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Post by malteser68 on Sept 20, 2024 6:43:20 GMT
On this point I am in agreement Schumacher should have been sacked the same day that last season ended I disagree on that. I think JW just didn't dare after the end of the season results picked up. He's wanted him gone since day 1. And I still think the sacking now is foolhardy, especially with who he's hired as the new HC. So JW is both a coward (to use Bayerns favorite word) and not decisive. But we'll se how it goes. SJW was decisive enough to sack SS after just 5 matches in which Stoke were absolutely rubbish (even when we won, make no mistake). This team under SS had no shape, no identity, just a bunch of individuals playing boring sideway football, unable to defend, unable to create goal scoring opportunities, simply painful to watch. SJW could see very well what the blinkered on this forum are unable to see - that the team was going nowhere under SS. And he acted now rather than wait for the new year or the end of the season. And for that chapeau to SJW |
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Post by idle on Sept 20, 2024 6:47:11 GMT
I disagree on that. I think JW just didn't dare after the end of the season results picked up. He's wanted him gone since day 1. And I still think the sacking now is foolhardy, especially with who he's hired as the new HC. So JW is both a coward (to use Bayerns favorite word) and not decisive. But we'll se how it goes. SJW was decisive enough to sack SS after just 5 matches in which Stoke were absolutely rubbish (even when we won, make no mistake). This team under SS had no shape, no identity, just a bunch of individuals playing boring sideway football, unable to defend, unable to create goal scoring opportunities, simply painful to watch. SJW could see very well what the blinkered on this forum are unable to see - that the team was going nowhere under SS. And he acted now rather than wait for the new year or the end of the season. And for that chapeau to SJW You must have watched other games than me, or you had an agenda. I highly doubt you'll expect the same from the team under NP. |
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Post by malteser68 on Sept 20, 2024 6:49:55 GMT
SJW was decisive enough to sack SS after just 5 matches in which Stoke were absolutely rubbish (even when we won, make no mistake). This team under SS had no shape, no identity, just a bunch of individuals playing boring sideway football, unable to defend, unable to create goal scoring opportunities, simply painful to watch. SJW could see very well what the blinkered on this forum are unable to see - that the team was going nowhere under SS. And he acted now rather than wait for the new year or the end of the season. And for that chapeau to SJW You must have watched other games than me, or you had an agenda. I highly doubt you'll expect the same from the team under NP. Of course I won’t expect the same !! I expect to watch proper football not like watching a bunch of kids in the schoolyard during lunch break |
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Post by idle on Sept 20, 2024 6:51:47 GMT
You must have watched other games than me, or you had an agenda. I highly doubt you'll expect the same from the team under NP. Of course I won’t expect the same !! I expect to watch proper football not like watching a bunch of kids in the schoolyard during lunch break No, I meant you'll expect us to walk the league. No downs, never two bad games within a period. If not, you have double standards. |
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Post by owdestokie2 on Sept 20, 2024 7:25:05 GMT
People forget that MON was sacked after 5 league games at the start of season. I “think” he had one less point than SS at that stage, if memory serves me right a lot of posters wanted him gone.
