I pity the fans of the "Big 4"

[daverichards]

Because they will NEVER experience the whole range of emotions that football can provide . To them its a fucking disaster if they finish 4th out of the "Big 4" , but thats not a real disaster .

To feel the ultimate high, you have to have hit the ultimate low .

[JoeinOz]

Daft thing to say Dave. What if you're a Manc or Scouser born and bred and support Liverpool or Man Yoo. They feel the same range of emotion as we do. Proper born and bred Chelsea fans have felt the full range of emotions. They were average until a few years ago.

[daverichards]

nah they only think they have, 23 years in the wilderness Joe , look at all that Bull about how hard done by Newcastle United fans are because their team has only got 2 a few FA cup finals , played in europe half a dozen or so seasons etc etc etc

[JoeinOz]

You're talking inverted snobbery elitist bollox Dave. If you're a 50 year old man yoo fan from Manchester for example, they were pretty much a fair to middling team for many years while one of their most hated rivals won the title every year. In 1992 they blew the title to Leeds one of their most hated rivals. That has to hurt.

Remember the ones from Manchester detest the gloryhunters as much as we do.

[daverichards]

Its gonna hurt, but its not like seeing your team in the 3rd tier of english football, getting spanked at some lower league shit hole

[Lakeland Potter]

What is the "ultimate low"? I doubt if we have experienced it. Is it merely relegation to the Blue Square Premier - or does it have to be total liquidation of the club and the sale of its ground to the local Cats and Dogs Home?

[JoeinOz]

but its not like seeing your team in the 3rd tier of english football

I bet it is actually Dave. If it had gone wrong for us against Leicester there would be fans of Darlington saying they dodn't think we've suffered. Relegation is one of noggers sickeners. Man yoo and Chelsea have both experienced that trauma.

[trebor63]

Stoke sized teams are brilliant to support imo. Lets face it we could be playing in the bottom league and for a while in the Little and Ball eras it looked like we would.

We are big enough to cut it at the top level too and with the incredible elevation that TP and PC have given us its not completely ludicrous to dream of a top half finish within a season or two! And then who knows......

Its also possible we could get relegated this year and not return

I actually feel sorry for the 'big 4' too they are effectively playing in a league of four and relegation for them is finishing fifth! But the one bad, very bad thing about the prem is when I look at teams like Boro Pompey Bolton Sunderland all similar types of clubs to Stoke but the passion in their fans appears to have died. Lets not kid ourselves it will die here too in time if we get used to mid table nothingness.

The main trouble with the prem is the complete lack of competition
for the real big prizes it wasn't so long ago Swansea finished second and Norwich Ipswich and even Wimbledon were genuine contenders. I fear them days are buried under a huge mound of £s which ensure the gap gets bigger and bigger by the day.

The Prem money should be passed down throughout all the pro leagues and the gap between the haves and have nots should be able to be bridged with a great manager and a feww good buys. Hopefully then the 'buzz' would return to ALL clubs and not just the recently promoted boys and the occasional big game

[daverichards]

Nov 14, 2008 22:13:23 GMT Lakeland Potter said:

What is the "ultimate low"?

Depends on what era of stokie you are ?

For me :

Sitting in the pissing rain watching us lose 3-1 on an open scaffold seating malarky @ gillingham is pretty high on the list

Losing 6-1 @ wigan despite that being a radio listen

watching us lose 5-1 at the Manor ground

losing 7-1 to brum
8-0 to Liverpool
Relegation in 98
Lou leaving (1st time)
Losing to the vale at any time

[JoeinOz]

The 0-7 to Birmingham and the 1-4s to Burnleyand Bristol Rovers stick out to me as moments of crapness.

[trebor63]

That vile game at Gillingham in the pouring rain and the stewards gave us one square of kitchen paper to dry our seats with!!!!!!! had me questioning my sanity! A nothing game, pissing down with rain, miles from home, expensive and I don't think I actually cared if we won or lost!

[jimisastokie]

and its nice to know you going mental with the locals

not foreighners..

