling away at the moment. OK it's nice to go and have a pint and the day out, and it's great to be back visiting grounds like Old Trafford but lets be honest the football is pretty dreadful. I fully appreciate that we have got a tough job on our hands especially when playing the top four sides, but the week before away at Wigan it was no different either.
I have been to 4 away games this season (Bolton, Liverpool, Wigan and Man U) and I can't remember even a handful of shots in anger and on target over the four games.
There has got to be room in our side for at least one or two of either Soares, Wheelan, Tonge and Lenny when fit. I can't make to next two aways as I'm away and too be honest ill be glad of the rest.
Roll on the home game against West Brom.
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Post by rabbigan on Nov 17, 2008 12:49:33 GMT
Strkiller and Craig Walley thank you as you have both summed up my feelings exacly without the need for all my waffle.
If anyone can throw light on whether Cresswell is TP,s love child I would be grateful
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Post by serpico on Nov 17, 2008 12:50:37 GMT
I have to agree with a lot of what the original Poster has to say, I would much rather have seen us put out a more attacking side and had a go and lost 5-0 than to put out a defensive side and invite them to rape us, it amounted to little more than a practice match of attack Vs Defense, I'm not sure you can be to hard on TP though, because it did work, however luckily, at Anfield , so the temptation to park the bus was probably to much to turn down, but then again I'm not hopeful that TP has learned his lesson, I fear we will continue to do this away from home. As I said in another thread, I'm really not bothered about the score line, but it was very disappointing to see the manner in which we were beaten, we should treat these away games at top 4 teams as 'nothing to lose' matches and have a bloody go at them, instead of rolling over even before a ball has been kicked, the Cresswell substitution really did begger belief, where the hell is Soares ?
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Post by Deleted on Nov 17, 2008 12:56:09 GMT
Memo to all:
Just because you can win games on Football Manager doesn’t mean you know what works, tactically, in the real world.
Pulis sent out the team as he saw fit to get a result…….he got it wrong. He could have tried a million different starting 11’s and a million different tactics and it wouldn’t have made a difference on the day because of the way United played.
He could have gone more attacking and we’d have lost 9-0 but I don’t know what that would have achieved.
Move on.
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Post by sheikhmomo on Nov 17, 2008 13:02:34 GMT
Memo to all: Just because you can win games on Football Manager doesn’t mean you know what works, tactically, in the real world. Pulis sent out the team as he saw fit to get a result…….he got it wrong. He could have tried a million different starting 11’s and a million different tactics and it wouldn’t have made a difference on the day because of the way United played. He could have gone more attacking and we’d have lost 9-0 but I don’t know what that would have achieved. Move on. I won the European Cup with Rotherham on a football management game on the Spectrum 48K when I was 12. Pulis want's his arse kicking.
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Post by leicspotter on Nov 17, 2008 13:02:48 GMT
Too much OTT reaction for me.
The truth in this league is that if you don't take your chances you will be punished...and at the moment we don't take, what few, chance we get.
First half...bad goal to lose after just 3 minutes, but we had at least 3 'opportunities' before they got their second. The first throw in caused panic, Fuller was in a good position and mis controlled, and Olly shot hopelessy high and wide from about 20 yards. I don't think we were ever going to win, but a goal in the first half might have given the players the belief that they could scrap out a draw.
One thing I will agree with...and did on Saturday..is that Cressy is not good enough at this level...some of the others are 'doubtful' but, sadly, in Cressy's case it is a certainty...he just aint good enough. I reckon he paid TP just so that he can say he played at Old Trafford, what other reason could there be?
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Post by Deleted on Nov 17, 2008 13:05:10 GMT
Sheikh ;D
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Post by serpico on Nov 17, 2008 13:05:26 GMT
Memo to all: Just because you can win games on Football Manager doesn’t mean you know what works, tactically, in the real world. Pulis sent out the team as he saw fit to get a result…….he got it wrong. He could have tried a million different starting 11’s and a million different tactics and it wouldn’t have made a difference on the day because of the way United played. He could have gone more attacking and we’d have lost 9-0 but I don’t know what that would have achieved. Move on. You don't seem to have much faith in our team WD, we did beat Arsenal remember, and they beat United a week later, I don't think by going more attacking we would have lost by more, as the old saying goes, attack is sometimes the best form of defense. I know we're all saying this in hindsight, but as rabbigan says, people paid a lot of money to go on saturday, the least they deserved was for TP to put a side out with a chance of actually getting into the oppositions half, it was pretty damn woeful. p.s I don't have football manager
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Post by Deleted on Nov 17, 2008 13:09:50 GMT
Serpico, it would appear I have MORE faith in our team than most on here.
