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Post by mickstupp on Sept 19, 2024 9:10:50 GMT
I dont agree with the decision taken this week but sone of the shit getting thrown at JW is way over the top IMO As Ive said on another thread theres 2 DOFs that schu clearly coukdnt work with And rumblings of a row with the DoF at Plymouth before he left. |
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Post by Gary Hackett on Sept 19, 2024 9:16:30 GMT
I dont agree with the decision taken this week but sone of the shit getting thrown at JW is way over the top IMO As Ive said on another thread theres 2 DOFs that schu clearly coukdnt work with And rumblings of a row with the DoF at Plymouth before he left. He isn't a yes man which is fair enough but he needs to make sure his next job is as manager not head coach otherwise it'll happen again. |
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Post by stokiejoe on Sept 19, 2024 9:19:40 GMT
My understanding is that there are 10 matches up to 9th November then another annoying international break. By the we should have a good idea of how things are going following the change so its wait and see.
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Post by apb1 on Sept 19, 2024 9:24:48 GMT
My understanding is that there are 10 matches up to 9th November then another annoying international break. By the we should have a good idea of how things are going following the change so its wait and see. One in October too. |
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Post by Stretfordpotterer on Sept 19, 2024 9:25:15 GMT
We can all see you have a hatred for JW but what if it ends up where he’s done the right thing for the club going forward. How do you know it wasn’t shumacher who didn’t like Walters and make things difficult between them both. Just to add I don’t know either way Aye, we obviously don't know. I'm just looking at time lines and how events unfolded and where the power lies. If its a genius move and we succeed I'm happy of course and as I've said I'll begin to forget what I personally think was an engineered move by Walters. Until I hear a full account to the contrary it is what I'll be thinking. I might be being unfair but I guess that's how bias etc works. So in a way I'm kind of doing exactly what I'm accusing Walters of. We're all hypocrites at some point 😆 There’s a big difference between engineered and planned. Do I think Walters planned to ditch Schumacher asap, probably yes. Do I think he deliberately made things harder for him, no. I don’t think he liked what he saw on the training pitch and in the dressing room the minute he walked through the door. Ultimately I think it’s the nature of the bad performances that have done for Schuey. If Walters was looking for an excuse to pull the trigger the Watford and Oxford debacles are plenty of ammo. |
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Post by stokiejoe on Sept 19, 2024 9:25:57 GMT
My understanding is that there are 10 matches up to 9th November then another annoying international break. By the we should have a good idea of how things are going following the change so its wait and see. One in October too. Missed that thanks, 4 games! so disruptive! Then a number of 2 game weeks! |
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Post by nottsover60 on Sept 19, 2024 9:34:17 GMT
This is a serious set back for us. Would you care to explain why? |
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Post by mickeythemaestro on Sept 19, 2024 9:34:34 GMT
Aye, we obviously don't know. I'm just looking at time lines and how events unfolded and where the power lies. If its a genius move and we succeed I'm happy of course and as I've said I'll begin to forget what I personally think was an engineered move by Walters. Until I hear a full account to the contrary it is what I'll be thinking. I might be being unfair but I guess that's how bias etc works. So in a way I'm kind of doing exactly what I'm accusing Walters of. We're all hypocrites at some point 😆 There’s a big difference between engineered and planned. Do I think Walters planned to ditch Schumacher asap, probably yes. Do I think he deliberately made things harder for him, no. I don’t think he liked what he saw on the training pitch and in the dressing room the minute he walked through the door. Ultimately I think it’s the nature of the bad performances that have done for Schuey. If Walters was looking for an excuse to pull the trigger the Watford and Oxford debacles are plenty of ammo. But if you're planning to get rid of someone asap then it ain't gonna take much to rattle your cage. So as HC you're soon realising you're treading on eggshells. It doesn't make your job very easy. Hes undrmined him in my opinion. But no I do not know this 100%. Just an opinion and using my noggin. Like when someone wants out of a relationship. Any old shit will cause a row and hey presto you're binned love. |
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Post by prestwichpotter on Sept 19, 2024 9:39:08 GMT