[stokemark]

Joe

To be fair ManUre only 'suffered' one season out of the top flight 30 years ago - Not exactly a hardship !

I agree with Trebor in that Stoke are a great 'size' - Big enough to spend 70 years in the top flight - vulnerable enough to play out what, 7 of the last 5 years in the 3rd tier of English football.

Lowest point for me was losing 3-0 (may have been 3-1) at Cambridge, season Ball was sacked and Paddon took over - We finshed around 16th in the 3rd tier.

Being at games like that make what we are doing now feel SO special - Christ, I partied for a week when when got promoted at Cardiff as I thought we'd never get out of that division !

[JoeinOz]

It wasn't technically Man Citeh who sent them down but at that moment seing Denis Laws backheel must have been a sickener! ;D

[surreystokie]

Dave, I agree with you, wholeheartedly. Indeed it was proved, when I travelled to the Arsenal match recently, driven from London by an Arsenal friend, with another Gooner alongside.

I had no idea that the latter was a reporter, until I read his piece, on the Monday. He commented (as an Arsenal supporter) on his envy at my unalloyed joy, an obvious enjoyment of what was happening at my erstwhile deprived club and the anticipation of the rest of the season, whatever happens. He compared the contrast with their gloom, after his team's poor show and the club's failure to win a trophy for so long. (3 yrs!!!)

It's like me, really, when confronted with a mouth-watering selection of chocs, all now available to me. I often reflect that it wasn't like that when I was a youngster, in times of food rationing, when a bar of choc was a rare luxury, to be savoured, in wonderment.

How can the supporters of teams who have won everything and often, ever feel as we do, right now? I suppose blase is an appropriate word......

[Olgrligm]

I think Luton are suffering the ultimate low right now.

[daverichards]

Nov 14, 2008 23:17:26 GMT Olgrligm said:

I think Luton are suffering the ultimate low right now.

yep, them, and the likes of Oxford , the only team to have won a major trophy and ended up in Non League football

[JoeinOz]

How can the supporters of teams who have won everything and often, ever feel as we do, right now? I suppose blase is an appropriate word......

In that respect fans are like players and managers and how you feel depends on the individual person. I mean, one reason Alex Ferguson is so successful is because each time they win a trophy it inspires him to want to win it again and that passes through to his players. George Best said when they won the European cup he wanted it to be the first of many but realised immediately many of his colleagues sat back and didn't share his determination. Fans are the same. some would get blase about it and some would love it. I'd never EVER get casual about Stoke being involved in big occasions. But some would.

[10 Pint Potter]

Nov 14, 2008 22:03:48 GMT @daverichards said:

nah they only think they have, 23 years in the wilderness Joe , look at all that Bull about how hard done by Newcastle United fans are because their team has only got 2 a few FA cup finals , played in europe half a dozen or so seasons etc etc etc

didn't united go nearly 30 years without a league, and im sure they spend time in the "old second division" in that time

right about chelsea, they were languising until around the turn of the millenium

[th05]

I agree, pity them.

[skip]

I'd rather not have experienced us losing away at Tamworth in the pissing rain. I'd rather not have watched lose 8 nil at home to Liverpool. How on Earth this makes supporting Stoke a more pleasurable or noble waste of time than following a team as big as Man Utd or Liverpool is quite frankly, stupid. Pleasure and pain is all relative. Newcastle are huge compared to us and they've won the square root of fuck all. How can that not be painful for them? Admittedly, fans of the clubs that tend to win most competitions being blase about a 5 nil thumping of a newly promoted side is arrogance and lethargy of the highest order, but that's a different issue.

[fromafar07]

kind of agree, pretty daft thingto say. if i recall Man U were pretty crappy years back. And lets face it, we hate the "big 4" for one reason and one reason only.they always win !!
if only people hated Stoke for that same reason !!

[growler]

Surely it is the same for true supporters whether you are scrapping to win a European Cup or fighting relegation to the Conference?