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Post by CBUFAWKIPWH on Sept 20, 2024 7:35:04 GMT
People forget that MON was sacked after 5 league games at the start of season. I “think” he had one less point than SS at that stage, if memory serves me right a lot of posters wanted him gone. Yes and the subsequent season was a write off. It's nuts to give a manager/HC the summer to put a team together and then ditch the work done 5 games into the season - you are immediately playing catch up trying to get the players to adapt to the new manager/HC and their playing style. The talk of this being decisive is nonsense to me - you don't make those sort of decisions on 5 games and if there were concerns over the summer the club should have acted then. I actually hope there was a bust up behind the scenes because the alternatives just stink. |
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Post by wakeypotter on Sept 20, 2024 7:52:46 GMT
People forget that MON was sacked after 5 league games at the start of season. I “think” he had one less point than SS at that stage, if memory serves me right a lot of posters wanted him gone. Yes and the subsequent season was a write off. It's nuts to give a manager/HC the summer to put a team together and then ditch the work done 5 games into the season - you are immediately playing catch up trying to get the players to adapt to the new manager/HC and their playing style. The talk of this being decisive is nonsense to me - you don't make those sort of decisions on 5 games and if there were concerns over the summer the club should have acted then. I actually hope there was a bust up behind the scenes because the alternatives just stink. There would have been even more uproar though with how we finished the season. I was excited to start the new season under ss but the performances soon made me realise it wasn’t the same as end of last season. The club probably saw that also. |
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Post by mickeythemaestro on Sept 20, 2024 7:53:03 GMT
People forget that MON was sacked after 5 league games at the start of season. I “think” he had one less point than SS at that stage, if memory serves me right a lot of posters wanted him gone. Yes and the subsequent season was a write off. It's nuts to give a manager/HC the summer to put a team together and then ditch the work done 5 games into the season - you are immediately playing catch up trying to get the players to adapt to the new manager/HC and their playing style. The talk of this being decisive is nonsense to me - you don't make those sort of decisions on 5 games and if there were concerns over the summer the club should have acted then. I actually hope there was a bust up behind the scenes because the alternatives just stink. I agree. Which is why I'm concerned about Walters now. Decisive would have been at the end of last season. But he kept us up and the pesky fans kept on singing Schumacher's barmy army. A bit of hope was building, the HC was developing a relationship with the fanbase. Mixed start to this season and bang he's gone. Doesn't really stack up to me. That said he's gone now and we have a new coach. I just hope he's treated better than Schumacher because no matter which way we look at it Schumacher has appeared to have been treated badly considering he was tasked to build a young progressive team from the carnage of the AN disaster. Onwards and upwards though. Come on you Mighty Potters ⚽️ |
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Post by beats88 on Sept 20, 2024 7:54:32 GMT
People forget that MON was sacked after 5 league games at the start of season. I “think” he had one less point than SS at that stage, if memory serves me right a lot of posters wanted him gone. Yes and the subsequent season was a write off. It's nuts to give a manager/HC the summer to put a team together and then ditch the work done 5 games into the season - you are immediately playing catch up trying to get the players to adapt to the new manager/HC and their playing style. The talk of this being decisive is nonsense to me - you don't make those sort of decisions on 5 games and if there were concerns over the summer the club should have acted then. I actually hope there was a bust up behind the scenes because the alternatives just stink. To be fair, the whole point of the new system and head coach role is that the players brought in would largely be the same whoever is the head coach. They would have been purchased to suit the style of play the club want to play. Which is also the way the head coach is expected to play them. If Schumacher wasn't using them for their intended purpose, then they have a right to get in a coach who will. Although not ideal, the new way should see more of a minimal effect on the gaffer leaving than the traditional manager role, where the squad is assembled by them. For the record I would have given Schumacher more time, but I can see the clubs thinking behind it. |
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Post by benjaminbiscuit on Sept 20, 2024 8:01:03 GMT
Yes and the subsequent season was a write off. It's nuts to give a manager/HC the summer to put a team together and then ditch the work done 5 games into the season - you are immediately playing catch up trying to get the players to adapt to the new manager/HC and their playing style. The talk of this being decisive is nonsense to me - you don't make those sort of decisions on 5 games and if there were concerns over the summer the club should have acted then. I actually hope there was a bust up behind the scenes because the alternatives just stink. To be fair, the whole point of the new system and head coach role is that the players brought in would largely be the same whoever is the head coach. They would have been purchased to suit the style of play the club want to play. Which is also the way the head coach is expected to play them. If Schumacher wasn't using them for their intended purpose, then they have a right to get in a coach who will. Although not ideal, the new way should see more of a minimal effect on the gaffer