I think when discussing managers there should be some rules set on here as it gets very confusing (this is in no way aimed at you by the way fella). Should the crossover between season be taken into account? Should cup games be counted? I only mention this as I remember the MON debate when several posters said his decent cup stats needed to be discounted for example. Anyway, there’s a couple of ways of looking at it. One is 7 wins and 3 defeats from 10 as you say. Another is 2 dead rubber wins at the end of last season and a couple of Mickey Mouse cup wins and 3 defeats from 5 in the league to date. My two penneth without knowing what may or may not have gone on behind close doors is that the Watford and Oxford defeats (as well as the 2nd half v West Brom) would have set alarm bells ringing due to the nature of the performances…… Get your point. But as I've said to others making a similar point, 5 league games isn't a fair metric to judge anyone. But either way what's done is done. We've a new guy in now and we all should back him. And if he does well I'll slowly forget what a snake I(personally) think Walters is from my own suppositions. All said and done all us fans want is to see some decent footy on a Saturday afternoon and maybe the chance to dream about better things. It's always about context I suppose. I thought sacking MON after 5 games was hasty but the caveat to that was I was totally underwhelmed by who we replaced him with from the off. If the replacement had been different I may have thought differently. I had a similar mindset when Hughes was sacked, I had no issue with him going providing we had someone ready to hit the ground running to replace him. In hindsight we'd have been better off just keeping him, we might have been on the end of a couple of spankings but we'd probably have turned a couple of the draws we had into wins and stayed up. If there was disagreements in the background maybe it's for the best that it happened sooner rather than later? I think it takes a certain character to be able to just say "I'm head coach only" without having too much involvement in the overall recruitment strategy (you will have a say no doubt I'm sure). And Schumacher had rumoured disagreements with the DOF at Plymouth also so maybe he needs to go down the route of manager rather than head coach for his next move? And maybe the new fella is more than comfortable coaching and improving the squad he's given and happier in that structure? Ultimately unless we're involved in the inner sanctum of the corridors of the BET365 and Clayton Wood it will only ever really be supposition on our part...... |
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Post by nottsover60 on Sept 19, 2024 9:41:45 GMT
Reading the absolute miserable weapons on here is embarrassing. Crying over a manager just left who every week the same people were baffled by team selection, dull games, reactive substitutions. Christ, some have way too much time on their hands to constantly post depressing shit, or are they taking out their boring miserable lives out on here? It could see us go down. Some people fear the results of this foolhardy gamble JW has taken. I'm not a complete yes-man like yourself. And I'm pretty certain you've wanted SS gone for a goos while. Bias is a bitch What do you know about Pelach that makes you think we could be relegated? Apart from never having been head coach I haven't heard anything to suggest he will be much worse than Schumacher and I would say what I have heard from him is a passion for success above a style of play, a demand that every player fights in every game but an acceptance that there will be set backs and a keeness to work with and improve young players while leaning on the experience of old players. All platitudes I know but at least let's watch a few games before we decide. It's not his fault Schumacher got sacked. |
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Post by starkiller on Sept 19, 2024 9:46:05 GMT
Will judge him on results but speaks well and love the end of that video - “Fucking 25,000 against 11”. Must be the Warnock influence. |
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Post by questionable on Sept 19, 2024 9:46:34 GMT
I honestly don’t trust the owners to “ever” get thing right, clueless is the is the only word for them.
I mean who insanely employs Lambert
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Post by stokiejoe on Sept 19, 2024 9:47:37 GMT
Ignoring what has or hasn't gone on we need to concentrate on the new man and his style.
Having listened to his interview I'm impressed, he is enthusiastic but the biggest plus for me is how he intends to use the players he has. Too many come in and impose their style of play even if they are totally unsuited to it, think of mad Nath. He appears to be saying he will assess the players and their ability and play a style to suit them. Hopefully we are getting back to the concept that it's a team game and not about individuals or fashions.
Let's hope it works and until proven otherwise let's get behind him and the team.