[history]

Nov 14, 2008 22:03:48 GMT @daverichards said:

nah they only think they have, 23 years in the wilderness Joe , look at all that Bull about how hard done by Newcastle United fans are because their team has only got 2 a few FA cup finals , played in europe half a dozen or so seasons etc etc etc

That's fucking bollocks they were only pulling around 19 thousand in 1991 Newcastle fans being loyal is absoloute myth.

[argentina]

So lets get this straight, the basic aim in football is to win as many matches as you can, score as many goals as you can, get as many points as you can in order to win the big prize at the end of the road. Four of us are quite decent at achieving the above, but you feel sorry for us because we never get to experience the pain of being spanked by a superior team or relegated. Well fuck me, thanks for the concern mate but I can assure you we're not really losing any sleep over it.

I feel sorry for the smaller clubs who will never be able to experience a big European night when the likes of Juventus, Barcelona, Milan and Madrid come to town. Never be able to play a team from another country apart from a shite pre-season friendly with some little known Irish club. Never be able to go on the piss to Copenhagen, Paris, Barcelona, Lisbon, Kiev, Rome, Istanbul, Moscow, Munich, Lille, Rio, Amsterdam but to name a few to watch their beloved team.

Never experience the euphoria when Ole poked the ball into the net in stoppage time in Barcelona to seal the treble, or when VDS saved the penalty 50 years after our brave lads perished in Munich, the comeback in Turin when we were losing 2-0 against Juventus in the semi final, the heartbreak of Leverkusen in 2002 or Dortmund in 97, putting 7 past the might of Roma, beating Barca in the Cup Winners Cup in 1991.

We've got the next round of the Champions League to look forward to, and we're off to Yokohama next month for the Club World Championships. Being a United fan is fucking brilliant.

Sympathy? Thanks but I think we'll manage.

[serpico]

Nov 16, 2008 0:33:00 GMT argentina said:

So lets get this straight, the basic aim in football is to win as many matches as you can, score as many goals as you can, get as many points as you can in order to win the big prize at the end of the road. Four of us are quite decent at achieving the above, but you feel sorry for us because we never get to experience the pain of being spanked by a superior team or relegated. Well fuck me, thanks for the concern mate but I can assure you we're not really losing any sleep over it.

I feel sorry for the smaller clubs who will never be able to experience a big European night when the likes of Juventus, Barcelona, Milan and Madrid come to town. Never be able to play a team from another country apart from a shite pre-season friendly with some little known Irish club. Never be able to go on the piss to Copenhagen, Paris, Barcelona, Lisbon, Kiev, Rome, Istanbul, Moscow, Munich, Lille, Rio, Amsterdam but to name a few to watch their beloved team.

Never experience the euphoria when Ole poked the ball into the net in stoppage time in Barcelona to seal the treble, or when VDS saved the penalty 50 years after our brave lads perished in Munich, the comeback in Turin when we were losing 2-0 against Juventus in the semi final, the heartbreak of Leverkusen in 2002 or Dortmund in 97, putting 7 past the might of Roma, beating Barca in the Cup Winners Cup in 1991.

We've got the next round of the Champions League to look forward to, and we're off to Yokohama next month for the Club World Championships. Being a United fan is fucking brilliant.

Sympathy? Thanks but I think we'll manage.

These bastards never miss a chance to show off do they ? do you scour message boards so you can give people a history lesson on how so utterly awesome you are ? ... this is exactly why utd fans are hated, constantly bragging in the most unimaginably patronizing fashion possible, just get lost go worship that smarmy twat who doesn't even want to play for you.

[history]

Nov 16, 2008 0:47:47 GMT serpico said:

Nov 16, 2008 0:33:00 GMT argentina said:

So lets get this straight, the basic aim in football is to win as many matches as you can, score as many goals as you can, get as many points as you can in order to win the big prize at the end of the road. Four of us are quite decent at achieving the above, but you feel sorry for us because we never get to experience the pain of being spanked by a superior team or relegated. Well fuck me, thanks for the concern mate but I can assure you we're not really losing any sleep over it.