leaving than the traditional manager role, where the squad is assembled by them. For the record I would have given Schumacher more time, but I can see the clubs thinking behind it. The timing seems seem opportunistic bit anyone who thinks that walters amsdw this decision in splendinf isolation is failing to understand the intensity and scrutiy and interest the chairman takes in the club . `he may well have recommended it but Walters would not ne allowed to take thos decision in splendid isolation the aboard namely JC and Richard in Adair to to SJW must have their reasons and while I accept totally the timing seems odd and results don’t justify it when others have been given much longer with a lot worse then one thing is for sure JC and RS and indeed SJW only act in what they believe are the best interests of the club. My only criticism is that baord table still lack football experience balance and experience and check and balance on the enthusiasm of new roles and responsibilities something that boardrooms around the world have seen adds value . |
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Post by CBUFAWKIPWH on Sept 20, 2024 9:07:55 GMT
Yes and the subsequent season was a write off. It's nuts to give a manager/HC the summer to put a team together and then ditch the work done 5 games into the season - you are immediately playing catch up trying to get the players to adapt to the new manager/HC and their playing style. The talk of this being decisive is nonsense to me - you don't make those sort of decisions on 5 games and if there were concerns over the summer the club should have acted then. I actually hope there was a bust up behind the scenes because the alternatives just stink. To be fair, the whole point of the new system and head coach role is that the players brought in would largely be the same whoever is the head coach. They would have been purchased to suit the style of play the club want to play. Which is also the way the head coach is expected to play them. If Schumacher wasn't using them for their intended purpose, then they have a right to get in a coach who will. Although not ideal, the new way should see more of a minimal effect on the gaffer leaving than the traditional manager role, where the squad is assembled by them. For the record I would have given Schumacher more time, but I can see the clubs thinking behind it. Yes in theory changing the Head Coach shouldn't be as traumatic as changing the manager but even still making this decision on the back of 5 games is nuts - is Pelach going to be given the same time to prove himself? And if there were lingering doubts about last season why didnt he go at the start of the summer? In terms of expectations in the role Schumacher was sold a pup - he took the job under a hands off DoF in Martin and ended up under a hands on DoF in Walters. That always was a recipe for disaster and that is Coates' fault for appointing back to front. |
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Post by senojbor on Sept 20, 2024 9:51:17 GMT
You must have watched other games than me, or you had an agenda. I highly doubt you'll expect the same from the team under NP. Of course I won’t expect the same !! I expect to watch proper football not like watching a bunch of kids in the schoolyard during lunch break Switch channels then and watch another game? |
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Post by nottsover60 on Sept 20, 2024 10:38:27 GMT
People forget that MON was sacked after 5 league games at the start of season. I “think” he had one less point than SS at that stage, if memory serves me right a lot of posters wanted him gone. Yes and the subsequent season was a write off. It's nuts to give a manager/HC the summer to put a team together and then ditch the work done 5 games into the season - you are immediately playing catch up trying to get the players to adapt to the new manager/HC and their playing style. The talk of this being decisive is nonsense to me - you don't make those sort of decisions on 5 games and if there were concerns over the summer the club should have acted then. I actually hope there was a bust up behind the scenes because the alternatives just stink. Because of the number of young lads new to the team I was prepared to give SS longer and you are right, what is the point of a manager spending pre season coaching the squad to be sacked after five matches? However after those five matches I already felt we weren't going to trouble the playoff positions this year and the team needed another season before we could talk of promotion. On the minus side though we have three excellent young loanees who will leave next year, Tezgel's contract is up at the end of the season, if Sidibe continues to make the progress he has been doing, we will be lucky to keep him. I have a feeling that this should be a season of opportunity for us not a bedding in season. You are right also about SS having had a preseason to put together the squad he wants and by and large he got it. He also had six weeks to coach them. In all honestly do even the ones who were there all summer look coached? The best players have been a 17 year old academy player and two 19 year old loanees who spent pre season with their parent clubs. Junho looks worse, Burger looks worse, Million doesn't look as good as his end of season games, three of last years star men having had a full pre season with Schumacher. Sorry I feel sorry for SS but I can see where Walters is coming from. |
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Post by mariner87206 on Sept 20, 2024 11:03:55 GMT