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Post by nottsover60 on Sept 19, 2024 9:48:57 GMT
It doesn’t seem very well planned though, does it ? It was only a few short months ago that John Coates was telling us that SS was the main reason for supporters to have hope in the future! Decisions made in haste often are wrong ones but football is a funny game, it might work out 🤷♂️ if I was a betting man I’d say it won’t but my opinion is coloured by the fact Stoke seem absolutely incapable of appointing a competent manager/head coach. I would guess it’s been in the planning for a fair old while - the world of football is totally Machiavellian. SJW as a football man has probably watched SS at work for a while and rightly or wrongly doesn’t believe he’s the real deal to progress things significantly. With regard the change being a success only a mad man would expect it to be looking at our record ...... but we all have to be slightly mad following this lot. If you look at Brighton's model they claimed not to be worried about losing Potter as they already had a list of suitable replacements on their data base just as they have for their players. It seems reasonable to me that if we are going down a data driven recruitment process that we would have a list of coaches we feel would suit should we part company with the manager. I agree that we seem to have appointed 5 people at very short notice but am not surprised that we had a replacement already discussed. |
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Post by tommycarlsberg on Sept 19, 2024 9:51:07 GMT
There's a lot of supposition in there, don't you think? Not really. Managers come in and dont fancy players. Put their own in all the time. Leave them on the bench, don't praise them in training etc etc. Its all about opinions after all. No different in a DOF and HC relationship. Walters wanted his pick and was viewing Schumacher quite harshly. Its pretty obvious from the fact we'd won 7 of the last 10 competitive games. Agreed we weren't that impressive overall on those 10 games. But there wasn't black and white type evidence for a sacking. Awful optics and poorly managed by Walters because he was so eager to get him out the door for his new man to come in. I don't think I'm far off the mark with that. Schumacher calling him a wanker possibly knocked the last nail in his own coffin 😆 Where has Schuey called him a wanker? |
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Post by Laughing Gravy on Sept 19, 2024 9:54:46 GMT
I honestly don’t trust the owners to “ever” get thing right, clueless is the is the only word for them. I mean who insanely employs Lambert You'd insanely employ Lambert. We did. The question should be 'who sanely employs Lambert?'. |
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Post by mickeythemaestro on Sept 19, 2024 9:55:47 GMT
Not really. Managers come in and dont fancy players. Put their own in all the time. Leave them on the bench, don't praise them in training etc etc. Its all about opinions after all. No different in a DOF and HC relationship. Walters wanted his pick and was viewing Schumacher quite harshly. Its pretty obvious from the fact we'd won 7 of the last 10 competitive games. Agreed we weren't that impressive overall on those 10 games. But there wasn't black and white type evidence for a sacking. Awful optics and poorly managed by Walters because he was so eager to get him out the door for his new man to come in. I don't think I'm far off the mark with that. Schumacher calling him a wanker possibly knocked the last nail in his own coffin 😆 Where has Schuey called him a wanker? That was me supposing again 😆 I was just making a bit of a joke about them falling out. Nothing in it as far as I know. |
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Post by Goonie on Sept 19, 2024 9:59:18 GMT
I challenge anyone to watch that & not fall in love with the bloke. We're going piss this league! Something I couldn't help thinking while watching it is just what a monumental change we've seen at the club. Could you imagine if two years ago I sat here & told you that in two years time we'd be running the club with a DoF model, we'd have players from the Netherlands, France, South Korea & Japan, a shed load of exciting youngsters in the team from both Premier League loans & our own academy, and our manager would be a 36 year old bloke from Spain?! You'd have laughed me out the building as a mental case, yet here we are! My concern is it’s another MASSIVE lurch in culture and style. Hopefully in the right direction though |
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Post by tommycarlsberg on Sept 19, 2024 10:02:10 GMT
I dont agree with the decision taken this week but sone of the shit getting thrown at JW is way over the top IMO As Ive said on another thread theres 2 DOFs that schu clearly coukdnt work with That's nonsense, he was at Glastonbury with the Plymouth lot. I know this as fact because I bumped into them at the front of Dua Lipa and gave Schuey and that Neil Dewsnip a tab of acid. We partied all night and then bumped into Carol Shanahan passing biftas round at the Stone Circle. She had the munchies and was gobbling on 37 gourmet cheese toasties she'd just bought. |
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Post by stokiejoe on Sept 19, 2024 10:03:38 GMT