I feel sorry for the smaller clubs who will never be able to experience a big European night when the likes of Juventus, Barcelona, Milan and Madrid come to town. Never be able to play a team from another country apart from a shite pre-season friendly with some little known Irish club. Never be able to go on the piss to Copenhagen, Paris, Barcelona, Lisbon, Kiev, Rome, Istanbul, Moscow, Munich, Lille, Rio, Amsterdam but to name a few to watch their beloved team.

Never experience the euphoria when Ole poked the ball into the net in stoppage time in Barcelona to seal the treble, or when VDS saved the penalty 50 years after our brave lads perished in Munich, the comeback in Turin when we were losing 2-0 against Juventus in the semi final, the heartbreak of Leverkusen in 2002 or Dortmund in 97, putting 7 past the might of Roma, beating Barca in the Cup Winners Cup in 1991.

We've got the next round of the Champions League to look forward to, and we're off to Yokohama next month for the Club World Championships. Being a United fan is fucking brilliant.

Sympathy? Thanks but I think we'll manage.

These bastards never miss a chance to show off do they ? do you scour message boards so you can give people a history lesson on how so utterly awesome you are ? ... this is exactly why utd fans are hated, constantly bragging in the most unimaginably patronizing fashion possible, just get lost go worship that smarmy twat who doesn't even want to play for you.

Wasnt bragging simply putting what you were saying but the otherway round. You sound bitter as fuck mate to be fair.

I like to think of spurs as united of the south

[daverichards]

argentina: Your lack of footballing knowledge is showing, Stoke have played in europe . In fact Stoke City are one of the few teams to be unbeaten at home in european competitions .

As for going on the piss in the places you mention. I give you Southend, Blackpool, Brighton and Grimsby

Your heatbreaks here and there are just the same cup heartbreaks any team suffers in a cup run (well its not really a cup any more is it) , and they can not in any way be compared with relegation heartbreak .

The high you get from an unexpected win, can not be replicated by fans of clubs that are expected to win everything .

I don't "only hate man united" , nah I hate all 91 other clubs

[trebor63]

Oh dear oh dear I REALLY do feel for Argentina now cos frankly he's either on a wind up or his ignorance is simply mind blowing.

Firstly argentina' I'm sure you're not Argentinian but hey they won the world cup so in a way so did you, welll done.

You <ahem> 'support' ManUre again I wouldn't be surprised if you were based elsewhere (maybe you are Argentian after all) but who cares cos 'your' team are successful and if they aren't £40 a nice blue Chelsea shirt and 'bingo' you're successful again, well done again.

On school sports day if your kids running do you want him/her to win or would you prefer the better runner to win? I'm guessing you'll be rooting for the quick guy you've never seen before because yet again you'll be following the winner, it must mean sooooooo much to you, well done again.

If you support the shit as you currently do then you probably expect to win the league every couple of years and Europe every decade and the FA cup probably is far too small for you to worry about. That isn't success thats the norm.

If you followed your local team (lets say Exeter) you'd soon realise that getting promotion is FAR more exciting for them and it'd give you a far FAR bigger high than what clapping along to piped music at Old Trafford does.

Football is horses for courses you say football is all about winning stuff, it isn't and never has been! Winning is relative to the position you are in and the realistic aims you could achieve. An equaliser for your local team against Torquay would be every bit as good and exciting as an equaliser for your current team against Arsenal or Liverpool (you'll have to take my word for that cos I've just realised they didn't do it against either Liverpool or Arsenal)

The lower teams have got more above them and so the dreams are bigger the highs are higher and the lows are lower. All in all you won't understand what I'm saying cos you're one of the moronic sheep that the rest of us pity so much. The sad thing you actually think we're jealous. Think again! GGGGGGGOOOOOOOOOOAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRNNNNNNSTOKE

[WurstBoy]

replace the words pity and hate with envy and most of you will get close to the real truth.

of course we aspire to be in the big 4 just as we aspire to play Real or Barca.

pretending otherwise is akin only to self-delusion.

stop pretending you hate or pity xxx FC and accept that you wish your team could be as good as them.

Freud would have had a field day with you lot.