Quick join in from the West Country perspective. As another thread has pointed out, quite a lot of interest and dare I say "Shuedenfreude" that the helicopter six have had their rotors clipped. My take on it is in this weeks One Game at a Time and before I get volleys it is a tongue in cheek piece but with a dose of realism. pasoti.co.uk/threads/one-game-at-a-time-difficult-second-season-karma-week-featuring-the-baggies-a-september-21st.129603/#post-2603115It is hard to see how SS has gone from one of the best young English coaches in the EFL to out on his ear in less games than it took to dispose of Mad Nath, and with the second best win ratio of a Stoke Manager this century ( excluding caretakers). On the other hand if Coates is committed to Walters and the two had fallen out then it would only end one way and the speed of his replacement indicates the decision was taken a while back.... If some of the stories prior to his departure were to be believed at Argyle then that means thats three DOF's in a row he has had issues with. Certainly the view is that all the click bait saying he will be back to replace Rooney are a mile off. Number one, that trust went when he touted himself for other jobs before your swoop.... Number 2, the lazy press narrative of Rooney is crap and doomed to fail is simply not what we have seen. He wasn't helped by the dreadful performance at HMS PTL on opening weekend, but what we are seeing is a gradual improvement week by week as his ideas and selections bed in. Our ambition is still to simply stay up again and continue to build although this weekend will be a bit of a challenge by the looks of it. Now the monkey is off his back re that stat we have a tough three games ( where ironically the better we do the higher up the league our opponents go) and then some simpler looking games ......if only it was that simple  Anyhoo, looks like we can both get back to ignoring each other after the brief flaring of a very minor rivalry. If Pelarch is Corboron lite you will be very happy.....if he is Colin lite, then maybe not so much. See you later in the season....hopefully for meaningless mid table fixture PAFCprogs Also Kudos to your fans at Home Park for predicting you're getting sacked in the morning....a week early but still ITK. Foolishly we thought you were chanting at Wazza! |
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Post by mallorcanstokie on Sept 20, 2024 11:46:21 GMT
I liked Schumacher and would have given him more time to develop the team, but, as is now obvious, him and JW did not get on, then there was always going to be internal friction, so sacking him now is probably best for the club and team long term.
At least now everyone is singing off the same hymn sheet, Vis Unita Fortiir… United strength is stronger …..
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Post by flea79 on Sept 20, 2024 12:08:21 GMT
Quick join in from the West Country perspective. As another thread has pointed out, quite a lot of interest and dare I say "Shuedenfreude" that the helicopter six have had their rotors clipped. My take on it is in this weeks One Game at a Time and before I get volleys it is a tongue in cheek piece but with a dose of realism. pasoti.co.uk/threads/one-game-at-a-time-difficult-second-season-karma-week-featuring-the-baggies-a-september-21st.129603/#post-2603115It is hard to see how SS has gone from one of the best young English coaches in the EFL to out on his ear in less games than it took to dispose of Mad Nath, and with the second best win ratio of a Stoke Manager this century ( excluding caretakers). On the other hand if Coates is committed to Walters and the two had fallen out then it would only end one way and the speed of his replacement indicates the decision was taken a while back.... If some of the stories prior to his departure were to be believed at Argyle then that means thats three DOF's in a row he has had issues with. Certainly the view is that all the click bait saying he will be back to replace Rooney are a mile off. Number one, that trust went when he touted himself for other jobs before your swoop.... Number 2, the lazy press narrative of Rooney is crap and doomed to fail is simply not what we have seen. He wasn't helped by the dreadful performance at HMS PTL on opening weekend, but what we are seeing is a gradual improvement week by week as his ideas and selections bed in. Our ambition is still to simply stay up again and continue to build although this weekend will be a bit of a challenge by the looks of it. Now the monkey is off his back re that stat we have a tough three games ( where ironically the better we do the higher up the league our opponents go) and then some simpler looking games ......if only it was that simple Anyhoo, looks like we can both get back to ignoring each other after the brief flaring of a very minor rivalry. If Pelarch is Corboron lite you will be very happy.....if he is Colin lite, then maybe not so much. See you later in the season....hopefully for meaningless mid table fixture PAFCprogs Also Kudos to your fans at Home Park for predicting you're getting sacked in the morning....a week early but still ITK. Foolishly we thought you were chanting at Wazza! 15 ginsters pasties died while i struggled through that pile of tosh... |
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Post by tommycarlsberg on Sept 20, 2024 12:13:18 GMT
People forget that MON was sacked after 5 league games at the start of season. I “think” he had one less point than SS at that stage, if memory serves me right a lot of posters wanted him gone. Yes and the subsequent season was a write off. It's nuts to give a manager/HC the summer to put a team together and then ditch the work done 5 games into the season - you are immediately playing catch up trying to get the players to adapt to the new manager/HC and their playing style. The talk of this being decisive is nonsense to me - you don't make those sort of decisions on 5 games and if there were concerns over the summer the club should have acted then. I actually hope there was a bust up behind the scenes because the alternatives just stink. I don’t buy that, end of the day it’s a game of football and it’s their job. There’s no such thing as adapting to a style, it’s not rocket science Just go out there, run faster than your opposition and do better things with the ball |
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Post by skip on Sept 20, 2024 12:18:03 GMT
Decisive would have been at the end of last season. More convenient maybe but we don't know the timeline, aims, timelines and other factors that have affected whether Schumacher stayed or the new fella was brought in. Acting after two league wins out of five (isn't it?!) with the hindsight of only one working week is pretty decisive if you ask me. |