My concern is it’s another MASSIVE lurch in culture and style. Hopefully in the right direction though Doesn't seem much of a lurch to fit round pegs in round holes and play a style that suits the players you have. What we don't want is someone imposing a style that doesn't suit. |
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Post by Laughing Gravy on Sept 19, 2024 10:07:33 GMT
Hopefully in the right direction though Doesn't seem much of a lurch to fit round pegs in round holes and play a style that suits the players you have. What we don't want is someone imposing a style that doesn't suit. And he's quite explicitly said he won't do that. What he says and what he does remains to be seen. |
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Post by Goonie on Sept 19, 2024 10:18:26 GMT
Hopefully in the right direction though Doesn't seem much of a lurch to fit round pegs in round holes and play a style that suits the players you have. What we don't want is someone imposing a style that doesn't suit. Was thinking this the other day when Gooch played as a 10 Reminded me of Pulis and Shotton as CF and Diouff as a wingback At least Chicho has been exposed to multiple managers, personnel and formations and hopefully won't be fixated on one formation like someone like Jones did without having the players to fit it I suspect his approach will attract highly motivated and ambitious players as he seems a nurturer and heavily player focused |
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Post by pushon on Sept 19, 2024 10:19:47 GMT
It could see us go down. Some people fear the results of this foolhardy gamble JW has taken. I'm not a complete yes-man like yourself. And I'm pretty certain you've wanted SS gone for a goos while. Bias is a bitch What do you know about Pelach that makes you think we could be relegated? Apart from never having been head coach I haven't heard anything to suggest he will be much worse than Schumacher and I would say what I have heard from him is a passion for success above a style of play, a demand that every player fights in every game but an acceptance that there will be set backs and a keeness to work with and improve young players while leaning on the experience of old players. All platitudes I know but at least let's watch a few games before we decide. It's not his fault Schumacher got sacked. Maybe any criticism that he has never been Head Coach is a bit misleading, as perhaps he has always worked under a Team Managers stewardship and therefore a title of Head Coach less is important in the structure. I have no knowledge, by the way, that this has been the case prior to his Stoke appointment. |
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Post by pushon on Sept 19, 2024 10:23:56 GMT
Doesn't seem much of a lurch to fit round pegs in round holes and play a style that suits the players you have. What we don't want is someone imposing a style that doesn't suit. Was thinking this the other day when Gooch played as a 10 Reminded me of Pulis and Shotton as CF and Diouff as a wingback At least Chicho has been exposed to multiple managers, personnel and formations and hopefully won't be fixated on one formation like someone like Jones did without having the players to fit it I suspect his approach will attract highly motivated and ambitious players as he seems a nurturer and heavily player focused Don’t forget he also claimed that Shotton was the best right-winger in the league, when he played him there a couple of times. |
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Post by stokiekm on Sept 19, 2024 10:24:58 GMT
Aye, we obviously don't know. I'm just looking at time lines and how events unfolded and where the power lies. If its a genius move and we succeed I'm happy of course and as I've said I'll begin to forget what I personally think was an engineered move by Walters. Until I hear a full account to the contrary it is what I'll be thinking. I might be being unfair but I guess that's how bias etc works. So in a way I'm kind of doing exactly what I'm accusing Walters of. We're all hypocrites at some point 😆 There’s a big difference between engineered and planned. Do I think Walters planned to ditch Schumacher asap, probably yes. Do I think he deliberately made things harder for him, no. I don’t think he liked what he saw on the training pitch and in the dressing room the minute he walked through the door. Ultimately I think it’s the nature of the bad performances that have done for Schuey. If Walters was looking for an excuse to pull the trigger the Watford and Oxford debacles are plenty of ammo. Looking back at the last fans forum surely JW would have been alarmed when SS gave his thoughts on what he learnt last season. He basically admitted he didn't expect the championship to be so competitive compared to league one where for 3 or 4 games you knew you'd just rock up and win. That wouldn't give me any confidence that he was the best solution for us |
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Post by pushon on Sept 19, 2024 10:29:26 GMT
Doesn't seem much of a lurch to fit round pegs in round holes and play a style that suits the players you have. What we don't want is someone imposing a style that doesn't suit. And he's quite explicitly said he won't do that. What he says and what he does remains to be seen. You need to have the necessary shaped pegs in the first place though, that's where it usually goes wrong for Stoke. |