Yes we beat Arsenal who in turn beat United but that is a very weak argument. Firstly, we were at home against Arsenal which makes a huge difference, don’t underestimate the difference that will make this season.
Secondly, we were playing an Arsenal team with absolutely no backbone whatsoever. They’ve already dropped points against us, Fulham, Sunderland and Hull…..plus they got beaten at home this weekend. I’m not saying they’re a sh*t team, they are obviously very talented and a fine team on their day but United are a different class to them this season.
I understand the argument that the fans deserved more but it’s difficult to play against them when they’re in that form, that’s the bottom line.
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Post by carverdoone on Nov 17, 2008 13:22:43 GMT
After 58 years watching Stoke play generally uninspired football Saturday was a new low point. Our team was prepared and sent to Old Trafford with losing as the only scenario. They were not sent to attempt to win and it is shameful. I assume that on this board most of the subscribers will at some time have played the game themseleves and if they played long enough will also know that if you play any game with sufficient commitment and effort even against teams who on paper are able to beat you then sometimes you can get a surprise result. Conversely if yopu approach games with your mind filled with inevitable loss as the scenario then invariably you lose and that is what happened to us on Saturday. Losing 5 nil is not the point. Losing 1 nil and playing the game with no intention to to try win is just as bad in my book. Nobody will convince me that the Pulis philosophy is good for our team in the long run. To play 4 midfielders Diao, Faye,Delap and Olofinjana who are identical type of players (midfield grafters) defies understanding when to stand any chance in such a match you must have one player who can pass , who can create, who can hit a good free kick, take a good corner, can take some pressure off the defence is essential. To then exacerbate the situation by replacing Olofinjana with Cresswell who brings nothing absoloutely nothing to the team is incredible and so stupid and addled in thinking it defies explanation. We had on the bench Whelan who should certainly have started who has all of the above attributes and in addtion he has played as wide midfielder for Wednesday and successfully. Having been forced to make a change this should have been the solution. Also we had Tonge who has played all of his career at Sheffield United as wide midfielder apart from about 6 months. He also has a quality pass in him and good delivery. He was bought as wide midfielder for £2 million because he was "better than what we had". Tom Soares was not on the bench and why not??In what department of the game is Cresswell a better player than Soares? We will not survive without getting a win or two away from home that is for sure. Good results away from home are massive confidence boosters and negativity in play breeds negativity throughout the team. For my group of 3 on Saturday I payed £150 for tickets plus travelling plus snacks not much change out of £250. For this I should at the least expect a performance from my team. Alternatively like the pricing structure grading for home fixtures we need one for away games so the ones where the manager has decided before the game we are setting out our stall to lose we should be told. The team does not need support if we are not trying to win. The postmatch interview with Nigel Johnsons was unreal. Apparently if they had not got the second just before half time we would have been in with a chance of winning. To have managed that we would have needed more than Delaps throws. We needed some bugger able to shoor from 80 yards out where we were parked perpetually. That interview also started the "bigging up of Derby". They were in the premiership last year (they were shite last year) They have some excellent players (name them please) I had given up hope of seeing Stoke in the Premiership again and for this I am grateful to Peter Coates and lesser extent Pulis but I dont want to survive at all costs and if waving the white flag before kick off is necessary then I prefer life in the Championship. AS for Kitson we have to have a passer like Whelan in the team and then you will see him score. In the system of bash it somewhere near Mama and see what happens or try and get a throw in he aint going to be the man. Get somebody passing and crossing he is a good finisher. I am not sure how you spend 5.5 million on a player and do not understand how he has to be played for best reuslts. Why post self-indulgent bilge like this? We got hammered and we are all really pissed-off about it, we don't need to read this twaddle on top. We got hammered by the best team in Britain, Europe and probably the World. What did you expect when we won promotion? That is as good as we are at the moment. Hopefully we can stay up and improve again. Everytime we lose the board is filled with the same suicidal drama queen nonsense. WE ARE GOING TO GET BEATEN QUITE A LOT, ESPECIALLY AWAY FROM HOME. WE ARE GOING TO LOOK TOTALLY OUT OF OUR DEPTH EVERY NOW AND THEN. There, have you got it? (Sorry for shouting). We are out of the relegation places and have two home games to come against beatable opponents. We are doing better than I dared to dream at the start of the season. A few weeks we beat Arsenal and everyone was on cloud nine.