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Post by skip on Sept 20, 2024 12:19:32 GMT
Yes and the subsequent season was a write off. It's nuts to give a manager/HC the summer to put a team together and then ditch the work done 5 games into the season - you are immediately playing catch up trying to get the players to adapt to the new manager/HC and their playing style. The talk of this being decisive is nonsense to me - you don't make those sort of decisions on 5 games and if there were concerns over the summer the club should have acted then. I actually hope there was a bust up behind the scenes because the alternatives just stink. I don’t buy that, end of the day it’s a game of football and it’s their job. There’s no such thing as adapting to a style, it’s not rocket science Just go out there, run faster than your opposition and do better things with the ball I wish it was as simple as your last point, but we know it isn't. It's like saying boxing is just a case of twatting your opposition harder. |
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Post by tommycarlsberg on Sept 20, 2024 12:24:02 GMT
I don’t buy that, end of the day it’s a game of football and it’s their job. There’s no such thing as adapting to a style, it’s not rocket science Just go out there, run faster than your opposition and do better things with the ball I wish it was as simple as your last point, but we know it isn't. It's like saying boxing is just a case of twatting your opposition harder. Physicality is massive in this league. Look at West Brom, they were bigger, faster and stronger than us all over the pitch for 90 minutes. And they’re top of the league. |
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Post by dirtygary69 on Sept 20, 2024 12:27:53 GMT
Don't really want to dwell on it too much more, what is done is done. I've heard a few bits and pieces from usually reliable sources that echo a lot of what has been said on here. Very decent bloke by all accounts, but maybe the lack of experience cost him, more so in who he hired around him and what they were doing (coaches/fitness team etc). I thought we looked good in pre-season and fitter than before, but have heard others (who matter) thought the complete opposite and that it was a bit of a disaster.
Onwards and upwards...
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Post by Mr_DaftBurger on Sept 20, 2024 13:13:23 GMT
Quick join in from the West Country perspective. As another thread has pointed out, quite a lot of interest and dare I say "Shuedenfreude" that the helicopter six have had their rotors clipped. My take on it is in this weeks One Game at a Time and before I get volleys it is a tongue in cheek piece but with a dose of realism. pasoti.co.uk/threads/one-game-at-a-time-difficult-second-season-karma-week-featuring-the-baggies-a-september-21st.129603/#post-2603115It is hard to see how SS has gone from one of the best young English coaches in the EFL to out on his ear in less games than it took to dispose of Mad Nath, and with the second best win ratio of a Stoke Manager this century ( excluding caretakers). On the other hand if Coates is committed to Walters and the two had fallen out then it would only end one way and the speed of his replacement indicates the decision was taken a while back.... If some of the stories prior to his departure were to be believed at Argyle then that means thats three DOF's in a row he has had issues with. Certainly the view is that all the click bait saying he will be back to replace Rooney are a mile off. Number one, that trust went when he touted himself for other jobs before your swoop.... Number 2, the lazy press narrative of Rooney is crap and doomed to fail is simply not what we have seen. He wasn't helped by the dreadful performance at HMS PTL on opening weekend, but what we are seeing is a gradual improvement week by week as his ideas and selections bed in. Our ambition is still to simply stay up again and continue to build although this weekend will be a bit of a challenge by the looks of it. Now the monkey is off his back re that stat we have a tough three games ( where ironically the better we do the higher up the league our opponents go) and then some simpler looking games ......if only it was that simple Anyhoo, looks like we can both get back to ignoring each other after the brief flaring of a very minor rivalry. If Pelarch is Corboron lite you will be very happy.....if he is Colin lite, then maybe not so much. See you later in the season....hopefully for meaningless mid table fixture PAFCprogs Also Kudos to your fans at Home Park for predicting you're getting sacked in the morning....a week early but still ITK. Foolishly we thought you were chanting at Wazza! "Two nil down and not playing Everton is not the place you want to be." 😁👏 |
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Post by malteser68 on Sept 20, 2024 13:26:24 GMT
Of course I won’t expect the same !! I expect to watch proper football not like watching a bunch of kids in the schoolyard during lunch break No, I meant you'll expect us to walk the league. No downs, never two bad games within a period. If not, you have double standards. As long as we play proper football I will accept even if we won’t win every match. I just don’t want to watch the absolute rubbish we’ve seen in the last ten years which drives you to the brink of suicide |
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Post by Davef on Sept 20, 2024 14:32:18 GMT
Now the dust has settled a bit and with the benefit of hindsight it would seem that the club were having serious doubts about the appointment of Schumacher quite early into his tenure.*
From the home defeat to Birmingham and the 3-0 hammering against Norwich, most of our results and performances were awful; We were battered 5-0 by Leicester, who may have won the title, but just weren't pulling off those kind of results away from home against anybody else at that time.