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Post by tommycarlsberg on Sept 19, 2024 10:58:02 GMT
Doesn't seem much of a lurch to fit round pegs in round holes and play a style that suits the players you have. What we don't want is someone imposing a style that doesn't suit. Was thinking this the other day when Gooch played as a 10 Reminded me of Pulis and Shotton as CF and Diouff as a wingback At least Chicho has been exposed to multiple managers, personnel and formations and hopefully won't be fixated on one formation like someone like Jones did without having the players to fit it I suspect his approach will attract highly motivated and ambitious players as he seems a nurturer and heavily player focused It's a wonderful, wonderful shape though Goonie |
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Post by idle on Sept 19, 2024 11:00:14 GMT
It could see us go down. Some people fear the results of this foolhardy gamble JW has taken. I'm not a complete yes-man like yourself. And I'm pretty certain you've wanted SS gone for a goos while. Bias is a bitch What do you know about Pelach that makes you think we could be relegated? Apart from never having been head coach I haven't heard anything to suggest he will be much worse than Schumacher and I would say what I have heard from him is a passion for success above a style of play, a demand that every player fights in every game but an acceptance that there will be set backs and a keeness to work with and improve young players while leaning on the experience of old players. All platitudes I know but at least let's watch a few games before we decide. It's not his fault Schumacher got sacked. I'm not saying we'll definitly go down, I'm saying he's taken a huge risk where going down is a possible outcome. SS at least had managerial/head coaching experience at this level. Which is more than you could say about Pelach, but we'll see. I hope he'll be a success, and I will be giving him a hell lot more than 5 games to prove he can do it. I'd have chosen steady progress and stability instead of gambling, but then again our owner has made all his money taking it from people who like to gamble, so in a way it's fitting. |
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Post by nott1 on Sept 19, 2024 11:05:25 GMT
I'm hoping he'll bring in one or two good spanish strikers in the next window it's fairly obvious we do not have ONE decent striker which is really holding us back, and has done for years! Pelach hasn't worked in Spanish football for years and will have no say over transfers Bet he knows plenty about Spanish football and how do you know he has no say over transfers, have you read his contract? |
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Post by CBUFAWKIPWH on Sept 19, 2024 11:14:11 GMT
Get your point. But as I've said to others making a similar point, 5 league games isn't a fair metric to judge anyone. But either way what's done is done. We've a new guy in now and we all should back him. And if he does well I'll slowly forget what a snake I(personally) think Walters is from my own suppositions. All said and done all us fans want is to see some decent footy on a Saturday afternoon and maybe the chance to dream about better things. It's always about context I suppose. I thought sacking MON after 5 games was hasty but the caveat to that was I was totally underwhelmed by who we replaced him with from the off. If the replacement had been different I may have thought differently. I had a similar mindset when Hughes was sacked, I had no issue with him going providing we had someone ready to hit the ground running to replace him. In hindsight we'd have been better off just keeping him, we might have been on the end of a couple of spankings but we'd probably have turned a couple of the draws we had into wins and stayed up. If there was disagreements in the background maybe it's for the best that it happened sooner rather than later? I think it takes a certain character to be able to just say "I'm head coach only" without having too much involvement in the overall recruitment strategy (you will have a say no doubt I'm sure). And Schumacher had rumoured disagreements with the DOF at Plymouth also so maybe he needs to go down the route of manager rather than head coach for his next move? And maybe the new fella is more than comfortable coaching and improving the squad he's given and happier in that structure? Ultimately unless we're involved in the inner sanctum of the corridors of the BET365 and Clayton Wood it will only ever really be supposition on our part...... Martin was the DoF when Schumacher was appointed and (bizarrely) he was a Neil appointment and I suspect more hands off then you would expect from a DoF so there is a good chance Schumacher had been sold the job on the basis of having more control. The club then employed a more hands on DoF who changed the job spec - doing things that way round was a recipe for disaster and to be fair on Walters and Schumacher the back to front recruitment process wasn't their fault. Pelach seems very much bought into being a Head Coach so that in itself should make for a better working relationship. We are where we are and holding any grudges against Walters and/or Pelach isn't going to help anyone. Much more healthy to get behind the new man give him the support he needs. |
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