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Post by eriksson74 on Nov 17, 2008 13:25:29 GMT
To get a result its probably best not to set up to allow a side time and possession, given the attaking threat they carry.
As I have said elsewhere to give them 70% posession was suicidal, to then allow them all the time and space in the world to knock it around in, then double, whammy.
Forget the fact we played the Shit, we would have got nothing regardless of who we played.
The sole reliance on conceeding possesion and reliance on the inability of the opposition to not hit a "cows house with a banjo" is simply a plan that doesn't work. You don't need to have played championship manager to see that.
If we are to persist with this way of playing then the least, we need to change is the tempo we close players down. It is no use continuing like we are as we will get nothing
The basic concept is, if the opposition haven't got the ball or time on the ball, then it's a dammed site harder to score than if you keep giving them the ball and allowing them time to pick a pass and move!
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Post by kkkkken on Nov 17, 2008 13:29:42 GMT
After 58 years watching Stoke play generally uninspired football Saturday was a new low point. Our team was prepared and sent to Old Trafford with losing as the only scenario. They were not sent to attempt to win and it is shameful. I assume that on this board most of the subscribers will at some time have played the game themseleves and if they played long enough will also know that if you play any game with sufficient commitment and effort even against teams who on paper are able to beat you then sometimes you can get a surprise result. Conversely if yopu approach games with your mind filled with inevitable loss as the scenario then invariably you lose and that is what happened to us on Saturday. Losing 5 nil is not the point. Losing 1 nil and playing the game with no intention to to try win is just as bad in my book. Nobody will convince me that the Pulis philosophy is good for our team in the long run. To play 4 midfielders Diao, Faye,Delap and Olofinjana who are identical type of players (midfield grafters) defies understanding when to stand any chance in such a match you must have one player who can pass , who can create, who can hit a good free kick, take a good corner, can take some pressure off the defence is essential. To then exacerbate the situation by replacing Olofinjana with Cresswell who brings nothing absoloutely nothing to the team is incredible and so stupid and addled in thinking it defies explanation. We had on the bench Whelan who should certainly have started who has all of the above attributes and in addtion he has played as wide midfielder for Wednesday and successfully. Having been forced to make a change this should have been the solution. Also we had Tonge who has played all of his career at Sheffield United as wide midfielder apart from about 6 months. He also has a quality pass in him and good delivery. He was bought as wide midfielder for £2 million because he was "better than what we had". Tom Soares was not on the bench and why not??In what department of the game is Cresswell a better player than Soares? We will not survive without getting a win or two away from home that is for sure. Good results away from home are massive confidence boosters and negativity in play breeds negativity throughout the team. For my group of 3 on Saturday I payed £150 for tickets plus travelling plus snacks not much change out of £250. For this I should at the least expect a performance from my team. Alternatively like the pricing structure grading for home fixtures we need one for away games so the ones where the manager has decided before the game we are setting out our stall to lose we should be told. The team does not need support if we are not trying to win. The postmatch interview with Nigel Johnsons was unreal. Apparently if they had not got the second just before half time we would have been in with a chance of winning. To have managed that we would have needed more than Delaps throws. We needed some bugger able to shoor from 80 yards out where we were parked perpetually. That interview also started the "bigging up of Derby". They were in the premiership last year (they were shite last year) They have some excellent players (name them please) I had given up hope of seeing Stoke in the Premiership again and for this I am grateful to Peter Coates and lesser extent Pulis but I dont want to survive at all costs and if waving the white flag before kick off is necessary then I prefer life in the Championship. AS for Kitson we have to have a passer like Whelan in the team and then you will see him score. In the system of bash it somewhere near Mama and see what happens or try and get a throw in he aint going to be the man. Get somebody passing and crossing he is a good finisher. I am not sure how you spend 5.5 million on a player and do not understand how he has to be played for best reuslts. 0800 Samaritans
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