The Norwich game was one of Jon Walters' first home games after returning to the club and he can't have been impressed with either the performance or the sight of a deserted stadium at the final whistle.
The 3-0 defeat at Swansea left us in serious trouble and we ultimately stayed up with three excellent wins to finish the season.
Had we limped home and stayed up on the final day of the season by a point, would the club have pulled the trigger in May?
As it was, they probably felt that they couldn't sack their head coach on the back of those wins and the feel good factor we took into the summer and were willing to give him more time.
The pre-season wasn't exactly stellar though was it? We beat Chester and Cork comfortably, but needed Crewe to bring on their kiddies before we turned the game around, lost at Stockport and were hardly convincing against a Bolton team that has started the season terribly.
The first half performance against Coventry was excellent (although we were actually quite lucky not to concede a goal after 30 seconds in that game) but with the exception of the cup win at Middlesbrough we've not really come close to matching that level. The performances at Watford and Oxford were just more of last season's fare.
That's not to say they there weren't good moments under Schuey and he deserves credit for blooding the youngsters and ultimately keeping us up last season. He was a likeable and honest character and didn't carry the arrogance of Alex Neil which helped him forge a decent relationship with the fans.
Hopefully he will return to the game quickly and go on to have a good managerial career.
* Edit: Just seen Fuller Magic's post about Walters' long term admiration for Narcis Pelach.
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Post by FullerMagic on Sept 22, 2024 7:15:24 GMT
Nixon story today saying it was planned to sack him months ago
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Post by thornestein on Sept 22, 2024 7:23:23 GMT
Nixon story today saying it was planned to sack him months ago doesn’t surprise me , what did was employing someone with next to no experience 🤦♂️🤦♂️ |
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Post by Mars on Sept 22, 2024 7:49:04 GMT
(Without being able to read the story) I think that only calls into question the timing even more, and dispels the narrative that this was a decisive action by JW.
Not allowing three games at the end of the season to change your plan would be decisive. Making the change you want to make in the summer and allowing the coveted new head coach a pre-season would be decisive.
Instead we've chosen a chaotic and ill-timed change that risks losing another season under the guise of a new direction.
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Post by tommystoke123 on Sept 22, 2024 7:55:25 GMT
Nixon story today saying it was planned to sack him months ago 2 senior managers, 1 of them was Steve Cooper I’m led to believe, we were after him in the summer |
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Post by geoff321 on Sept 22, 2024 8:04:39 GMT
(Without being able to read the story) I think that only calls into question the timing even more, and dispels the narrative that this was a decisive action by JW. Not allowing three games at the end of the season to change your plan would be decisive. Making the change you want to make in the summer and allowing the coveted new head coach a pre-season would be decisive. Instead we've chosen a chaotic and ill-timed change that risks losing another season under the guise of a new direction. Spot on. If the club thought SS was not the man to take us forward they should have acted as you say and sacked him at the end of last season. Too then do it after 5 games is just crazy. |
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Post by crouchpotato1 on Sept 22, 2024 8:06:57 GMT
Why would we hire Chris Cohen as a coach in the summer if all this is true?
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